Fast Pack Or No Fast Pack?

[Sumdumgai]

lol yeah, the yellow on the VF-1S is this super protective armor that makes the veritechs faster... ' _____ '

What JBO said. I add that Robotech sucks.

[Awacs]

I'm noticing a common theme here... The VF-1 FAST packs don't add armor. That's a RawBootEck-ism.

They're full of fuel and explosive weaponry. A hit on a loaded FAST pack is probably going to blow off whatever it's attached to.

381935[/snapback]

Considering how easily Cannon Fodders tend to blow up in the series its fair to say that the best defense in Macross is avoiding being hit in the first place rather than trying to soak up the impact with armour. So the extra re-mass and ammunition are probably better than toting around the mass of armour in any case. At least the extra reaction mass reserves allows you to burn harder and the extra firepower might allow you to put down your attackers before they do the same to you.

Karl

[JB0]

I'm noticing a common theme here... The VF-1 FAST packs don't add armor. That's a RawBootEck-ism.

They're full of fuel and explosive weaponry. A hit on a loaded FAST pack is probably going to blow off whatever it's attached to.

381935[/snapback]

Considering how easily Cannon Fodders tend to blow up in the series its fair to say that the best defense in Macross is avoiding being hit in the first place rather than trying to soak up the impact with armour. So the extra re-mass and ammunition are probably better than toting around the mass of armour in any case. At least the extra reaction mass reserves allows you to burn harder and the extra firepower might allow you to put down your attackers before they do the same to you.

Karl

381941[/snapback]

Yeah. I was just pointing out that they aren't actually adding any durability.

The GBP does, but it's built for a diffrent purpose than the FAST packs.

[KingNor]

I was under the impression that the "Super" upgrade included at least enough armor to make the plane from being MORE vunerable than the standard VF.

Personally, the VF-1 with super setup looks pretty sweet. It's bulky and mean.

A thing for me was that i always though the Super Valkyrie was something that the SDF-1 crew had come up with, maybe built from extra parts.

Fast packs being a standard unspacey thing is a little less cool.

[Sdf-1]

Definitely VF-1 + FP for me. It makes them look a lot more aggressive and bigger. But of course they are good without FP too.

[VF-18S Hornet]

Well I deffinately like any Valkyrie with Fast Packs

[Fortress_Maximus]

Enjoy both so it really doesn't matter to moi.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I'm noticing a common theme here... The VF-1 FAST packs don't add armor. That's a RawBootEck-ism.

They're full of fuel and explosive weaponry. A hit on a loaded FAST pack is probably going to blow off whatever it's attached to.

Ah never knew this. I thought it might have added a bit more protection too. (I guess that is what the shield and PPB is for in later valks) I always wondered why some people kept reffering to the Super Valk parts as arm "armor" and leg "armor" when it wasn't designed to protect..

As for bulkiness = more agressive: I think it makes the valk looks cooler in a "more firepower means stronger offense and more damage in shorter time, therefore faster kills" sense, than because the "chunky pack makes it meaner and heavier" sense. (one of the reasons I like the big cannon equiped mech designs)

But I still love them skinny valks and prefer them to be fast and light in fighter mode. (the vf1 fast packs are so heavy looking that it is almost seems oversized) I also imagine that being light in robot mode means they move around faster in enclosed space like how a slower race car with low top speed might have better cornering ability and tighter handling, and can strafe and hover with less effort, but thier main weapon (gunpod) up close is all that is necessary to penetrate the armor of anything the zentradi throw at humans. (so extra backpack weapons like strike cannon is unecessary in this sense and would just go to waste - who needs that much firepower if the enemy dies quick with a lighter weapon?)

Theres also the question of whether a pilot will fly around at the fastest speed in the first place, or have the skill to fight at topspeed to make thier total number of enemy shots higher. (so will the weight and bulk just get in the way?)

It's why I say adding so much chunky extra stuff just highlights that the early valks were slow and weak compared to later ones that didn't need the extra booster for speed. (and good for both atmosphere and space combat due to better engine. They can just fly from earth into space with no extra booster on thier backs whilst still having a small profile and being generally harder to hit targets for slower mecha)

Edited March 22, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[connor99]

I'm noticing a common theme here... The VF-1 FAST packs don't add armor. That's a RawBootEck-ism.

They're full of fuel and explosive weaponry. A hit on a loaded FAST pack is probably going to blow off whatever it's attached to.

