Gundam Show Thread - MSG thru Witch from Mercury

[Kelsain]

LOL, in my search for an alternative way to watch Zeta, I came across a dub that's literally one guy doing different voices. I didn't stick with that long enough to see what he did with Fa or Emma.

[dizman]

Marketing to the max! 

 

[Valkyrie Driver]

What even is Build Fighters? Is it worth watching?

[dizman]

Build Fighters is a show about building gunpla and using a semi magic technology to fight with other peoples gunpla. As with any Gundam show the main focus is getting you to buy gunpla and BF has probably been the most successful in that regard. It's a smart way to market all Gundam series since you can have cool fights between MS from all series in one show. 

That aside it's still a great series with fun characters, great fights and has a lot of love for everything Gundam related crammed into it. I'd say give it a go, Build Fighters is a fun time especially if you are a long time Gundam fan. I would stay away from the English dub as it's half assed and the sequel Build Fighters Try isn't as good but it still had some fun moments.

[seti88]

Frankly speaking, i didnt expect to enjoy build fighters as much, 'cos cmon ...gunpla that come to life?

but it was a nice fun watch, with little takeaways like team spirit, perserverance, overcoming adversity and becoming one with your gunpla. 

[Kelsain]

I'm about 8 episodes into ZZ. I've heard it was a rough one to get through, but phew... Experiencing it first hand is a whole other animal. Gonna try to hang in there. They're just leaving Shangri-La now, so maybe a change of venue will help.

[dizman]

You can do it! Be warned ZZ doesn't get anywhere until around episode 20 then some good stuff starts happening (I'd even say skip those in-between episodes if you can't take it).

[F-ZeroOne]

So heres an oddity... the Western versions of "Zeta Gundam" had to substitute the opening theme due to rights issues, so can anyone explain to me why (on the UK release, anyway) the "Prelude to ZZ" episode is able to include the theme in its entirety?

[dizman]

I think it's because nobody cares about the first episode of ZZ let alone watched it long enough to get to that part. If anyone ever needed a quick buck I'm sure it would make for an easy copyright case seeing as it was officially sold in the US and UK.

Here's another strange oddity, when you start up the new Gundam VS game it instantly tells you that you cannot stream any of the games footage (through the PS4 anyways). The music playing in the background would cause copyright claims on YT so Bandai just said screw it and blocked all recording. I'm not sure if it's just laziness or if they don't own the rights to most of those songs in the US.

[Focslain]

22 hours ago, dizman said:

I think it's because nobody cares about the first episode of ZZ let alone watched it long enough to get to that part. If anyone ever needed a quick buck I'm sure it would make for an easy copyright case seeing as it was officially sold in the US and UK.

Here's another strange oddity, when you start up the new Gundam VS game it instantly tells you that you cannot stream any of the games footage (through the PS4 anyways). The music playing in the background would cause copyright claims on YT so Bandai just said screw it and blocked all recording. I'm not sure if it's just laziness or if they don't own the rights to most of those songs in the US.

Is the music from one of the series or something original to the game?

[dizman]

36 minutes ago, Focslain said:

Is the music from one of the series or something original to the game?

A lot of the songs are battle tracks from many of the series but I'd assume the big issue is there are a few of the series op tracks in there. It's strange to me they would release a game without securing the rights to the songs in it but Gundam VS has a pretty bare bones localization so I'd assume everything was done on the cheap.

[Focslain]

45 minutes ago, dizman said:

A lot of the songs are battle tracks from many of the series but I'd assume the big issue is there are a few of the series op tracks in there. It's strange to me they would release a game without securing the rights to the songs in it but Gundam VS has a pretty bare bones localization so I'd assume everything was done on the cheap.

That or even though they have the rights their too afraid that Youtube's craptastic copyright protection program will tag streamer for infringement even though bandai owns the rights. 

Remember that three copyright strikes and your channel gets barred and removing a strike is a long process. Best just to err on the side of caution, at least they warned players WHY it's suggested not to stream it. 

[dizman]

Oh my bad I gave the wrong impression there, all the game says when it starts up is "Gameplay recording paused because you entered blocked scene". The rest of it is just an educated guess since footage from the game is fine on YT as long as it's not playing the music. You are probably right that a large part has to do with YT's automated copyright machine just destroying everything as usual.

[Kelsain]

So, I thought about taking a break from the ZZ shenanigans to watch the Thunderbolt movie. And then there was the jazz...

I’m up to ZZ#18, and it’s definitely gotten better since they left Shangri-La.

[F-ZeroOne]

I think I'm getting old...  "ZZ" was recently released in the UK (the first half so far, anyway) and I've been re-watching it... and you know what? Its not bad.

