Gundam Show Thread - MSG thru Witch from Mercury

[azrael]

What targeting system do all these Mobile Suits use? Cuz for 10 minutes everyone is shooting state-of-the-art beam weapons and no one is coming close to hitting a target.

Ummmm....that's due to Minovsky particles. Minovsky particles screw with electronics like most forms of sensors and communication in MSs. So MSs have to rely on visual sensors (i.e. cameras and human peepers) to shoot at each other. This is also why then end up in close-quarter combat situations fighting with melee weapons like beam sabers.

[DarrinG]

Huh - what-do-ya-know - there is answer.

I guess target locking missiles and such is the stuff of Macross and other shows, and these 'particles' help make the combat feel different in Gundam.

More like gladiators who are marched out a few at a time instead of massive dog fights.

But bad-guys gain so much more credibility when they're zapping the good guys in bunches. You actually become nervous for the hero to meet up with them.

And anyway - my last frustrated vent came a few episodes back on Earth - where a Newtype in a Gaplant couldn't hit a kid 500 yards away who'd never flown in combat before. Not sure the particles are to blame there...

[azrael]

Huh - what-do-ya-know - there is answer.

There's a whole bunch of answers. Heck there's even a glossary. There's volumes of material on the UC-timeline.

http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/uc/background/glossary.html

[Vifam7]

And anyway - my last frustrated vent came a few episodes back on Earth - where a Newtype in a Gaplant couldn't hit a kid 500 yards away who'd never flown in combat before. Not sure the particles are to blame there...

One could potentially explain this by the fact that the Gaplant pilot (Rosamia IIRC) was an "Artifical Newtype" (aka. Cyber Newtype / 強化人間 in Japanese ) and not a pure Newtype like Camille. Plus there are differing levels of Newtype capability in the Gundam universe. Camille is considered to be one that has more Newtype ability than others.

[DarrinG]

Thanks for the answers and input - I'll check out that Glossary.

What is the next cool thing I should be anxious to see in the Zeta series? Give me something to watch for . . .

[VFTF1]

Sorry for the long delay. Victory Gundam Episode 4 reviewed and online!

http://dyrl.pl/detale.html?id=1000

Pete

[Marzan]

Got last week my Anime Legends Zeta Gundam dvd sets and have gone on a marathon so I'm halfway through by now. Good stuff. Much more compact story than the original although sometimes I find it hard to keep up with all the characters showing up, specially the Titan pilots.

Anyway, I'm get the feeling that the subs are a bit poor. I understand very little japanese, but I cannot help but thinking that sometimes they only convey the bare essentials of some dialogue. I then have to go back and see it again with the dub (which is ghastly, I mean where do the get these voice actors?) to get a better feel for the situation.

Has anyone who's watched the Zeta Gundam series in this version felt the same way?

[areaseven]

Just finished watching Model Suit Gunpla Builders Beginning G, and I'm a little disappointed. Aside from the OVA being a long Gunpla commercial, was there any point in the story?

[Keith]

Subs definately aren't the best, but unless they went backwords in masters, they shouldn't quite be dubtitles. Note that the first release was just shy of being full blown dubtitles.

[Shonen Ninja]

Just finished watching Model Suit Gunpla Builders Beginning G, and I'm a little disappointed. Aside from the OVA being a long Gunpla commercial, was there any point in the story?

I don't think so. From what I saw it looked very stereotypical. Something to come up with as a excuse to justify the battles and different suits.

[azrael]

Just finished watching Model Suit Gunpla Builders Beginning G, and I'm a little disappointed. Aside from the OVA being a long Gunpla commercial, was there any point in the story?

Not really. It was a promo for the Gunpla Builders-series kits. But it was fun watching the models break apart.

[areaseven]

Not really. It was a promo for the Gunpla Builders-series kits. But it was fun watching the models break apart.

Good point. It was also fun seeing a 1/144 Sazabi custom beat up a 1/550 Big Zam.

[mrhillz]

I figured this thread would be as good as any to ask about Gundam Related stuff, since I didn't see any other ones. I just watched Endless Waltz for the first time in a LOOOOONG time, maybe 7-8 years. My question is this- why all the hate some people have for the W series? The gay undertones, if somewhat invented by trolls, are a given, but why else? It's just a bit of a retelling of the one year war with a few twists.

[kanedaestes]

I don't hate it, and we have a Gundam Show Thread for this question. Lately I have been watching a LOT of gundam and Wing is still in the top for the meta series, but then i am biased as that was the first one I watched.

Edited March 20, 2011 by kanedaestes

[Gubaba]

I posted this in the model thread by mistake. Here's my question.

. I just watched Endless Waltz for the first time in a LOOOOONG time, maybe 7-8 years. My question is this- why all the hate some people have for the W series? The gay undertones, if somewhat invented by trolls, are a given, but why else? It's just a bit of a retelling of the one year war with a few twists.

