Gundam Show Thread - MSG thru Witch from Mercury

[kung flu]

If it's UC, I'll watch it.

If it's Tomino, I'll watch it.

If it's a live action movie using leftover costumes from Starship Troopers, I won't watch it.

I'm pretty much the same, I'm really not interested in any of the alternate universe shows like wing, seed etc......I grew up in the west watching UC when gundam was virtually unknown, until wing started to make its way over and became popular. After that, people lumped all gundam shows together and called it all "Wing" which really annoyed me as a kid, and it was hard trying to explain the difference and it was hard for wing fans to understand the whole alternate universe jazz.

[azrael]

Gundam 00 is not directed by Tomino. Seiji Mizushima directs Gundam 00.

Tomino is not involved because he's not available, doesn't want to do it, or Sunrise wants to experiment with Gundam again. Sometimes it works, sometimes it utterly fails.

However, Hajime Yatate and Yoshiyuki Tomino have always been credited with "Originally created by:..."

[Vifam7]

However, Hajime Yatate and Yoshiyuki Tomino have always been credited with "Originally created by:..."

Yadate Hajime is just a pseudoname for Sunrise. In the credits Tomino is simply credited for originally creating Gundam in general. He doesn't have any involvement in the actual production if 00.

[Gubaba]

I'm pretty much the same, I'm really not interested in any of the alternate universe shows like wing, seed etc......I grew up in the west watching UC when gundam was virtually unknown, until wing started to make its way over and became popular. After that, people lumped all gundam shows together and called it all "Wing" which really annoyed me as a kid, and it was hard trying to explain the difference and it was hard for wing fans to understand the whole alternate universe jazz.

Yeah, that's bothersome. I remember seeing a print advertisement once for "Mobile Suit Gundam Wing 0083," which just made me facepalm.

I've also noticed (pure anecdotal evidence, not tryin' to make a blanket statement) that it seems like a lot of people who prefer Robotech to Macross also prefer Wing to U.C. Not sure why, though.

[Loner]

Yeah, that's bothersome. I remember seeing a print advertisement once for "Mobile Suit Gundam Wing 0083," which just made me facepalm.

I've also noticed (pure anecdotal evidence, not tryin' to make a blanket statement) that it seems like a lot of people who prefer Robotech to Macross also prefer Wing to U.C. Not sure why, though.

It might have to do with what they saw first.

[Bri]

Robotech and Wing both had english dubs and DVDs were rather easy to get compared to Macross and UC Gundam. Add the preference of the casual/mainstream viewer for dubs and it eems like a safe bet that Wing viewers would prefer RT.

Wing while not being particuarly good (at least that's what I remember) it did pull in fans to gundam and helped anime gain mainstream acceptance in the late 90s.

[Black Valkyrie]

Since

the ending of the Zeta movies has been changed, where does ZZ stand.

[F-ZeroOne]

I just want to say that I've seen one episode of Turn-A - namely Episode 8. I watched it because I wanted to see the episode with the cow that came with my MG Turn-A Gundam. I am still dissapointed in my 1/100 cow. It's too big. It's supposed to fit in Turn-A's missile compartment but doesn't really...

Anyways - I liked the feeling and the mood to Turn-A; also liked the mecha - particularly the...err...green things with the long arms...Kapok? Kapowee? Kapiokas? Whatever - they were cool.

I also liked the retro/alternative technological landscape in terms of aesthetics.

The one problem with Gundam is that there's so much of it to watch... dag. Building Gundam kits is easier than getting straight on this continuity.

Pete

Wheres my cow? Oh, there is is - inside the Turn-A!

Its not just the TV series, either - theres also the spin-offs, like Gundam Sentinel, Crossbone Gundam (IIRC?), Flash of Hathaway etc etc...

[kung flu]

Yeah, that's bothersome. I remember seeing a print advertisement once for "Mobile Suit Gundam Wing 0083," which just made me facepalm.

I supose thats one of the reasons why I avoid alternate shows, even if they are good or not. But one thing i noticed in the alternate shows is that there is just too many gundams in them, almost evey major character gets to have their own gundam and they are always given fancy names, like "justice" ,"Freedom".....etc. Its almost like its power rangers or something. Also they are shown to be indestructable and capable of destroying entire armies. At least in UC the gundams and mobile suits in general are protrayed as being weapons of war like tanks etc and they have their weeknesses and limits.