381935[/snapback]

Considering how easily Cannon Fodders tend to blow up in the series its fair to say that the best defense in Macross is avoiding being hit in the first place rather than trying to soak up the impact with armour. So the extra re-mass and ammunition are probably better than toting around the mass of armour in any case. At least the extra reaction mass reserves allows you to burn harder and the extra firepower might allow you to put down your attackers before they do the same to you.

Karl

381941[/snapback]

I totally agree with this. I think the SDF-1 crew, upon seeing how well armed the ZENTRAEDI units are, decided the best way to eliminate the enemy is to hit them fast and to hit them hard, things they were able to do with the help of the FP's on their valks.

[Sundown]

Love them both. No fast packs for the sheer elegance of the VF-1, uncluttered by strapped on extras, and the utilitarian, cumbersome, butt-kickingness of the fast packs for the special occasion when you just need to lay down the smack. No fast packs also reminds me of the ground battles with the valks in battroid, and fast packs on land just seems kind of ungainly, especially in urban combat. Basically whatever the mission calls for, and I'd hate to settle for one or the other.

But if I had to pick one that I had to look at forever, as a toy to display or something, it'd be the VF-1 without fastpacks.

[JB0]

... thier main weapon (gunpod) up close is all that is necessary to penetrate the armor of anything the zentradi throw at humans. (so extra backpack weapons like strike cannon is unecessary in this sense and would just go to waste - who needs that much firepower if the enemy dies quick with a lighter weapon?)

The strike cannon(and head laser) has one major advantage over the gunpod.

It's got an unlimited ammo supply as long as the plane has electrical power.

I'm actually surprised they're still using projectile weaponry as the primary weapon into the Macross 7 era.

Theres also the question of whether a pilot will fly around at the fastest speed in the first place, or have the skill to fight at topspeed to make thier total number of enemy shots higher. (so will the weight and bulk just get in the way?)

A highly skileld space pilot won't fly at top speed all the time(actually, top speed isn't really a concept that applies to space flight).

The more speed you have, the harder it is to change direction. So for a Macross-style dogfight, slower is actually better since you can make drastic heading changes rapidly.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The more speed you have, the harder it is to change direction. So for a Macross-style dogfight, slower is actually better since you can make drastic heading changes rapidly.

Well I got the idea that inside the SDF1 when max was facing off against the bigger Qrau in one of the episodes of the tv series, that Milia wouldn't really rely so much on homing missiles because of the indoor-sy-ness of the environment and that both of them needed good directed weapon accuracy. (rather than fire as many micromissile swarms and run away)

But having extra bulk might slow down your movements and stuff and going too fast might just mean you bump into things. Same thing with in DYRL when max fights milia inside her ship in a corridor. Really you would want to dodge quickly and keep a smalle profile, maybe shoot from the side while dashing in another direction. In this instance a big cannon might not be as easy to direct as a hand carried weapon would be because if you think about it, the whole thing is just hanging over your shoulder. (you would have to orient your whole body just to get a solid direct hit)

.....But a machine gun!.... now that would drastically increase your hit ratio at close range. (directing the gun would be much easier because the weapon is in your hands) Maybe in this instance having a massive backpack on your back is just going to make moving around a big problem.

Flying around in space I can totally see the need for speed to outfly these missile swarms (that is if you don't want to shoot them down) but in urban built-up area or inside, where missiles might hit obstacles in your way rather than the enemy, having a backpack full of these heavy things and a big cannon which is hard to aim and only shoots directly ahead of you, is unecessary. If I were a valk pilot I would just eject the uneeded baggage and continue the fight that way with just a machine gun, for survival reasons. (half the battle is dodging enemy fire and making it harder for the enemy to shoot you, so skinny is good in certain situations)

Edited March 22, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[azrael]

I'm actually surprised they're still using projectile weaponry as the primary weapon into the Macross 7 era.

I think we went into this a while back. Cost and effectiveness of beam weapons doesn't quite match that of your standard projectile weapons.

[JB0]

The more speed you have, the harder it is to change direction. So for a Macross-style dogfight, slower is actually better since you can make drastic heading changes rapidly.

