Gundam Show Thread - MSG thru Witch from Mercury

[GRAND CANNON]

I've always thought IGLOO was great and this new chapter follows-through!

If only there were more storylines centered on the specific side-stories that occur throughout the huge UC universe.

(i.e. follow the Black Tri-Stars, The Batte of Ruum, etc....)

I'd rather have these type of mini-series than a whole new series giving us a brand new alternate universe.

BTW, when is the next chapter due? Anyone know?

[Morpheus]

(Entering confession room)

I never saw the original MSG, should I watch it?

[Roy Focker]

Yes but keep in mind it was animated in 1979 and that it heavily influenced the creators of Macross.

[dizman]

Yeah it's worth a watch, just rent the 3 movies if you can.

[Vifam7]

(Entering confession room)

I never saw the original MSG, should I watch it?

Absolutely. It is one of the most important anime to watch - especially if you like "robot anime" because it influenced a lot of creators (including those of Macross as Focker mentions above).

The 3 "First Gundam" movies (also sometimes called the 'Gundam movies trilogy') will do just fine. It's quicker to watch than the TV series, better composed, better animated, and considered more canon. Not to mention that they are very enjoyable.

Personally, the movies are my 2nd favorite anime of all time. Just below Macross DYRL.

[Morpheus]

Absolutely. It is one of the most important anime to watch - especially if you like "robot anime" because it influenced a lot of creators (including those of Macross as Focker mentions above).

The 3 "First Gundam" movies (also sometimes called the 'Gundam movies trilogy') will do just fine. It's quicker to watch than the TV series, better composed, better animated, and considered more canon. Not to mention that they are very enjoyable.

Personally, the movies are my 2nd favorite anime of all time. Just below Macross DYRL.

Ok, I'll contact my fellow Keronian so we can watch together.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Morpheus

[Vifam7]

Ok, I'll contact my fellow Keronian so we can watch together.

Just a word of note. If you can, try to acquire copies that contain the original mono audio track. This probably means you need to find the ancient VHS release by Anime Village (which later became Bandia Entertainment USA) or the recent Region 2 Japanese Memorial Box. Or a torrent mentioning that the show has the "original mono audio".

The US DVD release contains the re-edited 5.1 sound track which almost every Gundam fan despises. You see, a couple of years ago someone fooled Tomino (or Tomino fooled himself) into thinking that it'll be a good idea to change the sound effects and music placement, as well as re-voice the whole thing by bringing back most (but not all since some were already dead) of the original seiyuu cast. All for releasing the movies on the new media - DVD. The DVDs were released as "Special Edition". Think of it in the same way as George Lucas and his Star Wars Episode 4,5,6 "Special Edition". Yeah, fans did not like (to put it mildly). Like the Star Wars movies, the Gundam movies had to be re-released as "Memorial Box" with the original audio track.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Vifam7

[F-ZeroOne]

The original series is still worth a watch, if you can forgive the 70s-era animation, design and disco music. Whats interesting is that you can almost tell the point when Tomino steps up a gear - after reading so much about Gundam for so long, finally seeing the moment where Lalah appears for the first time - chills up the spine, that is.

[kung flu]

I just downloaded and watched MS Igloo 2 epsiode 1, so far the animation is great and the story wasn't that bad either. Great to see the Earth Federation's side of the war, I know its a bit lame considering most Gundam shows have already shown the fed side, but to see it in a "realistic" kind of way makes it seem fresh to me. One thing that puzzles me in Gundam is the technology side of things, humans have advanced so far yet some of their equipment look like WW2 equipment, like that huge radio hand set they were using. Of course this is not just in igloo but in other gundam shows as well. Seems like they're trying to set it in a WW2 setting only with giant robots. The first igloo the characters had german uniforms lol and now the feds have got US uniforms.

[Gui]

First Gundam being an allegory of WW2, it makes sense that some of its designs are inspired by this period

I agree this slightly looks out of place now, but 30 years ago it wasn't as much disturbing than it is now, and we all know how fans hate it when designs evolve too much from one iteration of a show to another...

