I Like The Kites

[Hurin]

Hey guys. While I appreciate any kind, polite mentions of Macross Nexus, and promoting the site is great, I can't say that I approve of A1 actually insulting people while doing so.

As for Macross Nexus being the site where you can go to be a-holes. . . please note that A1 was on his way to being banned on MN and has behaved himself (over there at least) ever since he was officially warned. I think he now feels that he doesn't need to be as nice here because he can hang out at MN? Perhaps a global Macross site ban is necessary?

Late Edit: Oops, that link just takes you to the run-up to warning A1. The actual "official" warning is here.

As for why Macross Nexus exists: First and foremost, MN exists for the main site where we are developing content that MW does not cover (mecha, character, and episode guides). It also strives to be an "open source" site where the community submits content (though, as I feared, few people actually follow through on doing so).

The forums at MN are secondary. And they are not predicated on stealing away MW's members. Indeed, in my initial "why" post, I addressed the very issue of "splitting the community" and other worries. Now, I tried to be diplomatic whenever I mentioned ways that we hoped to improve upon certain aspects of MW. But, I wasn't always successful and others said things that were taken personally. But, for my part in all that, I largely focused on Roy. And I just want to be clear that I don't consider Roy to be synonymous with MW. . . so any comments made about him don't necessarily reflect on MW.

And I would also like to apologize to Roy here since I know he now thinks that I don't think he ever does anything right. That could not be farther from the truth. He does a helluva lot of unappreciated work that goes unannounced. While other mods here may be doing things that we don't see, it's clear that Roy does things that are both visible and invisible. While I still stand by our goal of wanting to have a staff that is less acerbic and more friendly in tone than MW's, that doesn't mean that I think Roy is a terrible mod or a jerk at all times. It just means we want something different.

Macross Nexus is there to serve other needs than MW. True, we added a toys section, but only because Jawjaw's toy reviews and images were available. Yes, we have forums, but we have 40 members. MW has 3000+ members. If MW ever disappears, we'll be happy to assimilate its membership for those who are still looking for their Macross forum fix. But, while MW is still here (and that may be forever), we expect to remain a tiny site, doing our own thing.

As for updates or the lack thereof. . . that was where the "open source" nature of the site should really shine. In lieu of user submissions, Andy and I do plan on populating the mecha, character, and episode profiles on our own over time, please keep in mind that this is an arduous task. Creating colorful, well-worded, aesthetically pleasing profiles takes a lot of time. The VF-1 entry itself took me two days all told. Though, people working off that template (which is now available) should be able to get similar profiles done much faster. And really, that was the (overly optimistic?) goal of MN. . . to allow the Macross community to submit cool stuff! But, well, as we suspected, while initial enthusiasm runs high and everyone wants to know how to be a "site author/contributor". . . not much happens when it's time to spend a few hours writing up a profile.

Finally, regarding Graham, I want to make this very explicit. . .I thought about posting this earlier, but since so many people seem to see MN and MW as direct, hostile competitors, I thought it would seem cheezy, or disingenuous. Over in that thread on our forums, some things were said (sometimes less politely or respectfully as they should have been) about Shawn and/or the staff. I would like to state unequivocally here that nothing hostile was ever said by anyone in authority over on our forums about Graham (despite allegations and fuzzy memories to the contrary). And in fact, quite the opposite was posted on our main site's news area weeks ago.

Personally, I regret the atmosphere of competition and hostility that is evidentally taking place. I especially regret my roll in it and the harsh words I had for Roy. I initially attempted to try to apologize and mitigate the situation, but only succeeded in pissing Roy off further, and then I too got involved in fanning the hostility well beyond what was warranted or advisable.

I think the internet is big enough for two Macross sites. Especially because we're tiny, and will in all likelihood remain so. As I've said before, Macross World is a Macross institution and we don't have any real hopes of ever matching its success. And, again, while I think it is only fitting and proper that we learn from MW's experience over the last seven years, and discuss ways in which we can improve upon some of its strenghts and weaknesses. . . I apologize that I, my partner (though I'm not speaking for him), and our members haven't always been polite or properly respectful towards MW and its staff while doing so.