Well I got the idea that inside the SDF1 when max was facing off against the bigger Qrau in one of the episodes of the tv series, that Milia wouldn't really rely so much on homing missiles because of the indoor-sy-ness of the environment and that both of them needed good directed weapon accuracy. (rather than fire as many micromissile swarms and run away)

Yah. In close quarters, the Macross Missile Strike just doesn't work. A traditional straight-flying missile would, but since they weren't packing those(and the QRau lacks straight-fire launchers anyways), it came down to guns and lasers.

But having extra bulk might slow down your movements and stuff and going too fast might just mean you bump into things. Same thing with in DYRL when max fights milia inside her ship in a corridor. Really you would want to dodge quickly and keep a smalle profile, maybe shoot from the side while dashing in another direction. In this instance a big cannon might not be as easy to direct as a hand carried weapon would be because if you think about it, the whole thing is just hanging over your shoulder. (you would have to orient your whole body just to get a solid direct hit)

Good point.

I think the VF-17 and YF-21/VF-22 arm-mounted weapons were a good solution to that problem. Possibly a direct response to it.

The head turret either didn't track fast enough or lacked a certain degree of kick(probably the latter). For whatever reason it seemed to be rarely used.

.....But a machine gun!.... now that would drastically increase your hit ratio at close range. (directing the gun would be much easier because the weapon is in your hands) Maybe in this instance having a massive backpack on your back is just going to make moving around a big problem.

The FAST pack actually has other advantages in battroid mode, though.

The battroid seems to have a lot less thrust from the main engines than other modes, which hinders it's mobility in some regards. The FAST pack gives it the ability to do some GERWALK-style maneuvering without losing time to a transformation. If the nozzles were redirectable(like in Macross 2036's non-cannon VF-1xR series), it would expand on that capacity. While the ability to do a Macross Plus-style boost punch is of questionable utility, the "dash" move attached to that punch isn't.

Flying around in space I can totally see the need for speed to outfly these missile swarms (that is if you don't want to shoot them down)

You can't outrun a missile. Realistically you can't outmaneuver a missile either.

Acceleration is good, though.

Wait until they're almost on you, then rapidly change velocity and they'll detonate where you WERE instead of where you ARE. The nature of the VF-1 makes the largest acceleration possible in the direction the nosecone is pointing, especially with FAST packs.

Rapid velocity change against the nose is also possible through quick application of GERWALK mode or the retro-verniers. Without FAST packs, these are equally valid as a rapid forward boost. Should also be able to boost "upwards" with GERWALK, though I never saw that done in the show. Again, in a non-FAST-pack situation, that's equally valid as boosting forward.

What's ALSO never shown in the anime is flying oriented along any axis other than direction of flight. Since there's essentially no drag in space, there's no need for constant thrust along your axis of flight, and you're free to point the plane in any direction you wish while cruising along. This also leaves you capable of less predictable motion, since you won't be boosting along your axis of flight.

but in urban built-up area or inside, where missiles might hit obstacles in your way rather than the enemy, having a backpack full of these heavy things and a big cannon which is hard to aim and only shoots directly ahead of you, is unecessary. If I were a valk pilot I would just eject the uneeded baggage and continue the fight that way with just a machine gun, for survival reasons. (half the battle is dodging enemy fire and making it harder for the enemy to shoot you, so skinny is good in certain situations)

Good point. Especially since gravity is likely coming into play in an urban battleground.

Like I said, though, there's other reasons to want FAST packs in a ground battle.

I suspect that's why the GBP had the backpack boosters built-in, given it was designed explicitly FOR ground combat.

I'm actually surprised they're still using projectile weaponry as the primary weapon into the Macross 7 era.

I think we went into this a while back. Cost and effectiveness of beam weapons doesn't quite match that of your standard projectile weapons.

382934[/snapback]

Which makes sense until you consider that they're packing more and stronger energy weapons into the later VFs anyways. So they're eating the cost of energy weaponry on every VF, regardless. Given ammo is essentially free and unlimited, there's no cost benefit to NOT using energy weaponry.

While the original VF-1 lasers might've had difficulty burning through target armor before it moved, that's not the case of the stronger weaponry seen on more modern vehicles.

The Ghost X9 seemed to have no gun. But it had enough other diffrences from the VF series that it's not clear if that was a merit-based decision or a cost-cutting measure.

The gunpod makes sense as a backup weapon, especially given the unknown nature of the enemies the VF is designed to fight*, but not really as a primary weapon.