In the case of First, I'm now used to it; actually, it's always a pleasure to see this now familiar style

[yellowlightman]

Although pretty much every Gundam sequel since 0080 has worked to lay on the WW2 aesthetic, Igloo really takes it to the extreme. The first Igloo series especially, as there were numerous parallels drawn between Zeon and Germany (and not just visually).

[kung flu]

To be honest i think the ww2 German uniforms are more stylish and even their equipment and machines are well designed aesthetically, but to try and make the Zeon more like them is a bit unoriginal. First gundam never really set them out to be German or Nazi, but more like aristocratic europeans.

[yellowlightman]

To be honest i think the ww2 German uniforms are more stylish and even their equipment and machines are well designed aesthetically, but to try and make the Zeon more like them is a bit unoriginal. First gundam never really set them out to be German or Nazi, but more like aristocratic europeans.

Well, it wasn't as overt in MSG, but there are some definite parallels. A blitzkrieg using superior technology and new tactics, turning into a protracted war where the other wise eventually brings it's full production capabilities to bear and slowly crushes an overspread enemy on multiple fronts.

One thing I really loved about Igloo was the more subtle allusions to WW2 Germany. Specifically the bizarre experimental weapon developments and especially the episode with the kids being forced into service in the final days of the war.

[kung flu]

What do u guys think about the ghostly woman in the new igloo? do you think its a personification of death, the guys imagination or some newtype phenomenon?

[Gui]

Well, it wasn't as overt in MSG, but there are some definite parallels. A blitzkrieg using superior technology and new tactics, turning into a protracted war where the other wise eventually brings it's full production capabilities to bear and slowly crushes an overspread enemy on multiple fronts.

[...]

Other parallels include the newtype theory which recalls the aryan creed of the nazi, or the absolute need of Zeon for more vital space and material ressources which finds its equivalent in the german Anschluss on Austria in 1938, and there's more...

Edited November 23, 2008 by Gui

[VFTF1]

So - I'm watching the original Mobile Suit Gundam. Here is my first impression:

Pete

[F-ZeroOne]

Kill 'em All. Its not so much a nickname, as a way of life. Or death.

(Incidentally, its not just that colony - Tomino killed half the human population of the solar system by the start of the first episode. Presumably, they couldn't find enough animators. )

Edited January 11, 2009 by F-ZeroOne

[promethuem5]

Is the new MSIgloo 2 anything like 08th MS Team? That was always my favorite for the line-soldier perspective of the war on Earth (at least for the first few eps.)

[yellowlightman]

Is the new MSIgloo 2 anything like 08th MS Team? That was always my favorite for the line-soldier perspective of the war on Earth (at least for the first few eps.)

Igloo is what should 8th MS Team should have been, until they ruined it by giving everyone Gundams.

[Gubaba]

Is the new MSIgloo 2 anything like 08th MS Team? That was always my favorite for the line-soldier perspective of the war on Earth (at least for the first few eps.)

Coincidentally, I just started MS Igloo 2 last night...

There are no Gundams ("mass produced" or otherwise), there are no "cute" characters, there's no tidy little message about how, with effort and teamwork, ANYTHING is possible!, there are no enthusiastic young people talking about how beautiful the earth is or about the songs they wrote, and there's nothing that breaks established continuity into pieces, never to recover.

In other words, it's nothing like the 08th MS Team.

[jwinges]

Help!

Does anybody know of a good high quality subbed version of double Zeta Gundam? I have a bootleg version but its very poor video quality..Subs are that bad though. The quality of the version I have is nerly unwatchable on my new LCD TV.

Was there a british subtitled release?

[VFTF1]

So...more impressions of the Mobile Suit Gundam series as I watch it...

Mobile Suit Gundam is what happens when you ONLY rescue people from the old folks home and an orphanage and forget to bring lots of cute hot young girls who sing and giggle with you into space.

Seriously - I just couldn't help but notice how depressed the civilians on the White Horse are compared to the citizens of the Macross. In both cases, provisions were nearly non-existent and supplies were short; and yet the civilians on the Macross decided to try and rebuild civilization and it blossomed due to the effort.