Oh, as far as being a Universal Century "Gundam" show goes, its a disaster but... if you take it as a standalone parody mecha show that just happens to have some very suspiciously similar-looking "Gundam" characters in it (hey, look - I see what they did there, the captain of that ship looks almost exactly like Bright Noa, but it can't be Bright because hes chasing chickens! Genius!)... and a religious colony of neo-Luddites that live in a giant space station actually would fit right into any other Tomino show...

Like I say, I must be getting old...

I'm interested to see how I'm going to feel once the tone starts shifting back to "normal" in the second half...

Edited November 23, 2017 by F-ZeroOne
Minor adjustment.

[Kelsain]

It’s like Gundam’s Macross 7.

[tekering]

On 11/24/2017 at 5:58 AM, Kelsain said:

It’s like Gundam’s Macross 7.

No, it's not nearly that bad.  

Mapping Gundam onto Macross results in something like this:

 

Super Dimensional Fortress Macross = Mobile Suit Gundam

• The original and best
• strongly influenced all robot shows thereafter
• established a new standard for depicting mecha combat
• somewhat marred by its impoverished and uneven production values

Macross: Do You Remember Love? = Gundam the Origin

• a remake of the original, but with much higher production values
• some aesthetic and narrative changes, but basically the same story, characters, and voice cast
• more successful and more popular than most of the sequels

Macross II = Gundam F91

• a big-budget sequel that tried to do something new by borrowing tropes from other sci-fi series
• a critical and commercial failure that further sequels have ignored
• begrudgingly accepted by fans after seeing how much worse the following TV series was

Macross 7 = Mobile Fighter G Gundam

• a childish and frequently ridiculous follow-up TV series with a different setting and tone
• not popular with fans upon its release, and its reputation hasn't improved much with age
• possibly enjoyable, if you don't take it seriously

Macross Plus = Gundam 0080

• a four-episode OAV sequel with a different setting and a new character designer
• eschews the epic war story for a much more intimate character-driven drama
• benefits from much higher production values
• greatly loved and respected by the fandom

Macross Zero = Gundam MS Igloo

• a prequel series that makes extensive use of CGI for the first time in the franchise
• not very successful, owing to its expensive production budget and lukewarm reception by the fandom
• remembered primarily for its merchandising, rather than story or characters

Macross Frontier = Zeta Gundam

• substantially higher and more consistent production values, especially for a TV series
• maintains the militaristic feel largely abandoned by other sequel series
• initially skeptical fandom was won over by the compelling story and progressive mecha designs

Macross Delta = ZZ Gundam

• disappointing follow-up series with more immature characters
• often languid pace with too many "filler" episodes and substantially less mecha combat
• the best mecha designs are recycled from previous series

Edited November 25, 2017 by tekering

[seti88]

You are forgetting Gundam Unicorn and 0083!  Nice attempt at equivalency. I feel M2 is more like Reconguista than F91 

[dizman]

Hah there are a few that could fit in the Macross II slot like Victory and Age. I would say that Mac 7 and G Gundam actually have gained a better reputation over the years, though I may be a bit biased as I like both of em.

[kajnrig]

10 hours ago, tekering said:

Macross 7 = Mobile Fighter G Gundam

• a childish and frequently ridiculous follow-up TV series with a different setting and tone
• not popular with fans upon its release, and its reputation hasn't improved with age
• possibly enjoyable, if you don't take it seriously

"Childish" and "silly" are two different things... And all Gundam are targeted at children, even something ostensibly serious like Unicorn. I'd say G Gundam's reputation has ONLY improved with age. I certainly like it far more than I did fifteen years ago.

EDIT:

That said, I still haven't seen M7 yet, so the comparison might still be apt.

Edited November 24, 2017 by kajnrig

[Sandman]

Macross 7's reputation has improved with age, at least with the western fans. & was well enough like at the time it came out by the Japanese audience.

[Kelsain]

I wasn’t looking to directly equate the 2. I actually like 7 a lot, ZZ is growing on me. However, both were comedic follow ups to pretty serious entries, in order to change the tone. Both have very repetitive first 10 episodes or so. I found myself humming Planet Dance during the Shangri-La portion of the show. Both are polarizing among fans of the worthiness of their entry in the franchise.

And, since their original airings, both franchises have had more contentious  entries; giving these shows a little more legitimacy.

[F-ZeroOne]

One thing I forgot to mention about ZZ is the animation quality - its pretty good generally, which surprised me (despite having seen the series before). Also forgot that Haman went to the stylists after Zeta...

[eXis10z]

I thought Frontier was more like Gundam Seed to me.

[VFTF1]

I've been out of Gundam for a while now and am getting back in. Is Orphans any good? I tried watching 00 when that came out but couldn't get into it. Love UC (Msg and Zeta). I kinda like the mecha in Orphans. Read some reviews. What's the feel here? 

