Aircraft Vs Super Thread! 2

[buddhafabio]

Yes, Langley has been IOCed, so they could go into action at any point.

397607[/snapback]

Oh Joy!

[Nied]

Quickly going back to the F-22, FOX 5 News was just talking about the Raptor at Tyndall AFB and how they plan on probably using them in Iran or N. Korea. I know it's not much since we pretty much know everything about the F-22 but I thought that I just let you guy's know.

397595[/snapback]

Having once lived not far from Phalanx I can say that I always thought Fox 5 was full of crap, and from the sound of it they still are. Tyndal is home of the Raptor Training wing, the squadrons there wouldn't deploy anywhere unless it was an extreme national emergency. The Raptors at Langly (specifically the 27th TFS) are the operation ones, they'd deploy to Iran or N. Korea if needed.

[Knight26]

What you mean a news media source could put out bad information? LOL JK

[Nied]

What you mean a news media source could put out bad information?  LOL JK

397736[/snapback]

Well it is Fox after all...

[Raptor]

Speaking of aircraft...

I got back into Falcon 4.0 (well, Allied Force, which I DL'ed, since my Falcon disc isn't here), but this time I'm kind of good at it, EXCEPT...

All the enemy planes are horrible, horrible bastards with missles that are probably waaaay more accurate than they should be (although I suppose that your missles are pretty damn accurate too helps somewhat... but not much).

Plus, Mig 23's have little or no problem keeping up with an F-16... something's just wrong with that thought...

AND, ONE little nick from a 30mm cannon is enough to take your plane out of combat, whereas it takes a damn good burst of 20mm (at 4-5 times the fire rate, I might add) to take them down, not to mention the fact that they can keep fighting after taking the amount of damage that would force you to eject (ie, engine fire, spinning out of control, all systems down).

...and good luck trying to dodge AMRAAM's or Sidewinders (in dogfight mode against US planes)... because it ain't gonna happen (unless you're damn far away, very, very lucky, or really, really good... flares and chaff don't do nuts).

Of course, doging crappy Russian SAMs and AA missles (30 year-old models) is hard enough...

Edited May 8, 2006 by Raptor

[F-ZeroOne]

MiG-23s are supposedly quite fast, they apparently have a fair bit of thrust:

Russian 30mm guns are meant to be quite powerful; 30mm is quite a big round and there are reports - although I can't confirm them - that the gun on the early MiG-29s would often jam after a few rounds were fired, but the target was toast by then...

[Skull Leader]

Speaking of aircraft...

I got back into Falcon 4.0 (well, Allied Force, which I DL'ed, since my Falcon disc isn't here), but this time I'm kind of good at it, EXCEPT...

Plus, Mig 23's have little or no problem keeping up with an F-16... something's just wrong with that thought...

Of course, doging crappy Russian SAMs and AA missles (30 year-old models) is hard enough...

397763[/snapback]

I could easily see a MiG-23 keeping up with an F-16. Early F-16s(A and B models) can only just barely clear Mach 2 in a dead sprint descending (with no loadout), and the heavier later models I believe are only good to about 1.9 mach, while the MiG-23 can punch up to something like Mach 2.3 in a similar configuration (Russian engines are known for their raw, unadulterated power... especially that Soyuz R-35-300)

As a side note, I recently "found" a copy of Falcon 4.0 AF and I'm still learning to fly. I just recently got to where I can bring the plane back to the ground in one piece... I'm a long way from learning to use the radar or anything like that, much less flying into combat.

Edited May 8, 2006 by Skull Leader

[Raptor]

Well, the radar isn't all that hard to use... well, half the time you just point it at wherever your being RWR'ed from and you'll find them.

It's extra nice when AWACS is available, since you can call it to ask where the bogeys are, and whether the plane you locked onto is friendly or hostile.

The radar is especially easy to use at close range, since you can just set it to ACM, and it'll basically lock onto whatever you're point your plane at.

Plus, for Sidewinders, you don't have to use the radar at all... Just hit "U" (uncage) and it'll point at whatever's hot in front of you (just make sure you can tell it's an enemy before you shoot...lol).

