Models Are Out...

[nightmareB4macross]

I was looking at the hobby magazine sections of MW, the newest entries. I noticed both Dengeki Hobby and Hobby Japan have custom painted 1-48s. The pictures of the Yamatos in the articles are fantastic and look far better that the Hasegawas.

Being that the toys carry that extra playability factor and with a little creativity and paint, the shelf queen factor, are modelers of Macross Vfs more likely to acquire toys for customizing rather than models.

This seems to be the new trend, and an awesome one at that

**TOYS RULE!!

[HWR MKII]

HISSSSSSS!

[Noyhauser]

I was looking at the hobby magazine sections of MW, the newest entries. I noticed both Dengeki Hobby and Hobby Japan have custom painted 1-48s. The pictures of the Yamatos in the articles are fantastic and look far better that the Hasegawas.

Being that the toys carry that extra playability factor and with a little creativity and paint, the shelf queen factor, are modelers of Macross Vfs more likely to acquire toys for customizing rather than models.

This seems to be the new trend, and an awesome one at that

**TOYS RULE!!

384655[/snapback]

You have got to be kidding me. I don't think toys come anywhere close to the "realism" factor that models do. The panel lines and shape of the hase are amazing, (even if they may not be completely canon, they are realistic), when I look at the Yamato, I don't get that feeling that its a real flyable piece of machinery as I do with the Hase versions. Moreover being able to transform is great and all, but a couple of transformations and the long worked on paint job gets trashed.

And with the exception of the Yamato VF-1s every other model looks like a poorly made toy (no offense, but they do). Take one look at the Hase YF-21 and the Yamato YF-21 and its not even a comparison. The Yamato 21 looks like something a 12 year old plays with, while the Hasegawa model looks like something I can legitimately display along side my collection of real world military jets and airplanes.

Finally toys don't offer anywhere the level of customability and range of products. It would nearly be impossible for me to build the electronic warfare VF-1 that I am planning from a toy, and I certainly won't be seeing a VF-4 toy any time soon either (but I've got several VF-4 resin kits just itching to be built)

If I've been baited into a sarchastic thread, sorry, but its not even comparable. Maybe some modelers might be enticed, but on the whole, toys don't even come close to replicating the best parts of modeling.

[Berttt]

This has got to be G up.

[HWR MKII]

If toys are SO cool then why are they TRYING to be like models then in terms of detail and accuracy

[MechTech]

Alright, you gotta know where I stand on this one. I have a "token" Yamato Hikaru VF-1J and, ah... that's it.

[nightmareB4macross]

If toys are SO cool then why are they TRYING to be like models then in terms of detail and accuracy  

384690[/snapback]

Because models are too FRA(SNAP)GILE and WEAK to handle. A toy on the otherhand is meant to be played with or displayed, depending on the owner.

It also looks like it could be that toys are actually becoming something more that just toys. They are becoming something of a hybrid that has great detail and actual function, other than looking pretty on a shelf, like girly models.

[Viceland]

Section I.: The basic don'ts of Macross World posting Etiquette.

These are typical behaviors in posting that can make the forums a mess. They may seem minor but it does interfere with keeping a well-run message board.

Don't:

1. Posting in the wrong forum.

2. Make a topic about your other topic.

3. Bump your topic every five minutes or every hour.

Bumping is okay under one of two conditions: A day has gone by since you first started the topic and, or it is no longer on the first page.

4. Start a new topic to respond to someone else?s topic or even to your own.

5. Use a topic title or description that doesn?t match your post?s content.

6. Start several new topics at once.

See if there is a similar topic on the forums already about your subject before you start a new topic. If you have multiple questions group them under one topic.

7. Make a topic about nonsense.

Snip

[nightmareB4macross]

Section I.: The basic don\\\'ts of Macross World posting Etiquette.

These are typical behaviors in posting that can make the forums a mess. They may seem minor but it does interfere with keeping a well-run message board.

Don\\\'t:

1. Posting in the wrong forum.

2. Make a topic about your other topic.

3. Bump your topic every five minutes or every hour.

Bumping is okay under one of two conditions: A day has gone by since you first started the topic and, or it is no longer on the first page.

