Anybody Thinks That Sk Needs To Redesign The Vf-1?

[JB0]

JB0, For the last dang time, I'll draw my redesign of the VF-1 showig more angles so you can see more details. I admit, the Wing Kai was a poor example but for a final example that I hope makes my point clear and ends this topic of mine just take the designs of all of the U.C timeline gundams like the GP-01 or ZZ Gundam. They're close redesigns of the original RX-78 in terms of their paint scheme where their chest areas are blue and their feet are red just like the original which shows 90% resemblance to each other. Just as you say that the VF-11 is what I want as the redesigned VF-1, that would be the same as me wanting the Wing Gundam as the redesign of the RX-78. They have no close resemblance to each other in terms of details like paint schemes of the original.

They're close enough that I've had many people tell me tha tthey can't tell one Gundam from another.

I feel that paint schemes are important to me because it helps somebody recgonize the resemblance  to the original firsthand by looking at it.

The VF-1 comes in roughly a dozen diffrent paint schemes.

And also, if you say that the VF-0 is a redesign of the VF-1, can you please explain to me why exactly didn't SK openly admit  that it actually was because that caused confusion among me and some others? 

As near as I can tell, he just dislikes the idea of retroactively overhauling his creations, so he gave it a new name and tweaked the chronology a bit to get the VF-1 out of deployment for that time period(the original timeline had the VF-1 in mass-production and deployment by the time of MacZero).

It's pretty freaking obvious to anyone that LOOKS at the dang thing. The only possible cause of confusion is chronic stupidity.

Finally, what I've been saying earlier was leave the original VF-1 design OFFICIAL while leaving a close resemblance redesign of it for (model kit work) either SEMI-OFFICIAL or UNOFFICIAL. I'm not saying that this VF-1 redesign should replace the original one, OK? I hope that this point helps clear up any confusion I caused and I'm very close to ending this topic for good

VEE. EFF. ZERO.

The whole "unofficial redesign" thing Bandai keeps pulling is just retarded. The only reason they do it is so they have more model kits to push. It's also why recent Gundam shows have had more than one "Gundam."

[Phalanx]

"The only possible cause of confusion is chronic stupidity."

Alright JB0, so are you calling me stupid now? I mean, Im not trying to start crap with anybody on this board but I will start flamin anybody that disrespects me or cyber bullies me. JB0 thats' f***ed up disrespectin me by callin me stupid. I never insulted your intelligence in any way, shape or form. Are you really really upset at me for not getting your points or do you think I'm doing this to purposely piss you off because that's not what I'm trying to do. There are some things you say that I understand and some I don't but can you at least for christ sakes, hold your composure? It's not that much of a serious issue now is it? It's like everybody's finally waited till now to release their anger out on me on my topic thread and bash away with me because I don't think the same way you guys do. It's like you guys can't stand anybody who has a different opinion than yours but did I take my frustration out on any of you guys directly for refusing to agree with me? No I didn't. I took it like a man and chose not insult any of you on the board as I respect all of you as individuals. Man, I'm out.

[azrael]

JB0, that's enough. And Phalanx, calm down.

Would the 2 of you like to take this to PM or what?

[Black Valkyrie]

Why redesign it ?! to give it a macek or yune design IS THAT IT ! (only an rt geek would say this). Besides the VF-1 is time less design but all it depends on the color style. As for the VF-0 it was ment to be low tech and a realistic look ... prequel.

[Sumdumgai]

You want modernization?

VF-1 not-so-low-visibility version 2 lol

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

It's not that much of a serious issue now is it? It's like everybody's finally waited till now to release their anger out on me on my topic thread and bash away with me because I don't think the same way you guys do. It's like you guys can't stand anybody who has a different opinion than yours but did I take my frustration out on any of you guys directly for refusing to agree with me? No I didn't. I took it like a man and chose not insult any of you on the board as I respect all of you as individuals. Man, I'm out.