Finding ground targets is a pain though

Also, come to think of it, when an AI F-16 shoots you, you're pretty much out of commision with one little nick, whereas it takes you a GOOD amount of hits to take him down completely. So it's not just because the 30mm is powerful...

And I was complaining that the Mig-23 could keep up in a turning fight... simply no way.

Eventually I got to the point where I was being it in a sidewinder fight 10 to 5... although half of my deaths was because he would have missles when I was out...lol

Edited May 9, 2006 by Raptor

[Skull Leader]

And I was complaining that the Mig-23 could keep up in a turning fight...  simply no way.

397829[/snapback]

Why not? At slow speeds it's got those wings stuck way out there to catch more lift, single, centerline-mounted engine, just like the F-16... probably has a pretty similar roll rate. In fact, I think I'd rather have the MiG than the F-16 in a turning fight. Pretty much ALL of Mikoyan's jets are reknowned as superior turning fighters, and the MiG-23 has a lot of power behind it in the engine to quickly recover lost energy. (David, you're usually better at analyzing stuff like this than I am, wanna jump in here?)

I'm not saying Falcon 4.0 isn't flawed somehow, but rather that in real life, a Flogger vs. Viper encounter at knife range would definately not be a walk in the park. But then, I'm nothing more than an armchair pilot... so my thesis could very easily sink

Edited May 9, 2006 by Skull Leader

[David Hingtgen]

Sorry, MiG-23/27 has always been rather "ignored" by me.

[Skull Leader]

Sorry, MiG-23/27 has always been rather "ignored" by me.

397951[/snapback]

You're fired.

[Knight26]

The MiG-23/27 line has never been that popular amongst enthusists as they are, let's face it, not the sexyist beasts out there. They are however quite capable airframes, and let us not forget that most russian fighters are designed for the close in knife fight. So, with those big swing wings fully out I could see a MiG-23 giving an F-16 a run for its money in a turning fight.

Also in regards to the 30mm cannon, yes a single burst from it is more then enough to disable or destroy an F-16, american planes for the most part are not designed to take that kind of punishment. Warsaw pact aircraft on the other hand are, and can take a lot of punishment, not surprising when they are primarily built for a defensive role.

[Skull Leader]

The MiG-23/27 line has never been that popular amongst enthusists as they are, let's face it, not the sexyist beasts out there.  They are however quite capable airframes, and let us not forget that most russian fighters are designed for the close in knife fight.  So, with those big swing wings fully out I could see a MiG-23 giving an F-16 a run for its money in a turning fight.

Also in regards to the 30mm cannon, yes a single burst from it is more then enough to disable or destroy an F-16, american planes for the most part are not designed to take that kind of punishment.  Warsaw pact aircraft on the other hand are, and can take a lot of punishment, not surprising when they are primarily built for a defensive role.

398100[/snapback]

I'm rather fond of them, but then... I'm like that with most swing-wing designs

[Raptor]

I tried playing against the Mig again... this time I destroyed it every time... lol (when it's you against 4-5 of them that's a different matter though...lol)

And I don't mean a single burst from a 30mm gun, I mean a single damn round. Even the AI's F-16 can take waaay more damage than the player can.

The same thing goes from the AA guns... one lucky shot from a 23mm and they basically take my plane out of combat entirely.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Raptor

[F-ZeroOne]

Okay, couple of things:

1) Its unlikely to be "a" round. Modern automatic wepaons have quite high rates of fire, and even a single barrel cannon is going to have a (in theory, anyway) ROF of at least several hundred rounds a minute.

2) Same goes for 23mm - the standard Russian AA gun of the 80s was the ZSU-23-4, which had four guns mounted on the same chassis.

3) Theres numerous reports of pilots - dating back to WWII - being shot down by either small-calibre rounds or lucky hits. The great Canadian ace "Screwball" Beurling once shot down an aircraft with less than five rounds...

I guess you could debate whether Falcon is being "realistic" or just "mean"...

[Knight26]

The GSh-301, does fire in bursts, as does the 23 mm carried by earlier migs, I will have to see just how many, but I want to say something like 15 round bursts.

