Ruins of the SDF-1 in The Robotech Masters

[1st Border Red Devil]

I figured I would repost Matt's theory here. Its been discussed at Robotech.com and at the RDF HQ Message Board. For those of you who missed it....

These mounds to not appear to be big enough to contain even the entire remains of the SDF-1, let alone the carcass of Khyron's ship and remnants of New Macross City. Hear me out on this one:

First off, regardless of Macek’s intent, the mounds are only ever regarded as the remains of the SDF-1. Neither SDF-2, New Macross City or Khyron’s vessel are ever even hinted at in the animation. So let us focus on what parts of the SDF-1 we may be looking at in the mounds.

The chamber containing the Protoculture factory appears to be very sacred in nature. It had carved stones and a narrow but defined (and stone) passageway leading to this room. This appears to be a carefully constructed, elaborate shrine to the Protoculture. I believe that this chamber was aboard the SDF-1 the entire time, simply not uncovered by inhabitants of the ship during its two decades in human hands. If this chamber is indeed inside a once functional massive reflex furnace, the humans may not have dissected the engine—there may well have been non-functional furnaces they could glean this information from without resorting to reverse-engineering a functional unit.

Why three mounds? Perhaps there were three such massive furnaces (of such scale that they were not shown in the animation) were on the SDF-1. One in each massive chest/thruster area and one in the central torso, just aft of the fold drive to provide that drive with power (the fold drive was located in the forward part of the central hull in ship mode or in the pelvis of the ship in battloid mode). Or perhaps one each Leg (in the foot region) instead of the chest sections. In any case, one of the three would have had a section with its structure used for a different purpose.

Why didn’t the humans notice this furnace was not producing as much power? Hmmm. Let us try this analogy: a V8 engine with only 6 cylinders and the rest of that interior spaced being used to house something secret. But it would be obvious. The power output of that unit would need to be nearly the same as the other furnaces and all the necessary wires and such would need to lead somewhere (and do something!). Perhaps Zor or his disciples did the equivalent of boring out and increasing the stroke of the remaining cylinders to make up the difference in power. The furnace may not have had the life-expectancy of the other units, but it may have been able to produce nearly as much power.

Why round? Why are they mounds and not cubes? Most Robotech drives we see (whether they are the anti-grav drives or the smaller reflex units seen in the animation) are cylindrical in form. I see no reason why these massive furnaces would not be cylindrical as well. It is the cylindrical form of these devices that give the mounds their distinctive shape. Dirt, rock and non-salvagable parts of the ship were loaded up around the drives. Nature quickly covered the tops of these mesa-like mounds with life (or the vegetation was planted there on purpose to slow erosion?).

Now why bury the primary Reflex drives of the SDF-1? Perhaps only the furnaces were buried as they were found to be radioactive after Khyron’s attack. Hmmm.

Perhaps the furnaces simply were no longer functioned and there was no need to salvage them—there are Zentraedi ships covering the landscape during the post-Dolza Reconstruction (including one in Monument City if I am not mistaken) that are curiously missing in the Robotech Masters portion of the show. Maybe those ships and their corresponding drives were used in the creation of the Pioneer mission/Expeditionary Force.

Perhaps, if we are to believe Yune and the current team, the factory was indeed found inside one of these now useless drives and was left on Earth because no one would have reason to look inside the old, broken down remains of the SDF-1—including the commanders of Earth’s remaining Robotech defense force, the Armies of the Southern Cross, whom the leaders of the Expeditionary/Pioneer Mission did not fully trust.

Whatever these mounds are, the Robotech Masters were able to open one up to extract the factory. This does not happen with some random heap of debris—I don’t care how powerful the Masters are!

The name. SX Point 83. Perhaps SX.83 could be the translated designation of that particular drive unit—the Masters certainly seemed to know what Emerson was speaking about. That simply could have been the model number of that unit or that style of furnace. Whatever SX.83, it does not appear to be some randomly assigned human designation. Perhaps the Masters heard that designation through Zor Prime when he was a simulagent.

I need to find out the exact size of those mounds and compare them to the SDF-1... If the mounds are too large to fit within the SDF-1, perhaps only the core of the mounds was made from a drive. But I think this idea of mine has merit.

I have been thinking about the inorganic sentry/Invid trap and am choosing not to believe they’re speaking about their shadows on the viewscreen. Perhaps they are receiving energy readings from the factory that are peculiar—it had not occurred to them at that point that the factory itself could have been corrupted by the sprouting flower of life. Perhaps this instability within the factory showed up on their scanners and they did not know how to interpret the information. Perhaps at a previous enounter with the Disciples of Zor or the Invid the Masters had walked straight into a trap and were beign cautious not to do it again. Perhaps the mounds are actually somewhat radioactive and they took these radioactive reading to mean there was a presence of some sort within the mounds.