4. Start a new topic to respond to someone else?s topic or even to your own.

5. Use a topic title or description that doesn?t match your post?s content.

6. Start several new topics at once.

See if there is a similar topic on the forums already about your subject before you start a new topic. If you have multiple questions group them under one topic.

7. Make a topic about nonsense.

Snip

384696[/snapback]

It\\\'s only nonsense when nobody responds.

Besides stick to the topic, I just went by an observation of the most current mags posted on MW. This was only meant towards MACROSS VFs and the choice modellers are taking by using the 1/48 TOY platform. Given that fact that yes models do have an excellent portrayal of realism, but from where I\\\'m looking, the 1/48 TOY is better due to size and accessabillity to implement better details.

FYI - I like both models and toys, but prefer the latter. I\'d prefer to use a toy to customize than model. Most models are almost done in terms of detail, but a toy allows you a bit more artistic venturing. Again, this is about MACROSS VFs!

Edited March 27, 2006 by nightmareB4macross

[Noyhauser]

It\'s only nonsense when nobody responds.

Besides stick to the topic, I just went by an observation of the most current mags posted on MW. This was only meant towards MACROSS VFs and the choice modellers are taking by using the 1/48 TOY platform. Given that fact that yes models do have an excellent portrayal of realism, but from where I\'m looking, the 1/48 TOY is better due to size and accessabillity to implement better details.

384732[/snapback]

Have you seen the Ultimate Detail 1/48? No amount of customization would ever make a Yamato even a pale imitation of it. If someone tried, it wouldn't even be a toy at that point, because it would require so many customized parts.

I think your point has more to do with scale, than toys vs models. Personally I love 1/72, and have since I was a child. I think its a good balance where you can build most aircraft and display them together. Also I would hazard to say that 1/72 requires more skill than 1/48, if one were to attempt to aspire to a similar level of detail, I think Memnon's old strike valk (Click here to see) shows how an expert modeler can incorporate great amount of detail into a very small area.

Also I don't think two magazines post of customized yams is any sort of indicator of a major switch... sorry.

Edited March 28, 2006 by Noyhauser

[wm cheng]

The Yamatos are quite well engineered (I have one of everyone myself) but they are still a long way from being able to be compared to as models. They are miles ahead of the chunky monkeys of the 80s (IMHO) but the depth of the panel lines and such still relegate it to toy status for me (even if we attempt a decent paint). They do rival the old ARII/IMAI models of the 80s though.

The closest toys I've seen to being models are the Gundam FIX Figuration - their paint and markings are incredible.

However, it is sad that I find model making a dying art. Just looking at the bricks & mortar shops around here - so many have gone out of business! I find that I can no longer get all my supplies locally and must rely more and more on the internet. A bad sign of things to come. I think the newer generation lacks the patients that is required to build a model - its the "instant gratification" generation! What's easier than paint something that's already been made! (sorry, no offense to the amazing customizers on this site) - its more a stab at the lazier younger generation.

[Noyhauser]

Personally I think that the Internet has really opened up modeling more than anything else. Traditional Hobby shops just can't compare to the internet. For example I've been searching for ages for a late model 1/72 Spitfire or spiteful and a bearcat. No model shop could ever find me this model, but 10 minutes on Ebay and I have a Mark XVI in the mail from the UK. Similar to modeling, is that Small and antique Book stores have had to embrace the internet otherwise they quickly go out of business. This has become an ever increasing part of successful bookstores buisness models, where the customer has become a virtual concept, rather than a guy walking through the door.

One only has to point at the explosion in option kits (Especially ones from eastern europe) to see how modeling has diversified, partly because of the internet (but not completely). More choice is a good thing. And I think most people enter into modeling due to family members . My brother got me into modeling, as I suspect most people do too. So don't count out the "young uns" too soon, or the hobby itself.

Edited March 28, 2006 by Noyhauser

[JKeats]

I like how you ended your first post with, "**Toys Rule!!"

That makes your argument not only legitimate but respectable as well. You could have gone the extra mile by replacing the "s" in "Toys" with a "z", for added emphasis on the cool/hip factor.

For ex:

**Toyz rule!!

And if you want to be totally superfly, try popping that "z" in at the end of "rule" and see your naysayers bow in the presence of absolute knowledge.

For ex:

**Toyz rulez!!

[nightmareB4macross]

It\\\'s only nonsense when nobody responds.

