Valkyrie Development History from Hobby Handbook

[Aurel Tristen]

This will be part of the Nanashi's VF-1 Valkyrie manual.... this was actually translated two years ago-can't wait any longer to show everyone. This is from Macross Model World/Hobby Handbook 1. Enjoy. Here it is:

http://manuals.macrossmecha.info/vf1/fact/...tory/index.html

For personal viewing. Please do not copy or redistribute. This version is printer-friendly.

[TheLoneWolf]

Amazing work, Nanashi! This should be required reading for all Macross fans.

Hmm, no VF-0.

[Radd]

Another wonderful translation! Thanks much!

[hevangel2]

Wow..... that's awesome.

Can't wait to see the complete work got translated.

[Gubaba]

Very, very nice. Thank you!

[Pat S]

Where's the VF-0? Just kidding.

[Gerwalker]

Thanks once again Nanashi!! I know that this was discussed before but... have you noticed the light in the VF-1A head visor? So the MPC is based on official Studio Nue artwork????????

[Lindem Herz]

In February 2009, the third model exploded after it flew into the highest level of atmosphere. Captain N. Blackstone of the Navy was the pilot on that flight and he was killed in the line of duty.

Man, they killed off their director!

Oh, BTW, wasn't the valkyries supposed to be already developed by that date? (It IS the month the big bad aliens came down, isn't it?)

[Mr March]

Interesting albiet difficult reading. Thanks WJ (or should I say Nanashi?)

[MjrMisaHayase]

Happy belated birthday, Nanashi.

[Angel's Fury]

Interesting! Keep the info flowing and Happy belated birthday, Nanashi!

Edited October 3, 2003 by Angel's Fury

[Abombz!!]

Eh? They had to pick up an egg to pass the test? Talk about high precision machinery!

[bsu legato]

Those are some great pictures in that article! I love the two scared civilians screaming at the big "monster." Thanks, Nanashi!

[rocco_77]

Hey that was pretty cool. Thanks for the read.

I love seeing the backstory stuff, especially when it describes the creation of the mecha.

[Aegis!]

So from what I gather the VF-1A was already fully developed and under testing long before Macross Zero ( by 2009 they were mainly having trouble with the engines , just as it is said in M0 ...so much for lack of continuity ), meaning that either the VF-0 is an enhanced VF-1 altered for conventional engines and OT tests or is a totally new model that had to be designed for conventional engines so to test newly discovered OT (i.e. the cyclops radar was relatively new by the time of M0 , just see Ep.1).

I see it this way , by the time of the Mayan conflict the UN was still doing test in the new Thermonuclear engines , hence the VF-0 couldn't have used them , mean that the UN couldn't delay more the deployment of the new VF-0 hence it was altered for the use of conventional engines (they could do this with the VF-1 since it was solely developed for Thermonuclear engines while the VF-0 was a test fighter ).

At least that's what I've concluded after seeing this.

[imode]

Eh? They had to pick up an egg to pass the test? Talk about high precision machinery!

It's like the Mighty Ducks training course for Battroid pilots.

[Abombz!!]

So from what I gather the VF-1A was already fully developed and under testing long before Macross Zero ( by 2009 they were mainly having trouble with the engines , just as it is said in M0 ...so much for lack of continuity ), meaning that either the VF-0 is an enhanced VF-1 altered for conventional engines and OT tests or is a totally new model that had to be designed for conventional engines so to test newly discovered OT (i.e. the cyclops radar was relatively new by the time of M0 , just see Ep.1).

I see it this way , by the time of the Mayan conflict the UN was still doing test in the new Thermonuclear engines , hence the VF-0 couldn't have used them , mean that the UN couldn't delay more the deployment of the new VF-0 hence it was altered for the use of conventional engines (they could do this with the VF-1 since it was solely developed for Thermonuclear engines while the VF-0 was a test fighter ).

At least that's what I've concluded after seeing this.

For one reason or another... I always found the 0 to be nothing but a VF1 built around a larger conventional engine.

[Aegis!]

For one reason or another... I always found the 0 to be nothing but a VF1 built around a larger conventional engine. 

Was there any doubt about that ? What I've been wondering about for months is this two questions :

- When did the UN decided to develop the VF-0 ?

And

- Why specificly ?

It would be fairly obvious that any VF developed right after the VF-1 would be at the very least quite similar in design to the VF-1 since they didn't haven any other design to base newer VFs on.

