Marvel: Civil War

[terry the lone wolf]

Marvel has released a trailer for the 7-part event. It looks pretty damned good!

civil war

[chrono]

Sorry, but to me it looks ass.

Totally tired of Marvel's multiple cross-over junk.

Edited March 9, 2006 by chrono

[stram8777]

I am excited about this. Not as excited as I am about Identity Crisis. That is just good reading. But this seems to be picking up speed and interest. Now I can't say anything about what is happening in any of the X books, but I read the Spidey stuff religiously, and the Spider-Man issue where Tony Stark gives peter Parker his new suit had a lot of neat fore shadowing. Also the recent story arc in FF where Thing had to hunt down and stop Hulk was amazing. This directly ties into the planet Hulk story line, which is awesome, and is interesting since Hulk will be a part of this Civil War stuff when he gets back. Gonna be good stuff to see the sides be drawn and where every one falls.

I just have to say this, there is a HUGE possibility that this will turn into crap, but I hope it doesn't. I do have to say that this crossover stuff generally adds interest to comics, if for no other reason it stops being very formulaic. Hero A fights Villain B for 1 - 3 issues then wins maybe with the help of guest hero B (Wolverine). This actually has the possibility of being different in a good way.

[Duke Togo]

Whatever side the Punisher is on.

Honestly, I haven't been a collector in over a decade. I used to work in a comic book store. I got out when the comic market crashed in the early 90's. Now I can't get rid of these boxes I have sitting in my closet.

[bsu legato]

Whatever side the Punisher is on.

Honestly, I haven't been a collector in over a decade. I used to work in a comic book store. I got out when the comic market crashed in the early 90's. Now I can't get rid of these boxes I have sitting in my closet.

378720[/snapback]

X2

(except the "working in a comic store" part)

[promethuem5]

urk.... not ANOTHER stupid crossover I wont buy... all I want is to get a good writer and pencil/inks art team back on Iron Man.... but I GUESS if IM plays a large enough part in this I might check it out....

[ComicKaze]

I'm just sick of Superheroes.

When you have hundreds of spandex clad Superheroes intermingling into what's supposed to be a realistic depiction of the world and modern events it doesn't work anymore.

One or two superheroes is a wonderful thing as powerful icons and imagery or narrative. As icons of exceptionalism in a mundane and dangerous world they are refreshing.

But when you look at the world through a modern lens and see events like war, 9/11, etc. You see how truely helpless and unrealistic Superheroes are when they have these comic events with crossovers of dozens and dozens of them.

The confluence of so much ridiculousnous and bright colors makes for an unbelievably crappy thing.

I'm a huge comic book fan for most of my life but it's all wearing thin on me. I'm reading manga all the time instead because I'm enamored with their detailed depictions of the real world. . . even if the story is trite like a highschool love story or something. The worlds just feel more real and visceral.

[Effect]

I've recently been reading New Avengers and Amazing Spider-man along with Astonishing X-men and I have to say I'm really looking forward to Civil War. True there is a good chance this could go to crap but on the other hand I like that Marvel does these things since it does change things and makes the universe interesting. No matter how the actual series turns out the fallout of this series should keep things interesting since a good numberof series and a lot of characters will be tied into it. With Spiderman caught on either side of Iron Man and Captain America. What's interesting is that the Young Avengers seem like they might get a focus in #2 of the Civil War series. THe different covers that have come out for that issue I think seem to have them on the cover

[Cyclone]

It's the bad old days of Maximum Carnage all over again.

Except for the fact nowdays I don't care and won't follow it, and will probably skip the cross-over issues of the titles I do follow because of it.

[Sundown]

But when you look at the world through a modern lens and see events like war, 9/11, etc. You see how truely helpless and unrealistic Superheroes are when they have these comic events with crossovers of dozens and dozens of them.

Which I believe happens to get addressed in DC's 9/11 tribute, and in Alex Ross's Peace on Earth and Kingdom Come. One of Ross's (and Millers') recurring themes is that heroes aren't meant to solve man's problems, and can't even if they tried. They're meant to serve as examples and inspire people to do their share. Of course not every writer gets this and it turns into a pandering display of colors, powers, and gratuitous anatomy.

The confluence of so much ridiculousnous and bright colors makes for an unbelievably crappy thing.

It really depends on the writer and artist. Not everyone handles the meshing of real world with spandex well. There's a fine balance realism and fanciful that has to be struck for a comic to work, and comic heroes of course fail when viewed from an unflinching and critical eye for realism.

But that's true for more than just comics. That's true for fantasy, for most sci-fi, and especially true for Japanese animations featuring giant transformable robots who battle giant human aliens and narrowly win only by the power of song and music.

Edited March 10, 2006 by Sundown

[Effect]

I'm still waiting for the day when they'll just stop with the issue a month nonsense and just release TPBs. Not even full arcs but parts of a story as TPBs. I think the waiting is kind of a turn off, having to get an issue each month to read for only a few minutes.