[Gubaba]

Robotech and Wing both had english dubs and DVDs were rather easy to get compared to Macross and UC Gundam. Add the preference of the casual/mainstream viewer for dubs and it eems like a safe bet that Wing viewers would prefer RT.

Wing while not being particuarly good (at least that's what I remember) it did pull in fans to gundam and helped anime gain mainstream acceptance in the late 90s.

Yeah, but the original Gundam is only available in the U.S. as a dub, too...I think Loner may be right in saying it's whatever they were exposed to first.

And I think ultimately, Wing in the U.S. failed to do what Bandai wanted it to do, which was to get people interested in the entire franchise, and move their devotion from Wing to U.C. And that didn't happen.

I lay a lot of the blame at their feet, though...with something as complicated as Gundam, releasing everything out of order will only confuse all but the most hardcore fans. Plus, they started too late. If they had released the original series in, say, 1993 instead of 2001, it would've sold more, I think. Or, at the VERY latest, they should've released it IMMEDIATELY after the initial AnimeVillage.com blitz of the Movie Trilogy, 0080, and 0083 (and waited on releasing 0083 until after they finished the first series).

there's also the problem that 0083 has an ending that doesn't make sense unless you've seen Zeta. Although being able to leap into Zeta right after finishing it would've solved a lot of those problems. Unfortunately, 0083 came out here in '98, and Zeta in '05. Not a good strategy.

I supose thats one of the reasons why I avoid alternate shows, even if they are good or not. But one thing i noticed in the alternate shows is that there is just too many gundams in them, almost evey major character gets to have their own gundam and they are always given fancy names, like "justice" ,"Freedom".....etc. Its almost like its power rangers or something. Also they are shown to be indestructable and capable of destroying entire armies. At least in UC the gundams and mobile suits in general are protrayed as being weapons of war like tanks etc and they have their weeknesses and limits.

Yeah, that's kind of my problem, too. And that's also why I wish they would stop revisiting the One-Year-War in comics and the like. It's clearly set up in the first series that there is only one Gundam (and, let's face it, it is nearly indestructible, at least at the beginning of the show). And Zeta introduces the Gundam Mk. II. But if you factor in all the side stories, comics, and games, you've got a One-Year-War with DOZENS of Gundams (even mass-produced types) running around kicking ass, which really doesn't fit with the story as originally presented.

And then when Bandai decided that EVERYONE in each series needed to have a Gundam...well, I'm not too thrilled with that idea. Although I'll admit that a lot of them look pretty damn cool.

[promethuem5]

The other thing I personally noticed as someone who was introduced to Gundam by Wing (scary, I know) was that if you didn't have Toonami on, you probably missed new stuff coming out anyway. I Got interested in Gundam when my mom bought me the four pack of the first 4 isues of the Viz comic books when they came out, and then I bought a few models, and then never saw a Gundam thing again until G-Gundam and the Battle Scarred Wing figures were going on clearance... (not entirely true, I am pretty sure I once saw the DX GP-01FB at TRU and kick myself for not buying it... had to finally import one from Japan last week). But as someone who didn't have the TV shows directly available (but would have totally eaten up more buyable stuff if I'd known about it) I totally lost interest... the only other major purchases I made were EW and F91 on DVD, and god-help me id F91 didn't throw me for a loop! Truth be told, I didn't even put two and two together and realize 0083 had a true domestic release until a year or two ago... I just figured it'd been dubbed and dumped to DVD.

I think it was hearing about and finally downloading 08th MS Team that finally brought me back in... that and seeing the SEED Mangas and being curious.

Edited January 25, 2009 by promethuem5

[Bri]

I supose thats one of the reasons why I avoid alternate shows, even if they are good or not. But one thing i noticed in the alternate shows is that there is just too many gundams in them, almost evey major character gets to have their own gundam and they are always given fancy names, like "justice" ,"Freedom".....etc. Its almost like its power rangers or something. Also they are shown to be indestructable and capable of destroying entire armies. At least in UC the gundams and mobile suits in general are protrayed as being weapons of war like tanks etc and they have their weeknesses and limits.