*Humanity knows the Zentradi, and through the zentradi they know the supervision army. Beyond that, it's a big universe with a lot of room for, say, superconducting fibers woven through armor to dissipate laser heat and a strong magnetic shield to deflect charged particles.

[big F]

With the case of the Vf1 using the fast packs for anything other than space based flight is fairly pointtless. After all it is just a whole lot of extra push with a couple of misslie launchers on the backpack boosters and arms.

In atmospheric flight this arrangement would create more drag than the boosters useage would counteract. The leg vernier thursters are fairly pointless in an atmosphere.

The only situation the fastpack would be of use for a VF1 in an atmospheric battle environment would be for Battloid based combat. The arm based missiles would be useful but are limited in the carried ammo area.the backpack missiles fire in an upward direction so would not be the best choice. The backpack boosters would be of some use for powered jumps and assisted battloid based flight. But onsider the ammount of fuel that would be needed to make them affective over just plain PW Royce thermoneuclear turbines. I think it would rule them out.

The beam cannon could be of affective use against ground troops from say an urban snippers point of view.

In close up confined areas the whole fast pack application I agree would just get in the way. The best way not to get hit by the enemy is to show them the smallest profile posible.

In DYRL Hikaru dumps the armor when going iside the SDF1 after the enemy Power Suits. Also in the VT1 he drops the fastpacks when he finds himself in an atmosphere after the bad hyperspace fold.

The GBP is a whole new ball game designed to go to toe to toe with powered suit armor it is ideally suited to Zero G and space environments. It could also be deployed in a ground based encounter. Much in the same way as the destroids, only with a bit more manoverability, with the ability to pull the release lever and bugout in a hurry unlike the Destroids.

Want an idea of how much drag a Fastpack would give you in the atmosphere. get your self a small box the size of a cornflakes box or shoe box.

Get someone to drive you down the motorway/freeway at the speed limit or faster if you want try holding the box out of the window at arms length see if you can hold it steady.

Edited March 22, 2006 by big F

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

You can't outrun a missile. Realistically you can't outmaneuver a missile either.

I'm talking in terms of what the show can give us. ie where guld is shown dodging the missile or roy shooting them down, or max surviving milia's missile swarms or how dyson survives gulds missiles with tricks.

logic would say a yf21 with slimmer profile (no chunky fast pack) and great speed has much better chance to avoid missile swarm than the slower and bigger (well not 'bigger' but 'chunkier') vf1 w FP. So the idea of having a chunky body (say there is someone persuing you and is on your tail (like the opening scene in macross plus ova) against another equally fast fighter that can match your speed and gets within range, will mean the chunky guy has harder time avoiding stuff. (say in a built up area with lots of junk floating around)

There may be an advantage in having more sharp turn or seeking cover behind some of this stuff that is floating around to make it harder for the guy to lock on and forcing him to use directed attacks against you. Having massive speed might just mean you end up smashing into things in a cluttered environment. (play the game gradius and choose the highest speed setting you can have and see how easy it is to avoid tight enemy fire with it)

You reach an upper limit in how effective speed becomes in a fight depending on the environment you fight in. (seeking cover and then surprise attack might be better idea) Against a Qrau with ace pilot I can imagine the backpack just makes you bigger thats all. (as opposed to later vfs with powerful engine that don't need it and still retain a small profile)

So in summary the chunkiness makes it look mean but I think it is mean only in the sense of adding firepower and more weapons in total, but that in certain situation where you are in a one on one fight against a fast moving opponent, shedding the chunky backpack (whose weapons are limited in usefulness against an ace because of how hard it is to aim and shoot with them) might mean quicker movement and response from you (as in you 'accelerate' fast - like my analogy to a slow racecar with low topspeed but tight handling on a racetrack with lots of tight corners where you will never go at topspeed) and a better chance of you hitting the enemy and *avoiding a shot from an enemy.

*what I mean by avoiding is just generally being a smaller profile, not that you can actually 'dodge' a bullet like in the matrix I mean in the sense that you are small, you might be moving while the enemy tries to shoot (so they need to lead each shot), there may be junk or asteriods in the way etc making it a tough angle for the attacker. Think of a cockroach or a mouse that you can't step on because it is small and can run and hide in tiny corners that you can't reach. Its speed is not due to having big muscles or needing power to move quick, but because the body is light, the energy is used efficiently (good acceleration in a small environment), and it is small - meaning you can't see it half the time so even if you have bigger muscle than it, your movement acceleration is not as efficient as the little cockroach or mouse. If the roach had a tiny rocket on its back it would just make it harder for the roach because it is not needed - provides too much speed since the roach can't make sharp, sudden turns - , adds bulk, and makes it bigger. The later VFs get the 'speed' and slim profile advantage (sleek is good) but not the penalty that the early vf with fast pack have of being easier to shoot up close.