If those peope that say the VF-0 is nothing more than a VF-1 prototype are right then why did the UN develop the VF-0 in the fisrt place if the VF-1 had already been developed and the first functional VF-1A had already been tested long before the VF-0 appeared on scene ? why would they be making tests for the development of the VF-1 with the VF-0 if VF-1 was already tested and in their way out of the factories ? why would they deploy the VF-0 to Mayan unless they were on a hurry and the only functional VFs that they had were the testbed VF-0s ?

If the only functional VFs in existence during the Sharon Apple incident were the two SuperNova YFs (i'm not at all saying they were , is just a theory) , wouldn't it be smarter to deploy those two instead of waiting months for some other VF to come out ?

If the VF-0 was the only thing they had at the moment because they were making test for post-VF-1 variable fighters , then why wouldn't they fit some conventional engines in the VF-0 so it could be deployed faster ?

Yes , they could've deployed VF-1s but there's a difference in altering the design of mass production VF that is being manufactured and altering the design of a test fighter that is open to many alterations during its development.

[Abombz!!]

- When did the UN decided to develop the VF-0 ?

And

- Why specificly ?

When? Ask Kawamori.

Why? My guess is that the Spacy got word that the anti UN had their own variable fighters and was ready to deploy them on key locations against critical UN targets. The VF1 wasn't ready mainly because the engines hadn't been perfected. I guess they figured out that, having mastered the variable technology, all they needed to do is put together a variable fighter using technology they had already perfected... that was the variable nature of the craft and the conventional engines.

[ewilen]

Aegis is resurrecting a thread on the old boards, which began with people asking if the VF-0 looked more advanced than the VF-1 and segued into an argument over whether the VF-0 is supposed to be a prototype for the VF-1 that was pressed into service, or a test bed for advanced (post-VF-1 production) technology.

Aegis's argument rests mainly on the fact that the dates in the official Chronology don't match up well with M0 if the VF-0 is supposed to be a VF-1 prototype. This new material reinforces his case, but it doesn't really add anything new since we already knew what the "old" official line was on VF-1 development. The counterargument, I think, remains the same: Kawamori and/or the official M0 site have called the the VF-0 a "prototype" ("predecessor"?) to the VF-1 Valkyrie.

We can hope this will all be cleared up by the last episode. Personally, I think the existing timeline will be revised and the Valkyrie development story will be "officially" fleshed out by Macross Zero. But Aegis could be right, especially since the whole M0 story is supposed to be a "top secret", which would explain some of the discrepancies with existing material.

Edited October 3, 2003 by ewilen

[Nightbat]

Well call me a simple mind, but I'd guess developping conventional engines for an existing airframe (i.e. VF1) is easier than developping a new airframe around an existing engine

or someone could tell me the VF1 is too heavy for conventional engines to leave the ground

[Mr March]

Not at all. The VF-1 is remarkably light even for a non-transformable jet fighter. The VF-1's normal take-off mass is 18.5 tons. By way of comparison an F-14 Tomcat has a TO mass of 26.55 tons while an F/A-18 Hornet has a TO mass of 15.23 tons. Considering the VF-1 has much more powerful engines, more computer systems, and variable hardware, it's astounding how the UN Spacy was able to design such a versatile yet light-weight variable fighter.

[imode]

Don't forget it's quite a bit smaller than an F-14.

[Radd]

Well call me a simple mind, but I'd guess developping conventional engines for an existing airframe (i.e. VF1) is easier than developping a new airframe around an existing engine

or someone could tell me the VF1 is too heavy for conventional engines to leave the ground

Actually, when the alternate engines are so much larger than the engines the plane was made for, it is easier just to build a new plane. In fact, it would probably be required. Possibly not so for a conventional plane (but I think so), but most definitely for a variable fighter like the VF-1.

My belief is that the VF-0 was designed with conventional engines in mind. Nothing else explains the size of the craft and the fuel tanks. How easy do you think it is to just add things like that to an existing plane?

Also, we have no clue when the VF-0 "first came on the scene". We know when it was deployed for the Mayan conflict. that's it. We knew there was a small number of working VF-1 prototypes, but mass production of the engines was having some problems. For all we know they pulled these prototypes, which were designed around conventional engines, dusted them off and sent them into battle while waiting on the nuclear engines promised for the finished product. Probably because they were easier to convert to battle readiness than the VF-1 prototypes with the nuclear engines.

Also, everyone remember Kawamori's statement about continuity? I think we've been reading that in the wrong light. Perhaps what he meant was that he wasn't going to follow the non-animated continuity (as in written timelines and back stories that were written for the production of the show), as nothing in Macross Zero conflicts with SDF Macross or DYRL?, and we know Kawamori's current vision of Space War 1 is somewhere between the two.

