Which Console? Part 2!

[JB0]

Well after my last 10-minute DOA 4 session (about all I can stand) I shut off my 360 and sent an email off to Microsoft.  I just can't take the drive noise.  However, I know from "life experience" that it's probably in the pitch range that 99% of people won't hear a THING and think I'm nuts.  It really sucks that after 6 months, I finally find one----but can't play it because the drive is so irritating. 

It's not the VOLUME of the sound, it's the sound itself.  It's kind of in the background of the drive's buzz---a shrill whine, like a dentist's drill or a leaf blower.  Not loud, but there, and at the exact pitch that just goes straight through your skull into your brain, that'll give you a headache.

It would suck most of all if they say there's nothing wrong with it, then I have $400 system I can't play.

I dredged up the dedicated 360 thread to ask people to comment on how their 360 drive sounds:  http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...ndpost&p=389920

389928[/snapback]

If worse comes to worst, it's possible to replace the drive.

MS uses a mostly standard DVD-ROM drive.

Catches are

A. it's SATA, and it's darn near impossible to find SATA optical drives.

B. MS uses a proprietary connector.

You might can get around A with an IDE->SATA adapter. 2's gonna require you grab a soldering iron and look for a pinout.

Your trials remind me of my Dreamcast, though.

First thought upon booting it was "Damn, it's broken."

Then people confirmed it's SUPPOSED to sound like they filled the drive with rocks.

Edited April 12, 2006 by JB0

[David Hingtgen]

It's back in the box, going back tomorrow. None in stock in the entire city as of today, so I'll just be 360-less for a while. Maybe I'll try to snag one in June, get a totally different batch--and maybe there'll be another running change. I might just wait until there's some "newer ones are quieter" reports out there.

I wonder if I'll be the first person to actually return a 360 for a refund. (I was the first person at BestBuy to ever return a Slim PS2, because it died after 12 hours) I haven't had very good luck with systems lately. Hopefully my DS Lite will be ok...

[Apollo Leader]

It's back in the box, going back tomorrow.  None in stock in the entire city as of today, so I'll just be 360-less for a while.  Maybe I'll try to snag one in June, get a totally different batch--and maybe there'll be another running change.  I might just wait until there's some "newer ones are quieter" reports out there.

I wonder if I'll be the first person to actually return a 360 for a refund. (I was the first person at BestBuy to ever return a Slim PS2, because it died after 12 hours)  I haven't had very good luck with systems lately.  Hopefully my DS Lite will be ok...

390198[/snapback]

Dude, you must have a REALLY noisy system. In my case, my system sits on a printer cart in front of my entertainment unit. I sit up in my recliner a few feet in front of it. Occassionally I'll here the drive making noise, but it's never enough to be a distraction. Hope you have a new system when Over G Fighters comes out!

[myk]

It just depends on how much of the noise a person is willing to take. My home-built P4 and my 360 are louder than I would like them to be, certainly loud enough to drive Dave over an icy cliff, but ultimately I don't give the noises much attention. Besides, with the jet-engine like noises these systems make, I've grown accustomed to yelling "clear for take-off!" before I turn them on...

[David Hingtgen]

I actually think mine's defective based on how much buzzing goes on and all the other sounds contained within that buzz. However, since it will play games perfectly, I really doubt MS would replace it for "noise". MS responded to my email and told me to call them. As I've said, it's not just the volume, it's the specific noise itself that's so annoying. Even a person with a very quiet voice can have an incredibly annoying voice that's irritating just to hear them whisper---same with my 360.

Honestly I think it'd be easier and quicker to just take it back, get a refund, and buy a different one in the future.

Also, checking yet more on 360 drives, seems the new quieter ones have a much higher failure rate--basically they can't take the 16x loading speeds for long. Also seems they have a higher incidence of being really noisy (they're either really quiet or really loud it seems, with the old drive being in the middle)...

Edited April 12, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[chrono]

I'd say apply some sound insulation, but the 360 runs hot enough as is! And given how you need access to the systems front putting it in a mini-fridge won't help either.