Better yet, find a way to do it digital to less the priacy instead of people having to find a comic shop (which seem to be going down in number from what I've heard).

[Sundown]

Better yet, find a way to do it digital to less the priacy instead of people having to find a comic shop

Wouldn't this actually increase the piracy? You know, like everything else digital that's ever been released?

[eugimon]

looks good, marvel has been printing some real fine books lately, from astonishing x men to my Ultimates which has to be my all time favorite book. Civil War seems like it should be a good read.

[Effect]

Better yet, find a way to do it digital to less the priacy instead of people having to find a comic shop

Wouldn't this actually increase the piracy? You know, like everything else digital that's ever been released?

378829[/snapback]

I mean try to do it in a way to lessen it. Should have worded that better. Though you right it might not work.

[JB0]

Better yet, find a way to do it digital to less the priacy instead of people having to find a comic shop

Wouldn't this actually increase the piracy? You know, like everything else digital that's ever been released?

378829[/snapback]

A. Everything else digital hasn't increased piracy. That's a patently absurd statement, and you'd do well to stop listening to the RIAA so much.

B. They can at least implement copy protection on digital releases. Might not mean a lot, but it certainly can't HURT.

[fansubs2000]

So what, will it be Cap vs Iron Man!?!?

Hard to tell from the trailer.

I think it looks like crap and I won't be buying it.

I will say this though, I like it that they are making trailers to promote new comic stories.

Pretty cool!

[Sundown]

A. Everything else digital hasn't increased piracy. That's a patently absurd statement, and you'd do well to stop listening to the RIAA so much.

B. They can at least implement copy protection on digital releases. Might not mean a lot, but it certainly can't HURT.

378836[/snapback]

Ha. If anyone, the RIAA are the last folks I listen to. I have a blog entry to prove it.

Maybe not, but going digital does has made piracy somewhat more covenient. And I'd think it'd definitely increase piracy as far as comics are concerned. Right now, if I want to read the latest issue of whatever, I'd have to go down to the store and grab it. If I could bittorrent it, along with whatever backissue interests me, I know that would be a pretty huge temptation.

Edited March 10, 2006 by Sundown

[mikeszekely]

A. Everything else digital hasn't increased piracy. That's a patently absurd statement, and you'd do well to stop listening to the RIAA so much.

B. They can at least implement copy protection on digital releases. Might not mean a lot, but it certainly can't HURT.

378836[/snapback]

Ha. If anyone, the RIAA are the last folks I listen to. I have a blog entry to prove it.

Maybe not, but going digital does has made piracy somewhat more covenient. And I'd think it'd definitely increase piracy as far as comics are concerned. Right now, if I want to read the latest issue of whatever, I'd have to go down to the store and grab it. If I could bittorrent it, along with whatever backissue interests me, I know that would be a pretty huge temptation.

378858[/snapback]

Comic book sales, like movie sales and music sales, are less likely to be suffering because of piracy and more likely to be suffering because the comic industry, like Hollywood and the recording industry, is shoveling out mass quantities of crap.

[Pat Payne]

Oh dear. Is it the comic world's version of "sweeps" already? You see, this is what's turned me off of comics recently. Everything has to be some "event." Secret Wars, Inferno, Acts of Vengeance, Secret Wars II, all of those were good. But recently they've been going back to that same well almost constantly. They're still doing "House of M" if I'm not mistaken. and concurrently with that they had the breakupa nd re-formation of the Avengers. Thanks, but I'm sticking with my well-worn Chris Claremont X-Men from the '80s. Let me know when Stan Lee and the ghost of Jack Kirby come back to kick some major a$$.

[Pat Payne]

They're meant to serve as examples and inspire people to do their share.  Of course not every writer gets this and it turns into a pandering display of colors, powers, and gratuitous anatomy.

Sometimes, yes. And of course, there were times where the artists/writers had to play down the heroes a bit (for instance during WW2, why was Superman going after Nazi spies when he could have gone straight to Berlin, grabbed Schickelgruber by the scruff of the neck and hauled him off to Fort Knox?). But in the main, the superheroes are there to fight the menaces that can't be taken care of by normal humans. The X-Men are there to foil Magneto, or the FF to keep Galactus from puttin' on the enormous lobster bib and chowing down on Mama Earth.

In the real world, they have also always appealed to the powerless, the underdogs as a sort of wish fulfillment by proxy. Why do you think so many GIs read comics during the war? Because as they were locked in a battle with the Nazis and the Japanese, and even though they couldn't knock out a Tiger tank with one finger or give Hirohito a wedgie, they knew that at least for five minutes they could watch Superman or Captain America do it.

[bsu legato]

Instead of debating the relevence of "Super Heroes" in the modern world, you could just accept them for what they are: Entertainment, mainly for kids.

[Sundown]

Instead of debating the relevence of "Super Heroes" in the modern world, you could just accept them for what they are: Entertainment, mainly for kids.