I think most of it is due to the Wing fans arguing strenuously for Wing being THE! GREATEST!! GUNDAM!!! SERIES!!!! EVER!!!!! and putting down the UC stuff.

[Archer]

I posted this in the model thread by mistake. Here's my question.

. I just watched Endless Waltz for the first time in a LOOOOONG time, maybe 7-8 years. My question is this- why all the hate some people have for the W series? The gay undertones, if somewhat invented by trolls, are a given, but why else? It's just a bit of a retelling of the one year war with a few twists.

I really don't think there is that much "hate" for the Wing series, as, for example, there is toward the Mobile Fighter G series, but I would guess that there are probably 3 potential reasons for people DISLIKING the wing series.

First of all, some people do consider the Gundam designs a bit ridiculous and/or unrealistic, thereby deviating from the normal "Real Robot" feel of past Gundams or UC Gundams. I guess there is some truth to that...for example, in EW, Wing Zero has GIANT FEATHERED WINGS. What this has in terms of purpose besides the loose argument of atmospheric flight/reentry purposes, one can only guess, but the fact remains that the protagonist Gundam has Angel Wings....

Second reason may be that some people just don't like anything outside of UC. I don't know how legitimate of an argument that may be, but there is no arguing that a lot of Gundam fans are only faithful to the original UC series, and anything outside of that is trash.....(not my opinions btw)

Lastly, some people just plain didn't like the way Gundam Wing went. I mean, everyone can't like everything right? Some people just didn't like the series. For what reason, I can't say, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. And beyond that, the series is far from a simple retelling of the one year war....

These are what I've heard as justifications for dislike of the Wing Series, but I wouldn't go as far as to say there is a lot of HATE for the series. Some people dislike it, but meh, what are you gonna do? As I said, Everyone can't like everything And as far as I know, there are a LOT of people who really enjoyed the series, including myself and many others here, which is why Bandai is successfully selling a lot of Wing merchandise at the moment, and there even has been a MANGA release recently.

Just my humble $0.02. Don't want to derail this thread any further

[kanedaestes]

I started rewatching it, but yes now that i know more about the Gundam Metaverse the UC stuff, most of it anyway, is better than most of the alternate reality ones. That being said I really haven't heard that much hate about Gundam Wing from people, then again as I said I am new to a lot of the Gundamverse as a whole.

[Robelwell202]

The one thing that I've heard about 'Wing' is that Gundam-00's pretty much a rehash of it, without all the suck (for the one that gave me that quote, you know who you are. )

Personally, I'm somewhat impressed by the designs of the Gundams, and the one that impresses me the most is the Deathscythe Hell Custom from EW. I plan to get the model, and if I do that, I should probably watch the show, huh?

[anime52k8]

The one thing that I've heard about 'Wing' is that Gundam-00's pretty much a rehash of it, without all the suck (for the one that gave me that quote, you know who you are. )

Personally, I'm somewhat impressed by the designs of the Gundams, and the one that impresses me the most is the Deathscythe Hell Custom from EW. I plan to get the model, and if I do that, I should probably watch the show, huh?

Maybe it's nostalgia talking but I'd rather watch an episode of wing than an episode of 00 any day. The first season of 00 is sort of similar to wing in terms of general over view. 00 season two starts drifting away from it in order to rehash zeta gundam AGAIN.

Edited March 21, 2011 by anime52k8

[Keith]

That doesn't make sense, considering how hard Wing rehashed Zeta too. For the record:

-Wing = Zeta Rehash that starts out like G

-X = ZZ Rehash with some Orguss mixed in

-SEED = MSG/Zeta Rehash

-SEED Destiny = Zeta rehash with evil MSG side characters

-00 - Waiting for the cheap collected versions or blurays to come out to watch.

[bob joe mac]

Wing overall was just bland not really bad but with a slow moving plot uniteresting characters no danger towards any of the gundam pilots because their MS were invincible and it brought nothing new to the table and 00 felt like a better paced wing but just as dumb with its save the world by killing anyone with a weapon idea.

Easily my two least favorite gundam series.

[Marzan]

Over the last year I've slowly been watching the UC Gundam series in some kind of an order and so far I'm very happy. Currently watching Stardust Memory and then only will be missing F91 and Victory (well and Unicorn but I'll watch that when it's complete).

Having said that, reading all the posts of all you who have a in depth knowledge of all things Gundam, I think I don't really feel like watching non-UC stuff. It seems that most of it is according to most, either inferior to the UC stuff or just plain marketed to another demographic. I think that besides Turn a Gundam I've really not heard overall positive reviews of an non-UC series.

[Keith]

Watch G. Despite all of the hate it gets, it's a good unconventional series.