Best,

Hurin

Edited March 31, 2006 by Hurin

[Eternal_D]

what do the new icons stand for? not bashing or anything, but it looks kinda cluttered and less professional.

[Gaijin]

Those new icons are rather...large.

[promethuem5]

Personally, I regret the atmosphere of competition and hostility that is evidentally taking place. I especially regret my roll in it and the harsh words I had for Roy.

No worries Hurin, your site is a respectable effort and it's fun to watch it unfold and evolve, as it's obvious you're working really hard on it. It's obviosuly not your fault that any ill-will exists, I think we have A1 to thank for all of that... and yeah, hopefully he just stops posting so we can get past this whole debacle.

And yeah, I suggested in the Updates thread, the new icons are nice, maybe a littlle large, but the only actual problem is that we don't all know what they stand for yet. Give us a Key for them somewhere and they'll be great.

[JsARCLIGHT]

The key is inside the sections at the bottom. As for the little red Minmays those replaced the "go to last undread post" button.

[promethuem5]

Ooooooh, so it is. Alright, so the only reason it's so confusing is because the Hot Topic new and Old and the Poll new and old haven't been updated yet. That works.

[Mr March]

I must admit, I don't see why we need macrossnexus.

385763[/snapback]

I certainly do. In fact, we need not less, but MORE Macross websites. Should the day arrive that MacrossWorld is no more, the english speaking Macross fan community would find itself without any home.

Further, while the Macross Nexus is concentrating on aspects of Macross not covered on MacrossWorld, there is still more to the franchise that will not be covered.

A serious, in-depth technical website is needed for Macross, something that is surprisingly absent for such a mechanically dependant fictional franchise.

Also, a very detailed episode guide to Macross is a must. I'm not talking synopsis and the odd picture either, I'm talking detailed production info, trivia, and plot/story analysis for each episode (ala Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5).

There is a great need for not just another Macross website, but at least 2 or 3 more.

[Noyhauser]

Back to the original topic. I liked the kites, but I'm personally quite negative on the other changes, specifically changing the old files with the new skull and crossbones Logo. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making it more "macrossy," but I think it gets to a certain point where you cross from being functional and appropriate, and into unintuitive and trashy. I think the macross shield was okay, but having everything done in a macross theme is just too much in my opinion. the Skull and cross bones is not intuitive, especially for new people, and its pretty trashy. It makes the site look like it was done by a 14 year old fan, and doesn't impress the level of discussion that we do have on here.

Please revert it to its previous state. I think it looked fine and didn't need anything more.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Noyhauser

[Sdf-1]

Minmay is nice, but imo that is too much and too big there.

[promethuem5]

Mr March, I realize now after checking MN out a bit that you are exactly right. I was really just talking about the forum when I made that comment and hadn't really looked too in-depth, and was going merely on the sackless filth that A1 was spewing. MN is a good site, and I am in no way against it.

[Twoducks]

The kites are really nice but the other icons are just too complex. Seeing so many repeated complex images distracts the eye.

Looks like the crossbones is going to be assigned to locked threads so that should fix it (we don't see many locked threads so it won't clutter the view).

Maybe the Minmay could go for the pinned threads.

Also: Lets not listen to flamebaits that want to create childish rivalries. I really like this site and Graham and crew do a good job here. Sometimes I may not agree with what the mods do but overall things run very well here (at least in my opinion). I’ll also follow the different things MNexus has to offer the same way I check all the different sites that I like about a specific subject.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Twoducks

[promethuem5]

Actually, that sounds like a goot use for them.

[Skull-1]

Back to the original topic. I liked the kites, but I'm personally quite negative on the other changes, specifically changing the old files with the new skull and crossbones Logo. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making it more "macrossy," but I think it gets to a certain point where you cross from being functional and appropriate, and into  unintuitive and trashy. I think the macross shield was okay, but having everything done in a macross theme is just too much in my opinion. the Skull and cross bones is not intuitive, especially for new people, and its pretty trashy. It makes the site look like it was done by a 14 year old fan, and doesn't impress the level of discussion that we do have on here. 