[myk]

That's great reading-thanks for the material Nanashi.....

[robokochan]

That was just simply amazing! You are a true asset to the Macross Community and to this Forum! Thank You again!.

BTW did you get that info from the VF-1 Angel-Birds Book? If so I am definately buying it!

Rob

[Aurel Tristen]

That was just simply amazing! You are a true asset to the Macross Community and to this Forum! Thank You again!.

BTW did you get that info from the VF-1 Angel-Birds Book? If so I am definately buying it!

Rob

No, this information from the Macross Hobby Handbook 1.

Thank you everyone for your replies. : )

[Aegis!]

Also, we have no clue when the VF-0 "first came on the scene". We know when it was deployed for the Mayan conflict. that's it. We knew there was a small number of working VF-1 prototypes, but mass production of the engines was having some problems. For all we know they pulled these prototypes, which were designed around conventional engines, dusted them off and sent them into battle while waiting on the nuclear engines promised for the finished product. Probably because they were easier to convert to battle readiness than the VF-1 prototypes with the nuclear engines.

If they are indeed VF-1 prototypes them why are there more than 24 VF-0s and just about a handful of VF-1A prototypes ?

Do you really think that number of VFs were neccesary to test the VF-1 design ? particullarly when the two designs vary so much because of the engine's dimensions ?

Why would they do tests for the VF-1 using the VF-0 if the design is , although aesthetically similar , quite different ? Furthermore , why would they be doing tests for the VF-1 in 2008 if the VF-1s were one step away from being released from the factories (i.e. the engines ) ?

Isn't it more feasible for the UN to deploy the VF-0 from this paralel testbed proggrame than waste high-budget Vf-1s from the factories ?

[ewilen]

Aegis, your strongest argument comes from the chronology. The fact that there are a couple dozen VF-0's doesn't impress me, though. First of all, if it seems strange to have 24+ VF-1 "prototypes", it's also strange to have 24+ "test beds for advanced technology beyond the VF-1".

BTW, I put "prototype" in quotes because as you state, the VF-0 is too different from a VF-1. (For that matter, if it was a prototype, why isn't it a YF?) I think the VF-0 is a "proof of concept" design originally intended to be built in small numbers while the VF-1 engines were being developed; when the VF-1 program stalled, additional aircraft were built.

Another possibility, which makes the VF-0 more of a parallel program, is that there was no VF-0 originally planned, but it was developed in a crash program when the UN caught wind of the SV development program and realized it needed a fallback in case the VF-1 wasn't ready due to the engine problems. But this doesn't agree with the Compendium, which calls the VF-0 a "trial production model and testbed for advanced jet engines and Overtechnology designed for future variable fighters."

In the past, you've argued that the "future variable fighters" means fighters after the VF-1, and you may be right, but I'm more inclined to agree with Radd.

[Aegis!]

if it seems strange to have 24+ VF-1 "prototypes", it's also strange to have 24+ "test beds for advanced technology beyond the VF-1".

It is not strange to have 24+ testebeds when the VF-0 is reffered as a trial production fighter , and secondly the VF-1 is mentioned to barely have around 5 prototypes , all of which were developed and tested (using thermonuclear engines) long before the VF-0 was deployed , so where's the need to produce 24+ prototypes which use conventional engines ?

I think the VF-0 is a "proof of concept" design originally intended to be built in small numbers

Problem is , the VF design had already been tested and proved to be feasible by the VF-X and VF-X-1 prototypes , moreover , the design was further developed with the VF-1A prototype that is mentioned to have flown in November 29th of 2006 , two years before the ''proof of concept'' VF-0 was first deployed.

In the past, you've argued that the "future variable fighters" means fighters after the VF-1, and you may be right, but I'm more inclined to agree with Radd.

If we're to quote the Compendium then :

STRUCTURE: Due to AWAG/RA 105 SW-AG energy converting armor which uses Overtechnology, the VF-0 can employ surplus power to triple the Fighter mode's armor strength in Battroid mode. (Future variable fighters will incorporate similar technology.)

If the VF-1 has no SW-AG energy converting armour then what ''Future Variable Fighters'' might they be reffering to ? If I recall well , the only future variable fighters that use some kind of energy converting armour are the to AVF developed in the SuperNova project (i.e. YF-19 & 21).

