I Like The Kites

[Duke Togo]

Yuck

[Guest Bromgrev]

My vote is go for JsARCLIGHT's latest icons (I know, MW isn't a democracy, but when the dictator's away...). Maybe tone down the highlight slightly and increase the contrast on the 'new posts' icons, although I'd be happy with them as they are.

[azrael]

Agreed. JsARCLIGHT did a good job with his stuff. Although, we won't see it until it's put into place.

If the downsizing is causing problems, how about forgoing it? At a size that isn't too overwhelming or too tiny, maybe it's better to just remove the glossy look and got for simple plain. Might give way to a smaller file size as well.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'm not sure what sizes this message board can handle without causing problems. I'm no message board guru... Part of the problem is the GIF format. When I convert my larger million color originals down to indexed 256 color GIFs they lose a ton of the subtlety in their looks, they lose all those inbetween hues that give them depth and separate the glossy highlights from the background colors.

I guess this is why I don't design for the web... print is just so much easier.

I can try a different style of raised button design other than the "glassy ball"... it's just that the glassy ball look is "in" right now on the web from what I see. I just have an issue with the one-dimensional icons we have now... to me they look so plain and their colors are far too harsh for the environment of this message board. It looks like mexican stoplight candy on the left margin to me. I think that is why my color palate keeps skewing pastel, my mind is trying to match the feel of the board.

Let me try a few more different styles today when I have free time and see what I can come up with. Also if there is a larger icon size I can use or an alternate file type could someone please post the size and the file type?

[Amped]

I think that is why my color palate keeps skewing pastel, my mind is trying to match the feel of the board.

386600[/snapback]

Your design insticts are spot on! Unless someone wants to design a whole new interface for the board, I think we need to remain cognizant of the existing theme and attempt to be harmonious.

This is why I have stuck with 3D design in my day job... I look at the graphic designers seated to either side of me and I shudder when I see the hell they go thru with web and print color checks...

[JB0]

I'm not sure what sizes this message board can handle without causing problems. I'm no message board guru... Part of the problem is the GIF format. When I convert my larger million color originals down to indexed 256 color GIFs they lose a ton of the subtlety in their looks, they lose all those inbetween hues that give them depth and separate the glossy highlights from the background colors.

I guess this is why I don't design for the web... print is just so much easier. 

Can the board use PNGs?

Or are we avoiding those because MS STILL hasn't fixed IE's PNG support.

[David Hingtgen]

Js---Don't go for "pastel" by altering the tint or value, go for "grey" by altering the tone.

If you want "not so intense" colors, mix in grey, not white. That'll help match some of the blues I think on MW.

[azrael]

I'm not sure what sizes this message board can handle without causing problems. I'm no message board guru... Part of the problem is the GIF format. When I convert my larger million color originals down to indexed 256 color GIFs they lose a ton of the subtlety in their looks, they lose all those inbetween hues that give them depth and separate the glossy highlights from the background colors.

I guess this is why I don't design for the web... print is just so much easier. 

Can the board use PNGs?

Or are we avoiding those because MS STILL hasn't fixed IE's PNG support.

386642[/snapback]

It will come in IE7.......when ever that will be.

We should try to keep them as GIFs but for the moment, let's try to keep the glossing down a few notches. It might cure the detail issue.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Js---Don't go for "pastel" by altering the tint or value, go for "grey" by altering the tone.

If you want "not so intense" colors, mix in grey, not white.  That'll help match some of the blues I think on MW.

386647[/snapback]

I did some experiments with grey a few days ago and most of them turned out muddy. Once again the main problem was with the 256 color base of GIF files. With million color files you have all these wonderful middle grounds of grey that can add a lot of depth and reduce the "pastelness" of the palate... but with GIF conversion it just picks up on the base color and caps it. With white the pastel colors came out clean in conversion but with grey they looked like muted, somber tones. I guess the flux is do we want the site to be happy and pastel (read gay) or muted and somber (read depressing). Striking a balance is hard, hardest part in design... espeically with such a bright scheme going on now.

I have to run back out again but I'll be back home tonight with time to kill (wife is on duty at the VA so it's me and the cat and a color picker). I'm going to run some more experiments... I have a few other trick bag gimicks to pull out and I'll see i switching from a "glassy ball" to a "waterdrop" sort of approach might work better at lower resolutions. Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.

[kensei]

Hey Js, those new icons look friggin sweet. Good work!

[yellowlightman]

Js' new icons look great and should go really well with the board design.

[Skull-1]

Can we dump Minmei's ghost please? Just click on the skull roundel for the unread post not Minmei. She's just taking up space.

[David Hingtgen]

I personally want the kites, and nothing else. Everything else should be the board default, mainly for size reasons. (And I view at 1024x768, which should be pretty common)

Either all kites, or all skulls, just for the left-most column. Anything else makes the forum look like an icon/avatar test at Robotech.com---too much all over.

[Roy Focker]

I don't know. I find the Minmay Wraith funny now. Maybe she be reserved for pinned topics or something special. Maybe warning levels. Lets have her inspire fear and dread.