In any case, this is never mentioned again and our heroes never run across anything resembling an inorganic sentry or Invid trap, so I believe the Masters are mistaken in this assumption.

Whew! Other thoughts on all this?

Using that image, the mounds are approx. 80 meters wide and between 30 and 40 meters tall (depending on image used). Like I suspected, these mounds are not very big. Many seem to underestimate how HUGE the SDF-1 really is/was/could be.

As you can see, there are limited places for the drives to live in a bird's eye view, but the furnaces are not that tall, so they have much vertical room to live (it's also possible that half or more of each furnace is beneath the ground and we are only seeing the tops). As noted in the image, the three mounds are in more or less the same places as chest thrusters/central torso on the ship.

I for one think this is a great bit of insight by Matt. For one thing, it does bear out what I, and others, have been saying for the longest time....that the SDF-2 is NOWHERE present in the ruins....nor is Khyron's cruiser.

[Mechamaniac]

I cannot believe that anyone would take the time to even come up with that post.

Do they not know?, or do they choose not to believe that RT was manufactured from three different series, that had absolutely nothing to do with each other?.

The simple fact of the matter is that they dont LOOK like the ruins of the SDF 1, because they AREN'T the ruins of the SDF1.

That's like trying to explain why the White House is white, and the Kremlin has those nifty spires, they have NOTHING in common.

Why don't you ask that guy what the combination to Captain Kirk's personal safe is?, he sounds like the type that would know.

[yellowlightman]

I cannot believe that anyone would take the time to even come up with that post.

Do they not know?, or do they choose not to believe that RT was manufactured from three different series, that had absolutely nothing to do with each other?.

The simple fact of the matter is that they dont LOOK like the ruins of the SDF 1, because they AREN'T the ruins of the SDF1.

That's like trying to explain why the White House is white, and the Kremlin has those nifty spires, they have NOTHING in common.

Why don't you ask that guy what the combination to Captain Kirk's personal safe is?, he sounds like the type that would know.

Get over it. If you don't like Robotech, don't click on the thread.

[Mechamaniac]

Get over it. If you don't like Robotech, don't click on the thread.

I never said that I didn't like Robotech, I own the whole Macross Saga of Robotech, and was watching Robotech when you were little more than a faint gleam in your Daddy's eye.

I was merely trying to point out that a page long expository on what the three mounds could be is like trying to explain the existence of the Crumple Horned Snorcack.

The creators of Robotech have acknowledged that it was created from three different, and wholly un-related series.

So, the explanation of the three mounds could just as easily have been explained off by the creators of Robotech as sand pail castles left by Zentraedi children, it doesn't matter.

It's called "willing suspension of disbelief", and if you are a sci-fi or anime fan, then this is probably engrained in your psyche at birth, otherwise, you would watch it, and say...That's crap!, there's no way that can happen!.

[Duke Togo]

Mechamaniac is 100% correct. Debate on the mounds is pointless, they have nothing to do with SDF Macross.

[bsu legato]

These mounds to not appear to be big enough to contain even the entire remains of the SDF-1, let alone the carcass of Khyron's ship and remnants of New Macross City.

What about the giant crater that the SDF-1 was sitting in? It was more than big enough to account for the SDF-1 wreckage as well as Kyhron's ship and the SDF-2, which I include becasue that's what the writers originally intended and no amount of fan-fic will change that. 3 ships = 3 mounds.

But otherwise, why not just accept that there's visual inconsistencies between Robo-chapters, like Duke and Mechamaniac suggest? The only way it would be 100% seamless would be to reanimate the entire saga.

[pfunk]

What were those "mounds" in mospeada?

[Duke Togo]

They aren't in MOSPEADA. SURPRISE! I think we are seeing a pattern here.

[bandit29]

So how long before this new RT fan fiction becomes RT canon? Well that's kinda the samething I guess lol

[bsu legato]

So how long before this new RT fan fiction becomes RT canon?

Yeah, but remember that there's different camps when it comes to RT fan fiction, and none of them get along. If you want your fan fic to become gospel, you have to be friends with the right people.

[mikeszekely]

I for one think this is a great bit of insight by Matt. For one thing, it does bear out what I, and others, have been saying for the longest time....that the SDF-2 is NOWHERE present in the ruins....nor is Khyron's cruiser.

Here's a theory you guys can try...

Not only do the mounds NOT contain Khyron's ship, the SDF-2, or the ruins of Macross City, they don't contain the SDF-1, either. Not even part of it. My reasoning here is very simple...