[Noyhauser]

Here's an odd story

F-14 Tail found In Ireland

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story...4179&ran=157482

[Skull Leader]

We've had a guy track the tail (I tried to when the story first went public... of the 4 airframes I *thought* it might be from, it turned out to be from none of those, someone else had the skinny on it). It was from an VF-101 F-14A that crashed off of Key West back in 2002. It's been on one hell of a journey.

[Warmaker]

Here's an odd story

F-14 Tail found In Ireland

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story...4179&ran=157482

398530[/snapback]

That's alot of ocean to travel for a broken flight surface. Weird...

[David Hingtgen]

But a big part of the controversy on ARC is how can it look that good? F-14's look like sh*t after 6 months at sea even with constant washing and touchups---how can that tail look better than most line-birds after YEARS in salt water?

::edit:: It was 162594? That's one of my fave Tomcats--one of the last (and best-looking) VF-111 CAG planes. I didn't know it had ended up as one of VF-101's crashes. Fitting though, it seems to have been lost due to a TF30 engine crapping out on it... "If it was a A-model, it was probably the engine's fault"

Here it is in '92, wearing the greatest squadron markings EVER:

Edited May 11, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[Zentrandude]

But a big part of the controversy on ARC is how can it look that good?  F-14's look like sh*t after 6 months at sea even with constant washing and touchups---how can that tail look better than most line-birds after YEARS in salt water?

398589[/snapback]

Anime Magic

The gulf stream most likey sent the peice up there just after the crash but the cold waters around there kept it perserved while it floating around there for years till it finaly beached.

[Phalanx]

But a big part of the controversy on ARC is how can it look that good?  F-14's look like sh*t after 6 months at sea even with constant washing and touchups---how can that tail look better than most line-birds after YEARS in salt water?

::edit::  It was 162594?  That's one of my fave Tomcats--one of the last (and best-looking) VF-111 CAG planes.  I didn't know it had ended up as one of VF-101's crashes.  Fitting though, it seems to have been lost due to a TF30 engine crapping out on it...   "If it was a A-model, it was probably the engine's fault"  

Here it is in '92, wearing the greatest squadron markings EVER:

398589[/snapback]

What about the ones with the skulls on the vertical rudders? I forgot the squadron number for them but I know that the F-14A's and F-14B's have this design. Man I would love to see an F-14D Super Tomcat 21 with the skulls on it but since the Tomcat 21 program was cancelled due to it being highly unaffordable, I'll never be able to see it like that. What a shame

Edited May 11, 2006 by Phalanx

[Warmaker]

But a big part of the controversy on ARC is how can it look that good?  F-14's look like sh*t after 6 months at sea even with constant washing and touchups---how can that tail look better than most line-birds after YEARS in salt water?

::edit::  It was 162594?  That's one of my fave Tomcats--one of the last (and best-looking) VF-111 CAG planes.  I didn't know it had ended up as one of VF-101's crashes.  Fitting though, it seems to have been lost due to a TF30 engine crapping out on it...  "If it was a A-model, it was probably the engine's fault" 

Here it is in '92, wearing the greatest squadron markings EVER:

398589[/snapback]

What about the ones with the skulls on the vertical rudders? I forgot the squadron number for them but I know that the F-14A's and F-14B's have this design. Man I would love to see an F-14D Super Tomcat 21 with the skulls on it but since the Tomcat 21 program was cancelled due to it being highly unaffordable, I'll never be able to see it like that. What a shame

398611[/snapback]

The original Tomcat Jolly Rogers squadron is VF-84

VF-84

When VF-84 was decomissioned, VF-103 soon took over as the Jolly Rogers.

VF-103

VF-103 then was converted to the Super Hornet F/A-18F. I won't show a link to that, since it looks blasphemous.

[Noyhauser]

Sheesh, don't I feel like I'm behind the curve.

[Skull Leader]

VF-103 then was converted to the Super Hornet F/A-18F.  I won't show a link to that, since it looks blasphemous.

398613[/snapback]

It's not that bad. It's not a Tomcat by any stretch of the imagination, but it's still an impressive aircraft.

(here's a pic I shot at the the Ft. Smith airshow... me and some of my friends took the crew out to dinner... I got the WSO's number, she's cute!

[F-ZeroOne]

But a big part of the controversy on ARC is how can it look that good?  F-14's look like sh*t after 6 months at sea even with constant washing and touchups---how can that tail look better than most line-birds after YEARS in salt water?

