Skull Leader Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 (edited) Good photos, David! Kinda sucks with the cameras limitations, but you certainly seem to have handled the situation well! Spent the morning out on the flightline at McConnell AFB before work... a B-1B from Ellsworth had an IFE and spent the night here. A crewchief and a bunch of techs drove down overnight to work on the jet... the parts they needed are evidently so hard to find that when we left, they were awaiting permission of the base commander to go rob the needed parts off the bases museum jet! We walked the flightline and shot photos of all of the KC-135Rs. Got plenty of good shots, here's a small sample. A couple of the B-1B Lancer The Stratotanker flight line. There were about 30 Tankers on the ramp this morning, although the squadron has over 50. One of the 184th ARW Kansas ANG jets taxiing out. They were packing loaded duty bags when we saw them boarding, so they were heading somewhere for an extended stay! Edited June 4, 2006 by Skull Leader
Lightning Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 funny question: could one really buy......say a moderatly used F-4?
David Hingtgen Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 (edited) F-4? Not that I know of. There are privately owned (as in flyable) F-21/Kfir's. That's about the most advanced jet I know of in civillian hands. (Arguably that guy in South Africa who has a Buccaneer is even better) You see reports of people buying anything from F-18's to MiG-29's, but you never hear of them again nor see them fly. The place with the F-21 is available for hire for movies, ads, etc. Anyone know any actual rules/time limits for owning ex-military US planes? There's civillian F-104's and F-86's---I figure if it was feasible to acquire/maintain, the F-8 would be "ok" to have. THAT would rock. Though I think the F-104's are foreign ones, not US ones--that could have an effect. Otherwise the F-101/102/105 etc should be available as well. Edited June 4, 2006 by David Hingtgen
Noyhauser Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 The YF-22 had a more mature prototype, but it was no closer to a production F-22 than the YF-23 was to a production F-23. High alpha--not very relevant IMHO--what would the YF-22's high-alpha performance prove about the F-22's? Redesigned wings, tail, and intakes. Sure, they'd be similar, but look what happened to the F-18C vs F-18E wing---lots of little issues crept up, and all they did was scale up the wing and add the original F-17 dogtooth back in. F-22 changed a lot more. Yes, but on a bureaucratic side, that didn't matter matter. Gold plating was a common problem that cropped up on almost every program prior to 1995, and the F-22 is an example of a Cold War procurement program. Once the design was chosen it went to standard practices, adding new requirements, changing funding envelopes, ect... with the usual 120% cost increase later. The Typhoon suffers from the exact same problem, and its seen similar cost overrruns and delays. The YF-23, being a completely immature development wise, probably would have been even worse. Probably the first program to change this mold was JDAM acquisition. It heralded an age of programs under what is called Cost and an Independant Variable (CAIV). Its an interesting read if you can find articles on it. Also In certain procurement articles I've read, the F/A-18E is seen as a good program to follow management wise as well, which it came in relatively on time and on budget.
Knight26 Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 Arggh no please no mention of DAWIA, I have a class on that week after next.
Skull Leader Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 F-4? Not that I know of. There are privately owned (as in flyable) F-21/Kfir's. That's about the most advanced jet I know of in civillian hands. (Arguably that guy in South Africa who has a Buccaneer is even better) You see reports of people buying anything from F-18's to MiG-29's, but you never hear of them again nor see them fly. The place with the F-21 is available for hire for movies, ads, etc. Anyone know any actual rules/time limits for owning ex-military US planes? There's civillian F-104's and F-86's---I figure if it was feasible to acquire/maintain, the F-8 would be "ok" to have. THAT would rock. Though I think the F-104's are foreign ones, not US ones--that could have an effect. Otherwise the F-101/102/105 etc should be available as well. 405223[/snapback] Actually, the Collings Foundation owns it's own F-4D (it's an ex- Kansas ANG jet no less), they are a civilian group. While it's not ONE person, it goes to show that they can be bought with enough money.