For what it is worth: I don't think the idea of a redesign is stupid but more so the idea that one SHOULD happen for no reason is stupid. No I don't think you are stupid (very persistant though) but you got to understand the VF1 was looking modern during the time in the story and when the series was created. Newer valks made after it just look even MORE modern with the advances made and more time and funding for R&D. Making the VF as modern as the newer valks will spoil the chronology and people will go: "hey that thing doesn't look in keeping with the times, how can the humans know about all this new tech if it didn't exist back then?!" (this is actually what happened with VF0 where some people think it looks too out of place) There are good reasons for doing it and bad reasons for doing it.

But above all: I think having a show featuring the mecha actually helps to promote the toy/model in a sense because people tend to buy what they know. That's a pretty logical reason for not upgrading it. If people see something they are not familiar with, will they hunt for the toy? Maybe, but the show's exposure helps. If everyone knows macross and they see 'macross toys/models', fully familiar with the valkryie and the concept of the transformation, that adds alot.

This is why I am so cynical: if you think about it movies like star wars now are an ad for cool toys. I probably would not have bought any transformers as a kid or adult if I didn't know the characters from the cartoon. So having a show or a reason to do a redesign would be my requirment for it to happen if I were SK. (and I doubt there is going to be a remake of the original tv series or a retelling of the story with new designs the same way seed was trying to be the original MSG for new generation of fans)

What I proposed a while ago in a thread was that it would be cool if they continue an alternate universe series with valks the way Gundam Wing was an AU. Unique timeline, maybe a different set of aliens and enemies, original mecha like what you see in M II. (after all macross plus wasn't even supposed to be part of macross in the first place was it?) But to many this would be reinventing the wheel and milking an old story, like the gundam AU whose storyline is so predictable for the older audience because although it looks different it contain all the same ingredients: A guy with a mask, a kid with an uncanny knowledge of machines, people with psychic powers, the use of colony drop as a last ditch attempt to kill sizable population of the planet (great population control strategy ) etc

But the good thing for this is it would keep the macross name alive in the newer generation fans' minds. (if macross II never happened we might not have even seen any future macross stories)

See I think after the TV series macross was really supposed to be closed off forever. The story that was told was told, and the fans should have expected to wither away and forget it, moving onto new things. The only reason today why toys are around might be that they want to cash in on the adult fans who are old enough to spend wads of cash on high detail versions of thier favourite things for nostalgiac reasons. But compared to gundam it is pretty much only a harcore cult following more than mainstream.

Edited March 7, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Graham]

See? The VF-0 is an anorexic VF-1!

375999[/snapback]

Calling the VF-0 anorexic and using the above side-by-side lineart pics for comparison is being a bit unfair to the VF-0.

Although in the above pics, the VF-1 and VF-0 appear to be the same size, this is not the case. The above pics are not in scale to each other and in fact the VF-0 is actually much larger than the VF-1.

See the pic below for a correct in-scale comparison of the VF-1 and VF-0. Far from being anorexic, the VF-0 looks like it could easily kick sand in the face of the VF-1.

Graham

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Well I am one of those that like the skinny valk look if it is skinny all over. But if you look at the "popeye the sailor man" forearm in the bottom pic, the vf1 actually looks beefy. Short plus wide = stout. Tall and skinny = clumsy and delicate. Note how the shoulders are kinda squarish and tough looking, giving the robot a more menacing look to it? (unlike the vf11 it is well armored on all sides)

I wish the 1/48 yamato had the 'man arms' of the 1/60 yamato and beefy hands to hold the gunpod. Too skinny is bad if other parts are fat.

Edited March 8, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

See? The VF-0 is an anorexic VF-1!

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/graham/comparison.png

375999[/snapback]

Calling the VF-0 anorexic and using the above side-by-side lineart pics for comparison is being a bit unfair to the VF-0.

Although in the above pics, the VF-1 and VF-0 appear to be the same size, this is not the case. The above pics are not in scale to each other and in fact the VF-0 is actually much larger than the VF-1.