Granted, the civilians on the White Horse have a much shorter journey, and I understand their frustrations, what with them pretty much flying around Earth and apparently being unable to get into Federation space (which brings me to the question - just exactly how BIG is Zeon Earth space? The white horse isn't exactly ...you know - slow - and a commercial jetliner can make it to the other side of the world within about 24 hours...

But anyways - I digress. Every time they show civilians, they are old people with crusty faces, no food, bandages and lying in bed hopeless. That, or griping and making demands of Mr. Bright.

What a difference when compared to the Macross civilians.

So remember kids: If you are going to get stranded in space on a big space ship while chased by enemy space ships in all out horrible war: DO NOT FORGET TO BRING HOT GIRLS WHO CAN SING.

Pete

[F-ZeroOne]

I can sort of answer some of this - from the Earth to the Moon with current (well, 1960s technology) takes about three days. Presumably, the White Base has Minovsky/Tokamak engines and can keep up a constant thrust for longer (I just know someone is going to point out the problems of sustained high-Gs etc...!), so could do it quicker, but they're often shown as being in zero-G on-board a lot of time so maybe they coast a lot.

Also, the White Base was used as a distraction for Zeon forces by the Federation, so they were rarely taking the direct route home.

Many of the "middle" generation have been killed in the war, which is why there are so many really young and old folks around... note this isn't canon, personal theory, but it does kind of fit the background.

Incidentally, Bright is the awesome.

Edited January 13, 2009 by F-ZeroOne

[VFTF1]

Well - yes - I do agree that Mr. Bright (I love how they call him that!) is actually one of the best leader figures I've ever seen in just about any show.

And your theory as to why there are only children and old people sounds pretty logical.

But this STILL doesn't change the fact that a couple of hot singing lasses would go a long way to make life bearable.

Also - another difference between Gundam and Macross:

Macross gives us nude Minmey shower scene while Gundam gives us... nude Charr shower scene.

Tomino couldn't have made this show more depressing if he had tried

(aka: All hot girls and middle generation is DEAD. Only whiney kids and even whinier old folk are alive, and the only erotic scenes will be of a blond Zeon pilot showering with the door partially open while his very close girly-man friend waits for him nearby, playing with a lock of his clearly blow-dried hairdo...).

Truly a DARK DARK vision of human existence....

Pete

Edited January 13, 2009 by VFTF1

[Vifam7]

You'd also have to realize the sheer difference between the 2 ships as well. The SDF-1 was mega-sized ship that allowed for an entire city to be built inside. The White Base is a cramped warship which likely has little if any amenties for comfort. Being cooped up in a warship for days on end with little or nothing to do (plus rationed food) would indeed make the average civilian grumpy and restless.

[Bri]

So remember kids: If you are going to get stranded in space on a big space ship while chased by enemy space ships in all out horrible war: DO NOT FORGET TO BRING HOT GIRLS WHO CAN SING.

Pete

Well... there is a reason for this lack of hot girls. It has something to do with occupational hazzards...

Speaking of which:

I just finished Gundam Seed. Heard a lot of bad things about this series but I can't see why. I loved it. It's more character driven then most other Gundams and the cast is a tad on the emo side (Not anywhere near NGE levels). It largely follows the MS Gundam story line with a White base look-a-like ship trying to get to a federation home base.

Kira is the first Gundam main character I actually like. Which is pretty much a miracle since I'd had given up on liking any of them after seeing the UC storyline and the AU series Wing and Zero. The crew of the archangel as a whole works for me.

Andrew Waltfelt is another great addition. This character is a mix of Roy Focker, Hugh Jackman, Fieldmarshall Rommel and an expresso machine.

Seed is does have some weaknesses. Exibit nr1: Lacus Clyne. She annoys me to no end. A one-dimensional trophy girl in outfits that would make a Barby cringe. The Char clone was ok, but his motivations were disapointing once revealed. I had hoped his origens had more to do with the first Coordinator.

