Zero

[reddsun1]

Oh yeah, I meant to ask for clarification on something in ep. 1, I think: when Roy's fighting DD and has to fend off a missile barrage, we see a close up of him glancing quickly from target to target. Are we to take it that Roy's skill is so great and his reflexes so fast in combat that his eyes are actually moving faster than the computer's own little red targeting dots? or is this some sort of target tracking interface that follows his head/eye movement, similar to the Apache chopper's?

[JB0]

Oh yeah, I meant to ask for clarification on something in ep. 1, I think: when Roy's fighting DD and has to fend off a missile barrage, we see a close up of him glancing quickly from target to target.  Are we to take it that Roy's skill is so great and his reflexes so fast in combat that his eyes are actually moving faster than the computer's own little red targeting dots? or is this some sort of target tracking interface that follows his head/eye movement, similar to the Apache chopper's?

384079[/snapback]

Targetting interface. The helmet has eye-tracking sensors that identify the selected targets based on eye motion(I don't see what he used to lock them in, though. Would've been neat if each lock was immediatly preceded by an eye blink to signal it was the next target in line.). It's an attempt to rationalize some excessively fancy moves seen in the prior entries(like shooting down missiles, uncoincidentally). Also gives an excuse for that really huge helmet spike.

Better yet... it's real-world tech. While the Apache tracks the helmet rather than the eye, Sony released camcorders with eye-tracking controls in the viewfinder a few years ago.

It'd make sense to integrate more intuitive interfaces in to military hardware as the technology becomes available, and this COULD be seen as an evolution of the Apache helmet-tracker.

What Roy WAS working faster than was the weapory's ability to execute those commands. He was entering new targets into a buffer while the laser turret was tracking to his first selection.

It's like Missile Command.

Edited March 26, 2006 by JB0

[reddsun1]

Oh, okay I see now. Just went back and watched that scene; saw the 3 little "projectors" in the top of Roy's helmet this time. That's what's so neat about works like these that pay so much attention to details. There's so many little things to see and to catch. You notice something new/different each time you watch these. That's the difference between good cinema and great cinema--it's the ones that pay that extra amount, put that extra effort into the little details that rise above the rest.

[JB0]

Oh, okay I see now.  Just went back and watched that scene; saw the 3 little "projectors" in the top of Roy's helmet this time.  That's what's so neat about works like these that pay so much attention to details.  There's so many little things to see and to catch.  You notice something new/different each time you watch these.  That's the difference between good cinema and great cinema--it's the ones that pay that extra amount, put that extra effort into the little details that rise above the rest.

384113[/snapback]

*nods*

And that's an area where Zero got a lot of points. It attempted to show off the technological side. They explain why a VF is so much more durable than it should be, how pilots can pull off stunts like shooting down missiles, and... ummm... had a Monster?

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I also thought the fight between the octos and battroid was handled nicely. You may not notice it at first but the method of fighting used mirrors the lessons roy teaches shin about transforming and changing to adapt.

Ie you see a half second image of the octopus using ink to blind a predator to defend itself (this was the same octopus mao showed shin) before Shin aims the head laser to destroy the camera of the octos and blind it. Or you have him transform into battroid and use the arms to restrain the octos at close range making good use of the robot mode to grapple the enemy so they can't escape, similar to the way shin keeps getting beaten in close combat in real life because he is too used to fighter mode only. (robots are useful as an amplification of a human's movement and power)

This is the part of the story where the character shows growth and matures. Changing from his old self to something new and gaining xp to beat the opposition who kicked his ass at the beginning.

Like SDF:Macross tv series, I thought macross zero did a lot to try and justify the different modes as being useful. So from a purely mecha coolness perspective it gets big points here. They try to link the valkyrie's ability with the ability in nature of those flying fish with wings. This was the joke at the end where shin dives into the water, and then rises up like those fish with wings as a way to say that he is more suited to being in the air/space with Sara.

Where mao is the strong swimmer of the two sisters and can hold her breath for long time, Sara inherited the ability to float and fly and levitate. So in a way the legend of the bird humans and fish humans is really an origin story/creation myth explaining how 'they' (PC) melded with us and how some of the priestesses might be chosen based on thier blood linking them to alien ancestors. Thier religion is very antiwar, anti military, and against technology because the pc would have come to earth to avoid the wars they had when they made the zentradi. So for them, technology must be forbidden.