Besides stick to the topic, I just went by an observation of the most current mags posted on MW. This was only meant towards MACROSS VFs and the choice modellers are taking by using the 1/48 TOY platform. Given that fact that yes models do have an excellent portrayal of realism, but from where I\\\'m looking, the 1/48 TOY is better due to size and accessabillity to implement better details.

384732[/snapback]

Have you seen the Ultimate Detail 1/48? No amount of customization would ever make a Yamato even a pale imitation of it. If someone tried, it wouldn\'t even be a toy at that point, because it would require so many customized parts.

I think your point has more to do with scale, than toys vs models. Personally I love 1/72, and have since I was a child. I think its a good balance where you can build most aircraft and display them together. Also I would hazard to say that 1/72 requires more skill than 1/48, if one were to attempt to aspire to a similar level of detail, I think Memnon\'s old strike valk (Click here to see) shows how an expert modeler can incorporate great amount of detail into a very small area.

Also I don\'t think two magazines post of customized yams is any sort of indicator of a major switch... sorry.

384735[/snapback]

No need to apologize for your opinions...They\'re only yours.

But anyways, I was wondering if this is the new direction for customizing. There are quite a few modellers who do customize a toy to give it a more realistic feel, albight, it\'s still a toy.

No one hear is

[nightmareB4macross]

The Yamatos are quite well engineered (I have one of everyone myself) but they are still a long way from being able to be compared to as models.  They are miles ahead of the chunky monkeys of the 80s (IMHO) but the depth of the panel lines and such still relegate it to toy status for me (even if we attempt a decent paint).  They do rival the old ARII/IMAI models of the 80s though.

The closest toys I\'ve seen to being models are the Gundam FIX Figuration - their paint and markings are incredible.

However, it is sad that I find model making a dying art.  Just looking at the bricks & mortar shops around here - so many have gone out of business!   I find that I can no longer get all my supplies locally and must rely more and more on the internet.  A bad sign of things to come.  I think the newer generation lacks the patients that is required to build a model - its the \"instant gratification\" generation!  What\'s easier than paint something that\'s already been made! (sorry, no offense to the amazing customizers on this site) - its more a stab at the lazier younger generation.

384736[/snapback]

Well, I do agree with what your saying about the Yammies, but it could be possible to make them just as detailed as a Hase. In doing so it does bridge a gap of models and toys, kind of what Taka was attempting in the 80\'s. Only Yamato is doing a better job of it.

I would have to say (for me personally) buying a toy is only a factor of gratification, not really being lazy or young. Models require time, diligence, and patience. A toy, well it\'s just a toy.

[nightmareB4macross]

I like how you ended your first post with, \"**Toys Rule!!\"

That makes your argument not only legitimate but respectable as well.  You could have gone the extra mile by replacing the \"s\" in \"Toys\" with a \"z\", for added emphasis on the cool/hip factor. 

For ex:

**Toyz rule!!

And if you want to be totally superfly, try popping that \"z\" in at the end of \"rule\" and see your naysayers bow in the presence of absolute knowledge.

For ex:

**Toyz rulez!!

384750[/snapback]

Damn Straight!!!

[azrhino]

I have to admit that, until I joined MW, I didn't even know that people

repainted toys or customized them. I saw some repaint jobs at MW Con

last year that were incredible.

I prefer models over toys, but it still takes artistic skill to repaint and

modify a toy to make it look less "toylike".

Edited March 28, 2006 by azrhino

[JKeats]

I like how you ended your first post with, \"**Toys Rule!!\"

That makes your argument not only legitimate but respectable as well.  You could have gone the extra mile by replacing the \"s\" in \"Toys\" with a \"z\", for added emphasis on the cool/hip factor. 

For ex:

**Toyz rule!!

And if you want to be totally superfly, try popping that \"z\" in at the end of \"rule\" and see your naysayers bow in the presence of absolute knowledge.

For ex:

**Toyz rulez!!

384750[/snapback]

Damn Straight!!!

384757[/snapback]

I... forget it.

[neptunesurvey]

**TOYS RULE!!

384655[/snapback]

Where are the mods. Such foul language must not be allowed!

[memnon]

HISSSSSSS!

Amen brother!

