Aircraft Vs Super Thread! 2

[David Hingtgen]

I still vote Rafale. The new carrier is being designed for both the UK and France, and so it will be designed with Rafale capability in mind. It's actually the UK version that's not finalized, as they don't know what plane to design it for! But with Rafale capability being inherent to the design...

[Warmaker]

Funnily enough I was recently reading about Japan's need to replace it's fleet of ageing F-4s.

I reckon that the JASDF will eventually end up with a watered-down version of the F-22, that is if the US Government ever approves it for export sales.

Some version of the F-15 is also a possiblity I suppose, as the Japanese have been operating F-15s for many years now.

But I think the F-15 while still a good fighter, is showing it's age and has reached the point where it's capabilities can't be upgraded much more.

To be honest, with their close ties to the US, I can't see Japan buying a European fighter (Typhoon, Rafale or Gripen), despite all being excellent planes. IMO Typhoon is second only behind the F-22, especially if it ever gets built with all of the proposed Tranch 2 improvements and it's a damn sight cheaper than the F-22 to boot.

Graham

400042[/snapback]

I think it was somewhere waaaaaaaaaaayyy earlier in this thread that someone mentioned the Japanese have had a new interest in the F-22.

I looked around and and found a few articles on the subject.

Here: Defense Industry Daily

And here: Military.com

I thought it weird and unusual, since I thought the USAF would keep this thing closely guarded. But the more you think about it, if anyone outside the US ever gets the F-22, it's going to be Japan.

+ Close ties to the US.

+ Japan is quite well off economically and spends a good amount on her defense.

+ The JASDF has several aircraft in their inventory with US origins: The F-15, F-4, and F-2 (variant of the F-16).

+ Japan has quite a bit of airspace and ocean to patrol. North Korea and China are fairly closeby neighbors.

+ The USAF has cut down on the numbers of F-22's it can purchase. That means higher individual aircraft costs. If Japan decides to buy some, it may lower the overall costs a bit.

Last thing... since when have the F-16's been called "Vipers?" As as kid when reading about the F-16 and getting model kits of this jet, it was always called "Fighting Falcon" or just "Falcon." Personally, I always preferred the "Fighting Falcon" name. It goes along with its counterpart, the "Eagle."

Edited May 17, 2006 by Warmaker

[Graham]

Being a big Typhoon fan, my favorite sites are: -

Eurofighter Forums.

Official Eurofighter Site.

Graham

[Graham]

Another good aviation site I like to visit is the UK Airshow Review forum.

They always have some great photos in the Modern Military Photography section.

Graham

[Phalanx]

I think it was somewhere waaaaaaaaaaayyy earlier in this thread that someone mentioned the Japanese have had a new interest in the F-22.

I looked around and and found a few articles on the subject.

Here: Defense Industry Daily

And here: Military.com

I thought it weird and unusual, since I thought the USAF would keep this thing closely guarded.  But the more you think about it, if anyone outside the US ever gets the F-22, it's going to be Japan.

+ Close ties to the US.

+ Japan is quite well off economically and spends a good amount on her defense.

+ The JASDF has several aircraft in their inventory with US origins: The F-15, F-4, and F-2 (variant of the F-16).

+ Japan has quite a bit of airspace and ocean to patrol.  North Korea and China are fairly closeby neighbors.

+ The USAF has cut down on the numbers of F-22's it can purchase.  That means higher individual aircraft costs.  If Japan decides to buy some, it may lower the overall costs a bit.

400047[/snapback]

Yeah, it's good that Japan may be getting the F-22 to replace their F-15's for the years to come but due to high production and maintenance cost in the U.S, the Japanese may have to order a small number of F-22's to currently supplement their F-15's unless Lockheed grants them licensing and manufacturing rights to it. Like Nied stated many pages back in this thread, he had told us that the S. Korea was getting the F-15K for the sole purpose of trying to counter Japan's aging arsenal of F-15's, but it looks like Japan will be able to turn the tide to counter SK's F-15K with their F-22J's Chew on that, fuggers.

