myk Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 I just can't believe the Pony wars are on again. I mean, a decade or two ago if anyone had thought of this they would've been laughed at. I might have to make a decision about my stable...
Lightning Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 like the Mustang's GT-500 version isn't gonna be over-stickered? I mean, c'mon, some of them are selling for $50,000 here! when it's only supposed to cost $40,000-ish, it's really the same prices that the Challenger is gonna be sold for. believe me, Dodge is gonna get it right this time.
myk Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 So, what are we looking at here? I'm assuming that "base" models such as the Z28, R/T and GT (Camaro, Challenger and Mustang respectively), will cost somewhere in the mid $30's, and the higher performance levels approaching the $40's and $50's? I can live with that-the base models anyway...
Lightning Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 actually, a base GT costs $27,000......but i've heard that a base R/T (w/hemi) will cost $32,000. I've heard they're testing the possiblilty of putting in the SOHC 4.7 in the Challenger for a base V8 model...
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 I know its unthinkable right now and especially since Muscle Cars are made in these US companies who aren't really into performance diesels. But.. Looking at the current crop of performance diesels from BMW and VAG and Merc, what would you guys think of stuffing a big forced induction diesel lump into these muscle cars? With a 6 litre turbo diesel, you'll be easily looking at 550+ bhp and 1000+ lbft of torque in _stock_ trim. And it'll still give resonable MPG.
emajnthis Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 VW/Audi make really awesome high performance Diesels (look at LM and you'll see what i mean) but I'm not sure how people would feel about putting an overengineered German motor in an American muscle car. I think for the most part it would just be more hassle than it's worth, but maybe when the models start to show age it won't be so far fetched. As for the Challenger, Dodge shows a distinct history of overpricing their hemi vehicles at least 5 grand over comparable vehicles. You can be sure the Challenger will be at least 45-50 otherwise they'll be cannibalizing on their Viper sales. GT500 is a great car, but i just got the latest road and Track, and the Rousch Stage 3 chimes in at 48k (delivered and fully equipped) with the same 0-60, .3 second slower quarter mile, but totally dumps on the GT500 on the track with a MUCH higher Slalom speed and almost 1g skidpad.
Lightning Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 -snip-GT500 is a great car, but i just got the latest road and Track, and the Rousch Stage 3 chimes in at 48k (delivered and fully equipped) with the same 0-60, .3 second slower quarter mile, but totally dumps on the GT500 on the track with a MUCH higher Slalom speed and almost 1g skidpad. 413864[/snapback] sad, isnt it? a company outside of Ford can make a better Mustang...
reddsun1 Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 Well, when you think about it, the Mustang's never been an exceptional car--at least, from the factory. The Mustang platform has always been derived from other existing chassis bases; the original was based on the econo-box Falcon, after all. It's [arguably] been so popular with enthusiasts due to the fact that its traditionally been such a good "starting point," a platform that's relatively easy to upgrade and improve the performance on.
reddsun1 Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 Goodwood Festival of Speed: "Allan McNish will drive the Audi R10 TDI at the "Festival of Speed" at Goodwood. Le Mans record winner Tom Kristensen will be seen at the wheel of the Bentley Speed 8 in Goodwood, the car that helped him clinch the 2003 Le Mans victory. Richard Petty, the winningest driver in the history of NASCAR, will be reunited with his 1972 Dodge Charger race car."
Lightning Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 well, I wouldn't say "reunited" because he's always owned the car, it was on display at Daytona Dodge during Speedweeks 2006.... I didn't know Bentley won LeMans in 2003, I thought Audi won it....
reddsun1 Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 Some might say it's tantamount to the same thing. Doesn't Audi own Bentley or something? They were supposed to have shared technical information/support on some level, I believe. IIRC, that's why Bentley switched from Dunlops to Michelins, so on and so forth. Conspiracy theorists might even argue that Bentley got "the nod" that year...