Guinness.

[Nied]

That reminds me. I got a new joystick and throttle combo, I should get to work on re-painting the Rhino available for FS2K4 in a proper Jolly Rogers scheme (one that doesn't have the vagabond stripe going through the LERX, and doesn't have the a tiny little jolly rogers squished up into the corner of the fin).

[Knight26]

Which stick and throttle combo?

[Nied]

Which stick and throttle combo?

398706[/snapback]

Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar. My old F-22pro/TQS combo finally gave up the ghost so I figured it was time to upgrade.

And speaking of doing a good VFA-103 re-paint, does anyone know what the Navair rules are for where you can put tailcodes on the horizontal stabs? I know you can't put them on the rudders but are there any other restrictions? I'd like to try and paint something that's as close as possible to something that could actually fly.

[Skull Leader]

Which stick and throttle combo?

398706[/snapback]

Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar. My old F-22pro/TQS combo finally gave up the ghost so I figured it was time to upgrade.

And speaking of doing a good VFA-103 re-paint, does anyone know what the Navair rules are for where you can put tailcodes on the horizontal stabs? I know you can't put them on the rudders but are there any other restrictions? I'd like to try and paint something that's as close as possible to something that could actually fly.

398711[/snapback]

The going rule so far that NAVAIR has mandated is that tailcodes are to be aft of the formation light. A number of squadrons (103 included) are pushing to get the rule changed so they can put their tailcodes on the INSIDE of the tails (like many tomcat squadrons had them).

What one of the pilots was telling me was that once they go to sea, there's really not anything the high command can do about their paintjobs. So if there are any changes they want to make, it'll probably happen then (Mango mentioned that 103 had plans to paint the tails of the linejets Euro I grey like they had on their Tomcats as soon as they leave port.)

[Apollo Leader]

Gus Grissom's Liberty Bell 7 was at the bottom of the Atlantic right off of Florida, 13,000 feet down or so, and for 38 years and most of the paint on the outside of the Mercury capsule (including the painted on crack) was pretty intact and has been preserved on the capsule since it was recovered in 1999.

[Graham]

Heh, just read this on another forum about the canopy on an F/A-22 jamming shut and having to be cut open with a chainsaw.

See: here.

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

Sorry Graham, we've already had a whole (locked) thread here on MW about that, which was then discussed in this very thread back when it happened.

Even the F-14 tail in Ireland is almost old news by 'net standards now.

The latest F-22 news is the almost-demo at the Langley air show last weekend. Practically hovered in a vertical postion. (I figured any plane with enough thrust and control could do it, but the F-22's the first plane that actually did AFAIK) Plus a cobra, but that surprised nobody.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Sorry Graham, we've already had a whole (locked) thread here on MW about that, which was then discussed in this very thread back when it happened. 

Even the F-14 tail in Ireland is almost old news by 'net standards now. 

The latest F-22 news is the almost-demo at the Langley air show last weekend.  Practically hovered in a vertical postion.  (I figured any plane with enough thrust and control could do it, but the F-22's the first plane that actually did AFAIK)  Plus a cobra, but that surprised nobody.

398824[/snapback]

Crap I missed it because of finals! My brother went though, so hopefully he watched it and can fill me in.

btw boys, CORGI has an EF2000 and 2 seat EF2000 coming out later this year. Heck yea! THe FOV F-14A is starting to show up@hobby stores, and to me it looks to be the best 1/72 diecast tomcat out there, even accuracy wise. Heh FOV kicked their own ass with that one! Looks to be superior to the dragon F-14's, in regards to accuracy(looks like an A with TCS), has WEAPONS, ease of gear and weapons removal, and the only thing I see off aside the pilots are the vert stabs which need to be straight rather than angling a tiny bit inwards, won't stop me from buying it at the store though! Looks TONS better than dragon.

And the S1 scheme that 21st century toys 1/18 XD MIG-15 will use has a red nose. Pretty cool!

[Graham]

Yes, a Corgi EF2000! I love the Typhoon and being British, it's the plane I fly the most in the Ace Combat games. Will definitely be picking one up.

Graham