[renegadeleader1]

I agree G is one crazy show, but worth watching. Where else are you going to see a kung fu master beat down a mobile suit with his bare hands?

[anime52k8]

G gundam is far and away my all time favorite gundam series. It's a lot like Macross 7 in that it's very different from other shows in the franchise, but it's an awesome show.

this is pritty much the average level of the show for it's entire 49 episode run.

If that sounds good to you, go watch it.

Edited March 22, 2011 by anime52k8

[bob joe mac]

Over the last year I've slowly been watching the UC Gundam series in some kind of an order and so far I'm very happy. Currently watching Stardust Memory and then only will be missing F91 and Victory (well and Unicorn but I'll watch that when it's complete).

Having said that, reading all the posts of all you who have a in depth knowledge of all things Gundam, I think I don't really feel like watching non-UC stuff. It seems that most of it is according to most, either inferior to the UC stuff or just plain marketed to another demographic. I think that besides Turn a Gundam I've really not heard overall positive reviews of an non-UC series.

I have found while watching the AU stuff the ones I enjoyed were the ones that weren't rehashed versions of the UC stories and tried to be something new. G Gundam while not at all being a gundam show was one of the best Super robot shows I've ever seen and Turn A gundam was easily in my top 3 gundam productions. Not to say all the others are trash just nothing ground breaking. SEED was more or less a reboot of MSG with more gundams and more pretty boys and while SEED was all right SEED destiny which started off awesome ruined the CE gundam for me.

Then again gundam has always been the same stuff over and over again its been the characters interacting with the twisted plotlines tomino and crew threw at them which made them watchable I mean how many times in gundam have we seen either Space nazi's conquering earth or Earth Nazi's being mean toward space people?

MSG - Evil space people

Z - Evil earth people

ZZ - Evil space VS. Evil Earth

CCA - dumb earth people vs Evil space

F91 - nonsense earth people fighting evil space people

V - Evil space people fighting earth people

G - Gundams fight in tournaments to decide who rules earth for year and all sorts of crazy plottwists and ends up more or less with a battle against the devil with cameos from every gundam series set before... and one after it...

W - Space terrorists vs. apeface earth people

X - What if space nazi's droped all their colonys on earth and killed everyone? Neat setup bad followup

Turn A - anti-war message... where the characters DONT fight every episode... O.o wow

Seed - Space Nazis vs. Earth people then the twist earth people are evil TOO so fight everyone at the same time.

00 - Space terrorists fight anyone with a dangerous stick.

And here I am still watching these shows

[Marzan]

G gundam is far and away my all time favorite gundam series. It's a lot like Macross 7 in that it's very different from other shows in the franchise, but it's an awesome show.

this is pritty much the average level of the show for it's entire 49 episode run.

If that sounds good to you, go watch it.

That reminded me more of Fist of the North Star than any Gundam series.

All right, if 3 of you guys can agree on this my curiousity is officialy piqued and I'll check out G as well.

[reeoyuy]

Having said that, reading all the posts of all you who have a in depth knowledge of all things Gundam, I think I don't really feel like watching non-UC stuff. It seems that most of it is according to most, either inferior to the UC stuff or just plain marketed to another demographic. I think that besides Turn a Gundam I've really not heard overall positive reviews of an non-UC series.

Not really, all AU shows were targeted to the same demographic as UC series. By series I mean the original trilogy and Victory. It's just that preferences of said demographic is different on each era. We may never understand why it's necessary to have pretty boys and kids these days don't understand what's so interesting about Tomino-style storytelling. That's why Bandai/Sunrise keep churning out new AUs to capitalize new generation of fans while still hoping to please older fans.

Now for OVAs and sidestories with adult characters and gritty theme (such as 0083 and 08th MS)they were targeted to older fans. These fans were (supposedly) the same people that enjoyed the original trilogy as a kid. They're part of UC but I don't think they're definitive UC or even definitive Gundam. Some people use these titles when comparing UC with AU, which is unfair. How can you compare decades year old universe against an universe that just barely started? I once read MS IGLOO reviews and the reviewer said something about why UC is always inferior to all AUs because realism and grittiness and things like that; it's just unfair. Give CE 20-30 years and maybe we'll have something equal to 08th MS or IGLOO. Now (for example) if we want to compare who's better at whining between Kira and Amuro (of MSG, not Z or CCA)that's a fair comparison.

Watch G. Despite all of the hate it gets, it's a good unconventional series.

See, if an AU tried to stick into old tradition, people called it rehash/rip-off/retelling. If it tried to be different, people cried "this is not Gundam!". It's not a matter of being original or not actually. I like changes and originality, but I don't mind retelling too. It's all about the execution of the concept. If it's good, then it's good; doesn't matter if it borrowed many things from older series or if it doesn't look like a Gundam series at all.

