Which Console? Part 2!

[Black Valkyrie]

Nice, who cares Sony ripped Nintendo before with analog stick and rumble idea. Btw is that Anakin with his Nintendo-mechno hand

Edited May 9, 2006 by Black Valkyrie

[JB0]

Its a good thing they removed the vibration from the pad.

397973[/snapback]

Why?

Also, I'm not certain if the plague has spread here yet, but I'm already seeing lots of people in other forums claiming this announcement about the PS3 controller as proof-positive on the downfall of Nintendo, saying that the PS3 controller will do everything the Wii controller does.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all I've seen so far is that the PS3 controller will have tilt functionality, basically like some GBA games have, and not the full motion/pointer functionality of the Wii remote.

PS3 is slated to have a full 6 axes of motion, just like the Wii Wand.

Unfortunately, the wand is far better suited to utilizing them than the NES-paradigm 2-handed pad. 2 axes are nearly impossible to use(z-rotation IS impossible, and x-rotation may as well be, IMO), and the x,y,z-position axes are gonna be more cumbersome since you have to wave both hands in sync instead of just your dominant hand. They would've been better off if they HAD stuck with just a y-rotation tilt sensor.

[Apollo Leader]

Grand Theft Auto IV on Xbox 360!

Scroll all the way to the botom (yeah I'm watching Gamestop and that other site suimultaneously).  Besides Halo 3, Microsoft has definitely made a coup here with getting GTA IV with exclusive downloadable episodic materials.

(I reread things again and I think its just some of the download stuff that will be exclusive, but still its cool )

398101[/snapback]

More about GTAIV on the 360, it will be FIRST on the 360 before the PS3.

[Apollo Leader]

HALO 3 ANNOUNCEMENT TRAILER ON XBOX LIVE MARKETPLACE!

I wish I were home right now to download it...

398093[/snapback]

The Halo 3 trailer was shown at the very end of Microsoft's conference. Coming in 2007... guess we'll see if it comes out before or after the movie. At least I can get some of my Xbox 1, Halo 2 playing friends to start saving up for a 360!

Looks like MS had a pretty solid showing.

[Black Valkyrie]

Its a good thing they removed the vibration from the pad.

397973[/snapback]

Why?

398110[/snapback]

Didn`t like it and didn`t feel comfortable with it.

[Apollo Leader]

HALO 3 ANNOUNCEMENT TRAILER ON XBOX LIVE MARKETPLACE!

I wish I were home right now to download it...

398093[/snapback]

The Halo 3 trailer was shown at the very end of Microsoft's conference. Coming in 2007... guess we'll see if it comes out before or after the movie. At least I can get some of my Xbox 1, Halo 2 playing friends to start saving up for a 360!

Looks like MS had a pretty solid showing.

398115[/snapback]

Halo 3 Announcement at Bungie.net. Has the trailer there, too... downloading as I speak.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Apollo Leader

[JB0]

I don't understand all the hate for the PS2 controller. It's got all the great features of the SNES controller, plus 2 extra shoulder buttons & analog sticks!

398036[/snapback]

That's the PROBLEM.

They kept Select. WTF?

They glued handles on at random. Poorly-angled and poorly-sized handles.

They glued a second set of shoudler buttons on. Which was their (second) dumbest idea ever.

They carved fangs into the d-pad, and then made it too stiff to be comfortable.

They glued analog sticks on at random, both in inconvenient locations. Even the ignornat masses thought the PS2 should have moved left analog to the d-pad.

Then put buttons under the sticks, whcih trumped the shoulder2 buttons for retardedness.

The post-SNES market hasn't seen a lot of controller evolution(the Saturn pad and 3-handed N64 controllers were the last to attempt it).

It's all been about gluing random crap onto an SNES pad.

As for people ripping people off... let's look at some of the major innovations of the second coming of the video game.

Sega Master System's black console(continued on through Sega's entire pre-Dreamcast line): GCE Vectrex, "Vader"-style Atari 2600, Atari 5200, Colecovision(all hit around the same time).

Nintendo64's analog sticks: GCE Vectrex/Atari 5200(both hit within a few months of each other).

Nintendo64's integrated 4-player support: 2600 with paddles, 5200 with all controllers.

GameCube's 1st-party wireless controllers: 2600. And yes, they worked very well.

Game&Watch/NES's gamepad: Mattel Intellivision.

PlayStation's pseudo-3D graphics: Vectrex(check out MineStorm's intro if you don't believe me). SNES for the raster-based psuedo-3D crown, despite mode 7's technical limitations. Jaguar for unshaded polygons, unless you really WANT to count StarFox(which was dependent on a very powerful coprocessor to do the calculations). In which case the Jag gets shaded polygons.