I'm trying not to go into politics about this but since it apparantely appears that S. Korea is hankering to go to war with Japan, I feel that that's the reason why they chose to buy the F-15K instead of the Rafale, Typhoon, or Zhuravlik Flankers; they knew we have F-15J's and decided to fight fire with fire and even though our F-15J's are at a a slight disadvantage against them since their F-15K has an advanced targeting system as well as updated avionics and A2G capabilties opposed to our's that don't have it. It also worth noting that as you guys know, S. Korea constantly copies everything my Japanese brethren do probably to insult us and to try to be like us. Whatever we make or get from the U.S, they copy and that's what they did with F-15K. Even though S. Korea hates Japan with a passion, I just find it downright ironic and hypocritical for them to copy us. Sure, it would've been good if JASDF had recieved permission from Boeing to update the avionics in their F-15J's to counter F-15KS's but that will never happen anytime soon.

Quickly going back to the fact of countering other countries fighter aircraft, by using the same type of aircraft you're fighting against is just downright retarded and the F-15K versus F-15J is perfect example of that. Why use the same type of aircfraft to fight agianst your opponent that has the same tye of aircraft you do, when the battle may result in equal kills in losses? Even if ROKAF is confident that their F-15K's can defeat JASDF's F-15J's due to the fact that they have updated avionics, that doesn't make their variant on the overall better than Japan's. Like Shin stated earlier, it's the pilot not the plane, that makes it the best. Even though F-15J's don't have updated avionics like the F-15K, it's still possible for the most experienced Japanese eagle pilots to shoot down Korea's F-15K's. If ROKAF is so obsessed with tryng to counter JASDF aircraft, they might as well buy SU-30's or SU-37's since they bost superior handling and dogfighting capabilites that would bring the JASDF's F-15J's to shame instead of buying the same type of aircraft we have. Note to S. Korea: You can stop copying my brethren in all aspects! And with ROKAF using F-15K's to counter JASDF's F-15J's, you're making it a fair fight. The U.S doesn't like to fight fair. We use technologically advanced aircraft to spar with other countries aircraft like the F-22 and JSF. ROKAF assumes that F-15K's will win just because of a small upgrade to their fighters. If I recall, if you want to win a war, you don't fight fair, you cheat and the U.S cheated and won wars by using stealth technology as well as other military technolgy against our adversaries.

Edited May 17, 2006 by Phalanx

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Ha! French aircraft for Her Majesty's Navy? I'd take bets against that ever happening. The ghosts from Agincourt to Waterloo will surely have some strong opinions on that!

Dock some more % chances of that happening if France meets and defeats the English team in the coming World Cup.

Edited May 17, 2006 by Retracting Head Ter Ter

[Phalanx]

The Brits are eyeing either the Rafale or Sea Typhoon as a Harrier replacement (good options).  I've also heard them say they'd rather have the F-35C (also a good option).

400033[/snapback]

I gotta agree with Dave with this one about the Rafale being the Royal Navy's replacement for the Harrier as my reasoning is mostly due to the fact that it's a fighter/bomber and that was the role of the Harrier prior to it being replaced. Besides in terms of design aesthetics, I like the Rafale than the Typhoon because it's more streamlined than the Typhoons aerodynamic nose to fuselage area. However, with the JSF since it does posesses the trademark ability to hover like the Harrier, chances are that they might buy a few of these babies to supplement their Rafales.(that is of course, if they ever get them)

Edited May 17, 2006 by Phalanx

[Nied]

Yeah, it's good that Japan may be getting the F-22 to replace their F-15's for the years to come but due to high production and maintenance cost in the U.S, the Japanese may have to order a small number of F-22's to currently supplement their F-15's unless Lockheed grants them licensing and manufacturing rights to it. Like Nied stated many pages back in this thread, he had told us that the S. Korea was getting the F-15K for the sole purpose of trying to counter Japan's aging arsenal of  F-15's, but it looks like Japan will be able to turn the tide to counter SK's F-15K with their F-22J's   Chew on that, fuggers.

I'm trying not to go into politics about this but since it apparantely appears that S. Korea is hankering to go to war with Japan, I feel that that's the reason why they chose to buy the F-15K instead of the Rafale, Typhoon, or Zhuravlik Flankers; they knew we have F-15J's and decided to fight fire with fire and even though our F-15J's are at a a slight disadvantage against them since their F-15K has an advanced targeting system as well as updated avionics and A2G capabilties opposed to our's that don't have it. It also worth noting that as you guys know, S. Korea constantly copies everything my Japanese brethren do probably to insult us and to try to be like us. Whatever we make or get from the U.S, they copy and that's what they did with F-15K. Even though S. Korea hates Japan with a passion, I just find it downright ironic and hypocritical for them to copy us. Sure, it would've been good if JASDF had recieved permission from Boeing to update the avionics in their F-15J's to counter F-15KS's but that will never happen anytime soon.