1. The SDF-2 was in construction, but not back to back with the SDF-1... it was actually being built on the moon!

2. The SDF-1 was not destroyed during Khyron's suicide attack. After the attack, the SDF-1 was repaired and refit, the wreckage of Khyron's ship was cleaned up, and Macross City continued to prosper.

3. The setting of "the Robotech Masters" saga is actually not even earth. So even if the SDF-1 had been destroyed, and buried with Khyron's ship and the SDF-2, they would be nowhere near the mounds seen in "the Robotech Masters."

Mechamaniac's right. I have nothing against Robotech, as if it weren't for RT, I might not have discovered Macross. This Matt fellow is trying to explain why two parts of RT don't quite fit as if he genuinely thought that Robotech is an original creation, and had no idea that Macross and Southern Cross are actually two seperate entities. If something from the Macross saga doesn't seen to fit the RT Masters saga, it's because they're actually unrelated. If the explaination given seems weak, it's because it's trying to cover for the fact that Macross and Southern Cross are two totally different shows. It'd be like taking the Fresh Prince of Bel Air and the Drew Carey Show, and combining them into one show, and then telling everyone that Drew Carey and Philip Banks are the same character, but the reason why he was black before and white now is because of a genetic mutation. Of course it's lame, but it you want to believe that it's really one show, you have to buy it as is. If you want the real story, you have to... well, accept reality, watch Macross, and then go to Macross Plus when you want a sequel, not Southern Cross.

[Nightbat]

Gentlemen...

leave the topic as it is, not a M/RT bashfest

it's for those with interest in Robotech

[Mechamaniac]

Gentlemen...

leave the topic as it is, not a M/RT bashfest

it's for those with interest in Robotech

Then perhaps it should have been left over at the Robotech Forums. Anyone here who cares enough about Robotech will have an account over there, and can read it there.

This is clearly a case of Robotech "what if" ing, and should have stayed on their boards if they wanted posts that agreed with the theory, or wanted to further the theory.

Posting it here, invites discussion, and as this is a board devoted to Macross, it will get Macross related comments.

[Myriad]

Other Anime or Science Fiction

Closest thing here to 'Off Topic'

From Megazone to Star Trek

[Myriad]

Interesting theory despite the obvious truth in the matter.

[EXO]

You'd have to be nuts to start a topic like this here, no matter what the rules states. Look at the beating Halle Berry is taking, you're expecting the people to make nice?

As far as I know there's no rules against a snowball in hell, it doesn't mean I'm gonna invite the devil to a snowball fight.

[Millia Jenius]

Wow! It all makes sense now. I always thought those mounds were the dung piles left by a race of space elephants.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Waaaaaaarriors! Come out and plaaaaaaaaay-yaaaaaaaaay!

Seriously though...

You still have to respect the way the fans are at least trying to sew together all the unexplained things that the Robotech writing staff were just to lazy to attempt. You'd think in the current fanboy climate that someone over at HG would at least go back and clean up a lot of the loose ends to give nice "fanboy approved" background to a lot of their stuff.

Like it or hate it at least that guy put forth the effort and you have to respect that, it's not like he's spamming the board with "Robotech Rulz!".

[Khyron]

According to the novels, the city was pretty much radio-active after the fight. So the RDF bulldozed the remains of the city into the lake, filling it in & then covering everything with dirt (to hold in the radioactivity) The mounds were the three ships that were sticking up above the water level. Seemed simple for me to go with the 3 mounds = 3 ships explanation. I know they are not related in the origonal series but I can believe while watching RT.

[bsu legato]

According to the novels, the city was pretty much radio-active after the fight.

I thought "McKinney" was considered a swear word in Robotech forums these days. Otherwise, I agree with Khyron.

[Duke Togo]

Of course, you then get into the argument that the SDF-2 appears nowhere in the animation, which it doesn't.

[Agent ONE]

Waaaaaaarriors! Come out and plaaaaaaaaay-yaaaaaaaaay!

"It was the warriors... I saw them! "

Oh yeah, this theory =

[bigkid24]

Interesting explanation. Do I care, not really but I agree with JsARCLIGHT in that it's cool that they are trying to mend things together. Yes, everyone knows they are totally unrelated in the real world but Robotech fans seem to take whatever was in the animation as being gospel. We all know that the missles on the stabilizers and the "YF-1R" are animation mistakes but these seem to weasel themselves into RT canon.

I think this would be a silly debate if we were talking about Macross and Southern Cross but in the Robotech realm it's pretty interesting.

[pfunk]

I still wanna know WTF Amime those wierd lookin' mounds a from (calvery??, Genisis Climber???) Everyone knows it has nothing to do with ruins or 3 ships that crashed perfectly spaced or buried over cause they were nuclier,,,(anyhow, they buried chernobal with concrete and it still gives off deadly levels of radiation) so any RT excuse is far fetched, I just want to know what the hell the guy was drawing when he drew it, not what other people think he was thinking <_< spaceship ruins, thats a funny one though

[JsARCLIGHT]

The three mounds are from SDC: Southern Cross. They are the ruins of the original Zor culture on the planet Glorie. Check Lebhed's protoculture site for more info.