Please revert it to its previous state. I think it looked fine and didn't need anything more.

385860[/snapback]

I liked the old format better. I knew what it meant.

I don't like this one at all (though I appreciate the effort).

And Minmay's / Minmei's Ghost scares me. That thing is annoying.

[Seven]

I for one love the functionality of the Minmay icon. I could care less about the appearance of the icon, they can make it an image of steaming pile of poo or a big Hello Kitty head and I still wouldn't care because its the use that matters to me.

[Skull-1]

I don't even know what the hell it's for.

And a UNDF "KITE" would be better than a ghostly singer... It is garish at best and far too big.

Screws up my PDA.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Skull-1

[yellowlightman]

I agree that the size/appearence of the Minmay icon kinda clashes with the rest of the forum but ultmately I just don't care enough. I do appreciate the efforts of Roy and Graham for updating the site a bit, don't listen to A1... lots of people are appreciative of what you guys are doing.

[Noyhauser]

Oh, I should say that macross world is one of the sites I visit the most in my day for my own leisure. Being a modeler, and a macross fan, its an amazing resource. Its helped me become a far better modeler, and rekindled my interest in the anime. I really appreciate what you guys are doing, and my criticism is really intended to be constructive, and not at all taken personally. I think the skull and minmay thingys aren't the best of additions, and that was all I was trying to say.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'm sure Graham and Roy appreciate constructive criticism. Perhaps with some tweaking we can get the icons less "punchy". When I get home from work tonight I can help with icon creation as well if someone can provide me with some direction.

[Mr March]

Mr March, I realize now after checking MN out a bit that you are exactly right.  I was really just talking about the forum when I made that comment and hadn't really looked too in-depth, and was going merely on the sackless filth that A1 was spewing.  MN is a good site, and I am in no way against it.

385869[/snapback]

Totally understandable given the circumstances. I too hope some more Macross websites like MN find a home online.

[azrael]

The Minmay icon doesn't fit... It's also screwing with the tables...

The folder icons is a good change. But the go-to-new-post should go back to the smaller arrow icon.

[Agent ONE]

Mr March, I realize now after checking MN out a bit that you are exactly right.  I was really just talking about the forum when I made that comment and hadn't really looked too in-depth, and was going merely on the sackless filth that A1 was spewing.  MN is a good site, and I am in no way against it.

385869[/snapback]

Why the personal attacks? I have an opinion of MW, and you have one... They were probably never on par, so simmer down.

It looks like many don't agree with me, which is fine. I have the right to say this place is sub standard.

[promethuem5]

Why the personal attacks?

Cuz you were being obnoxious. Whatever.... I'm done.

[Agent ONE]

It seems like nobody cares about the half assed nature of the leadership. Well I guess I am outvoted so I won't pound on the issue. Just remember the one who pays the bills around here doesn't care, so don't be shocked when one day MW is just gone. Untill then I will still contribute, but I plan on having my MACROSS discussion on Nexus (the site that I now have confidence in), all the other stuff I can talk about here.

[Agent ONE]

Why the personal attacks?

Cuz you were being obnoxious. Whatever.... I'm done.

385924[/snapback]

I bet you aren't... Come on, you are just frustrated because I have been absent for a month. You missed me, you missed my avatar, my muscles... You feel safe with me near you.

[Skull-1]

The Minmay icon doesn't fit... It's also screwing with the tables...

The folder icons is a good change. But the go-to-new-post should go back to the smaller arrow icon.

385912[/snapback]

Absolutely!!!

[promethuem5]

Gotta take this response in two parts....

It seems like nobody cares about the half assed nature of the leadership.

I think we all care, and that's why alot of us are trying to do something about it, and that's why we're all getting so pissed off at you for complaining like a little girl when we're all working really hard when we can on it.

... Come on, you are just frustrated because I have been absent for a month. You missed me, you missed my avatar, my muscles... You feel safe with me near you.

I must admit, I was begnning to wonder where you went... seems now like you've turned into an MGREXX like troll.... maybe if you just complained a little less and tried to help a bit, we wouldn't mind some (some) criticism. And I can't manage to get that otehr stupid IM program to work, so I never talk to you outside of MW anymore (where you're a bit more docile.)