Your absolutly right there. UC is more of a war story/space opera while the Alternate stuff is closer to super robot shows. For me it's not a problem as the alternate status removes the responsebility to be true to the original. I would be furious Sunrise/Bandai placed it the alternate stuff in the UC continuity.

Yeah, but the original Gundam is only available in the U.S. as a dub, too...I think Loner may be right in saying it's whatever they were exposed to first.

And I think ultimately, Wing in the U.S. failed to do what Bandai wanted it to do, which was to get people interested in the entire franchise, and move their devotion from Wing to U.C. And that didn't happen.

<snip>

Yeah, that's kind of my problem, too. And that's also why I wish they would stop revisiting the One-Year-War in comics and the like. It's clearly set up in the first series that there is only one Gundam (and, let's face it, it is nearly indestructible, at least at the beginning of the show). And Zeta introduces the Gundam Mk. II. But if you factor in all the side stories, comics, and games, you've got a One-Year-War with DOZENS of Gundams (even mass-produced types) running around kicking ass, which really doesn't fit with the story as originally presented.

And then when Bandai decided that EVERYONE in each series needed to have a Gundam...well, I'm not too thrilled with that idea. Although I'll admit that a lot of them look pretty damn cool.

I stand corrected, wasn't aware that the original series was dubbed in the US. In the Netherlands we had English dubbed imports in the stores of Wing, it's movie and Chars counterattack and later Seed, never seen any UC. I saw most of the UC stuff from HongKong dubs in the early nineties (which didnt really help understanding the story I can tell you ).

As for the multiple gundams. I'm sure Bandai executives regret not having presured Tomino to flood UC with more Gundams. The Japanse demand for hero mechs must have limited their ability to capitalise on the early bit of the franchise. I wonder how much influence a director has these days on the inclusion of the number of mecha... (thats me being cynical).

[kung flu]

Yeah, that's kind of my problem, too. And that's also why I wish they would stop revisiting the One-Year-War in comics and the like. It's clearly set up in the first series that there is only one Gundam (and, let's face it, it is nearly indestructible, at least at the beginning of the show). And Zeta introduces the Gundam Mk. II. But if you factor in all the side stories, comics, and games, you've got a One-Year-War with DOZENS of Gundams (even mass-produced types) running around kicking ass, which really doesn't fit with the story as originally presented.

And then when Bandai decided that EVERYONE in each series needed to have a Gundam...well, I'm not too thrilled with that idea. Although I'll admit that a lot of them look pretty damn cool.

Even though they've done one year war to death, they've kept to the same rules, in that the mobile suits are just weapons of war and not super invincible. The 08th ms team had more than one gundam but they were shown to be just as vulnerable as any other mobile suit. I know there are some episodes where the gundam can take a lot of dammage depending on the story, but its was always thought of or explained that it had better armour since its a more advance suit than Zakus. Another excuse is the pilot, if the pilot is crap like Sayla, the gundam gets damaged and since Amuro was good with the guncannon that also says alot. Its the pilot's abillities and the story that determines the fate of the gundam.

I really wish they move away from one year war too, but i'm really enjoying MS Igloo atm. It would be great if they made new shows and side stories in the Zeta era.

[F-ZeroOne]

I remember reading once that the original line of model kits, "Mobile SUIT Variation" (which featured things like tank Zakus and recon Zakus) was originally Tominos idea, after a request from Bandai to expand their range of model kits. I suspect the trend for multiple variations of recent mecha can be traced back to that.

[Gubaba]

Even though they've done one year war to death, they've kept to the same rules, in that the mobile suits are just weapons of war and not super invincible. The 08th ms team had more than one gundam but they were shown to be just as vulnerable as any other mobile suit. I know there are some episodes where the gundam can take a lot of dammage depending on the story, but its was always thought of or explained that it had better armour since its a more advance suit than Zakus. Another excuse is the pilot, if the pilot is crap like Sayla, the gundam gets damaged and since Amuro was good with the guncannon that also says alot. Its the pilot's abillities and the story that determines the fate of the gundam.

I really wish they move away from one year war too, but i'm really enjoying MS Igloo atm. It would be great if they made new shows and side stories in the Zeta era.

Well...the RX-78-2 was well-nigh invincible until Zeon brought in the Gouf and the Dom. Amuro wasn't a very good pilot when he started either, but the Zaku bullets just bounced right off him. Even Char had a tough time with him in the early episodes.