It is only a matter of time before UN Spacy takes the technology itself to repeat the mistakes. (ie as you see the anti UN and UN fighting and killing to gain control of the AFOS)

So all this religious stuff and creation myth, and how things can be awakened through soundwaves and music is at least there for a reason. I think the "fish humans" were the normal humans on that island before the PC came to escape from the zentradi to start again, (see the myth in DYRL) while the birdhumans were the aliens who mated with fish humans and possibly provided cloning technology to make all the strange things you see like fish that fly which are limited to that island. (just a guess)

Edited March 26, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

Changing from his old self to something new and gaining xp ...

Pilot Shin gained a leve! Class up! Shin is now Birdman!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I wouldn't mind a Macross Zero MMORPG actually!

As shin your primary skills would be fighter mode and the more kills you get the better you become.

Battroid and gerwalk skills would have to be levelled up before the big boss fight against nora.

You could enter a training arena to sharpen your skills by challenging other pilots (ie when roy takes on all the noobs and kicks thier ass in the ova) and these would boost your stats. If you wreck the VF0 it takes time to repair it, (which makes your skills get worse and the enemies become tougher from having more time than you) and if you die the game ends and you got to start a new character.

Edited March 26, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

I wouldn't mind a Macross Zero MMORPG actually!

As shin your primary skills would be fighter mode and the more kills you get the better you become.

Battroid and gerwalk skills would have to be levelled up before the big boss fight against nora.

You could enter a training arena to sharpen your skills by challenging other pilots (ie when roy takes on all the noobs and kicks thier ass in the ova) and these would boost your stats. If you wreck the VF0 it takes time to repair it, (which makes your skills get worse and the enemies become tougher from having more time than you) and if you die the game ends and you got to start a new character.

384128[/snapback]

I'd roll Max Jenius and pwn everyone.

[bryan_f_davis@yahoo.com]

Zero is great fun.

I really loved the blend of CGI with 2D animation. In my opinion, it has the best opening sequence I'd ever seen. It just sucks you right in. And that dog fight was unlike anything I have ever seen before. Just amazing.

It was also a blast to see Roy again. A younger one at that. It really added to his character.

The anti-UN valks were amazing too.

But the Zero itself, stole the show. Man, I don't know how Macross constantly comes up with solid designs, but they do...

And the score was one of the best I've heard-almost as good as Plus.

Yeah, Zero is alot of fun. Some of my peeps who don't "understand" my obsession with Macross got sucked into Zero. I am hoping they will be more receptive to the rest of Macross.

Still looking for FLASHBACK. Anyone have any leads?

Thanks in advance!

[Mowe]

Actually, there was one minor disappointment with MZ.

When I heard it was going to be a prequel, I thought they might do a kick ass scene with Roy's 108 enermy fighters record. You know, something similar to Matrix where Neo boned a pile of Agent Smith. Roy could have done his Drunken Master moves...anyhow, I am still a happy man, but could have been happier...

It was also a blast to see Roy again.  A younger one at that.  It really added to his character. 

384564[/snapback]

[Sumdumgai]

I was hoping to see the VF-1 valks coming in at the end of the show and seeing Roy getting transfered to the Macross and seeing cameo appearances of the original series characters (Misa, Claudia, the bridge bunnies).

[kensei]

I'm not one to collect the enemy forces but would love to have a Zero facing off with DD's bird hope Yamy makes us a bad guy lol.

382532[/snapback]

Don't count on that ever happening.

382556[/snapback]

It would be actually funny if they made an AFOS toy.

I was hoping to see the VF-1 valks coming in at the end of the show and seeing Roy getting transfered to the Macross and seeing cameo appearances of the original series characters (Misa, Claudia, the bridge bunnies).

I would have loved to see that link too. It would complete the series, that it would.

Edited March 27, 2006 by kensei

[Garou Kuroryuu]

I was hoping to see the VF-1 valks coming in at the end of the show and seeing Roy getting transfered to the Macross and seeing cameo appearances of the original series characters (Misa, Claudia, the bridge bunnies).

384575[/snapback]

Totally agree!!!

That's one of the things that left an uneasy feeling when finished watching M0.

I was expecting at least one sight of the good-old Macross sitting on Ataria Island and to see at least one appeareance of anyone else from the original Macross series, particularly Claudia LaSalle (Roy's replacement for the good Dr.)