The PS and Saturn retain ownership of the texture-mapped polygon crown.

Virtual Boy's true 3D graphics: Vectrex again. Followed by the NES and Sega Master System.

The Virtual Boy retains the crown for INTEGRATED 3D, though.

Wii's motion-tracking controller: Mattel Power Glove. There were a few games that supported the Glove natively(if nothing else, Super Glove Ball), or I'd dismiss it.

Microsoft's download network: ...

Okay, this one's multi-faceted. XBox Live is the first unified integrated standard.

BUT apsects of it are lifted from Dreamcast(integrated internet connectivity),

Intellivision(Mattel had a cable TV game download service YEARS before Sega's Sega Channel and Nintendo's Satellaview satellite TV download service), and

NES(the Famicom Disk System's game purchase kiosks(and their flashRAM cart SNES/GB "Nintendo Power progeny) are similar conceptually to XBox Live Arcade).

Microsoft's integrated save media:

SegaCD? TurboCD? Saturn?

There's a REASON I've always thought memory cards were a ripoff. They're pretty much required, and there's no good reason not to integrate some save media.

SCD and Saturn also supported OPTIONAL memory carts, so let's not hear the tired argument about bringing your saves to a friend's house.

The Playstation/GameCube/Dreamcast "optional" memory card paradigm is no better than if they'd sold you a system without AV cables.

Edited May 9, 2006 by JB0

[JB0]

Its a good thing they removed the vibration from the pad.

397973[/snapback]

Why?

398110[/snapback]

Didn`t like it and didn`t feel comfortable with it.

398116[/snapback]

It was disablable in every game I ever owned.

[Apollo Leader]

HALO 3 ANNOUNCEMENT TRAILER ON XBOX LIVE MARKETPLACE!

I wish I were home right now to download it...

398093[/snapback]

The Halo 3 trailer was shown at the very end of Microsoft's conference. Coming in 2007... guess we'll see if it comes out before or after the movie. At least I can get some of my Xbox 1, Halo 2 playing friends to start saving up for a 360!

Looks like MS had a pretty solid showing.

398115[/snapback]

Halo 3 Announcement at Bungie.net. Has the trailer there, too... downloading as I speak.

398118[/snapback]

Just watched it. Looks great. Can't wait to play it next year!

[David Hingtgen]

Edit:

Check this out from the PS3 press release:

"For use in living rooms, maximum heat and noise reduction has been achieved with a

noise level equivalent to that of the current slim-line PlayStation 2."

So what's MS's excuse for their leaf-blower?

::goes and looks at my pile of DC VMU's:: Hey, some of the later RPG's pretty needed a VMU all to themselves...

PS---I truly hate vibrating controllers, to the point that I often thought about ripping them out---but worried it might somehow mess the controller up if it wanted some sort of feedback/signal from them. I'm glad it's gone.

Also, the vibration motors are the heaviest thing in a controller. Compare a DS to a DS2. The older one is HEAVY, purely because of the motors. The DS2 brought in smaller, lighter motors but it's still heavy for its size--not what you want for long sessions. Get rid of a DS2's motors and I bet it'll weigh exactly what the "surprisingly light" PS3 (DS3?) controller does.

JB0---while it can be disabled, it often defaults to on--and most people who hate vibration (like me) tend to TRULY ABHOR IT, and the one time it does it the first time the game starts up will annoy us for the whole day. And as mentioned above---even if turned off, it still makes the controller weigh twice what it would otherwise.

Also it's a b*tch to find out how to disable it on the 360. Took me 20 minutes, I'm serious. It's NOT in the manual. BTW--the 360 manual is the most incomplete, worthless manual of any product I've ever bought. A pamphlet saying "fiddle around with it until you find out how it works" would actually be better.

I'm still surprised that the wireless (with batteries) and wired 360 controllers seem to weigh about the same, going by how heavy the packages are in the store.

Edited May 9, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[Black Valkyrie]

This is a surprise one :

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/e3_2006/gc/0...mario/ss01.html

[JB0]

Edit:

Check this out from the PS3 press release:

"For use in living rooms, maximum heat and noise reduction has been achieved with a

noise level equivalent to that of the current slim-line PlayStation 2."

So what's MS's excuse for their leaf-blower? 

Lack of engineering.

Especially with the power supply outside the case, there's no excuse for the current situation.

PS---I truly hate vibrating controllers, to the point that I often thought about ripping them out---but worried it might somehow mess the controller up if it wanted some sort of feedback/signal from them.  I'm glad it's gone.