Anyway, ll the Zeon soldiers talk about the Gundam being so fearsome, but if you've got the RX-78-3 and RX-78-4 up in space, the RX-78-6 slicing through Zakus in Zeonic Front, Mass-Produced RX-79s running around in the jungle, three Blue Destiny Gundams swatting Zeon cruisers like flies, and countless others...well, jeez, why is the White Base so important? And why did the Federation bother with the vastly inferior GMs?

Full disclosure: I really didn't like the 08th MS Team for a number of reasons, only one of which is that I think it really messes up the continuity of the One-Year-War.

MS Igloo, on the other hand, is very cool. I love what they've done so far, and I'm really looking forward to the rest of MS Igloo 2.

I remember reading once that the original line of model kits, "Mobile SUIT Variation" (which featured things like tank Zakus and recon Zakus) was originally Tominos idea, after a request from Bandai to expand their range of model kits. I suspect the trend for multiple variations of recent mecha can be traced back to that.

And that's fine. Upgraded and custom Zakus, Rick Doms, and GMs make perfect sense. But no one's saying that the Full-Armor Gundam saw any action during the show, it's just a cool design. Unlike, say, the RX-78-3 and RX-78-4, which later actually DID show up in a comic.

For a while, Sunrise was very careful not to mess up the line of continuity from the RX-78-2 Gundam to the RX-178 Gundam Mk. II. The Alex never officially "debuted," and probably got lost in the shuffle after the war; the existence of the GP01, 02, and 03 was suppressed; but what about all the others that have come out since? By all rights, the RX-178 should be known as the Gundam Mk. XXII or something.

[kung flu]

Anyway, ll the Zeon soldiers talk about the Gundam being so fearsome, but if you've got the RX-78-3 and RX-78-4 up in space, the RX-78-6 slicing through Zakus in Zeonic Front, Mass-Produced RX-79s running around in the jungle, three Blue Destiny Gundams swatting Zeon cruisers like flies, and countless others...well, jeez, why is the White Base so important? And why did the Federation bother with the vastly inferior GMs?

You got a very good point there. I always think of the gundam as something similar to a german tiger tank, in which not many were made but was feared by all and were not in use in every battlefield. Given the size of the area the one year war took place, gundams were probably rarely encountered on many of the battles thought on earth and space. People would have heard of them but wouldn't have encountered one. Thats what i think anyway. And yeah its does mess with continuity with the first show, but given the direction in which gundam is heading with all the alternate shows, I welcome all stories and concepts that go back to UC.

[F-ZeroOne]

Of course, continuity messing is not exactly new to Gundam. Gundam Sentinel, for example, was originally a standalone series designed to promote some really cool model kits but was later incorporated into the time-line officially. And Bandai recently made a big effort to "harmonise" the names of the various organisations and characters across the timeline, presumably to ease international marketing. When I were a lad, it were a "ZAK" (Zion Air Kommand), not "Zaku"... [1] And you could take your pick between Zion, Zeon (the "official" one now, but which always reminds me of a cheap digital watch), Jion, Gion...

I wonder if what sometimes bugs us old-time Gundam fans is a perception that the new shows lack an "integrity" of sorts. I'm not sure if thats the right word for it, but I think its the closest I can get to explaining that, whilst having enjoyed a number of the spin-offs, they sometimes make me itchy.

[1] As explained in a comprehensive article in Anime UK magazine by Dafydd Neal Dyar, who stated he got this from a Japanese source. That article used a number of translations that, AFAIK, were unique to the article and sometimes causes me to think, "Jaburo? Wait, thats not right... "

Link to Dafydds on-line Gundam articles, mainly about life in a Space Island Development Envelope: http://www.dyarstraights.com/msgundam/frontier.html

Edited January 25, 2009 by F-ZeroOne

[Gubaba]

Of course, continuity messing is not exactly new to Gundam. Gundam Sentinel, for example, was originally a standalone series designed to promote some really cool model kits but was later incorporated into the time-line officially. And Bandai recently made a big effort to "harmonise" the names of the various organisations and characters across the timeline, presumably to ease international marketing. When I were a lad, it were a "ZAK" (Zion Air Kommand), not "Zaku"... [1] And you could take your pick between Zion, Zeon (the "official" one now, but which always reminds me of a cheap digital watch), Jion, Gion...