[RT junkie]

Sounds to me like the door is open for Macross 0.5 . Obvoiusly there was more to the Anti-UN forces than just Nora and DD.... There's definitely more room in the timeline for another chapter to stitch the 2 anime together a little more closely. They could show Hikaru as a boy in his racer, the final chapter in the UN/anti-UN fighting, Roy going through the test phase of the VF-1, the rebuilding effort of the SDF, and alternately, show some history of the Zentraedi, and the whole backstory to the SDF before it crashed on earth, while it was still in the hands of the alien crew. That's the part of the puzzle I'd like to see. What was the SDF in it's original form.......... This has probably all been hashed out in some other thread, but I typically don't venture into those regions of the forums.

[Knight26]

I was hoping to see the VF-1 valks coming in at the end of the show and seeing Roy getting transfered to the Macross and seeing cameo appearances of the original series characters (Misa, Claudia, the bridge bunnies).

384575[/snapback]

A lot of us specuated about the VF-1 showing up in the last episode, and that was when the Low-Vis came out so most people thought it was going to be a Low-Vis VF-1A. Sadly for whatever reason that did not happen, though some think it may have all been done in an effort to bring M0 stateside easier since there is no definite visual link between it and Macross.

[JB0]

Actually, there was one minor disappointment with MZ.

When I heard it was going to be a prequel, I thought they might do a kick ass scene with Roy's 108 enermy fighters record.  You know, something similar to Matrix where Neo boned a pile of Agent Smith.  Roy could have done his Drunken Master moves...anyhow, I am still a happy man, but could have been happier...  

384568[/snapback]

And his hair was too small.

[BinaryFalcon]

I hated that part. No attempt at justification whatsoever.

Frigging water-burning jet engines...

There was some justification, at least from what I remember in the translation I saw.

IIRC, it was mentioned that they only have a few minutes worth of underwater/sealed operation, and at some point I believe they showed the intakes sealing closed.

It should, in theory then, be possible to run the engines with an internally carried compressed air/O2 supply.

If you look at the thrust equation for gas turbine engines, most of the thrust in a turbojet engine (which is what the VF-0 series was using) comes from the weight of the fuel being burned, rather than the weight of the air. The engines are definitely what would be called "low bypass", perhaps 3 or 4:1 at most, vs a pure turbojet 1:1 (think of the original late 40s/early 50s jet engines) or the modern turbofan engines you find on airliners with a bypass ratio of 15:1 or more.

Of course, they didn't get quite that in depth with the technical bits in Macross Zero, but there are enough operational hints and comments given that it's at least as plausible as any other tech shown in use on the VF-0s.

So it didn't bug me at all, really.

Honestly, part of what I love so much about Macross Zero is that the VF-0s in the series really aren't all that far-fetched. IMO, we're actually pretty close to being able to build and fly something like that.

Granted, it wouldn't have the same mobility or combat capability of the example in the anime, but I'm nearly convinced that building a "convertible" type of aircraft like that is technically possible with little more than what we have available to us today.

Honestly, the biggest complication I see in making it happen would be reliably carrying and supplying sufficient fuel internally to make it all work or provide any worthwhile amount of range.

Structural strength issues during conversion could likely be overcome (or at least gotten around) by setting airspeed limits on changes between modes (much like current aircraft have flap and gear extension/retraction limits). Jet engines capable of delivering megawatts of power are currently in development, IIRC, as well as directed energy weapons small enough to be mounted on fighters (F-35).

Flight computers and fly by wire systems have long since had the controllability issues worked out, and even the publicly available information about the capabilities of modern sensor packages is both amazing and a bit scary.

There have been significant advances in bipedal robotic balance systems in recent years as well, so that hurdle has nearly, if not fully, been overcome at this point too.

I really think that if anyone (read a gov't) cared enough to fund it and make it happen, we could have something quite similar in concept flying within the next 10 or so years.

Edited March 27, 2006 by BinaryFalcon

[David Hingtgen]

Turbojets have NO bypass ratio. 0:1.

3:1 or 4:1 is actually "high" bypass.

Anything really high like 10:1 is usually called "ultra-high" bypass.

1:1 is a low bypass turbofan. Most modern fighter jets are this.

0.1:1 up to about 0.5:1 is "really low" and generally called "leaky turbojets"

I'm not following the "thrust derived from weight of fuel vs weight of air" at all. That sounds more like fuel efficiency, specifically the SFC number. (Which is amount of thrust produced based on weight of fuel burned). High-energy/density fuels are more efficient but no more powerful.

For a jet running at cruise (assume 80-90% thrust), my book says 98% air, 2% fuel, by mass. A 747 may consume gallons of fuel per second at takeoff, but the air it sucks in is measured in TONS per second.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Can't wait for the yamato 1/60 floating rocks.

[Sumdumgai]

Only if they glow.