Also, the vibration motors are the heaviest thing in a controller.  Compare a DS to a DS2.  The older one is HEAVY, purely because of the motors.  The DS2 brought in smaller, lighter motors but it's still heavy for its size--not what you want for long sessions.  Get rid of a DS2's motors and I bet it'll weigh exactly what the "surprisingly light" PS3 (DS3?) controller does.

I've never had a weight issue, personally.

...

Except with the Dreamcast. That was due to the location of the weight more than the actual amount.

JB0---while it can be disabled, it often defaults to on--and most people who hate vibration (like me) tend to TRULY ABHOR IT, and the one time it does it the first time the game starts up will annoy us for the whole day.  And as mentioned above---even if turned off, it still makes the controller weigh twice what it would otherwise. 

But the people that like it now have no option at all.

Also it's a b*tch to find out how to disable it on the 360.  Took me 20 minutes, I'm serious.  It's NOT in the manual.  BTW--the 360 manual is the most incomplete, worthless manual of any product I've ever bought.  A pamphlet saying "fiddle around with it until you find out how it works" would actually be better. 

Hardware manuals are as bad as software now? Ewwww.

[JB0]

Whoops, sorry.

Edited May 9, 2006 by JB0

[CoryHolmes]

Wii are not amused.

398043[/snapback]

Heh, at least someone has a sense of humour

[Keith]

Ya 2D or 3D fighters both suck with the standard PS2 controller. The Logitech wireless controller has a good D-pad.

SF3 3rd Strike, Darkstalkers collection, SF (word warrior, turbo, hyper) on the capcom classics collection all seem to work fine on the stanrard dual shock.

[David Hingtgen]

And of course, ASCII/Hori pads beat them all, since they are explicitly designed for 2D fighters... (And quite nicely, too)

[Black Valkyrie]

And of course, ASCII/Hori pads beat them all, since they are explicitly designed for 2D fighters...  (And quite nicely, too)

398280[/snapback]

Indeed and its good that Sega made the Saturn pad for the PC and PS2. Btw check out the wii software video :

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/e3_2006/wii/...e_software.html

[Radd]

While the software video is nice, the most impressive thing I've seen is the E3 video of people actually playing these games, which confirmed the most optimistic impressions I'd gotten from reading the descriptions of the closed door demos given to the press way back when, as well as the descriptions of all the until yesterday unknown abilities of the Wii controller.

[bandit29]

Halo 3 and GTA IV... yawn... two franchises I wish that would die. Final Fanatsy would be another.

The Wii(horrible name) classic controller

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6149763.html

[Seven]

Time magazine had an article on the Wii with interviews with Miyamoto and Iwata of Nintendo.

I find this paragraph particularly illuminating:

"Nintendo has grasped two important notions that have eluded its competitors. The first is, Don't listen to your customers. The hardcore gaming community is extremely vocal - they blog A LOT - but if Nintendo kept listening to them, hardcore gamers would be the only audience it ever had. "Wii was unimaginable for them," Iwata says. "And because it was unimaginable, they could not say that they wanted it. If you are simply listening to requests from the customer, you can satisfy their needs, but you can never surprise them. Sony and Microsoft make daily-necessity kinds of things. They have to listen to the needs of the customers and try to comply with their requests. That kind of approach has been deeply ingrained in their minds."

Makes sense to me... if all they ever listened to were the gaming fanboys that bitch constantly about this and that, it'd end up a pretty damn stagnant industry. I can't understand all the cynicism and bile spewing about this system or that system. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Thank god we have multiple systems out there to even choose from. When Nintendo first came out with the NES, they didn't have bullcrap fanboy whining and they did fine didn't they? When Sony first came out with the Playstation, they also didn't have the "benefit" of an audience base that bemoaned every move they made, and they did fine there too.

In some ways I think the gaming industry suffers from some of the same problems with the movie industry now. Crap stuff like AVP and Fast and the Furious bring in the massive profit feeding this cycle where producers think that thats ALL the audience wants in their movies, so they pump out more similar crap movie sequels for the fanboys like Aeon Flux, Ultraviolet, Alone in the Dark, etc and the really innovative productions struggle. The gaming industry if it were to listen to only the whining fanboys would pump out endless Halo, World of Warcraft, Splinter Cell clones and sequels and truly innovative ideas will fall by the wayside. Wait, that's already happening isn't it?

[Ghadrack]

Nice thoughts, seriously. Thanks for the quote taking a step back and looking at this from a different perspective, the true value of the internet.

[bandit29]

The gaming industry if it were to listen to only the whining fanboys would pump out endless Halo, World of Warcraft, Splinter Cell clones and sequels and truly innovative ideas will fall by the wayside.  Wait, that's already happening isn't it?

