Do You Want For Japan To Start Producing Original

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

But who would buy it if the existing ones are better at the job?

At least with robots there is a purpose. Toys for example, helping the elderly, as cheap drones to spy on the enemy, disarming bombs safely etc

Even powered suits I can see money in it: carrying a heavy load like the power loader in aliens. Maybe in future these will be used for military purpose.

SK should stick to toys. Sometimes the things you see in anime are just not possible like the way some of the fighters move in it - dodging and weaving through swarms of micromissiles with grace and style. Really they look better in a cartoon world because they break all the rules. If the real version can't live up to the legend, why bother?

Edited March 6, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Gaijin]

So I shouldn't post pictures of the "transformable Mini Cooper"?

Well JB0 I'm afraid so, not to upset you or anything but then again it is a free forum so you could do what you want

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Edited March 6, 2006 by Gaijin

[Sdf-1]

Wooohooooo!!!!!!

[JB0]

Not enough respect for the Defender of the Universe in this thread.

[Syngyne]

I also didn't know that the F-16 airframe was unstable for it to use FBW cause I thought G.Dynamics simply developed the F-16 and decided to use the FBW system just as part of the avionics, not to help control the plane.

376969[/snapback]

Read about a fifth of the way down.

The F-16 was designed to be unstable to help its maneuverability. The plane would be unflyable without the computer systems constantly adjusting the control surfaces.

[Neova]

I agree Phyrox, we're talking about Japan making original aircraft, not robot drones.

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/Start off topic political rant

Personally, I would NOT like to see Japan build jack s*** for their military. I'm sure MOST of their Asian neighbors would agree with me and would like Japan to just keep to their Pacifist Oath post WWII and learn to live with everyone else instead of trying to reneg on their domestic policy and pushing for an offensive buildup.

The US has got their back and they don't need anymore military than that for "defense".

/End off topic political rant

I think this topic would have been better phrased if it was "Would you like to see Anime Aircraft become a reality one day?"

BTW: So when are the Tachikoma's going into mass production? Would be a nifty replacement for my lawn mower.

Edited March 6, 2006 by Neova

[Gaijin]

Not enough respect for the Defender of the Universe in this thread.

377045[/snapback]

Snoopy could take out Voltron plus all the other anime fighter planes except for :

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Not enough respect for the Defender of the Universe in this thread.

377045[/snapback]

Voltron vs Gundam Wing in lawn dart Race, who will win?

form Blazing Sword! lol

[Mowe]

Rocket Punch, I really dig for that striking resemblance between the RQ-4A Global Hawk and the Eva Mass Production, and I liked your humour .

What the hell is this post about?  Autonomous giant clones/robots and large RC semi-autonomous aircraft...why are they in this thread?

376914[/snapback]

...because I think the resemblance is funny.

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[Gaijin]

Well back to the topic at hand, Now I know that a vast majority of the planes you see in anime may look as if they can be made into actual planes and some of them may not but when you think about some of these fighters regardless of how they look seemingly impossible to fly, can. You wanna know why?

Because of a thing that all us fighter plane enthusiats in this forum know as the "fly-by-wire" control  system. So there you have it, just about any unusual aircraft design is able to fly thanks to FBW.  Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.

376959[/snapback]

Yes I'm sure no one here ever ever ever heard about that!!!!!

OK, I'm done. Have at it.

Edited March 6, 2006 by Gaijin

[Phalanx]

Well Neova a good reason why the neighboring Asian countries's don't wan't japan producing anime based aircraft because they would probably be jealous of the country's technological prowess and plus, they can't deal with the fact they would be very close to becoming an absolute super power like China. Besides most Asian countries still hate Japan for past WW2 atrocities.

[Mowe]

Phalanx, slow down, at the rate you are going, you are going to upset a few people. I'm not a mod, but I think you should just keep it easy. Cheers

Well Neova a good reason why the neighboring Asian countries's don't wan't japan producing anime based aircraft because they would probably be jealous of the country's technological prowess and plus, they can't deal with the fact they would be very close to becoming an absolute super power like China. Besides most Asian countries still hate Japan for past WW2 atrocities.

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[Phalanx]

Oh thanx Mowe, I forgot that some of the people on this forum might be asian, and I was thinking too selfish. I apologize to all of you asians iwith the utmost sincerity if you were offended by my post.