[Agent ONE]

Gotta take this response in two parts....

It seems like nobody cares about the half assed nature of the leadership.

I think we all care, and that's why alot of us are trying to do something about it, and that's why we're all getting so pissed off at you for complaining like a little girl when we're all working really hard when we can on it.

... Come on, you are just frustrated because I have been absent for a month. You missed me, you missed my avatar, my muscles... You feel safe with me near you.

I must admit, I was begnning to wonder where you went... seems now like you've turned into an MGREXX like troll.... maybe if you just complained a little less and tried to help a bit, we wouldn't mind some (some) criticism. And I can't manage to get that otehr stupid IM program to work, so I never talk to you outside of MW anymore (where you're a bit more docile.)

385940[/snapback]

Alright for you, anything. I will attempt to not be such a pain in the ass, BUT I still think everyone should sign up at MN... M World is doomed.

[EXO]

The Minmay icon doesn't fit... It's also screwing with the tables...

The folder icons is a good change. But the go-to-new-post should go back to the smaller arrow icon.

385912[/snapback]

what did the old arrow look like. Perhaps we can make one that resembles the arrows on the DRYL battroid heads.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'm doing up some really quick here. I'll post them when I'm done so peope can poo poo them. I'm going with the current board color scheme for post icons but using the UN symbol and going all glassy ball on it. Give me about another fifteen minutes...

[JsARCLIGHT]

OK here is my fast and dirty button design. Colors are not so "in your face".

Click HERE to see the icons

I tried to hit all the bases so we will have icons for everything we currently have. The second icons behind the main icons that have the white "crosshair" boarders on them are icons that indicate to the MW user that they have posted in that topic.

Let me know and I can grind these to the right size and make GIF's out of them... or I can flush them down the toilet. Up to the peeps in charge and the people of MW.

[EXO]

OK here is my fast and dirty button design. Colors are not so "in your face".

Click HERE to see the icons

I tried to hit all the bases so we will have icons for everything we currently have. The second icons behind the main icons that have the white "crosshair" boarders on them are icons that indicate to the MW user that they have posted in that topic.

Let me know and I can grind these to the right size and make GIF's out of them... or I can flush them down the toilet. Up to the peeps in charge and the people of MW.

385997[/snapback]

poo poo!

Actually, I love those!

But I still like the idea of skulls too.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I can work skull flight symbols into the mix... I just kept it all one icon because a few people are complaining about too scattershot of an icon system.

[Hurin]

Those are very nice! And, yeah, I think things were getting a bit over-done with all the different symbols. Symbols should really convey something (through color,shape, or actual labeling) rather than just being arbitrary. If a "key" is actually necessary to understand the vast majority of them, then something as gone a bit wayward.

But, since so many people like the idea of a skull and crossbones being used for locked topics. . . what about super-imposing a that symbol over the kite symbol you've created?

Anyways, again, very nice!

H

[JsARCLIGHT]

Fast and dirty Skull Flight topic Icon:

[JsARCLIGHT]

Those are very nice!  And, yeah, I think things were getting a bit over-done with all the different symbols.  Symbols should really convey something (through color,shape, or actual labeling)  rather than just being arbitrary.  If a "key" is actually necessary to understand the vast majority of them, then something as gone a bit wayward.

Another thing to keep in mind is that these icons look good full size as they are now but when you shrink them and GIF-afy them they loose a lot of detail. I always liked how color and basic shape theme where the topic identifiers. Getting too complex with the design will make it a jumble at 30 x 30.

But, since so many people like the idea of a skull and crossbones being used for locked topics. . . what about super-imposing a that symbol over the kite symbol you've created?

The idea of the Skull Flight icon for locked topic is pretty nifty, if it was just that. Superimposing it at such a small resolution might get too muddy to see what it is. If I had my drothers I'd change the grey "lock" to a greyout Skull Flight for "locked topic"... but then the question persists would people know what it meant?

Edit: Oh and thanks for the praise!

Edited March 31, 2006 by JsARCLIGHT