David Hingtgen Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) Another car care question, but a simple one: What's the best tire cleaner out there? I want to get a layer of grime off them. (I swear it's been there since I bought them--I'm quite disappointed, and plan to smoke my tires often and never rotate them, so I can get new ones as soon as possible--but in the meantime I want them clean) Willing to scrub like crazy if need be. (Scrubbing like crazy with just car wash helped a bit, but not nearly enough) PS---which (if any) tire places take in used tires for credit? And how much? I've only got 8,000 miles on them. Edited July 6, 2006 by David Hingtgen
emajnthis Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) Bentley is a part of VW that was acquired from BMW several years ago. VW is one of the hugest and richest automakers in the world (hence why they can lose millions on making and selling the Veyron) and have a long list of companies affiliated which include: Audi, Bentley, Porsche, Lamborghini, and Bugatti. Other companies that are under an "Umbrella" so to speak would be BMW, Mini, Rolls Royce Fiat, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo Ford, Jaguar, Lincoln-Mercury, Aston Martin, Mazda, Land Rover, Volvo Dodge, Chrysler, Mercedes, Jeep GM: too many to list, anything in America that isn't under Ford and Chrysler, plus they have Opel and Holden, and recently lost a stake hold in Subaru and i think they lost their stake hold in Lotus awhile back too. The Japanese companies are usually pretty easy: Toyota, Scion, Lexus Nissan, Renault, Infiniti, Honda, Acura Toyota has their hands in a little bit of every company, especially smaller up starts like Lotus, and they are usually responsible behind Hybrid projects for most companies (with the exception of American companies, and soon a few other Japanese automakers plan to develop their own Hybrid technology). I know there are a lot more Umbrella companies but thats what i could come up with off the top of my head, i forgot who owns all of the French companies (peugot, Citroen) but frankly who really cares. Some might say it's tantamount to the same thing. Doesn't Audi own Bentley or something? They were supposed to have shared technical information/support on some level, I believe. IIRC, that's why Bentley switched from Dunlops to Michelins, so on and so forth. Conspiracy theorists might even argue that Bentley got "the nod" that year... 414016[/snapback] Edited July 6, 2006 by emajnthis
myk Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 actually, a base GT costs $27,000......but i've heard that a base R/T (w/hemi) will cost $32,000. I've heard they're testing the possiblilty of putting in the SOHC 4.7 in the Challenger for a base V8 model... Yeah, they'll base at $27K but they always wind up costing thousands more, don't they? I'm betting on mid $30's for the base V8 pony cars. Gotta' get that teflon coating, after all...
Lightning Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 god I hope Nissan buys 20% of GM and fires some people 414109[/snapback] That might save them...
areaseven Posted July 6, 2006 Author Posted July 6, 2006 Another car care question, but a simple one:What's the best tire cleaner out there? I want to get a layer of grime off them. (I swear it's been there since I bought them--I'm quite disappointed, and plan to smoke my tires often and never rotate them, so I can get new ones as soon as possible--but in the meantime I want them clean) Willing to scrub like crazy if need be. (Scrubbing like crazy with just car wash helped a bit, but not nearly enough) 414069[/snapback] You can try Meguiar's Hot Shine Foam Tire Cleaner. No scrubbing is required, unless that layer of grime is pretty thick. It leaves a clean, matte finish once the tire's dry.
yellowlightman Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 GM: too many to list, anything in America that isn't under Ford and Chrysler, plus they have Opel and Holden, and recently lost a stake hold in Subaru and i think they lost their stake hold in Lotus awhile back too. GM owns Saab as well. There was some talk a while back about bringing Alfa Romeo back to the States through GM dealerships, because for a while GM owned part of Fiat. Since then I think GM's gotten out of it's relationship with Fiat and Alfa will be coming over as part of Maserati/Ferrari dealerships. Nissan, Renault, Infiniti, It's the other way around, isn't it? I'm pretty sure Renault owns Nissan.
emajnthis Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 I could be wrong, but from what i'm aware of Nissan is partners with Renault not under any kind of ownership. Because Carlos Ghosn is still the head CEO of Nissan and (since he pulled Nissan out of the hole and back on top) has a LOT of swing with where the company goes. Plus i dont' think Renault is big enough to actually buy out Nissan even if they wanted to.
yellowlightman Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 I could be wrong, but from what i'm aware of Nissan is partners with Renault not under any kind of ownership. Because Carlos Ghosn is still the head CEO of Nissan and (since he pulled Nissan out of the hole and back on top) has a LOT of swing with where the company goes. Plus i dont' think Renault is big enough to actually buy out Nissan even if they wanted to. 414182[/snapback] From Wikipedia: Due to financial problems throughout the 1990s, the French manufacturer Renault bought a controlling share in the company and installed Carlos Ghosn as president, the first non-Japanese person to run a Japanese car company (Mazda was run by an American, Mark Fields and by Briton Lewis Booth and Mitsubishi was run by a German, Rolf Eckrodt).
emajnthis Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 Sweet, I wonder why Renault still makes crap for cars... oh yeh they're French.