Quickly going back to the fact of countering other countries fighter aircraft, by using the same type of aircraft you're fighting against is just downright retarded and the F-15K versus F-15J is perfect example of that. Why use the same type of aircfraft to fight agianst your opponent that has the same tye of aircraft you do, when the battle may result in equal kills in losses? Even if ROKAF is confident that their F-15K's can defeat JASDF's F-15J's due to the fact that they have updated avionics, that doesn't make their variant on the overall better than Japan's. Like Shin stated earlier, it's the pilot not the plane, that makes it the best. Even though F-15J's don't have updated avionics like the F-15K, it's still possible for the most experienced Japanese eagle pilots to shoot down Korea's F-15K's. If ROKAF is so obsessed with tryng to counter JASDF aircraft, they might as well buy SU-30's or SU-37's since they bost superior handling and dogfighting capabilites that would bring the JASDF's F-15J's to shame instead of buying the same type of aircraft we have. Note to S. Korea: You can stop copying my brethren in all aspects! And with ROKAF using F-15K's to counter JASDF's F-15J's, you're making it a fair fight. The U.S doesn't like to fight fair. We use technologically advanced aircraft to spar with other countries aircraft like the F-22 and JSF. ROKAF assumes that F-15K's will win just because of a small upgrade to their fighters. If I recall, if you want to win a war, you don't fight fair, you cheat and the U.S cheated and won wars by using stealth technology as well as other military technolgy against our adversaries.

400083[/snapback]

I doubt that South Korea is going to declare war on Japan. They're more worried about Japan declaring war on them. Most of the countries in the Pacific rim are quite afraid that Japan will some day give up the self defense clause in their constitution and go on the rampage again, and they buy military equipment to allay those fears.

[kalvasflam]

Ha! French aircraft for Her Majesty's Navy? I'd take bets against that ever happening. The ghosts from Agincourt to Waterloo will surely have some strong opinions on that!

Dock some more % chances of that happening if France meets and defeats the English team in the coming World Cup.

400091[/snapback]

Exactly, Lord Nelson must be turning in his grave right now even at the thought of this. Although I do believe the UK had plans to have an aircraft carrier built by the French. Oh, how the mighty (back in 1800s at least) has fallen.

The travesty of the US armament industry is something that needs serious redress. As brought up several times now, the number of next generation fighter planes being built for the USAF is just scandalous. The amount of money used for the development process will soon outweigh what was slated in production.

[kalvasflam]

Yeah, it's good that Japan may be getting the F-22 to replace their F-15's for the years to come but due to high production and maintenance cost in the U.S, the Japanese may have to order a small number of F-22's to currently supplement their F-15's unless Lockheed grants them licensing and manufacturing rights to it. Like Nied stated many pages back in this thread, he had told us that the S. Korea was getting the F-15K for the sole purpose of trying to counter Japan's aging arsenal of  F-15's, but it looks like Japan will be able to turn the tide to counter SK's F-15K with their F-22J's   Chew on that, fuggers.

Phalanx, where the hell are you getting these crazy ideas from? While it is true that Korea, and most of Asia has had horrible experiences with the Japanese (see WWII), there is no reason for them currently to go to war with Japan, and in turn the US.

For South Korea, there is this little psychotic with nukes to the north of them. That's more than enough reasons for the SK F-15s. The same reason for the Japanese desire for high performance fighters. But looming larger in their vision is to counter the real power in the east, or in their case, to their west. With probably the world's fastest growing economy, and a large armed forces, the only thing that the smaller countries can do is hope that they can outpace China in terms of technology.

Snip the rest of the ridiculous comments.

Quickly going back to the fact of countering other countries fighter aircraft, by using the same type of aircraft you're fighting against is just downright retarded and the F-15K versus F-15J is perfect example of that. Why use the same type of aircfraft to fight agianst your opponent that has the same tye of aircraft you do, when the battle may result in equal kills in losses? Even if ROKAF is confident that their F-15K's can defeat JASDF's F-15J's due to the fact that they have updated avionics, that doesn't make their variant on the overall better than Japan's. Like Shin stated earlier, it's the pilot not the plane, that makes it the best. Even though F-15J's don't have updated avionics like the F-15K, it's still possible for the most experienced Japanese eagle pilots to shoot down Korea's F-15K's. If ROKAF is so obsessed with tryng to counter JASDF aircraft, they might as well buy SU-30's or SU-37's since they bost superior handling and dogfighting capabilites that would bring the JASDF's F-15J's to shame instead of buying the same type of aircraft we have. Note to S. Korea: You can stop copying my brethren in all aspects! And with ROKAF using F-15K's to counter JASDF's F-15J's, you're making it a fair fight. The U.S doesn't like to fight fair. We use technologically advanced aircraft to spar with other countries aircraft like the F-22 and JSF. ROKAF assumes that F-15K's will win just because of a small upgrade to their fighters. If I recall, if you want to win a war, you don't fight fair, you cheat and the U.S cheated and won wars by using stealth technology as well as other military technolgy against our adversaries.