[JB0]

I'd say apply some sound insulation, but the 360 runs hot enough as is! And given how you need access to the systems front putting it in a mini-fridge won't help either.

390299[/snapback]

Sound insulation won't mess it up unless you do something stupid like put it over the air vents. Conduction from the air to the case is responsible for very little of the system's cooling.

Could attach an angled duct to the vent to baffle noise coming out that way without impeding air flow.

[chrono]

Yeah, but why take the chance anyways.

Besides You'd have to put some many holes(tray, connectors, wireless feed, etc) in it that the problems would only be slightly masked for your efforts, unless you went crazy and spent some serious amount of time on it(which I'm sure someone will do & props to 'em for doing it!). I'd just try out an sound damping blanket first to see if it helped any and go from there. It would be a shame to coverup the design though. :/

Gods I wish E3 would hurry up!

[JB0]

Yeah, but why take the chance anyways. 

Besides You'd have to put some many holes(tray, connectors, wireless feed, etc) in it that the problems would only be slightly masked for your efforts, unless you went crazy and spent some serious amount of time on it(which I'm sure someone will do & props to 'em for doing it!). I'd just try out an sound damping blanket first to see if it helped any and go from there. It would be a shame to coverup the design though. :/

Gods I wish E3 would hurry up!

391060[/snapback]

You could actually do a lot to it.

And since we're worried about drive noise, you could put the panels directly on the drive. Might cause thermal issues, though.

[David Hingtgen]

As I've said numerous times, it's not the volume, it's the sound itself. It's a high-pitched whine that pierces all. It could be made 99% quieter, and it'd still bug me. I know what a rapidly spinning drive sounds like (nothing like burning a DVD at max speed), and this is not it. It's the screech of bad bearings or something. It shouldn't be there period.

PS---amazingly, I found SEVEN 360's at K-Mart today. Thought about snagging one, since they'd certainly be a different batch. Then tonight, tornadoes ripped through town and my side of town is pretty much cut off from the other side, and that side is without power.

PPS---I still see a lot of "disc scratching when the console wasn't moved at all" reports. My XB would carve out a circular scratch in almost every game, but it never affected them. And I didn't even BREATHE on that thing... I'm still thinking about waiting for another running production tweak or two before I buy a replacement 360.

I still prefer top loaders----all my PS2 games since I got my Slim PS2 are still utterly pristine, as opposed to the "very faintly scratched just from putting it in the tray a few times" all my others are. PSX games? Perfect for years, until they were used in a PS2. Dreamcast? Not a one is anything other than flawless. XB? All slightly scratched.

[JB0]

PS---amazingly, I found SEVEN 360's at K-Mart today. 

I've been seeing them around here, too.

MS seems to have finally gotten their production up.

I still prefer top loaders----all my PS2 games since I got my Slim PS2 are still utterly pristine, as opposed to the "very faintly scratched just from putting it in the tray a few times" all my others are.  PSX games?  Perfect for years, until they were used in a PS2.  Dreamcast?  Not a one is anything other than flawless.  XB?  All slightly scratched.

I haven't really kept score.

Partially because I've got a heap of used games. 'S just not worth tracking which ones were mint originally.

I prefer top-loaders just because the mechanism is simpler. All other things being equal, a toploader will last longer than a tray or slot mech.

...

Of course, the tracking assembly(Sony's machines) and hub motors(Dreamcast) have proven the weak links in recent years, so it doesn't much matter. Pity they can't/won't spend the cash for a high-quality drive mech.

At least MS is using standard drives, so it should easy to fix when the optical drive dies(if my assumptions about the drive using standard firmware are correct). Hard drive'll take a bit more work.

Yes, I expect an uncommon amount of longevity.

[Black Valkyrie]

Ridge Racer-7 for PS3 !

[Gaijin]

Ridge Racer-7 for PS3 !

392330[/snapback]

Beat me to it.

[Rocket Punch]

Ridge Racer-7 for PS3 !

392330[/snapback]

Woohoo! Next-gen power-sliding madness!