Noyhauser Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 Arggh no please no mention of DAWIA, I have a class on that week after next. 405269[/snapback] soo knight, have you memorized the DoD 5000 series, from front to back :-p Kidding, kidding, you probably know more about this now than I do.
F-ZeroOne Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 F-4? Not that I know of. There are privately owned (as in flyable) F-21/Kfir's. That's about the most advanced jet I know of in civillian hands. (Arguably that guy in South Africa who has a Buccaneer is even better) 405223[/snapback] That guy in South Africa also has what I think is the only flying privately owned English Electric Lightning in the World. I bet he has fun with fuel bills...
David Hingtgen Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 Is that Collings F-4 flyable? My main criteria is FLYABLE. You can get a non-flying almost anything. A condition of that is also licensing. I know the FAA has very few people qualified to check other people out on most military jets, and even if you could get one, I doubt you could get an F-15 civillian type rating. (Again, we get into other country rules---why that guy in South Africa is there with his jets in the first place)
Coota0 Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 F-4? Not that I know of. There are privately owned (as in flyable) F-21/Kfir's. That's about the most advanced jet I know of in civillian hands. (Arguably that guy in South Africa who has a Buccaneer is even better) You see reports of people buying anything from F-18's to MiG-29's, but you never hear of them again nor see them fly. The place with the F-21 is available for hire for movies, ads, etc. Anyone know any actual rules/time limits for owning ex-military US planes? There's civillian F-104's and F-86's---I figure if it was feasible to acquire/maintain, the F-8 would be "ok" to have. THAT would rock. Though I think the F-104's are foreign ones, not US ones--that could have an effect. Otherwise the F-101/102/105 etc should be available as well. 405223[/snapback] I'd like a trainer, T-37, T-38, T-2 or a T-45 would be incredible.
Skull Leader Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) Is that Collings F-4 flyable? My main criteria is FLYABLE. You can get a non-flying almost anything.  A condition of that is also licensing. I know the FAA has very few people qualified to check other people out on most military jets, and even if you could get one, I doubt you could get an F-15 civillian type rating.  (Again, we get into other country rules---why that guy in South Africa is there with his jets in the first place) 405352[/snapback] Taken last september at the Little Rock AFB airshow. I know one of the pilots, Frank Romaglia (ex KANG Phantom Driver... did a couple of tours in Vietnam out of DaNang). For 10 grand, you can take a ride in it I think. I think it's only a matter of time before we see civilian-rated pilots of new-generation warbirds. The collings phantom guys, for example, are all ex-phantom drivers themselves and a few of them are FAA qualified to rate each other. I'm sure at some point, civie-rated F-14s (Snodgrass is still working on it!), 15s, 16s, and 18s could be possible with enough funding. Edited June 5, 2006 by Skull Leader
David Hingtgen Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 Well I'm very surprised/impressed/happy. Keeping 2 J79's in working order must take a lot of work! Plus the hydraulics... PS--have them come to the Quad Cities! We need more jets! (Since it's not at a military base, EVERY plane has to be brought in--some years we're lucky to get a single A-10) I'd really like to see the Starfighters some day, but they seem to pick the weirdest places to go too... An F-4 is just as good though, if not better.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 I bet the F-16 will be the plane that the civies get to fly first!(of the teen fighters)
promethuem5 Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 I'd love an F-4.... and to know how to fly <.< Those are some awesome pics...especially of the B1.... my friend flies a B1, but I'm not sure where.
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 Okay, time to add some images from my recent trip to Duxford - lets see if we can find a few things that don't appear here often. First up, though, lets pander to the crowd with a shot of a Macross World favourite - and from an angle not many have lived to report seeing...
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) Of course, no trip to Duxford would be complete without a shot - or several dozen - of the best fighter aircraft ever made. This one, though, is quite special - its the two seat Spitfire featured in the UK TV series "Spitfire Ace"! Owner/operator Caroline Grace can be seen just in front of the wing, her "bob" just poking up above it. Edited June 5, 2006 by F-ZeroOne
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 From the other side of the Iron Curtain, comes the MiG-21, the Cold War warrior now entering the twilight ofs its 40 years service. I believe this one was a donation from the Hungarian Air Force.