Edited November 29, 2017 by VFTF1
Typo

[SuperHobo]

2 hours ago, VFTF1 said:

I've been out of Gundam for a while now and am getting back in. Is Orphans any good? I tried watching 00 when that came out but couldn't get into it. Love UC (Msg and Zeta). I kinda like the mecha in Orphans. Read some reviews. What's the feel here? 

Season 1 has better direction, but is incredibly boring until the very end. Season 2 is much more exciting, and entertaining, but is less focused. Season 2 also has a rather controversial ending that some enjoyed (like me) and some hate. 

[kajnrig]

9 minutes ago, SuperHobo said:

Season 1 has better direction, but is incredibly boring until the very end. Season 2 is much more exciting, and entertaining, but is less focused. Season 2 also has a rather controversial ending that some enjoyed (like me) and some hate. 

Yeah, this seems to be the consensus. I stopped midway into season 1 - for trying to do some things different, the show didn't do enough different - but I've read up on the season 2 ending and I'm overall more positive than negative about the direction they went with it.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, VFTF1 said:

I've been out of Gundam for a while now and am getting back in. Is Orphans any good? I tried watching 00 when that came out but couldn't get into it. Love UC (Msg and Zeta). I kinda like the mecha in Orphans. Read some reviews. What's the feel here? 

Hm... I can kind of understand having a difficult time getting into Mobile Suit Gundam 00, given that it was essentially New Mobile Report Gundam Wing made over in Gundam Evolve's art style.  I'm still rewatching that one currently, for the first time since it came out.

Iron-Blooded Orphans is definitely one of Gundam's darker installments, and it takes the franchise's "war is hell" message a lot more seriously than most Gundam shows do these days.  As a result, its first season drags a fair bit when the writers jump on every opportunity to show how awful life is in the space colonies and on Mars thanks to Earth's oppressive policies, enforced economic inequality, and the corruption of Gjallarhorn.  It echoes SEED when it comes to antagonists, with them being either Noble Demon punchclock villains or Complete Monsters with very little middle ground.  The main characters hold the idiot ball a bit too often, though that's probably a realistic outcome of a bunch of uneducated child soldiers operating without supervision.

The combat feels VERY different from a Gundam show's usual flavor.  The absence of any kind of beam weaponry and the armor tech making conventional guns mostly useless makes the battles a lot messier and more brutal.  It adds some real weight to the proceedings, since instead of having clean-edged beam saber slices or exploding into censor-friendly pink clouds, the mobile suits from IBO beat each other into submission with edged and blunt weapons until the brutalized enemy MS goes eerily still like a corpse.  The cockpit-crushed-in death that was too grim for anyone but total monster Paptimus Scirocco in Zeta Gundam is pretty much the standard in IBO, and the incredibly messy consequences are shown often enough to be kind of unsettling (which was the point).  The kid gloves are off in IBO, I guess is what I'm trying to say.  

I thought it was quite good, though I seem to be something of an exception in that I found season one to be almost as good as season two.

[dizman]

IBO is a good bordering on great Gundam show, I'd definitely recommend watching it. The series does drag at points with a few three episode stints without anything happening and a few plot lines that were better left cut out but when it gets going oh man it's great. Like Seto said the combat is fast and brutal, very refreshing from the usual Gundam fights. They even managed to make mobile armors into even more horrific killing machines than usual.  

[Kelsain]

That, and they’re very clear about the pilots being mostly child slaves. It’s frequently depressing af. But a really good show.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

22 minutes ago, Kelsain said:

That, and they’re very clear about the pilots being mostly child slaves. It’s frequently depressing af. But a really good show.

Only about half, and only after the thing with the Brewers... Akihiro and Chad are the only regulars who were slaves, the rest were just orphans and urchins turned child soldiers who agreed to undergo dangerous cybernetic surgery to get a job at CGS should the implants actually take.

Still, that's probably worse... what with the high failure rate, horrible consequences thereof, etc. etc..  Post-Disaster is a really lousy time to be alive even by Gundam standards unless you live on Earth.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Seto Kaiba

[eXis10z]

IBO is a depressingly good gundam series. I thought the ending was kinda realistic. History is always written by the victors.

[kajnrig]

3 minutes ago, eXis10z said:

IBO is a depressingly good gundam series. I thought the ending was kinda realistic. History is always written by the victors.

I wonder if it wouldn't have been more successful (storywise, not in terms of merchandising, god no, this show sold gangbusters) if it'd been an original show altogether. Nothing takes me out of a Gundam show more than the way characters react to the Gundam.

[seanami]

The worst part of IBO is its super blatant death flags, annoying and ruined any surprises

[VFTF1]

Thanks everyone for your input. I guess I will check it out and make up my own mind. I'm somewhat drawn to the mecha design too.