I wonder if what sometimes bugs us old-time Gundam fans is a perception that the new shows lack an "integrity" of sorts. I'm not sure if thats the right word for it, but I think its the closest I can get to explaining that, whilst having enjoyed a number of the spin-offs, they sometimes make me itchy.

[1] As explained in a comprehensive article in Anime UK magazine by Dafydd Neal Dyar, who stated he got this from a Japanese source. That article used a number of translations that, AFAIK, were unique to the article and sometimes causes me to think, "Jaburo? Wait, thats not right... "

Link to Dafydds on-line Gundam articles, mainly about life in a Space Island Development Envelope: http://www.dyarstraights.com/msgundam/frontier.html

Fitting something into continuity is fine, wrecking continuity is a different subject. Gundam 0080 fits into the timeline perfectly well, 08th MS Team doesn't.

I have to say that I've never heard "Zion Air Kommand" before...weird. But before 2001, there were no "official" romanizations for the names in Gundam, except in the translation of the novels. Some of those (like "Zeon") stuck, some of them ("Zak," "Vig Zam," "Sha Aznable") didn't. The translator includes a little note in the revised 2004 reissue of the novels to the effect that "Bandai finally realized they were sitting on a multi-million dollar international franchise, and finally decided they should figure out how these names should be spelled.") I'm fine with most of them (especially "Zeon," because "Jion" sounds dumb in English, and "Zion" has too much political/religious significance). "M'Queve" is a little too baroque, but I could never figure out a way to romanize his name that would give English speakers any clue on how to pronounce it. Generally, whoever they got to come up with the official spellings (I'm guessing it was Mark Simmons) did a good job with a bunch of names that sound generally ridiculous.

So I wouldn't call the Anime UK versions definitive. Anime UK, Animag, Animerica, C/FO, Baycon summaries...all of them used different romanizations. That some English speaking fans got attached to certain spellings that later didn't "make the cut" is kind of unfortunate, but whacha gonna do?

[kung flu]

Fitting something into continuity is fine, wrecking continuity is a different subject. Gundam 0080 fits into the timeline perfectly well, 08th MS Team doesn't.

I don't mind if the continuity is messed up, as long as its set in the UC universe. Continuity in UC has been messed about a few times, for first gundam we have the continuity for the TV show and the movies. The same can be said for Zeta. The main continuity for me is the shows made by Tomino, while side stories, games and all that jazz are just extras, exploring what could have been or what if?

[yellowlightman]

Fitting something into continuity is fine, wrecking continuity is a different subject. Gundam 0080 fits into the timeline perfectly well, 08th MS Team doesn't.

0080 has other problems though. Like the extraneous amount of new MS designs they threw in, which comes back to the problem of how Zeon and the Federation managed to produces some 200+ different types of MS during the OYW.

[Gubaba]

0080 has other problems though. Like the extraneous amount of new MS designs they threw in, which comes back to the problem of how Zeon and the Federation managed to produces some 200+ different types of MS during the OYW.

True. And the related problem that most of those new MS designs would blow away anything from Zeta or Double Zeta without breaking a sweat.

But that can be chalked up to a different art style and ignored. Since the crew at the beginning of 08th MS Team were watching Gihren's "Why did Garma die?" speech, I'm assuming that story takes place around episode 12 or 13 of the original series, which is way too early for the Federation to have any mobile suits beyond the ones on White Base. And that's a plot gaffe that's hard to overlook.

(Although, quite honestly, I probably would overlook it if I actually liked the 08th MS Team. Macross Zero likewise brought in a host of continuity issues, but I enjoyed it, so I'm willing to harmonize them if I can, and ignore them if I can't.)

[Lynx7725]

Fitting something into continuity is fine, wrecking continuity is a different subject. Gundam 0080 fits into the timeline perfectly well, 08th MS Team doesn't.

FWIW, 0080 played merry hell with the technical continuity (as mentioned, a lot of the 0080 MSes could kick Zeta-era MSes...) and there were some timeline issues as well, but it's a good story, and good animation.

0083 surprisingly had very good technical continuity (you have to dig around a bit to appreciate this) but IMO not so great timeline and event continuity. Too much "reset button" mentality to that.