[Phalanx]

But back to the question, I think Japan should make the fighter planes as long as they feel that it's within their budget to create some of them, since they have short and simple designs like the F-16; it's short size and light body made it cost less to build than advanced aircraft. A completion to my original question. But Sundown when you say that anime artists are artists not engineers to aircraft companies doesn't that mean that they still are eligble to be a aeronautical designers? Because SK knows alot about airplanes intimately since he was a child and knows all technical details about airplanes as well. I think Japanese aerospace companies should hire SK to be an aeronautical designer since he knows all of the technical aspects of aircraft. It's same thing with getting a job as a personal painter where if somebody notices your outstanding painting talent and your artworks as well, that person would want to hire you as their personal painter since you have the skills, talent and understanding of the field to get the job done.

[Neova]

... But Sundown when you say that anime artists are artists not engineers to aircraft companies doesn't that mean that they still are eligble to be a aeronautical designers? Because SK knows alot about airplanes intimately since he was a child and knows all technical details about airplanes as well. I think Japanese aerospace companies should hire SK to be an aeronautical designer since he knows all of the technical aspects of aircraft. ....

377176[/snapback]

And the US Government should hire Todd McFarlane to be an expert in Paranormal and help lead the research to find and open up the secrets to Noah's Ark, the Holy Grail and the keys to Doom's Hellgate on Mars. Obviously one can see that he is the most qualified person as in the creation of his TOYS.

LOL is this guy for real? He's funnier than bankofkev! Okay maybe not... at least intelligence wise he is not.

[Knight26]

See my earlier post.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Ok Phalanx. Why don't we keep it logical. You name ONE anime fighter. Then let the others tell you which feature/s of it won't work and why nothing short of 'overtechnology' would make it work.

[Knight26]

that sounds like the best idea for this thread so far. Infact I was almost contemplating starting another thread to do just that, put up an anime aircraft and have people list the issues it would have with actually flying.

[Valkyrie Nut]

*looks at previous posts*

I don't if anyone has mentioned this but aren't are most aircraft in anime from 2030 outwards? (excluding the VF-0 and VF-1) If that's the case there's no way current technology could make them possible right? I also agree with the rest that anime-style aircraft are unfeasable and a complete waste of money. If any aircraft manufacturer were to attempt it they'd probably end up bankrupt

[Phalanx]

OK guys I agree with your logical thinking but If you read several of my post's from a few pages back I said that some of the fighters can be made but I wasn't expecting them to have the trademark features that make them special like the FRX-00 Mave from yukikaze; I don't expect Japan to actual create an AI system for it because the technology would take 40 years or so to perfect.

[Knight26]

yeah but we are also talkign about the aerodynamics, the FRX-00 for one thing would never fly

[JB0]

OK guys I agree with your logical thinking but If you read several of my post's from a few pages back I said that some of the fighters can be made but I wasn't expecting them to have the trademark features that make them special like the FRX-00 Mave from yukikaze; I don't expect Japan to actual create an AI system for it because the technology would take 40 years or so to perfect.

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No, you said they LOOKED like they could be made. Which isn't the same thing.

And until Japan can make me one of these...

... they need to not waste time on airplanes.

[Valkyrie Nut]

Meh, give me an A.C. anyday

As Knight26 said it's not just the technology inside the aircraft. The Mave would never get off the ground simply due to the laws of physics. Out of of all the Yukikaze designs the only ones that would stand a chance of getting airborne are the Sylph and Super Slyph in my opinion. Of course they'd need a darn good control system to stop them from going out of control after take off e.g. like the system Eurofighter needs

(I should have joined this earlier )

[kalvasflam]

Also yet another good question about the F-15J's. How come the engineers of the F-15J haven't designed some sort of distinct and revolutionary avionic systems or missle types to make it stand a chance against the ultimate American variant; he F-15S/MT Active; an advanced canarded dual-seater version with thrust vectoring nozzles designed in conjunction with NASA. I know that the F-15J's have some original avionic systems (can't remember them) but in a sense, they don't don't appear to have any overall effect on the fighter's capabilities. It makes them appear as just another ordinary F-15 only  just flown by japanese pilots and have distinct paint schemes( they have some nice designns)

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Well, there isn't a good reason why the F-15J couldn't be more capable than the American variant. In fact, there is no reason at all why Japanese heavy industries could manufacture a state of the art fighter that more than rivals the Americans. Take WWII for example, when they started WWII, the IJN had the best carrier borne fighter around. The Zero could fly circles around the Wildcats, and laughed at anything the British had at the time. It did have serious deficiencies still, for example, it was a flying death trap that couldn't take a hit, didn't have much of a punch either. But all things aside, until the Hellcats and the Corsairs came along, the Zeros pretty much dominated the air in the Pacific.