[Keith]

No, U.C. isn't better because of its rich history & lineage, it's better because they don't re-hash previous shows in the newer stories. Look at Unicorn, it's not Zeta, it's not MSG, it's a "little bit" of F91 so far, but it's mostly original awesome.

[anime52k8]

No, U.C. isn't better because of its rich history & lineage, it's better because they don't re-hash previous shows in the newer stories. Look at Unicorn, it's not Zeta, it's not MSG, it's a "little bit" of F91 so far, but it's mostly original awesome.

[reeoyuy]

No, U.C. isn't better because of its rich history & lineage, it's better because they don't re-hash previous shows in the newer stories. Look at Unicorn, it's not Zeta, it's not MSG, it's a "little bit" of F91 so far, but it's mostly original awesome.

The only AU with animated sequel is SEED and Wing. And yes, Destiny is basically (stupid) retelling of SEED story again so your point is right for CE. But Endless Waltz is different from Wing TV and no other AUs have sequel (unless you count OO movie) so Destiny repetitiveness is not representing all AUs. If what you mean by 'rehash previous shows' is AU taking elements from UC or older AU, it's normal. Since AU is meant to be a fresh start after all; for example we probably had enough with a "kid accidentally pilot a Gundam" plot but for many people who never watch any Gundam before SEED Kira's wacky adventures is something new.

[Vifam7]

Of all the alternate universe Gundam series, personally I thought Gundam X was the best. I'd even say that Gundam X was a much more enjoyable series than any of the other 1990's Gundam TV series (including the UC continuity Victory).

[Keith]

The only AU with animated sequel is SEED and Wing. And yes, Destiny is basically (stupid) retelling of SEED story again so your point is right for CE. But Endless Waltz is different from Wing TV and no other AUs have sequel (unless you count OO movie) so Destiny repetitiveness is not representing all AUs. If what you mean by 'rehash previous shows' is AU taking elements from UC or older AU, it's normal. Since AU is meant to be a fresh start after all; for example we probably had enough with a "kid accidentally pilot a Gundam" plot but for many people who never watch any Gundam before SEED Kira's wacky adventures is something new.

Wing = MSG + G + Zeta

Endless Waltz = Z + ZZ ending

SEED = MSG/Wing + Z

SEED Destiny = MSG/SEED + Z

My point being, most AU shows just can't get out of that Zeta dynamic spiral. And yes, Zeta is an awesome story, but it "should not" define all of Gundam. And does not define all of the U.C.

Of all the alternate universe Gundam series, personally I thought Gundam X was the best. I'd even say that Gundam X was a much more enjoyable series than any of the other 1990's Gundam TV series (including the UC continuity Victory).

My only real problem with X, was that it totally negates what U.C. Gundam has always been about. it spits in the face of the evolutionary aspect, just say "nah, Newtypes are just a random mutation, and not the next level of existence." That, and I freakin HATE D.O.M.E. Like I said, X is essentially ZZ mixed with Orguss.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Keith

[reeoyuy]

Wing = MSG + G + Zeta

Endless Waltz = Z + ZZ ending

SEED = MSG/Wing + Z

SEED Destiny = MSG/SEED + Z

My point being, most AU shows just can't get out of that Zeta dynamic spiral. And yes, Zeta is an awesome story, but it "should not" define all of Gundam. And does not define all of the U.C.

True, you can always traced old elements and sum up the show as "this + that" but then again it's not exactly defined the whole show is all about. Those old ideas are represented on a new & different packages anyway, different characters, settings, units, or even entirely different outcome. The way a new show played out those old ideas is something worth to watch...or not. Like I said before, it's not a matter of taking old shows influence is good or bad thing to do, it's about how they pulled it off. Being original for the sake of being different is not always good but using old proven premise also doesn't guarantee a success.

My only real problem with X, was that it totally negates what U.C. Gundam has always been about. it spits in the face of the evolutionary aspect, just say "nah, Newtypes are just a random mutation, and not the next level of existence." That, and I freakin HATE D.O.M.E. Like I said, X is essentially ZZ mixed with Orguss.

But that exactly the point, X is not UC. It's an universe that essentially a "what if" of UC. It took many concept of UC but twisting everything, primarily the whole Newtype concept. The way that Newtypes revealed for being nothing special is a hard slap for both SRA and UNE that exploited Newtypes for their own cause. X successfully making itself as "not UC".

Although I really want to see UC Newtype evolutionist theory supporters (like Zeon Zum Deikun) expression when they hear what D.O.M.E said.

[Marzan]

Have to watch waaaay more Gundam before I can comment on what you guys are writing on UC vs. other Gundam series.

So far I gotta say that I'm loving Stardust Memory. Nice story with low levels of teenage angst. And the animation and art is top notch. I'm particularly enjoying how all the mechanical designs look so well put together.