08MST falls somewhere in between. It's ok story-wise, technically a bit wonky -- although we can explain away the Gundams as limited production prototypes, it didn't make perfect sense, nor does it explain away the crowds of GMs when they should be very rare. Again, it's a decent story.

Of the lot, 0080 is probably the best in keeping it in-line and having a good story. Of course, that also inevitably mean it's one of the lesser known series as compared to the other two...

[yellowlightman]

True. And the related problem that most of those new MS designs would blow away anything from Zeta or Double Zeta without breaking a sweat.

I've actually heard the reason why 0080 brought out so many variations was because Bandai insisted on them being designated as entirely new units to sell more kits, originally the design staff had just planned on them being retcons of existing designs. Not sure how true it is, but it makes a fair amount of sense.

Ultimately I don't think any of the spin-offs manage to get away without messing up the continuity in some way, but I think that has a lot to do with trying to make an "epic" story (the colony drop in 0083) or other outside pressures of development. MS Igloo manages to do a fairly good job of it though, but the flipside of that is that the stories are largely inconsequential. Which is actually a good thing, for the most part.

[F-ZeroOne]

I have to say that I've never heard "Zion Air Kommand" before...weird. But before 2001, there were no "official" romanizations for the names in Gundam, except in the translation of the novels. Some of those (like "Zeon") stuck, some of them ("Zak," "Vig Zam," "Sha Aznable") didn't. The translator includes a little note in the revised 2004 reissue of the novels to the effect that "Bandai finally realized they were sitting on a multi-million dollar international franchise, and finally decided they should figure out how these names should be spelled.") I'm fine with most of them (especially "Zeon," because "Jion" sounds dumb in English, and "Zion" has too much political/religious significance). "M'Queve" is a little too baroque, but I could never figure out a way to romanize his name that would give English speakers any clue on how to pronounce it. Generally, whoever they got to come up with the official spellings (I'm guessing it was Mark Simmons) did a good job with a bunch of names that sound generally ridiculous.

So I wouldn't call the Anime UK versions definitive. Anime UK, Animag, Animerica, C/FO, Baycon summaries...all of them used different romanizations. That some English speaking fans got attached to certain spellings that later didn't "make the cut" is kind of unfortunate, but whacha gonna do?

Oh, I'm sure they weren't - but its like imprinting, the first thing you see colours your thinking.

[VFTF1]

Darn it.

I wanted to watch the Gundam movie - the 0079 movie - the one that supposedly compiles together the original Gundam show.

Why?

Because I'm feeling that I won't be able to make it through the whole series.

But accidentaly, I got Gundam 0079 Igloo. It's kind of cheesy. I don't like CGI people - although I admit these are very well rendered and retain an "anime" like characterization... but still... I prefer artist's renditions.

Um...so...what is the name - the exact name - of the original Gundam movie?

Pete

[Gubaba]

Darn it.

I wanted to watch the Gundam movie - the 0079 movie - the one that supposedly compiles together the original Gundam show.

Why?

Because I'm feeling that I won't be able to make it through the whole series.

But accidentaly, I got Gundam 0079 Igloo. It's kind of cheesy. I don't like CGI people - although I admit these are very well rendered and retain an "anime" like characterization... but still... I prefer artist's renditions.

Um...so...what is the name - the exact name - of the original Gundam movie?

Pete

Well, there's three...

The first one is "Mobile Suit Gundam I."

The second is "Mobile Suit Gundam II: Soldiers of Sorrow."

And the third is "Mobile Suit Gundam III: Encounters in Space."

[ChrisG]

I've actually heard the reason why 0080 brought out so many variations was because Bandai insisted on them being designated as entirely new units to sell more kits, originally the design staff had just planned on them being retcons of existing designs. Not sure how true it is, but it makes a fair amount of sense.

Ultimately I don't think any of the spin-offs manage to get away without messing up the continuity in some way, but I think that has a lot to do with trying to make an "epic" story (the colony drop in 0083) or other outside pressures of development. MS Igloo manages to do a fairly good job of it though, but the flipside of that is that the stories are largely inconsequential. Which is actually a good thing, for the most part.