And last but not least:

Why does this series insist on killing all the really cool characters: Watfeld (brought back cheaply imo), Mu La Flaga, Natarle Badgiruel and especially Flay Allster...

If I may make a comparions with the Gundam 00. Then I'd say that 00 has the more interesting mecha and story premiss (the paradox of stopping wars with brute force) but Seed has the more endearing characters.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Bri

[promethuem5]

I just finished Gundam Seed. Heard a lot of bad things about this series but I can't see why. I loved it. It's more character driven then most other Gundams and the cast is a tad on the emo side (Not anywhere near NGE levels). It largely follows the MS Gundam story line with a White base look-a-like ship trying to get to a federation home base.

See a big part of the reason Seed sucks is that we /already/ did the MS Gundam storyline... it was called MS Gundam I find Seed's characters much more annoying, especially Kira and Arthas... the mecha designs for Seed are all way too uber-super and ridiculous, and alot of them get way worse as the series progresses. The fact that Seed even has Zakus in it just shows how uninpsired Seed was... I haven't seen anything from 00, and don't like the Gundam designs at all, but I love the Tieren from 00, and think it's a fantastic and original bad-guy generic type.

[VFTF1]

Well, I'm glad Bri has something good to say about Seed Destiny - since I do have that Force Impulse Gundam whining "build me, build me!" and I always tell him "shut up! You're from a lame series - or so they have said"... but if it's just like MSG, only with uber-supped up Mecha then... I guess it COULD be ok - although I was never a big fan of uber-supa Mecha... Although Force Impulse doesn't look all that bad...

Anyhow - I'm just now building HG um...oh...um...HG..um...uh...Sniper-man Gundam...sorry - I literaly totally forgot what it was called...the green sniper one - I have the box like - five feet away but the lights are dim and my butt is too lazy to go check...in any event - 00 Sniper Green Gundam. So far so good - I'm liking this guy lots.

The High Grades are really swift and easy to build... that and I figured I SHOULD complete all o the Celestial Being Gundams, since I've already got 2.5 done ("0.5" being Nadleeh/Naked Virtue)....

After that...who knows - maybe inspired by Bri, I'll build MG Seed Destiny... either thant or I'll build Charr's Zaku - watching MSG is inspiring me to really come to like Charr.

I like his tenacity, his skill, his political/Machiavellian intelligence and his sense of distance and calm. The only thing I don't like about him is his total lack of interest in women and his silly face mask.

Pete

[F-ZeroOne]

Well... there is a reason for this lack of hot girls. It has something to do with occupational hazzards...

Speaking of which:

I just finished Gundam Seed. Heard a lot of bad things about this series but I can't see why. I loved it. It's more character driven then most other Gundams and the cast is a tad on the emo side (Not anywhere near NGE levels). It largely follows the MS Gundam story line with a White base look-a-like ship trying to get to a federation home base.

Seed is does have some weaknesses. Exibit nr1: Lacus Clyne. She annoys me to no end. A one-dimensional trophy girl in outfits that would make a Barby cringe.

If you think Lacus is a one-dimensional trophy girl, wait until you see Destiny...

I enjoyed Seed whilst watching it, but I also found it a little hollow, like a beautifully wrapped Easter egg with nothing inside. I saw Turn-A Gundam shortly afterward and the contrast between the two is fascinating - Seed is like a super highway, direct and efficient but just a little soul-less. Turn-A is the road less traveled - windier, much less direct, but with better views. In my opinion, of course; I know a fellow Gundam fan who thinks I'm insane... For long-term Gundam fans, its "homages" can grate a little bit at times...

Also, Seed violates the Gundam Club rules:

First rule of Gundam Club: Everyone dies.

Second rule of Gundam Club: No-one comes back. [3]

Third rule of Gundam Club: NO-ONE COMES BACK.

[3] Okay, except in ZZ Gundam. We're invoking the directorial insanity clause on that one.

Edited January 13, 2009 by F-ZeroOne

[Bri]

If you think Lacus is a one-dimensional trophy girl, wait until you see Destiny...