Milia might have had the advantage of speed, (like an in open environment in space) but not of good cover which max could exploit by hiding and using sharper shooting accuracy through directed fire. Where normally milia would rely on micromissiles swarms which might not be so effective in a one on one duel in a built up area. (unlike max using a vf1, she doesn't have the option of 'shedding fat' due to how everything is inbuilt and non-ejectable on a qrau) In a built up environment you can force your opponent to attack from a direction of your choosing which made it easier for him to shoot while the enemy was 'stuck in the tunnel' with limited space to move.

Edited March 23, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

With the case of the Vf1 using the fast packs for anything other than space based flight is fairly pointtless. After all it is just a whole lot of extra push with a couple of misslie launchers on the backpack boosters and arms.

In atmospheric flight this arrangement would create more drag than the boosters useage would counteract. The leg vernier thursters are fairly pointless in an atmosphere.

All true.

The only situation the fastpack would be of use for a VF1 in an atmospheric battle environment would be for Battloid based combat.

Maybe GERWALK too. It's not like it's aerodynamic to start with.

The arm based missiles would be useful but are limited in the carried ammo area.the backpack missiles fire in an upward direction so would not be the best choice.

Partially offset by the high maneuverability of Macross' micromissiles, but point taken.

The backpack boosters would be of some use for powered jumps and assisted battloid based flight. But onsider the ammount of fuel that would be needed to make them affective over just plain PW Royce thermoneuclear turbines. I think it would rule them out.

Remember the FAST packs carry their own fuel, though. And the VF-1 greatly reduces energy directed to the turbines while in battroid mode(the Zero excuse for this is that it enables them to reinforce the battroid with surplus energy), so there's nowher near the thrust available as there is in F and G modes.

In close up confined areas the whole fast pack application I agree would just get in the way. The best way not to get hit by the enemy is to show them the smallest profile posible.

If the FAST packs were selectively ejectable, you could blow away the leg modules and backpack missile pods while keeping the arm launchers and backpack thrusters. As an all-or-nothing solution, it's going to depend on your usage.

In DYRL Hikaru dumps the armor when going iside the SDF1 after the enemy Power Suits. Also in the VT1 he drops the fastpacks when he finds himself in an atmosphere after the bad hyperspace fold.

High-speed atmospheric pursuit isn't an area where FAST packs are even remotely useful. As Hikaru's goal was to catch up to the powered armor units, the FAST packs would be a hindrance.

The VT-1 has no combat capacity whatsoever. May as well just go for the easiest configuration to fly, which happens to be a naked jet.

The GBP is a whole new ball game designed to go to toe to toe with powered suit armor it is ideally suited to Zero G and space environments.

It's explicitly identified as ground armor.

http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nati.../vf1/index.html

"GBP-1S ground-combat protector weapon system"

It's not ideally suited to space combat. It's massive(in the sence that it has much mass, not in the sense that it's large) and features very limited verniers. Both are major no-nos for space combat.

The GBP is worse than a naked VF-1 for space combat.

It IS, however, good for attacking a heavily-armored, low-maneuverability vehicle due to it's large payload. So Hikaru is less than a complete moron for taking it out, as that happened to be what he was up against.

FAST packs would've been better, as they add missiles while enhancing space maneuverability instead of reducing it. But they weren't available at that point in time.

It could also be deployed in a ground based encounter. Much in the same way as the destroids, only with a bit more manoverability, with the ability to pull the release lever and bugout in a hurry unlike the Destroids.

Which was it's design goal. It makes a VF-1 into a Spartan with a jetpack.

Want an idea of how much drag a Fastpack would give you in the atmosphere. get your self a small box the size of a cornflakes box or shoe box.

Get someone to drive you down the motorway/freeway at the speed limit or faster if you want try holding the box out of the window at arms length see if you can hold it  steady.

And no one's debating they suck for fighter combat in an atmosphere.

GERWALK and battroid modes are already as aerodynamically sound as a Corn Flakes box, though. Especially battroid mode, which isn't even intended to fly.