Okay eta:

Please finalize all suggestions in one handy post by Thurs. That's when I'll start changing them. If I have any questions or prefer some changes then I'll post the rest on Sat.

[JB0]

I don't know.  I find the Minmay Wraith funny now.  Maybe she be reserved for pinned topics or something special.  Maybe warning levels.  Lets have her inspire fear and dread.

Locked threads. She delivers the touch of death.

...

Of course, that'd be too in-jokey.

[Gaijin]

Yep, save the minmay for that. It takes up way too much space and makes it look really cluttered as well.

[azrael]

Agreed. Save Minmay for something else. Locked or moved threads...(she is pointing right?) The kites are fine but we should probably look at tweaking them. But otherwise...the Minmay wraith has got to go....somewhere else.

[David Hingtgen]

::completely re-written::

Ok, here's my newest kite. Rounder and a better transition to the transparency. Let me know if you think it's worth making some blue versions, etc.

::edit:: Darn, it looked so much better with my grey test background, I'll have to start working with pale blue backgrounds to make it match better. Off to tweak it more.

Edited April 3, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[Lynx7725]

OK, Here is my first new setup. This time they are all sized right and in brighter colors. First batch are the UN Spacy Kites:

NEW TOPIC

NEW TOPIC (That the user has posted in)

HOT TOPIC

HOT TOPIC (That the user has posted in)

POLL TOPIC

POLL TOPIC (That the user has posted in)

GO TO LAST NEW POST (Replaces the infamous "Minmay Wraith")

MOVED TOPIC

LOCKED TOPIC

386394[/snapback]

Ok, my two cents..

Firstly, I'm not overly bothered by the Minmay Wraith. It does throw the table sizes off a bit, but IPB is IPB; unless you mess terribly with the backend, the icons are all going to be in the same places, so I'm not terribly perturbed by the minor differences.

However, I DO support using the Minmay Wraith as a Locked Topic icon. Couldn't stand her. Sorts of makes sense.

Now, onto JsARCHLIGHT's work.. excellent and they do look good, just a couple of comments.

I'm good with using Blue for new, Red for hot and Green for polls. However, the common problem I find with IPB icons is that it's difficult to differentiate between threads that I did not post in and threads I did post in, and the current set of icons makes it difficult to see (as it's a difference in rim only -- I kinda find it easy to miss).

If I may suggest, can we have add a diagonal slash, maybe white/ grey, behind the kite to highlight threads in which the user had posted in? That should be pretty obvious.

Also, I think the "Go to Last Post" icon should be a "Beware of Blast" arrow in the appropriate direction (i.e. left to right). It seems to stand out better than the current "Rescue" arrow.

[Guest Bromgrev]

JsARCLIGHT: just another teeny-weeny point about your icons - the default for screen button highlights is top/left, and for shadows bottom/right. Yours are coming from top/right and bottom/left, respectively. Might want to change that for consistency, so it doesn't jar with the rest of the browser window.

I think the outline for 'you posted in this thread' should be clear enough if the colours are slightly brighter and the highlights reduced.

[Gaijin]

Honestly, at least to me, the new icons make the board look really cluttered and cheap.

[Amped]

Honestly, at least to me, the new icons make the board look really cluttered and cheap.

387054[/snapback]

I have to agreee with that basic assesment.

If we must add new icons, then JsARCLIGHT's are a definite improvement... minus the Minmay wraith. She just doesn't work and is completely unecessary, IMO.

But really, I think the new icons thing is just adding unecessary visual clutter to an otherwise clean and perfectly functional interface.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Power went out at my house yesterday and stayed off until this morning (bad storms here). I lost the file I was working in but I managed to recover most of it. It will be later tonight before I get a change to work on these some more, time and circomstance and working against me it seems.

Really quick here I think we should get a tally of what people actually want to see in these icons. It seems the more responses I read everyone seems to be wanting something different and getting a cohesive pacakge that everyone likes may not be possible. It might just be in our best interests for all the people who want to to make a few icon sets to make up some samples or complete sets and then we'll start a poll and have folks vote on which sets they like the most... otherwise it seems we will be making minute tweaks to these things forever trying to satisfy everyone.

I think we also need to establish a ruleset for these designs as well. Roy already said that he wants locked and moved thread icons to be very basic and understandable without a key or legend so using things like the skulls or the minmay might be confusing... no matter how cute or fitting we think they might be. At the same time we need a listing of all the different icons that we will actually need to make. I've only been guessing at which ones we will need, I'm not sure if there are even more I'm missing or not.

[EXO]

I like Js' icons. I agree with the set up that most wants... mainly kites and skulls for locked threads, and the small arrow for moved items.

If it's possible to cut back a little tad on the highlights that would be cool, if not, then I dont think its a big deal.

[Lynx7725]

FWIW, I'm good to go with what you have. The only thing I would like changed is more distinction between "You have posts in here" and "You did not post in here" -- but I think I somehow would be able to live with what is already here.

BTW, thanks for the effort!

[Duke Togo]

Honestly, at least to me, the new icons make the board look really cluttered and cheap.