[Oihan]

Ridge Racer-7 for PS3 !

392330[/snapback]

Meh, going off that, not impressed. (Awaits some kind of flame)

[Radd]

There really wasn't much there to see. Of course, if you're a big enough fan of a series, every little bit is enough to get you hyped.

[chrono]

RR7. Meh! Olde news. Only thing I like is the potential for online play.

[Gaijin]

PS2 drops to $129. Time for a sales surge to make some extra cash to offset the cost of PS3.

PS2 $129

Edited April 20, 2006 by Gaijin

[mikeszekely]

Ridge Racer-7 for PS3 !

392330[/snapback]

Woohoo! Next-gen power-sliding madness!

392403[/snapback]

Only if it's better than Ridge Racer 6. And even then, not enough to sell me a system.

[Ladic]

Critics Unimpressed with HD DVD

Consumer electronics writers have begun to weigh in on the new HD DVD players distributed by Toshiba this week, and most are unimpressed. Several cite an intolerably long boot-up period, a confusing menu system, and incompatible sound. But nearly all express disappointment in the picture. On smaller sets, the writers agree, the difference between HD DVD and a conventional DVD is virtually undetectable. "Bottom line is that HD DVD is great, but will you notice?" asks Ben Drawbaugh on HDBeat.com. Writing in the Los Angeles Times David Colker remarked that on larger screens he could detect a subtle difference. He added: "I tested my perceptions by switching between the two formats. I asked a colleague to close his eyes while I chose a version, then had him open them and guess: DVD or HD DVD? He got it right only about 75% of the time. So, yes, it's better. But don't expect the dramatic leap in quality that came with the transition from VHS to DVDs in the 1990s."

http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2006-04-20/

[Rocket Punch]

Ridge Racer-7 for PS3 !

392330[/snapback]

Woohoo! Next-gen power-sliding madness!

392403[/snapback]

Only if it's better than Ridge Racer 6. And even then, not enough to sell me a system.

392729[/snapback]

Who in their right mind would buy a PS3 because of RR7?

[Mr March]

Critics Unimpressed with HD DVD

Consumer electronics writers have begun to weigh in on the new HD DVD players distributed by Toshiba this week, and most are unimpressed. Several cite an intolerably long boot-up period, a confusing menu system, and incompatible sound. But nearly all express disappointment in the picture. On smaller sets, the writers agree, the difference between HD DVD and a conventional DVD is virtually undetectable. "Bottom line is that HD DVD is great, but will you notice?" asks Ben Drawbaugh on HDBeat.com. Writing in the Los Angeles Times David Colker remarked that on larger screens he could detect a subtle difference. He added: "I tested my perceptions by switching between the two formats. I asked a colleague to close his eyes while I chose a version, then had him open them and guess: DVD or HD DVD? He got it right only about 75% of the time. So, yes, it's better. But don't expect the dramatic leap in quality that came with the transition from VHS to DVDs in the 1990s."

http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2006-04-20/

392733[/snapback]

This is what concerns me. I think most consumers will be unable to tell the difference between HD and regular DVD due to lack of high end audio/video equipment in the average home. As a result, they may skip the HD and Blue Ray formats altogether, in which case those of use waiting for a good high end format will be forced to wait until the market is ready . THis could be many years down the road.

[chrono]

Ridge Racer-7 for PS3 !

392330[/snapback]

Woohoo! Next-gen power-sliding madness!

392403[/snapback]

Only if it's better than Ridge Racer 6. And even then, not enough to sell me a system.

392729[/snapback]

Who in their right mind would buy a PS3 because of RR7?

392758[/snapback]

The same ones who bought a 360 just for the next Halo game and the same ones that will buy the Revolution for their Zelda fix. There's only one thing that the console company really get. Consumer stupidity = More money.

Mr. March, yep! I've not a single reason to 'upgrade' any of my AV equipment. Broadcast TV is crap. Sat. & Cable are nearly as bad and they are gouging the consumer by raising the rate charges.