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 Okay, a crate of Yohinol to whoever can tell me which aircrafts cockpit this is. A few clues - this is the interior of one of the prototypes, so the picture may not match an in-service model, and only a small number were ever built...
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 Now, an aircraft that always makes me feel like crying - the legendary TSR 2, which would have got through the defenses of the Soviet Union in much better shape than it ended up in at the hands of the politicians...
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 Heres a bird you probably don't see that often - a Royal Navy Javelin, in an unusual and attractive read and white scheme.
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 The Hunchback of the USSR, the Mil-24 Hind-D, in a somewhat tatty state.
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) Of course, Duxford isn't all about the aircraft. During the Battle of Britain, it was a fighter base belonging to "12" Group, defending targets North of London. This is Duxfords all-important operations room. Edited June 5, 2006 by F-ZeroOne
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) Another uncommon bird, a Soviet Polikarpov I-15/153 biplane, which fought Me-109s over the Eastern Front until at least 1943! Edited June 5, 2006 by F-ZeroOne
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) "The ugliest aircraft ever built, bar none". The unfortunate Fairey Gannet. Edited June 5, 2006 by F-ZeroOne
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) While I was there, Duxford was holding a World War II day. Another round of Yoshinol to whoever can tell me what the weapon between the Vickers machine-gun and the Lewis gun is in this shot. Edited June 5, 2006 by F-ZeroOne
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) And finally, what can one say about this picture other than - "SCRAMBLE!" Edited June 5, 2006 by F-ZeroOne
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 While I was there, Duxford was holding a World War II day. Another round of Yoshinol to whoever can tell me what the weapon between the Vickers machine-gun and the Lewis gun is in this shot. 405539[/snapback] 0.55 Boys Anti Tank Rifle! Where is my drink?!?
F-ZeroOne Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 While I was there, Duxford was holding a World War II day. Another round of Yoshinol to whoever can tell me what the weapon between the Vickers machine-gun and the Lewis gun is in this shot. 405539[/snapback] 0.55 Boys Anti Tank Rifle! Where is my drink?!? 405546[/snapback] Well done that man! Your drink will be arriving as soon as we hear back from the colony fleet Hikaru Ichijo and Misa Hayase are on. Should be any day now...
Nied Posted June 5, 2006 Author Posted June 5, 2006 Okay, a crate of Yohinol to whoever can tell me which aircrafts cockpit this is. A few clues - this is the interior of one of the prototypes, so the picture may not match an in-service model, and only a small number were ever built... 405530[/snapback] Given your clues and the struts visible just outside of the cockpit window I'm guessing it's a Concorde.
Lightning Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 another question, a matchup actually. F-4 (later models) vs. MiG-21 (same models) Any takers?
Skull Leader Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 (edited) another question, a matchup actually. F-4 (later models) vs. MiG-21 (same models)Any takers? 405645[/snapback] Ehh, it would pretty much be the same thing as happened with F-4Es vs MiG-21s in Vietnam. The only real "later" models that didn't see service in 'nam are the F-4G and the F-4N/S, which probably would've performed near identical to the late F-4E (with the slatted wing... and the F-4Ns didn't even have that) So the end result is the same. The F-4 would be better in the climb, and the MiG-21 would be better in the turn. The only real thing that would be different is that the later-issue J-79s were classified as "lo-smoke" versions which would leave less of an identifying trail across the sky. No J-79 is ever completely smokeless though. Edited June 6, 2006 by Skull Leader
Nied Posted June 6, 2006 Author Posted June 6, 2006 another question, a matchup actually. F-4 (later models) vs. MiG-21 (same models)Any takers? 405645[/snapback] What do you mean? The last models in US and USSR service from the mid '80s, or the latest retrofitted versions? (Kurnas 2000 or latest F-4EJs for the Phantom, Lancer and Bison upgrades for the Fishbed).
David Hingtgen Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 We all knew from watching GI Joe, that someday, this would actually exist for the troops: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770
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