398330[/snapback]

Thank goodness for games likeOkami Jp. It probably won't do big numbers in the US since it doesn't involve robbing, maiming or shooting someone

I'll give the Wii a chance though. I don't like the name but its the games that count.

[Apollo Leader]

Halo 3 and GTA IV... yawn... two franchises I wish that would die. Final Fanatsy would be another.

398312[/snapback]

Simple answer, if you don't want them, DON'T BUY THEM. In the case of Halo 3, Bungie is saying that Halo 3 is suppose to be the last game "in the trilogy" so at least you might be getting your wish when it comes to Halo. But both series are immensely popular and continue to put out highly acclaimed sequels (in Halo's case, there's only been two games in the series and there is basically a three year cap between each title so it is far from wearing out its welcome), so why shouldn't the publishers continue to put out sequels. Though some titles eventually wear out their welcome with one too many constant sequels that continue to decline in quality.

I am looking forward to some of the newer franchises such as Gears of War, Lost Planet, and Too Human. Besides all the preexisting franchises coming to the 360, looks like there's plenty of fresh material, too.

Edited May 10, 2006 by Apollo Leader

[Zentrandude]

Halo 3 and GTA IV... yawn... two franchises I wish that would die. Final Fanatsy would be another.

398312[/snapback]

Simple answer, if you don't want them, DON'T BUY THEM. In the case of Halo 3, Bungie is saying that Halo 3 is suppose to be the last game "in the trilogy" so at least you might be getting your wish when it comes to Halo. But both series are immensely popular and continue to put out highly acclaimed sequels (in Halo's case, there's only been two games in the series and there is basically a three year cap between each title so it is far from wearing out its welcome), so why shouldn't the publishers continue to put out sequels. Though some titles eventually wear out their welcome with one too many constant sequels that continue to decline in quality.

I am looking forward to some of the newer franchises such as Gears of War, Lost Planet, and Too Human. Besides all the preexisting franchises coming to the 360, looks like there's plenty of fresh material, too.

398341[/snapback]

Didn't say no spin offs so halo vs whatever is comming. Longs it makes money it will never die just slowly get more hated than the last one.

[Jolly Rogers]

Ya 2D or 3D fighters both suck with the standard PS2 controller. The Logitech wireless controller has a good D-pad.

SF3 3rd Strike, Darkstalkers collection, SF (word warrior, turbo, hyper) on the capcom classics collection all seem to work fine on the stanrard dual shock.

398264[/snapback]

Not to mention all the Soul Calibur and Tekken games.

[chrono]

Time magazine had an article on the Wii with interviews with Miyamoto and Iwata of Nintendo.

I find this paragraph particularly illuminating:

"Nintendo has grasped two important notions that have eluded its competitors.  The first is, Don't listen to your customers.  The hardcore gaming community is extremely vocal - they blog A LOT - but if Nintendo kept listening to them, hardcore gamers would be the only audience it ever had.  "Wii was unimaginable for them," Iwata says.  "And because it was unimaginable, they could not say that they wanted it.  If you are simply listening to requests from the customer, you can satisfy their needs, but you can never surprise them.  Sony and Microsoft make daily-necessity kinds of things.  They have to listen to the needs of the customers and try to comply with their requests.  That kind of approach has been deeply ingrained in their minds."

398330[/snapback]

That is one of the most insulting things to say about your friggin customers! Lets hope those same hardcore gamers don't have subscriptions to Time magazine, oh wait a-minute they're of the age bracket that actually buys that rag. However it's entirely Atypically of the console industry, and most other ones also, to say "Screw you!" to the fans that made them.

Nintendo isn't surprising anyone. They are simply recycling tech into another package and the so heavly intergrating it into their "UPGRADED" GameCube that buyers are being forced to except it. If they are surprising anyone it'll be well after the first 3 years of GC2 games are out and are over overwhelming quality without being the retreaded sequels that have powered their business for years.

----ANYWAYS......------

I wonder if SqarEnix will do a FF/StarOcean game for 'Wii' (GC2). The new controls offer alot of interesting combinations for battles.

[Ladic]

what will be the rpice for nintendos machine?

[therealfolkblues]

what will be the rpice for nintendos machine?