I enjoyed Seed whilst watching it, but I also found it a little hollow, like a beautifully wrapped Easter egg with nothing inside. I saw Turn-A Gundam shortly afterward and the contrast between the two is fascinating - Seed is like a super highway, direct and efficient but just a little soul-less. Turn-A is the road less traveled - windier, much less direct, but with better views. In my opinion, of course; I know a fellow Gundam fan who thinks I'm insane... For long-term Gundam fans, its "homages" can grate a little bit at times...

Also, Seed violates the Gundam Club rules:

First rule of Gundam Club: Everyone dies.

Second rule of Gundam Club: No-one comes back. [3]

Third rule of Gundam Club: NO-ONE COMES BACK.

[3] Okay, except in ZZ Gundam. We're invoking the directorial insanity clause on that one.

Just started on Destiny so I'll be able to comment soon if I agree with the general sentiment. It might be that Destiny detracts from SEED, as sequals tend to do. Remember there is no Matrix Revolutions!

Tomino clearly forgot about the 3rd rule of fight club: someone yells "Stop!", goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. I'm sure being blow to pieces is slightly overdoing it . But yes, I see the point. Seed is far more optimistic about human nature then the earlier Tomino directed shows. Maybe that's why I like SEED so much as I enjoy the Kawamoris optimistic take on the human condition in Macross over Tominos darkness in the UC universe. And yes the return of one character was a bit lame in SEED. But then Char has pulled the same stunt, so I guess if a character is GAR enough they can beat death

I have never been heavily attached to MS Gundam so I don't mind that the story gets repeated in SEED. I'd have more trouble with a rehash of Zeta which for me still stands as the best Gundam.

On the overpowered mecha in SEED: I first came in to contact with Gundam in the mid 90s when I saw some Hong Kong Subs of Wing. The mecha of any other Gundam series have seemed far less overpowered. In fact the 00 Gundams seem more powerfull then the SEED ones. It's hard to compare though with nearly all SEED pilots in Gundams being New Types ( ok ok coordinators). While the Celestial Being Gundam Pilots are normal humans and just above average at best. Giving rise to more "fair" fights with ace pilots in Canon Fodder mecha.

[Gubaba]

Well - yes - I do agree that Mr. Bright (I love how they call him that!) is actually one of the best leader figures I've ever seen in just about any show.

And your theory as to why there are only children and old people sounds pretty logical.

But this STILL doesn't change the fact that a couple of hot singing lasses would go a long way to make life bearable.

Also - another difference between Gundam and Macross:

Macross gives us nude Minmey shower scene while Gundam gives us... nude Charr shower scene.

Tomino couldn't have made this show more depressing if he had tried

(aka: All hot girls and middle generation is DEAD. Only whiney kids and even whinier old folk are alive, and the only erotic scenes will be of a blond Zeon pilot showering with the door partially open while his very close girly-man friend waits for him nearby, playing with a lock of his clearly blow-dried hairdo...).

Truly a DARK DARK vision of human existence....

Pete

Yeah...the Char shower scene with Garma hanging out always made me...wonder.

But there are, well, not PLENTY of cute girls on board the White Base, but there are some. Sayla pretty in a bitchy princess sort of way, and Frau's rather cute as well. In Zeta Gundam, Kika turns out to be a bit of a looker, too, although IIRC, she only shows up in one episode.

Still, I think Miharu is probably my favorite, although she doesn't stick around very long.

Still, for relationships, my favorite has to be Ranba Ral and Crowley Hamon. Was she serious when she was flirting with Amuro? Or was it some kind of game she and her husband play? I never quite figured out exactly what kind of "understanding" those two had, but I thought it was interesting.

Oh, and don't worry. Char will notice girls soon enough. Unfortunately, nearly every girl he hooks up with is total jailbait.

[VFTF1]

Well, Frau Beau doesn't really do it for me. Other than her pretentious name (Hi, my name is ATTRACTIVE GIRL!), she is way to "young" and "girly." Ranka was girly, but she was also cute and hot in her girliness. Frau Beau is just girly. As for Syla - I dunno. She's just there. No femininity to her at all. I mean - Misa, despite her crusty exterior, actually exhuded VAST amounts of femininity and was very sexy despite trying not to be. Syla is...not.