While I agree that 'toys' these days are indeed getting better at looks and quality, they are in the end, just toys. However I completely recognize the amazing talents that are out there who customize these toys. Having said that I do own a couple 21st Century Toys' 1/18 scale offerings, a German Panther and a M2A2 Halftrack.

Thanks for the nod Noyhauser!

[Chas]

I think your argument is flawed in a number of places. But let me just deal with what I think is the major one.

You state that

I just went by an observation of the most current mags posted on MW. This was only meant towards MACROSS VFs and the choice modellers are taking by using the 1/48 TOY platform.

What you fail to consider here is the fact that the magazinnes in question are discussing the newest, most recent, releases in Macross merchandise and not neccessarily those most popular with model builders.

(better to fill your mag. with pics of the latest, newest stuff than yet more customs of models that either everyone has, or that are no longer available. Plus as a magazine you have tokeep certain people (your advertisers) happy.)

You see, I suspect that, the reason these mags. have articles about customizing toys is becaue while it is a legitimate hobbby that is closely associated with model building it is also a way for them to talk about the newly released Macross merchandise. Newer is sexier in the competitive world of magazines.

If you actually look closely at the magazines you'll see that the most recent issues, on the whole, deal with the merchandise as it's been released. And there have been a lot more new toy releases than model releases. The latest large scale legit. Macross model realeses have been the Hase. kits and of those the Mac zero stuff and the Mags in question deal with them in that order.

Just wait untill the Hase. and wave VF-0 battroids hit the stores. Then have a look and see what the mags have featured.

It is flawed to use a commercial endeavor, such as a magazine, to judge what is happenning in a social, cultural activity without taking into consideration the forces and pressures that control and constrict that commercial endeavour.

The next time you want to make a sweeping judgement about what is happening in a cultural activity read some sociology texts and learn to avoid such inane, and immature pitfalls first.

[Graham]

Because models are too FRA(SNAP)GILE and WEAK to handle. A toy on the otherhand is meant to be played with or displayed, depending on the owner.

384693[/snapback]

Comparing models to toys is really comparing apples to oranges.

Toys and models are not in competition with each other. They are designed to appeal to completely different fanbases.

Although, it could be said that Bandai's Gundam plastic models with their snap-fit construction, pre-coloured plastic parts, multiple points of articulation and toy-like level of detail have blured the line somewhat between toys and model kits. However, despite being slightly more sturdy that traditional plastic model kits by manufacturers such as Hasegawa, Bandai's kits are still relatively fragile and cannot match toys for sturdiness. Neither do they match the level of detail of traditional model kits, making them neither fish nor fowl.

But anyway, I digress...................

nightmreB4macross, you seem to be missing the point that models are not relly meant to be played with, especially traditional style plastic model kits.

If you want something sturdy to play with, buy a toy. If you want a fine looking display piece that will give you joy and satisfaction in the process of building, then buy and build a model kit, it's as simple as that. Toys and model kits both have their place and both serve their respective purpose very well. It's not a case of one being better than the other. Both have different purposes and both can exist alongside the other. There's room in this world for both toys and models.

Although I'm a dyed-in-the-wool toy guy, I'll admit that the even most state of the art toys, such as the 1/48 VF-1 or 1/60 VF-0 cannot come close to a well built model kit for detail or realism.

While custom toys such as the many wonderful custom 1/48s on this site look absolutely fantastic, they still will never look as good as a carefully built model kit that a skilled model builder has taken time to fit, sand, putty and paint well.

Graham

[Gabe Q]

The pictures of the Yamatos in the articles are fantastic and look far better that the Hasegawas.

384655[/snapback]

You're telling me that, done in the same scheme, a Yamato custom looks better than a Hasegawa. That's ridiculous, to the point that I want to ridicule you.

Let's take the Blue Roses custom theme, for example. This theme is the most popular, I believe. When comparing photographs of the two, it is obvious that the Hasegawa blows the Yamato out of the water in terms of detail and level of realism.

While I'll admit the Yamatos have advanced toys in terms of detail and construction since the days of the chunky monkey, the Hasegawas have elevated models to new heights as well.

Purely in terms of aesthetics, the Hasegawas win, hands down.

[EXO]

I'm closing this thread based on the fact that I don't like Tim Burton movies...