[pfunk]

The three mounds are from SDC: Southern Cross. They are the ruins of the original Zor culture on the planet Glorie. Check Lebhed's protoculture site for more info.

Yeah, Ive seen the site. its good, I never really cared a lot for SDC mecha, so I never really checked it out. Thats the one they had 2 airbrush out the other moon in the robotech series. I am getting a hover tank though,,,,,just had too, I do like robotech, but mounds and space junk

[Mechamaniac]

I still wanna know WTF Amime those wierd lookin' mounds a from (calvery??, Genisis Climber???) Everyone knows it has nothing to do with ruins or 3 ships that crashed perfectly spaced or buried over cause they were nuclier,,,(anyhow, they buried chernobal with concrete and it still gives off deadly levels of radiation) so any RT excuse is far fetched, I just want to know what the hell the guy was drawing when he drew it, not what other people think he was thinking spaceship ruins, thats a funny one though

Yeah, I wondered about that as well.

If you accept RT Canon, then those mounds are the overgrown hulks of starships, yet they are all uniform in size, and COMPLETELY covered with vegetation and trees.

Again, taking RT as canon, The RT Masters starts 15 years after the end of The Macross Saga, so we're to believe that all that growth happened in 15 years as well. <_>

[Ladic]

maybe when the built the mounds, they planted the trees there?

[CoryHolmes]

A Robotech idea is presented and discussed on MW and it get's bashed outright? Gee, what a surprise.

It's reactions like this that make me loath to reccomend MW to other people and even to drop by.

[Abombz!!]

A Robotech idea is presented and discussed on MW and it get's bashed outright?  Gee, what a surprise.

It's reactions like this that make me loath to reccomend MW to other people and even to drop by.

I wouldn't take it too seriously.... it seems to be bashing month here on MW, did you see the movie thread?

And besides... somethings are just beyond explanation, such as the 3 mounds, why Macross 7 sucks so much, and things like that. Yet ppl still try to explain them, you can't blame some for being tired of hearing it.

Edited October 3, 2003 by Abombz!!

[yellowlightman]

Then perhaps it should have been left over at the Robotech Forums. Anyone here who cares enough about Robotech will have an account over there, and can read it there.

This is clearly a case of Robotech "what if" ing, and should have stayed on their boards if they wanted posts that agreed with the theory, or wanted to further the theory.

Posting it here, invites discussion, and as this is a board devoted to Macross, it will get Macross related comments.

First of all, read what forum you're in. It's the Other Science Fiction & Anime.

Second of all I consider myself a Robotech fan, and I dont have an account at Robotech.com. I don't care much for HG or their toadlings, so when I do wanna post about Robotech I hang out on the "other" Robotech message board.

I don't see people jumping on topics when people post Gundam in a "Macross board." Get over it. Don't like the topic, don't post in here. Grow up. Act like an adult, don't be an ass.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

You know. This reminds me of the time, at RT. they were trying to expalin why Breetai knew that earth had "micronians" befor he got/saw the footage from the scout pods.

Edited October 3, 2003 by SkullLeaderVF-X

[SuperOstrich]

Guys, everything gets bashed on ANY message board. Quit trying to make it seem like MW-exclusive behavior.

[1st Border Red Devil]

According to the novels, the city was pretty much radio-active after the fight.  So the RDF bulldozed the remains of the city into the lake, filling it in & then covering everything with dirt (to hold in the radioactivity)  The mounds were the three ships that were sticking up above the water level.  Seemed simple for me to go with the 3 mounds = 3 ships explanation.

While it is confirmed in the Tv series that the site of New Macross City was irradiated (and sealed off) it is also confirmed that the ruins themselves are that of the SDF-1 alone (Emerson, Green, Rochelle, Dana and others all state that the ruins are that of the SDF-1). Dana says that it was the site of Earth's first battlefortress. Thats pretty specific that the second (SDF-2) was nowhere around there.

While the site is that of New Macross City (at least according to Bowie) it has only been an assumption that those three mounds are EXACTLY where the SDF-1 was located. Whatever may have been salvageable was likely carried away (along with any of the prefab structures) and the 3 reflex furnaces were left where they were....covered in dirt (and possibly some concrete) to prevent any spillage or leakage of irradiated materials.

Edited October 3, 2003 by 1st Border Red Devil

[Druna Skass]

Ok what is a Reflex Furnace anyway? Is it a protoculture powered reactor?