Also - the girls all wear pants suit military uniforms which again destracts from their feminitity. I mean, in Macross the girls all had skirts and high heels at least...

RE: Supped Up Powerful Gundams:

The Gundams in OO are more powerful perhaps, but for me, it's not the literal power that is bothersome, but the LOOK. In Seed and Destiny, there were like forty spiky wing things protruding all over the place, the swords were six times the length of the Gundam, the Gunds were also "really big" and it just seemed that everything had to be uber-cool-awesomely exaggerated in terms of design.

Gundam OO doesn't make this mistake - it does not grate the eye. All of the mobile suits are fairly humble in how they look; and this makes their power all the more awe inspiring.

Although - I'm mainly talking out of my bungaloo now because I haven't seen any of SEED or Destiny (just looked at the kits) and have seen very little OO... so these are all just impressions which might be completely wrong.

Finally - remind me...what is jailbait?

Pete

[Bri]

Jailbait in this context is the type of girl R.Kelly or Gary Glitter would interested in

[Black Valkyrie]

Oh, and don't worry. Char will notice girls soon enough. Unfortunately, nearly every girl he hooks up with is total jailbait.

Yep like the pic I made here.

[VFTF1]

Well - now I suddenly have a totally different compehension of Gundam, and of Tomino.

All of the episodes I had watched up to now were Sunrise Dubs; then - all of a sudden - things switched to subs of the original Japanese (which I prefer).

In the Sunrise Dubs, I realized now - I couldn't warm to Amoro because his dub (combined with his hair-do) made me think of...Daniel from Transformers the Movie/Season 3. Yeah - I just couldn't shake the feeling that that was little Daniel there...

Now, with the original Japanese voice, that feeling is gone.

Frau Beau still has a ludicrous name, but she's grown a pair of tits suddenly and keeps winking at Zeons and being all womanly to Amoro.

Albeit - I'm not surprised Amoro only "felt the scent of a woman for the first time" when Matilda showed up, since - as I have noted prior - Frau Beau and Stela (?) just don't cut it...

But neither does Matilda. Leave it to Garma to apparently be the only one in the Gundam universe with a beautiful girlfriend/wife.

Just looking at Garma's girlfriend/wife (I assume that is his girlfriend/wife and not his sister?) makes me want to root for the Zeons. I've noticed that they don't have women soldiers, that their women stay home and dress in beautiful clothing rather than putting on pants and going to war, AND that their pilots are hell bent on sending food and supplies to single mothers with small children.

Meanwhile, the Federation won't EVEN officially help their OWN soldiers - DESPITE the fact that White Horse has Gundam aboard.

As the show goes on, I've got to admit I'm growing fonder of Zeon. And while I think the people on the White Horse are a noble lot; the Federation as such seems like something I'd understand Zeon wanting to declare independence from.

Anyways - War is Wasteland was a watershed episode, in a way, because Frau Beau noticed that she needed to be a woman to Amoro and at least was jealous, Amaro noticed that women exist, and Tomino at least didn't KILL the mother and child (I honestly expected them to perish, given Tomino's record) - but just was content to shatter their dreams, leave their home town a waste land)...

In any event - it is an interesting little drama that's been set up.

Also - this is something which is hard for me to comment on, because I'm really really bad at technical stuff - but I really like just how much of the minute-by-minute plot of the series is dictated by "reality." That is - by the limits that reality places on people - even people who fly giant robots. I like how every minute there's some either ammo running out, gravity screwing with balance, how there's strategy, how there are those Minowsky particles (what are those?) and how there's really a lot of thought put into the workings of these Gundams and the various machines.

I guess what I'm saying is pretty banal, since that's the whole essence of the real robot franchise - but still - as someone brought up on Super robots, for whom the realest it got was Macross (which, let's face it, is also very unreal insofar as it has oodles of gorgeous singing girls who all fall in love with guys like me [minus the variable fighter;)] - Gundam is really more down to Earth and the plot is made more interesting by the attention to detail.

Pete