So , no , the VF-1 cannot possibly be categorized under the ''future variable fighters'' category ; specially when the VF-1 has (as said in the OVA itslef)already passed the developmental stages and is already in the factories.

Aegis, your strongest argument comes from the chronology

I would like to think it comes from common sense

[Oihan]

Is that all of it? Or is there more to come? I really enjoyed the read!

[joseph]

Because not this Roy Focker in Valkyrie Development History?

[mikeszekely]

While the first VF-1A flew in 2006 (although the Compendium has it listed as the VF-X-1's first flight as 2007, with the first VF-1A's not actually going into production until December of 2008) it seems they had problems with the engines right up until 2009.

It's possible that the VF-0 was originally built, perhaps in smaller numbers, as a sort of re-designed VF-1 to use conventional engines BUT to test other areas of the VF-X development. Like say, transformation. I'd assume that they'd want more reliable engines for testing something like that. Then, when they got word that the Anti-UN had a working variable fighter, they retooled the design to get it combat ready, maybe built a few more, then sent it off to war. During it's role in the VF-X program, it might have been considered a YF or VF-X plane. But, having fulfilled whatever test duties it had, and now being used for actual combat, it might then be reclassified as VF-0.

The Compendium doesn't say anything about the VF-0 being a test bed for technology beyond the VF-1. It says that it's a testbed and trial production model for advanced jet engines and Overtechnology designed for future variable fighters. If the VF-0 is a page from the same VF-X program that gave us the VF-1, then any technology tested could indeed apply to the VF-1. Overtechnology is a broad term... it could refer to the SW-AG, the cyclops radar, or even the transformation system itself. Simple fact is, we don't know enough about the VF-0. We don't know if it was built from scratch long into VF-1 development, or if it was part of the VF-X program, or what. We know that when the VF-0 is deployed, the VF-1 is just about finished, but we don't know how old the VF-0 is by that time, either. If it was built to be a testbed, then adopted for combat later, it could still be older than the VF-1. I'm still inclined to believe that the VF-0 and the VF-1 have common roots, and that the VF-0 is either older than the VF-1, or a production model of something older than the VF-1. Although the Compendium doesn't explicity say that other VFs incorporate SW-AG technology, I don't think that Egan cares to go back and add it to to all the variable fighter entries, and I think that Kawamori implied it. It explains things like why all Hikaru's crashing into buildings at the beginning of Macross TV didn't do any damage to his Battroid. I don't think it's a reference to the pin-point barriers used on the AVFs, because they're clearly scaled-down versions of the pin-point barrier they accidentally discovered on the Macross much later.

[Radd]

Mikeszekely summed up my thoughts pretty well. I'd also like to reiterate that technology mentioned and shown for the VF-0 could indeed be incorporated into the VF-1, but was just never mentioned previously.

Also, keep in mind that when it comes to Macross Zero, the Compendium, unfortunately, comes into question.

At this time I don't think we should discount anything that's in the Compendium, but I think we should strongly consider the idea that there's information about the VF-0 that's not yet in the Compendium. I mean, this part of the chronology is brand new. The show's not even done yet, and last I heard, Kawamori was still writing it.

[ewilen]

Aegis, your strongest argument comes from the chronology

I would like to think it comes from common sense

Since you're in the minority here, it's a most-uncommon kind of common sense

I'll add that, depending on what the creators of M0 think their target audience is, common sense would say that the VF-0 has to be a prototype of the VF-1 (or as Mike says, a production version of a test aircraft in the VF-1 program). Because I'm sure that all this stuff from the Chronology is just too obscure for 90%+ of the people watching M0. What I would expect of the average viewer is that they've seen most of the previous series/OVAs/movies, but they haven't paid attention to details of the Chronology. (Is there even a comprehensive Chronology easily available in Japanese, or would they have to dig through back issues of magazines to compile it?) From this perspective, the expectation in a prequel is that the VF-0 is a predecessor, slightly less advanced, of the VF-1. An important "hook" of the story is, basically, revelling in the evolution of the variable fighter concept and watching pilots adjust to it. A convoluted explanation of the VF-0 as being a parallel to the VF-1, even superior in ways, just won't be satisfying to that 90%+, even if it's explained to them. Which, incidentally, it hasn't been. You'd think that if the VF-0 contained technology more advanced than a VF-1, we'd hear about it early on just so people would get it straight. And there'd also likely be something about it when Roy is talking to the engineer--something about, "You can't have the fusion engines right now, but as a tradeoff you'll get the SW-AG armor that's not going to be in the VF-1."