You're mostly correct. The new designs aren't 0080's fault because originally they were just modern renditions of old suits. However, Bandai went back and retconned them all into being variations. It's been this way for about 20 years now, but it's not how it was originally intended to be. This is evident in mechanical designer Yutaka Izubuchi's book from the same era that illustrates "photos" from different fronts of the One Year War. When you see what is supposed to be the regular Zaku II, it's his design from 0080, which Bandai later retconned to the Zaku II Kai.

[promethuem5]

Even working with Bandai's explanation of stuff like the Zaku II Kai as a separate model, you could always consider them factory production variants of the same basic design... look at stuff like the Shermans and T-34s in WWII, same basic design, but with lots of differences based on where they were made. Stuff like 08 MS Team, just go with the fact that the Ground Types were built from spare developmental parts, and used in fairly limited numbers, so it's likely that the White Base crew never ever heard about those ground battles.

[sucker4meltrans]

i would love to see another gundam 0080 war in the pocket ova. a simple side story that can avoid two angstry teenagers screaming at each other in giant robots.

[Bri]

Can't remember that much of 0080 except the tragic story and Mikimotos character designs which were great.

Strange that the 2 good OVAs had Macross involvement with Kawamori doing mecha design for 0083. Clearly that is the reason why 8th MS failed

[kung flu]

I didn't really like 0083 much, seemed a bit rushed and messy at times and the plot was too far fetched with events poping out of nowhere that didn't seem to match the rest of the show like Nina having a previous relationship with Gato (where the hell that come from?). Also the ending about covering up the existance of the gundams was stupid, considering the public braodcast of the captured GP02 by Delaz earlier on in the series etc..........

The good thing about the show is the mecha designs and battles. The same for 08th ms team, just good old mech action, but week plot and story.

[Lynx7725]

Even working with Bandai's explanation of stuff like the Zaku II Kai as a separate model, you could always consider them factory production variants of the same basic design... look at stuff like the Shermans and T-34s in WWII, same basic design, but with lots of differences based on where they were made.

Problem with that line of thought was that the Shermans and T-34 were gradual improvements at best, manufacturing differences at worst (or minimum). The 0080 retcon was a technical disaster. Whoever did it was sleeping, really, as they piled so much power into the frames... well, for example, when I was back on the GML, we basically toyed with some figures, the Gelgoog Jaegar was so powerful, it would have ran rings around Zeta-era MS. And you don't see them in Zeta..

It's not a big issue if it's a one-off show, but 0083 complicate the matter by basing their MS off the 0080 MS. In some cases it was good, the Gelgoog Marine was a downgrade of the Jaegar, but overall 0080 just made a mess of the technical continuity.

(But that's still forgivable, considering the story was solid, and that 0083 messed up even more... )

Can't remember that much of 0080 except the tragic story and Mikimotos character designs which were great.

I think that's the hallmark of a good show. People remember 0080 for the story, but 0083 for the mecha. I prefer 0080 personally.

I didn't really like 0083 much, seemed a bit rushed and messy at times and the plot was too far fetched with events poping out of nowhere that didn't seem to match the rest of the show like Nina having a previous relationship with Gato (where the hell that come from?). Also the ending about covering up the existance of the gundams was stupid, considering the public braodcast of the captured GP02 by Delaz earlier on in the series etc.........

Let's not go there. The sins of 0083 had be heavily visited many times since its release....

[sucker4meltrans]

at least 0080 and 0083 don't have the sins of recent gundam, teenage boys filled with angst screaming at each other in space. an ova about Cima Garahau from 0083 covering her involvment from the gassing of the colony to exile and life as a pirate at the end of the one year war.

[kung flu]

at least 0080 and 0083 don't have the sins of recent gundam, teenage boys filled with angst screaming at each other in space. an ova about Cima Garahau from 0083 covering her involvment from the gassing of the colony to exile and life as a pirate at the end of the one year war.

Yeah, but 0083 did have two grown men yelling at each other.

[promethuem5]

See, that's my 'problem' as a Gundam fan... I HATE 0080 because I think it's boring as all hell, and I LOVE 0083 with a raging nerdboner because the Kawamori designed mechs are my favorite Gundam ever, and I like the story alot, and how it ties in with Zeta, which is an awesome show in its own right. I also adore 08 MS Team for grabbing at that ground-pounder grunt loving side of me, same reason I like VOTOMS and those designs, their closer to walking tanks than Super Robots.