398409[/snapback]

The rumor according to the new EGM is $250, which I feel is a mistake, as that is too high for the "perceived" underpowered nature of the system. It needs to be $200 or less, which ironically is what someone from SEGA is saying that it will be. About all the talk about how this is just barely more powerful than the Gamecube and that Nintendo is "recycling" technology, that is laughable. Nintendo is the only company who CONSISTENTLY makes money on games. Not Sony, not Microsoft. They realize that you can only take graphics so far, and there is no sense in cramming a machine full of ridiculous "specs" that mean next to nothing if the games are either too complex or take 45 seconds of load time just to play. Somebody will drop out after this generation of game systems, especially if Sony is planning on losing $900 million dollars on the PS3 systems just to get them in stores(their forcast, not mine). These companies(Sony/Microsoft) cannot keep losing money like this, and Nintendo is the only one with the sense to realize this. Anyway games are supposed to be fun, and whoever has the most fun games will win..

[Jolly Rogers]

is one of the most insulting things to say about your friggin customers! Lets hope those same hardcore gamers don't have subscriptions to Time magazine, oh wait a-minute they're of the age bracket that actually buys that rag. However it's entirely Atypically of the console industry, and most other ones also, to say "Screw you!" to the fans that made them.

Nintendo isn't surprising anyone. They are simply recycling tech into another package and the so heavly intergrating it into their "UPGRADED" GameCube that buyers are being forced to except it. If they are surprising anyone it'll be well after the first 3 years of GC2 games are out and are over overwhelming quality without being the retreaded sequels that have powered their business for years.

If they haven't been listening to their customers then why are they making their new system a total nostalgia machine? I got a used SNES at a swapmeet for 10 bucks, why should I spend $250 to be able to play the old SNES games?

The only reason Nintendo's alive today is because of the goodwill it has been building over the years with the aging gamer population, and their massive milking of the franchises that are approaching Final Fantasy level of same-old-ness.

[Radd]

I wouldn't take that quote at face value, it seems to me that Nintendo is listening to their fans and the hardcore gaming base, but they are not basing their decisions soley on what those groups are saying. They are deciding when to listen, and when to go their own way. That's smart, if you ask me. Time and again I've been dissapointed to see a great machine, or a great game become totally gimped because of nonsensical "hardcore gamer" outrage.

Video games are a technology dependant industry , and yet when it comes to anything except graphics power most "hardcore" gamers are complete and utter technophobes who fear any sort of change.

[Twoducks]

Two interesting articles about the videogame industry and the next generation consoles:

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/games/manifesto.html

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/games/fanboy.html

While I don't agree with everything, some valid points are made.

[Wes]

I think I'd amend that to don't ALWAYS listen to your customers. It may sound offensive chrono, but it does bring up some good points: think of the crap you hear people say they want. If half of those ideas were relized they would be utterly retarded really.

[Wes]

what will be the rpice for nintendos machine?

398409[/snapback]

The rumor according to the new EGM is $250, which I feel is a mistake, as that is too high for the "perceived" underpowered nature of the system. It needs to be $200 or less, which ironically is what someone from SEGA is saying that it will be. About all the talk about how this is just barely more powerful than the Gamecube and that Nintendo is "recycling" technology, that is laughable. Nintendo is the only company who CONSISTENTLY makes money on games. Not Sony, not Microsoft. They realize that you can only take graphics so far, and there is no sense in cramming a machine full of ridiculous "specs" that mean next to nothing if the games are either too complex or take 45 seconds of load time just to play. Somebody will drop out after this generation of game systems, especially if Sony is planning on losing $900 million dollars on the PS3 systems just to get them in stores(their forcast, not mine). These companies(Sony/Microsoft) cannot keep losing money like this, and Nintendo is the only one with the sense to realize this. Anyway games are supposed to be fun, and whoever has the most fun games will win..

398411[/snapback]

Saying that graphics can only go so far is rediculous - look how far they've come already. It's just a matter of effort to make them over time and profit margin. As things stand now, the Gamecube still has games that look awesome on it. Increasing the specs will probably be enough to keep it in the next gen. market because that grafics to cost margin is still way to high to see any really great PS3 or 360 games that make their games significantly better than the current gens. The Wii is supposed to be based on the GC architecture, like the PS2 was the 1, but that prevented it from being the best graphics system. Nintendo isn't trying for that title, so it's a moot point.

[Radd]

While I don't agree with everything, some valid points are made.

398458[/snapback]

Some of their arguments are ridiculous, some are spot on. At times they asked for more challenging games, with better AI to take advantage of the horsepower beneath the hood of the new systems. At other times they whinged about games not handing out unlimited ammo.

It's too bad their rant against brand loyalty is marred by aiming most of their bile against one company's fan base. They are quite right that such loyalty is often misplaced, and harmful to the industry as a whole.

[jenius]

PS3 = $599? Lemme think... yeah f*ckin' right. I'll buy this three years from now when it's down to $250 and I actually need a DVD player that can play blu-ray discs.