The only reason is that Japan has chosen (very intelligently I might add) not to piss off the rest of Asia again. Why bother building up a gigantic military when you have the world's largest military allied with you and protecting you by having some bases on your soil. Besides, there was this little thing called WWII where Japan ran rampant and made enemies out of just about every Asian country at the time. No Asian country (especially China) would tolerate the Japanese arming themselves again to that extent.

Finally, I'm betting Japanese weapons engineers aren't paid nearly as well as PS3 engineers. So, guess where the best engineers are going to.

[Zentrandude]

Meh, give me an A.C. anyday

As Knight26 said it's not just the technology inside the aircraft. The Mave would never get off the ground simply due to the laws of physics. Out of of all the Yukikaze designs the only ones that would stand a chance of getting airborne are the Sylph and Super Slyph in my opinion. Of course they'd need a darn good control system to stop them from going out of control after take off e.g. like the system Eurofighter needs

(I should have joined this earlier )

377328[/snapback]

Not true, put enough power and it will get off the ground. Staying in one piece well thats another story.

[Sundown]

Oh thanx Mowe, I forgot that some of the people on this forum might be asian, and I was thinking too selfish. I apologize to all of you asians iwith the utmost sincerity if you were offended by my post.

The issue some might have with what you've said isn't because you're being selfish. It's because your statements about Asian countries and their sentiments are wholly inaccurate. They would actually be delighted if Japan would waste extra effort and resources building planes that look like they belong in cartoons rather than concentrate on building aircraft that are cheap, functional, and efficient.

Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be. The Japanese government, military, and their aeronautic engineers would likely be the first to agree.

But Sundown when you say that anime artists are artists not engineers to aircraft companies doesn't that mean that they still are eligble to be a aeronautical designers? Because SK knows alot about airplanes intimately since he was a child and knows all technical details about airplanes as well. I think Japanese aerospace companies should hire SK to be an aeronautical designer since he knows all of the technical aspects of aircraft.

Err. SK does not know "all the technical aspects of aircraft." That would make him an aeronautical engineer, which is what he actually dropped out of doing presumably from a lack of interest. It also suggests that there was still more for Kawamori to learn before he quit. As great an artist as Kawamori is, you're giving him much more credit than he's due, and you're giving engineers much less credit than they deserve.

It's same thing with getting a job as a personal painter where if somebody notices your outstanding painting talent and your artworks as well, that person would want to hire you as their personal painter since you have the skills, talent and understanding of the field to get the job done.

Actually, it's more like hiring Jim Lee, a comic artist, to perform cosmetic surgery on you because you need a nosejob. Jim Lee was a medical school student who dropped out to pursue a career as a comic artist. He's considered amongst the best, and as a result of his schooling, has a great sense of anatomy in addition to knowing what makes people look good. But he simply does not have the skill and technical knowledge needed to perform cosmetic surgery.

And likewise, Kawamori doesn't have the knowhow needed in order to design real, efficient, functional aircraft that maximize performance over aesthetics.

I'm like a shark! I just gotta... keep making analogies!

Edited March 7, 2006 by Sundown

[Valkyrie Nut]

Meh, give me an A.C. anyday

As Knight26 said it's not just the technology inside the aircraft. The Mave would never get off the ground simply due to the laws of physics. Out of of all the Yukikaze designs the only ones that would stand a chance of getting airborne are the Sylph and Super Slyph in my opinion. Of course they'd need a darn good control system to stop them from going out of control after take off e.g. like the system Eurofighter needs

(I should have joined this earlier )

377328[/snapback]

Not true, put enough power and it will get off the ground. Staying in one piece well thats another story.

377349[/snapback]

True, it would probably break apart during take-off

[the white drew carey]

Ok Phalanx. Why don't we keep it logical. You name ONE anime fighter. Then let the others tell you which feature/s of it won't work and why nothing short of 'overtechnology' would make it work.

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Ahem... I refer you to the last part of my reply, which is the 4th reply in the beginning of this thread:

The reasons are myriad and, in reality, the real question which would spark more discussion is: Why doesn't Japan produce their own original aircraft, primarily based off of actual designs seen in anime like macross or yukikaze?

Seriously, this thread is pretty dumb. Sorry, Phlalanx, but it's true.

The reason Japan does not make original military aircraft based on anime designs is because (besides getting past the lame idea factor) the costs of adapting a design done solely for visually pleasure, developing a working model, and then producing and maintaining a fleet, are much too astronomical to justify creating a plane in the first place in order to satisfy a whim based on visual aesthetics.

Edited March 7, 2006 by the white drew carey

[azrael]

There is the saying: Art imitates life.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work the other way around.

[Phalanx]

I know white drew carey and I agree with you. It is a waste of time but people keep giving me back feedback that could make me go on forever in this thread til i'm in my 40's. But I think that a small number of you on this thread are actually trying to say to me "Shut up Phalanx, and end this stupid thread" Am I right?