400083[/snapback]

Boy, I have one thing to say, your line of logic is so far off base that it's crazy. Geopolitics of the region has changed. If you want to talk about moral high ground, let's just be honest, Japan doesn't hold it when comparing to the Koreans, all you have to do is look at history.

[Phalanx]

No disrespect to you Kalvasflam, but I constantly keep up with the japantoday.com news to get insights about politcs when it comes to Korea/Japan relationships. I'm fully aware of my brethren's history involving their occupation of China and Korea during WW2 and I know that's why they still hate Japan hitherto this day. I'm not trying to go deep into politics with this one for fear that this thread maybe locked for it but the PM of Korea Roh Moo Hyun calls Japan's pride and nationalism a recipe for war and I think it's hypocrtical for them to say that when that's what they are doing to us. As you shouldknow, Japan is trying to ease tensions between S.Korea and China but these 2 countries are being exteremly stubborn and narrow-minded by refusing to understand their path to a peaceful and healthy relationship. That's why N. Korea is just waiting for Japan to slip and start war with them as well as China and S. Korea. For more on that visit japantoday.com

As for my logical thinking about the game of war, how is it so off that sounds crazy? Everybody obviously knows that technology is what also helps in winning war in addtion to planning, strategy, subterfuge and etc. It's also worth noting that I honestly got my "logical thinking" from my grandfather who is a war historian and expert.

Edited May 17, 2006 by Phalanx

[Phyrox]

No disrespect to you Kalvasflam, but I constantly keep up with the japantoday.com news to get insights about politcs when it comes to Korea/Japan relationships. I'm fully aware of my brethren's history involving their occupation of China and Korea during WW2 and I know that's why they still hate Japan hitherto this day. I'm not trying to go deep into politics with this one for fear that this thread maybe locked for it but the PM of Korea Roh Moo Hyun calls Japan's pride and nationalism a recipe for war and I think it's hypocrtical for them to say that when that's what they are doing to us. As you shouldknow, Japan is trying to ease tensions between S.Korea and China but these 2 countries are being exteremly stubborn and narrow-minded by refusing to understand their path to a peaceful and healthy relationship. That's why N. Korea is just waiting for Japan to slip and start war with them as well as China and S. Korea. For more on that visit japantoday.com

As for my logical thinking about the game of war, how is it so off that sounds crazy? Everybody obviously knows that technology is what also helps in winning war in addtion to planning, strategy, subterfuge and etc. It's also worth noting that I honestly got my "logical thinking" from my grandfather who is a war historian and expert.

400131[/snapback]

I read this post three times over, and it never got any more sensible. Combine a few facts and reams of speculation and I guess that's what you get.

[kalvasflam]

Ok, Phalanx, I'm not going to argue with you on this, because we're really going to deviate off topic here and stray into some unpleasentness. Which actually is my fault in the first place for responding to your message.

Rather, I'll get back to simple business of airplanes. In terms of regional capabilities, F-15Ks are probably more of a response to NK threat, and to some extent the Flanker threat the Chinese is building up. It almost seem that in terms of doctrine, the SK are trying to emulate the US. The bigger concern for them of course is China. The PLAAF has invested a ton of money in their air force, whether that's equivalent to having a capable war fighting force is something else that we may never find out. But on paper it looks impressive. Right now, if it's a conventional shooting war with no ground forces involved, it's tough to say who would win. The PLAAF will have superiority in numbers, but SK might have better overall doctrine when it comes to a fight.

In terms of capabilities, the JDSF has a fairly well integrated air defense systems, the -22s should augment that capability further. As for European aircraft, well, it's just not that likely since Japan has their own aircraft industry that will compete with the Europeans, and the closer ties to the US will likely ensure no Typhoons or Rafales in their service.

[F-ZeroOne]

Being a big Typhoon fan, my favorite sites are: -

Eurofighter Forums.

Official Eurofighter Site.