[Rocket Punch]

Who in their right mind would buy a PS3 because of RR7?

392758[/snapback]

The same ones who bought a 360 just for the next Halo game and the same ones that will buy the Revolution for their Zelda fix. There's only one thing that the console company really get. Consumer stupidity = More money.

Mr. March, yep! I've not a single reason to 'upgrade' any of my AV equipment. Broadcast TV is crap. Sat. & Cable are nearly as bad and they are gouging the consumer by raising the rate charges.

392799[/snapback]

Goddamn I love capitalism!

[Zentrandude]

Seeing that hd-dvd is comming out now wheres blue-ray at now?

[JB0]

This is what concerns me.  I think most consumers will be unable to tell the difference between HD and regular DVD due to lack of high end audio/video equipment in the average home.  As a result, they may skip the HD and Blue Ray formats altogether, in which case those of use waiting for a good high end format will be forced to wait until the market is ready .  THis could be many years down the road.

392791[/snapback]

It'll live on, just as a "specialized" market.

SACD and DVDAudio certainly haven't damaged the CD, but they aren't dead either. They just only sell to audiophiles.

[Gaijin]

Seeing that hd-dvd is comming out now wheres blue-ray at now?

392833[/snapback]

HD DVD was "launched" on 3-28 (delayed from Nov/Dec 2005) with Toshiba's 2 players and 3 titles. Blu-ray's launch still is summer with May 23rd being the date the first titles are released, with Samsung's player probably making it to market first followed by Sony, Pioneer, and Panasonic players.

HD DVD's biggest advantage was the 6 month window to themselves...which has shortened to about a month. You choices are a Toshiba or a Toshiba. Or an RCA which is a re-badged Toshiba.

And Sony does understand that the average consumer won't upgrade their DVD players just yet...this is why BD is in PS3. People willl get Blu-ray with their system and are more likely to start going that route at first rather than buying a stand alone player.

SACD and DVD Audio were never really marketed...expect a lot more coming out this time around in regards to Blu-ray/PS3 advertising. HD DVD...well, they (Tosh) did run a couple promo style ads...the 360 add on will give it a slight boost and awareness...other than that...............

Edited April 21, 2006 by Gaijin

[JB0]

SACD and DVD Audio were never really marketed...

Because there was no mass marketability.

The average consumer can't tell the diffrence between an audio CD and a low-bitrate MP3, much less an audio CD and something better.

Mainstream is going the other direction. Download services like iTunes are the future of mass-market music.

[Gaijin]

SACD and DVD Audio were never really marketed...

Because there was no mass marketability.

The average consumer can't tell the diffrence between an audio CD and a low-bitrate MP3, much less an audio CD and something better.

Mainstream is going the other direction. Download services like iTunes are the future of mass-market music.

392932[/snapback]

Ummm...why are you telling me which way the music direction went? Yes I think I know that; those 2 were mentioned specifically because they were not marketed... nothing else...both were available before most people even heard of an MP3 and many moons before iTunes took off. They didn't bomb out because of it...they were never even planned as a mass market splash either. They wouldn't have took over even if iTunes and iPods were a bust. People were never looking for better music quality...there is always someone looking for "better video" even if they don't even actually get it but think they did...if they weren't, Monster Cable would have busted (millions of suckers there), High Def TV's would never have started to replace tubes, and we'd still be using RF/Antenna hookups for game consoles.

You will see people downloading video but not like they do music. BD's marketing campaign will shove it down people's throats and is trojan horsed in the PS3. Which is about the way to sell people on a new format they don't understand.

Studios are already cutting way back on quantity of DVD's since the market is dropping out slowly..they do plan on replacing it with the hi def discs...mass video downloading in the capacity people would be expecting (for playback on something larger than a 2-3" screen) won't happen for quite awhile (though there are plans along those lines too).

Edited April 21, 2006 by Gaijin

[Loner]

The guy who runs The Digital Bits posted his thought on how the Hi-Def disc movement might turn out.