The added boost and weaponry is more relevant than the lost aerodynamics in those modes.

[big F]

Thanks JBO youre always there to bolster and/or point out the holes in my technical posts

As far as the VT1 was concerned I was thinking as it has similar avionic properties to the VF1 I was rather asuming the same sort of thing would apply to it.

The Gerwalk is the classic halfway house mode. Not very fast but still robotic enough to duke it out.

The straddled leg posture you so often see the art work portray is probably the only way you`d get them to stay up in forward motion flight. One leg giving upwards lift while the other pushing it forward backed up with the folded tail sections small jet thrusters.

I had completely missed the GBP`s lack of verniers. The lack of them would seriously hinder fast movement, that really just turns it into a manoverable missleboat.

Still I love em all just the same. Even if you have to sometimes show the door to Newton and his laws

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The Gerwalk is the classic halfway house mode. Not very fast but still robotic enough to duke it out.

I also love the concept that it offers you the ability to land vertically or cushioning a fall at least so you can quickly switch to fighter when you want to properly fly around. A dedicated fighter can't land anywhere it wants like a VF can. Even if it was a half-assed idea at first it just makes so much sense in the tv series imo when you see hikaru actually make good use of gerwalk. (due to all the rescue ops of putting a girl in one hand and a gunpod in the other. )

Sure the zentradi have the REAL gerwalks in the form of regult and glaug, but the vf1 uses the idea to good effect to boost the fighter's usefulness. Without gerwalk it would have been impossible for hikaru to rescue his GF and fly away from danger in time.

I don't think they took advantage of this mode as much in mospeada though so I can see it more as a half assed mode in that series.

Edited March 23, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[big F]

I also love the concept that it offers you the ability to land vertically or cushioning a fall at least so you can quickly switch to fighter when you want. A dedicated fighter can't land anywhere it wants like a VF can. Even if it was a half-assed idea at first it just makes so much sense in the tv series imo when you see hikaru actually make good use of gerwalk. (due to all the rescue ops of putting a girl in one hand and a gunpod in the other. )

383072[/snapback]

That was my thinking too.

[JB0]

Thanks JBO youre always there to bolster and/or point out the holes in my technical posts

No problem.

As far as the VT1 was concerned I was thinking as it has similar avionic properties to the VF1 I was rather asuming the same sort of thing would apply to it.

They would.

Except that a VT-1 has no place in combat.

If it ever gets into a fight, it has strategy A. get the hell out of there, and strategy B. ramming speed.

Strategy A is best met by dropping to F mode and opening the throttle. In an atmosphere, as you noted, FAST packs on F mode slow you down massively. They also muck with the control.

In a combat situation, if you're in F mode primarily and wind up in an atmosphere, it's a good idea to blow FAST packs off too.

The Gerwalk is the classic halfway house mode. Not very fast but still robotic enough to duke it out.

The straddled leg posture you so often see the art work portray is probably the only way you`d get them to stay up in forward motion flight. One leg giving upwards lift while the other pushing it forward backed up with the folded tail sections small jet thrusters.

And if you have FAST packs, both legs can be used for hovering while the FAST packs augment the "backpack" thruster.

It's sort of a jack of all trades design, officially. Faster than battroid, slower than fighter. Bit more maneuverable than fighter, bit less so than battroid.

But I've always considered GERWALK a fundamentally broken design, so... *shrugs*

I'm thinking about it, and I think the only way it could maneuver if it were a real vehicles is with verniers.

The backpack is forward thrust only. The wings are going to be worthless for steering, if for no other reason than the arms are interfering with their airflow. Nose thrusters would rotate you fast, though.

...

Hmm... verniers might make for some interesting fighter mode maneuvers, too. Thrust-vectoring, eat your heart out.

(They still muck with aerodynamics, though. Best to hide them behind trap doors when in atmosphere, I think.)

I had completely missed the GBP`s lack of verniers. The lack of them would seriously hinder fast movement, that really just turns it into a manoverable missleboat.

Yah.

Though now that I think about it, the feet could function as movable verniers, which offsets things. It's an awkward workaround, though. Mainly useful for rolling forward and back.

Still I love em all just the same. Even if you have to sometimes show the door to Newton and his laws

Seconded.

GERWALK may be fundamentally broken, but I'd hate to see it vanish from Macross.

Edited March 23, 2006 by JB0