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Another thing, I think Knight26 already mentioned it earlier.

With sophisticated FBW and lotsa thrust its possible to make virtually any of the anime designs fly. BUT... its just darn inefficient because they cause more drag then necessary or have other features which don't make an efficient case. Basically, all the _cool_ looking features which make an anime plane stand out just causes DRAG which limits range, top speed, acceleration, virility and world peace.

e.g. Take the VF-1. With no elevators, the damn thing is going to have a really low pitch rate. It compensates by having 2D thrust nozzles but in the real world, the weight and complexity of having the thrust nozzles installed would be better spent on a set of elevators. In addition, the shape of the rectangular thrust nozzles don't make sense. Turbines are round and the rectangular nozzles don't fit the airflow coming out of the engines as well as round ones.

Take the VF-0. Same problem of having not v stabs. And the h stabs don't look nearly big enough to give it any stability.

The Superslyph. Double bubble cockpit doesn't help drag. And that big arse under fuselage fin requires a long reinforced landing gear which just plain wastes payload ability.

The FRX mauve/mave?.. All the squarish protruding bits and lumps and that gaping space beneath and behind the cockpit pod would cause stupid amounts of drag. With current materials technology, the damn thing probably wouldnt go past Mach 1 and if you installed hot-rod engines to push it, it would probably break up or the red hot glowing bits would burn the pilots butt. Plus the crazy dihedral looks too extreme and would cause lousy roll rates.

The VF-22S? That stupid bubble doesnt make sense. If you need to raise the pilots view, just move the whole cockpit up rather then part of the cockpit jutting out. It doesnt even look nice! That one feature pisses me off severely because the YF-21/VF-22 is otherwise my favourite anime fighter. Not that it otherwise works in real life due to the squarish protrusions and gaps.

[JB0]

I know white drew carey and I agree with you. It is a waste of time but people keep giving me back feedback that could make me go on forever in this thread til i'm in my 40's. But I think that a small number of you on this thread are actually trying to say to me "Shut up Phalanx, and end this stupid thread" Am I right?

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You are wrong. It's the vast majority of people on this thread saying that. The few that aren't are here out of morbid curiosity.

Hey, if Japan built this, everyone would be happy! There's a jet in it!

[Phalanx]

So JB0 you're saying that it's the other way around and just wanted know what I was talking about on this thread ? And I also take it that you are part of the majority? (No offense) I mean already know that people want me to end this thread ASAP because it's pretty much pointless and "stupid" and also childish but this topic of mine was started out of sheer honesty and I'm sure that some of you guys in this forum were honest and dead serious about some of the topic questions you started in the MW forums but I want to congratulate all of you for having the courage to start them like I did and were brave enough to take the insults putdowns and flames of other users.

[ghostryder]

You are wrong. It's the vast majority of people on this thread saying that. The few that aren't are here out of morbid curiosity.

Why this thread hasn't been locked is beyond me. I guess the mods are also keeping it alive out of "morbid curiosity"?

[kalvasflam]

So JB0 you're saying that it's the other way around and just wanted know what I was talking about on this thread ? And I also take it that you are part of the majority? (No offense) I mean already know that people want me to end this thread ASAP because it's pretty much pointless and "stupid" and also childish but this topic of mine was started out of sheer honesty and I'm sure that some of you guys in this forum were honest and dead serious about some of the topic questions you started in the MW forums but I want to congratulate all of you for having the courage to start them like I did and were brave enough to take the insults putdowns and flames of other users.

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No offense, but somewhere I read that you were 18. I guess it's a part of the maturing process that you'd be able to take criticisms on rather stupid ideas and then recognize that in fact those are stupid ideas. Or better yet, see that some people are trying to give you some reasonable opinions on why the idea doesn't work at all... just off the top of my head, there were a few like on this thread:

- not aerodynamically feasible

- not in the interest of Japan as a country

- not financially judicious

Again, all these are reasons that the average 18 year old don't tend to grasp. Heck, there are 40 year olds out there who still think all their real life problems will magically vanish if they just wished hard enough. It's not wrong... per se... it's just that their beliefs tend not to coincide with reality.

On the other hand, may be we're all wrong, and may be Japan should be building a fighter based on anime design. Hey, you're young, feel free to prove everyone who disagreed with you wrong. Show that it makes sense economically, politically, militarily, and of course in engineering terms too.

You know, it's just like that Apple commercial a few years ago: "THINK DIFFERENT" and may be you'll succeed like Steve Jobs.

Edited March 7, 2006 by kalvasflam