Graham

400048[/snapback]

Heh. You've got to love quotes like:

"It has been seen as a bit of a white elephant and Cold War relic but we have never had an aircraft that has performed like this. Best thing since the Spitfire."

Now thats praise!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I am not a JSF fan either. Now if it was the F-22 being pressed into service and worked up to essentially do the JSF's jobs, THEN yes I

'd be happy. Its got the range and space and all the defensive needs that are so much better. Big fighters have the space ya know.

Now the question is....

WHO WILL GET THE BEST EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON?

Britain keeps getting different tranches and from what I read, keeps changing minds on whether to replace the cannon with ballast or leave it in and just not use it. Whatever happened to pushing the damn thing to its full potential? The typhoon can do so much and yet its own parent nation holds it back. I wonder why though, I mean if they push it to its best, it could save them so much money rather than making so many different tranches each limited in some way.

[Phalanx]

I am not a JSF fan either.  Now if it was the F-22 being pressed into service and worked up to essentially do the JSF's jobs, THEN yes I

'd be happy.  Its got the range and space and all the defensive needs that are so much better.  Big fighters have the space ya know.

Now the question is....

WHO WILL GET THE BEST EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON?

Britain keeps getting different tranches and from what I read, keeps changing minds on whether to replace the cannon with ballast or leave it in and just not use it. Whatever happened to pushing the damn thing to its full potential?  The typhoon can do so much and yet its own parent nation holds it back. I wonder why though, I mean if they push it to its best, it could save them so much money rather than making so many different tranches each limited in some way.

400221[/snapback]

That's a very good point Shin when you think about it, who really is going to get the best Typhoon variant? Since it was a colabo of Briatin, Spain, France, and Germany's aerospace engineers, it's hard to decide who may get this ultra variant..I just think that whichever of the 4 countries that is more than willing to pay an arm and a leg for it will get it. Unless they all decide to modify it''s avionics accordingly so that each if the four countries have a variant that equals each other and noone elses variant will surpass or outperform the other. Unless maybe they sign a contract that seals this seemingly logical deal for these "equal variants". So therefore I've also pointed out a disadvantage to having joint aircraft production projects; deciding on who gets the better one. That's just my 50 yen on the matter at hand.

Edited May 18, 2006 by Phalanx

[David Hingtgen]

In the end, Britain had(has) the best Tornado variants. Only the UK and Saudi Arabia even had the ADF version, and the IDS Gr.4 far surpasses the "almost how they were delivered" versions everyone else has.

[Nied]

Yeah gun, no gun or gun that's there but can't be fired, the UK wins. IIRC they're the only ones getting Tranche 3.

[Graham]

Britain keeps getting different tranches and from what I read, keeps changing minds on whether to replace the cannon with ballast or leave it in and just not use it. Whatever happened to pushing the damn thing to its full potential?  The typhoon can do so much and yet its own parent nation holds it back. I wonder why though, I mean if they push it to its best, it could save them so much money rather than making so many different tranches each limited in some way.

400221[/snapback]

It's incorrect to say that Britain keeps getting different Tranches. So far only the Tranche 1 aircraft are in production and service with UK and the other partner nation countries. Tranche 1 planes are primarily configured for the A2A role and cleared for use with existing conventional weapons such as AMRAAM and Sidewinder.

Production of Tranche 2 aircraft hasn't started yet. Heck, IIRC they keep changing their minds about what upgrades are going to go into the Tranche 2 planes. Plus, it's highly dependant on funding. From what I remember Tranche 2 planes are supposed to get full A2G capability (the Eurofighter once fully developed will be an extremely capable multi-role plane), intergration with a greater range of advanced A2A & A2G weapons coming soon, such as the Meteor BVR missiles, which should kick AMRAAMs ass, and possibly an AESA radar as well.

Tranche 3 funding and development is up in the air right now, but is supposed to cover advanced upgrades such as thrust vectoring (doesn't really need it IMO).

Tranche is the French word for 'Slice' and simply referes in this case to the three planned development stages of the Typhoon.

As to why development of the Eurofighters capabilities doesn't happen faster, it all comes down to politics and funding.

Graham

[buddhafabio]

i am feeling kinda morbid. is there any good web sites with collections of pictures of military aircraft in accidents.

[Knight26]

http://www.micom.net/oops/

[Phalanx]

Mna Knight26, those crash pics as well as tose crash videos or wicked. Especially that F-15 midair crash. The one that confused me the most was that F-14A explosion.