387054[/snapback]

I totally agree. Another vote for the Js icon set.

[EXO]

I dont like the padlock and basic arrow... how about the Beware of Blast symbol for moved and the circle vernier for locked, if not the skulls. Js style!

[JsARCLIGHT]

I dont like the padlock and basic arrow... how about the Beware of Blast symbol for moved and the circle vernier for locked, if not the skulls. Js style!

387157[/snapback]

Would those two icons be descriptive enough to convey locked and moved without the need of a key though? I guess that is the stumbling block of this whole endeavor... will the icons represent what they need to represent adequately without the need for a key?

Edit: and also will they be intuitive enough that a newbie can pick up on what they mean quickly without us seeing a ton of "what do the red arrow threads mean" posts. I think that is the prime concern Roy has is people not knowing what the locked and moved icons are supposed to represent... all the other icons are sort of just eye candy but the pure function icons like locked and moved thread almost need to be very utilitarian. But that is only one opinion. When I get home tonight after dinner I'll start posting my new alternate icons and I'll make up some other icons as well to reflect the other suggestions.

Edited April 3, 2006 by JsARCLIGHT

[EXO]

But there IS a key... I have no idea what those skulls mean right now unless I look at the key. There's a suitcase symbol that's in the Other Anime section that I have no idea what it's for. I didn't even know that there was an unread icon until I saw that Minmay.

The Lock and moved Icons, IMO, are the least important because you see it less than any icon on the boards. As much as people complain about their topics being oved or locked, it's still a rare occurence.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'm probably overanalyzing the whole thing as usual. I would just like to see the new icons be very intuitive as well as being just a bunch of nifty colored things. Having to find and then remember a key is kind of a pain. Then again people get used to stuff... once you are forced to live with something you come to love it.

I bet if we left that minmay in place for a few years people would start complaining about us getting rid of it after a while.

[EXO]

I dont think anyone, especially noobs, will ever know what each color mean unless they look at the key first, unless it tells you right on the icon what it means.

[Fortress_Maximus]

Generally I like the icons current and the ones JsARCLIGHT created, however, I was wondering if there was a way to select a barebones MW version without all the icons and images for both computers and pdas? Whenever I try to view MW on the pda, it is a bloody nightmare. O can never post even in full view.

Off topic of the snazzy kites and miniMinmays, is there anyway to post and view a users inbox on low-fi version? I've been meaning to ask that for the longest time now. Thanks!

Edited April 3, 2006 by Fortress_Maximus

[Skull-1]

I don't know.  I find the Minmay Wraith funny now.  Maybe she be reserved for pinned topics or something special.  Maybe warning levels.  Lets have her inspire fear and dread.

Okay eta:

Please finalize all suggestions in one handy post by Thurs.  That's when I'll start changing them.    If I have any questions or prefer some changes then I'll post the rest on Sat.

386822[/snapback]

Let's use the RED/BLUE/GRAY SKULL as the link for "FIRST UNREAD POST". That allows you to eliminate a dedicated column for that feature.

This saves space and makes life easier for those of us with PDAs.

Just click on the round skull emblem and it takes you to first unread by default.

Use the little RED ARROW thingy for MOVED topic.

THAT would keep things in character but uncluttered.

Edited April 3, 2006 by Skull-1

[JsARCLIGHT]

OK here is the new generation of icons. I'm only doing red the first time through but take these saturated color examples as an indicator of how saturated the blues and greens will be. I'm also using a different style of "shininess" on them.

HOT TOPIC

HOT TOPIC (No New Posts)

HOT TOPIC (That the user has posted in)

HOT TOPIC (No New Posts, User has posted in)

I've also worked up the same four HOT TOPIC icons with the skull flight graphics. I personally think the skulls degrade too much at this low resolution and just become far too muddled to be usable, but this process is a democracy so here they are:

HOT TOPIC

HOT TOPIC (No New Posts)

HOT TOPIC (That the user has posted in)

HOT TOPIC (No New Posts, user has posted in)

I've tried EXO's idea of using the beware of blast carrot arrows for a moved topic icon but they just turn out so small and illegible that I have to keep making them bigger and at that point they just become a huge red arrow anyway... so that idea is kind of out at the moment.

Let me know about this new set and I can adjust from there.

[David Hingtgen]

I'm away from home and using a PC I don't trust much (I trust none but my own), so I don't plan to log in much this week----but I'll quick post that I like those new kites a lot better.

Though I now think the spot in the upper left looks like a clearly defined white dot, and nothing more. On the "posted in" versions it almost looks like you've made a selection in the upper-left opening.

Basically----gradiants etc are fine, nobody wants a single-shade "255/0/0" red icon, but the highlights are still too intensely white. 3/4 of the icon looks great, but then it looks like a snowflake fell on top. Make them shiny if you can, but not at the expense of obvious "whiteness" in spots.

Maybe instead of a highlight, add a shadow behind?

PS--I am well aware my comments sound nitpicky, but I always try to be constructive----and I know how much work goes into making icons-----I still can't make a basic simple kite with a smooth edge, much less a shiny one...