[bandit29]

The Xbox 360 will be more quiet and cooler in 2007

Xbox 360 getting new CPU

[JB0]

SACD and DVD Audio were never really marketed...

Because there was no mass marketability.

The average consumer can't tell the diffrence between an audio CD and a low-bitrate MP3, much less an audio CD and something better.

Mainstream is going the other direction. Download services like iTunes are the future of mass-market music.

392932[/snapback]

Ummm...why are you telling me which way the music direction went?

Because it seemed as if you were calling my analogy flawed?

Yes I think I know that; those 2 were mentioned specifically because they were not marketed... nothing else...both were available before most people even heard of an MP3 and many moons before iTunes took off.

Neither was available until well after MP3 became a common buzzword.

MP3 started becoming popular around '95. Napster came out in '99, the same year as SACD. DVDAudio was 2000. Admittedly iTunes wasn't yet relevant, but MP3 was.

They didn't bomb out because of it...they were never even planned as a mass market splash either.  They wouldn't have took over even if iTunes and iPods were a bust.  People were never looking for better music quality...

Because they aren't told to.

EVEYRONE hypes their superior picture yakyak blahblah. Sound is ignored, and people think "cd-quality" is the best there is.

Which is all irrelevant to my point. Which was that there is an established precident for AV-phile-specific media.

High Def TV's would never have started to replace tubes, 

2 diffrent technologies there.

HDTV VS NTSC is probably what you're looking for.

And how long has that transition been taking, anyways? It's only happening at all because the FCC and Congress say it HAS to happen.

Joe Average says that his TV is good enough and his 50$ DVD player is just like the movies. It takes a side-by-side comparison to stand a chance of convincing him otherwise.`

[David Hingtgen]

2007? That's a long ways off. Especially with Energy/Over-G Air Force coming in June. Still, seeing as how I really hate the 360's noise, I might just wait for the PS3 and buy it with my now-returned 360 money, then get a 360 in 2007.

[Gaijin]

SACD and DVD Audio were never really marketed...

Because there was no mass marketability.

The average consumer can't tell the diffrence between an audio CD and a low-bitrate MP3, much less an audio CD and something better.

Mainstream is going the other direction. Download services like iTunes are the future of mass-market music.

392932[/snapback]

Ummm...why are you telling me which way the music direction went?

Because it seemed as if you were calling my analogy flawed?

Yes I think I know that; those 2 were mentioned specifically because they were not marketed... nothing else...both were available before most people even heard of an MP3 and many moons before iTunes took off.

Neither was available until well after MP3 became a common buzzword.

MP3 started becoming popular around '95. Napster came out in '99, the same year as SACD. DVDAudio was 2000. Admittedly iTunes wasn't yet relevant, but MP3 was.

They didn't bomb out because of it...they were never even planned as a mass market splash either.  They wouldn't have took over even if iTunes and iPods were a bust.  People were never looking for better music quality...

Because they aren't told to.

EVEYRONE hypes their superior picture yakyak blahblah. Sound is ignored, and people think "cd-quality" is the best there is.

Which is all irrelevant to my point. Which was that there is an established precident for AV-phile-specific media.

High Def TV's would never have started to replace tubes, 

2 diffrent technologies there.

HDTV VS NTSC is probably what you're looking for.

And how long has that transition been taking, anyways? It's only happening at all because the FCC and Congress say it HAS to happen.

Joe Average says that his TV is good enough and his 50$ DVD player is just like the movies. It takes a side-by-side comparison to stand a chance of convincing him otherwise.`

393166[/snapback]

um k

Edited April 23, 2006 by Gaijin

[Apollo Leader]

Nintendo Revolution renamed "Wii" (pronounced "we"). And here's Nintendo's announcement.

So if Wii does bad in sales, Nintendo's detractors will say, "...and Nintendo cried wii, wii, wii all the way home!"

Unique name, but since the Revolution name has been pushed for a year now and even has had a physical case that has been publicly been shown with it, I think it's a mistake to change the name after the gaming public has had a year for the name Revolution to sink in.

Edited April 27, 2006 by Apollo Leader