Lightning Posted July 7, 2006 Posted July 7, 2006 Sweet, I wonder why Renault still makes crap for cars... oh yeh they're French. 414189[/snapback] I think you hit the nail on the head with the last part of that sentence...
reddsun1 Posted July 7, 2006 Posted July 7, 2006 What about Venturi? They're supposed to be "the French Ferrari" or something, aren't they? Are they considered good cars [as supercars go]?
yellowlightman Posted July 7, 2006 Posted July 7, 2006 Sweet, I wonder why Renault still makes crap for cars... oh yeh they're French. 414189[/snapback] I think you hit the nail on the head with the last part of that sentence... 414215[/snapback] And yet they can still run a car company better than any American and many Japanese companies.
ComicKaze Posted July 7, 2006 Posted July 7, 2006 Is there going to be Top Gear this week? Apparentely, they spent the last few weeks filming in various parts of the American south. Probably muscle car and camaro coverage.
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted July 7, 2006 Posted July 7, 2006 Renault bought 33% of Nissan. Its not quite a majority stake but gives them a lot of say.
yellowlightman Posted July 7, 2006 Posted July 7, 2006 Renault bought 33% of Nissan. Its not quite a majority stake but gives them a lot of say. 414318[/snapback] Read the quote from Wikipedia. It's a controlling share.
emajnthis Posted July 8, 2006 Posted July 8, 2006 Whatever it is, Carlos Ghosn is the real reason Renault/Nissan is even in business. If it wasn't for him both of those companies would cease to exist.
Lightning Posted July 8, 2006 Posted July 8, 2006 Whatever it is, Carlos Ghosn is the real reason Renault/Nissan is even in business. If it wasn't for him both of those companies would cease to exist. 414415[/snapback] nah, they'd still exist, they just wouldnt be doing as good as they are now.
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted July 8, 2006 Posted July 8, 2006 (edited) *deleted* Edited July 8, 2006 by Retracting Head Ter Ter
reddsun1 Posted July 9, 2006 Posted July 9, 2006 (edited) WHAT. THE. F--K?! In a press conference from Chicagoland Speedway just minutes ago, F1 driver Juan Pablo Montoya has announced he will be joining Chip Ganassi Racing for the 2007 season........IN NASCAR NEXTEL CUP?! [hmm, I bet this means a hefty pay cut?] Boris Said from American road racing circles. Then Marcus Ambrose from Aussie V8 Supercars. Now F1 has defectors? To NASCAR? Are these the end days? "--What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff. --Exactly. --Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling. --Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes... --The dead rising from the grave. --Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together--mass hysteria." Edited July 9, 2006 by reddsun1
areaseven Posted July 9, 2006 Author Posted July 9, 2006 That doesn't surprise me at all. Paul Tracy from Champ Car tried out the Busch Series, but didn't do very well. Michel Jourdain, Jr. of IRL and Champ Car also raced Busch and Craftsman Truck Series. There were once rumors of Colin McRae going to NASCAR after leaving WRC, but those were all just that - rumors. Yes, F1 is more money than NASCAR, but how often do you see a winner whose last name is not Schumacher or Alonso, or doesn't drive a Ferrari or Renault? At least NASCAR has more opportunities to win, now that Jeff Gordon's no longer championship material.
reddsun1 Posted July 9, 2006 Posted July 9, 2006 There are some who might say it's just the same horse of a different color over on the other side of that fence; that the "more opportunities to win" is much less applicable unless you're with one of the big multi car outfits like Robert Yates, Joe Gibbs, or DEI, or Evernham, etc. etc...
areaseven Posted July 10, 2006 Author Posted July 10, 2006 There are some who might say it's just the same horse of a different color over on the other side of that fence; that the "more opportunities to win" is much less applicable unless you're with one of the big multi car outfits like Robert Yates, Joe Gibbs, or DEI, or Evernham, etc. etc... 414710[/snapback] It's true that single-car teams have a very slim chance of winning, but at least you don't see the same two drivers win every month.
Phyrox Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 There are some who might say it's just the same horse of a different color over on the other side of that fence; that the "more opportunities to win" is much less applicable unless you're with one of the big multi car outfits like Robert Yates, Joe Gibbs, or DEI, or Evernham, etc. etc... 414710[/snapback] It's true that single-car teams have a very slim chance of winning, but at least you don't see the same two drivers win every month. 414737[/snapback] I was given to understand that Nascar's lack of consistantly dominant drivers was due to the over-homogeneity forced by the rules. F1 has been far from unlimited of course, but Nascar racers are damn near identical. Or so I hear.
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