[Knight26]

It threw a compressor blade, ask DH he knows more about what happened.

[David Hingtgen]

Which one of many F-14 exploding videos is it? Doesn't really matter, it's the same thing every time:

The TF30 is one of the worst jet engines to ever enter service. Their compressors stall all the time, usually leading to blade bending, and subsequently blowing up the engine.

[Knight26]

I agree DH, the only good the TF30 ever did was back at Aviation Challenge we had one cut up and painted to use a teaching aide to show all the parts of an engine. Suck, Squeeze, bang, twist, blow, blow harder. LOL

[Phalanx]

I agree DH, the only good the TF30 ever did was back at Aviation Challenge we had one cut up and painted to use a teaching aide to show all the parts of an engine. Suck, Squeeze, bang, twist, blow, blow harder.  LOL

400655[/snapback]

Aviation Chaalenge? I remember hearing about that camp 8 years ago, and I always wanted to go there. I wonder if it's still around though.

[Knight26]

I used to work there, and yes it is still around, but it has changed drastically, if you really want to get to know planes I would apply for a summer job there once you are in college. Of course the place has changed drastically and all of the old guard was all but kicked out by the current management, bunch of flatulating space camp buttheads. Still I would love to hear how the old place is doing before the the Space Camp 25 anniversary next year.

[Phalanx]

The TF30 is one of the worst jet engines to ever enter service.  Their compressors stall all the time, usually leading to blade bending, and subsequently blowing up the engine.

400650[/snapback]

I wonder if the Iranian F-14's had this same problem with their engines. This is the General Electric Pratt & Whitney model jet engine, right?

[David Hingtgen]

GE and PW are two different companies. Though there are a few joint projects for large airliner engines recently.

The TF30 is a PW engine. The GE engine for the F-14 is the F110, which is used on the F-14B and F-14D.

And Iran's would have the exact same problems.

Note that all the videos you see are the IMPROVED version of the TF30! Early ones were even worse--failed more often and with bigger booms. Feel sorry for VF-1, VF-2, and VF-124, who had to deal with the really early ones.

[VF-19]

GE and PW are two different companies.  Though there are a few joint projects for large airliner engines recently. 

The TF30 is a PW engine.  The GE engine for the F-14 is the F110, which is used on the F-14B and F-14D. 

And Iran's would have the exact same problems.

Note that all the videos you see are the IMPROVED version of the TF30!  Early ones were even worse--failed more often and with bigger booms.  Feel sorry for VF-1, VF-2, and VF-124, who had to deal with the really early ones.

400721[/snapback]

You know, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Iranians retrofitted another type of engine into their F-14s; probably with help from the Russians.

Although, there's no way to prove my above wild statement...

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Much as I'd like to see those high thrust 4th gen russian engines in a Tomcat (which should make the Iranian birds out accelerate the D), all reliable sources point to the Iranians still using the TF30.

I don't have any data on the dimensions but which Russian turbine could theoretically bolt onto the F14 without having to redesign half the airframe?

[Nied]

You know, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Iranians retrofitted another type of engine into their F-14s; probably with help from the Russians.

Although, there's no way to prove my above wild statement...

400725[/snapback]

That was the rumor going around for a while, however Tom Cooper (author of Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Action) swears that no such modifications have been made. Honestly Were I Iran I would take Hugo Chavez up on his offer to give me Venezuela's old F-16As. Not to use them, but to get a hold of their F100 engines to either reverse engineer or install directly into my Tomcats.

[Nied]

Much as I'd like to see those high thrust 4th gen russian engines in a Tomcat (which should make the Iranian birds out accelerate the D), all reliable sources point to the Iranians still using the TF30.

I don't have any data on the dimensions but which Russian turbine could theoretically bolt onto the F14 without having to redesign half the airframe?

400728[/snapback]

The AL-31s in an Su-27 are roughly the same size as the TF-30 and GE110, physically they would fit. Though as Knight26 pointed out a while back the Russian engines use completely different mount points than American ones and thus still would take some work to be made compatible (I could see the Chinese being convinced to license a custom version of the WS-10 for installation into the ALi-Cats).

[Nied]

Tom Cooper has a website! the Air Combat Information Group All sorts of interesting articles and there's a forum.

[David Hingtgen]

For the love of God don't hang around ACIG.org. Trust me, it's like going to Robotech.com for Macross info. Tom Cooper may be fairly reputable, but the forums there are no better than Abovetopsecret.com etc.