379020[/snapback]

Sigh.

We're discussing the relevence of Super Hero stories in a modern world and whether that sort of entertainment still "works". Much of what's written today isn't for children-- it's written for and panders specifically to adolesents. And then there are the few stories that go a bit further because the authors wrote them as adults and wrote into them themes and complexities they care about as adults. Yes, they're silly. Yes, they're fanciful. But in the best of comics, the authors still say poignant, relevant things and say them very powerfully-- albiet using the colorful characters we fell in love with as youths.

Edited March 10, 2006 by Sundown

[Effect]

Actually I think House of M is over, they are more dealing with the fallout of it then anything else now. That seems more limited to X-men titles though, especailly the New X-men, Son of M, and Astonishing X-men titles. While titles like FF4, Spidy, New Avengers, and a few others are leading into the Civil War event since they are suppose to be directly related to it. Those that aren't might feel the effects after it's over I think. At least judging by the House of M fallout that might be the case.

[uminoken]

And of course, there were times where the artists/writers had to play down the heroes a bit (for instance during WW2, why was Superman going after Nazi spies when he could have gone straight to Berlin, grabbed Schickelgruber by the scruff of the neck and hauled him off to Fort Knox?). But in the main, the superheroes are there to fight the menaces that can't be taken care of by normal humans. The X-Men are there to foil Magneto, or the FF to keep Galactus from puttin' on the enormous lobster bib and chowing down on Mama Earth.

In the real world, they have also always appealed to the powerless, the underdogs as a sort of wish fulfillment by proxy. Why do you think so many GIs read comics during the war? Because as they were locked in a battle with the Nazis and the Japanese, and even though they couldn't knock out a Tiger tank with one finger or give Hirohito a wedgie, they knew that at least for five minutes they could watch Superman or Captain America do it.

379002[/snapback]

Funny you should say that, the Superman titles just did a story in #226 like a "this is your life" with the Earth-2 Superman about how he and the other JSA went to war for the Allies, and one of the other Super titles devled into how he inspires as an example.

Frankly, I think DC's had much better luck with their title-crossing epics. You actually feel like something's changed, whereas in the Marvel-verse continuity's SO screwed up it would take several Crises to sort it out!

[Isamu Atreides 86]

Well, house of M, which was supposed to change everything, has had very little effect, although Deadly Genesis is excellent. The X-books and most of the other non-ultimate titles are not being handled very well. Bendis is doing good stuff with the New Avengers and Heidberg is also great on Young avengers, the X-titles (with the exception of Astonishing, which has almost no mention of the House of M) and the Spider-Man titles are really spinning their wheels.

DC has really, in my opinion at least, hit one out of the park with its infinite Crisis events. If Marvel can match the impact and intensity of the IC, then the Civil War will be a decent event. but if you take Marvel's last big event, House of M, and compare it to IC, IC is clearly superior. HoM dragged on, with only relevant events happening in the last few issues. With IC, it seems every issue has a "Holy Crap!" moment in them. Sure, characters may not be developing, but there have been a lot of great character moments in the Countdown mini's and the IC issues. Plus, the events carry over into the ongoings and are expanded to include more of these moments (See here the last few Teen Titans issues). I don't think that Hom had any of that except for Spider man in the last few issues.

While Superhero books may tend towards escapism aimed at a younger crowd, there are still some Superhero books with mature things to say. For this, see things like Alan Moore's Top Ten and Warren Ellis and Mark Millar's runs on the Authority, as well as Millar on the Ultimates. Other titles like Robert Kirkman's Invincible seem to really transcend the Superhero Genre. While most of the books DC and Marvel push, there are still a lot of good quality books out there, although to be honest, Vertigo has consistently put out the best books in a long time, such as Fables, DMZ, Loveless, WE3, The Losers and Y the Last Man.

To reiterate, I am looking forward to Civil War, as Millar seems to be able to pull some pretty awesome stuff out once in a while (Ultimates, MK Spider-man and the Authority) and has a good grasp of the "widescreen" action in comics that make them awesome. I just hope its a LOT better than House of M.

[wolfx]

So what are the sides? Superheroes vs mutants?

[Isamu Atreides 86]

So what are the sides? Superheroes vs mutants?

379531[/snapback]

No. Apparently, after the House of M stuff, the U.S. government wants to start a superhero registration program, very much like in Watchmen. it looks like there will be one side for the act and another against it. There will probably be more to it, though. according to Joe Q., the Marvel U is gonna split, even down to the FF, on how people feel about the act, and some teams will be shaken up. we'll see how much Millar can pull off.

[Sundown]

I really wonder sometimes what the point is to "shaking up the universe", when it usually means a new arraingment that works less well than the older did, because characters were written with the original order of things in mind. Especially when they'll just undo all their changes a few years down the line. Other than as a gimmick to sell books, I mean.

[Radd]

You just answered your own question.