See the pic below for a correct in-scale comparison of the VF-1 and VF-0. Far from being anorexic, the VF-0 looks like it could easily kick sand in the face of the VF-1.

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/graham...-comparison.jpg

Graham

377832[/snapback]

It still has skinny girly arms.

[Noriko Takaya]

First off, I love the original design of the VF-1. To tamper with it is sacrilage.

Second, when did we start to refer to his majesty, the Hory Froating Head, as "SK"? Have some respect people.

Finally, I think MW has found its new MGREXX in this Phalanx guy.

[The6ftTallAZN]

Phalanx, I was one of the ones that thought the VF-0 was an updated VF-1 before I knew it was for M0 so I would think that the VF-0 is a redesigned VF-1. And going back to your color scheme thing, what you're sort of saying is that I could paint a valk like a gundam and call the valk a gundam, or take the side stripes that say "Mustang" off my Mustang, slap em on a VW beetle and call that a mustang. Or for another example the navy paints F/A-18s like Mig-29s but they're still not migs. In other words paint schemes really don't matter that much, I mean if you painted a valk or gundam like a clown you would still be able to tell the difference because of their designs.

[Phalanx]

After a 5 hour hiatus from my thread I have decided to leave it open forever so that anybody can get all of their points out. I failed miserabley to get others to feel convinced that a UNOFFICIAL, very close in all details and design of the VF-1 for modeling purposes is what I wanted. It looks like everybody is still bashing on me for ever bringing up this topic of mine but that made me ask, how many of you like this controversial discussion and how many of you didn't?

Also Noriko, what's an MGREXX?

Second thanx Low Viz Lurker for making me feel good about myself where you said I was persistent not stupid. I was just mad at JB0 for calling me stupid, not because nobody else agreed with me. Funny because nobody still agrees with me after all these pages of posts; not even one person. But I'm still back in the game like a GI JOE( punchline from Mario's-you got what I need song). I feel that some of you are anxious to hear a response from me so I'm ready to keep on continuing my thread.

[Rocket Punch]

I failed miserabley to get others to feel convinced that a UNOFFICIAL, very close in all details and design of the VF-1 for modeling purposes is what I wanted.

...nobody still agrees with me after all these pages of posts; not even one person.

377869[/snapback]

You should work on your debating skills. Your arguments tend to be circular.

And about whether some of us liked this thread or not, check out the pardoy thread I started that azrael closed. He gets a "boooo!" for that!

[JB0]

After a 5 hour hiatus from my thread I have decided to leave it open forever so that anybody can get all of their points out.

You know, you actually have no capacity to close this thread.

Unless a mod or admin is offended by/pities it, it continues in perpetuity until it ceases to draw posts. At some message boards, the announcement that you were going to kill your thread would merely convince the powers that be to leave it open in perpetuity for amusement purposes.

I failed miserabley to get others to feel convinced that a UNOFFICIAL, very close in all details and design of the VF-1 for modeling purposes is what I wanted.

Vee. Eff. Zero.

Also Noriko, what's an MGREXX?

A weak-minded fool. And a troll. And a good source of comic relief.

I was just mad at JB0 for calling me stupid, not because nobody else agreed with me.

I didn't call you stupid.

Implied, perhaps. There's a big diffrence there.

Funny because nobody still agrees with me after all these pages of posts; not even one person.

See, we all HAD this discussion back when Macross Zero came out.

Everyone recognized the VF-0 as a VF-1 remake, and we had a big back-and-forth about whether the real VF-1 should have been used or if the VF-0 was actually a decent idea.

[Phalanx]

I apologize JB0 for overreacting out sheer anger and misunderstandings. But are you saying that the forum Admins are actually leaving my topic open due to teh fact that they found it interesting yet controversial because I think you maybe right. I wanted to this close this thread earlier but I think they left it open because they still want to hear other people opinion's. Also Rocket Punch, you do have to forgive me for having my arguments circular because this is my first time in a message board debating on issues. I've visited message boards across the internet with different topics but wasn't interested in giving my opinions. I don't have alot of experience in debating on issues in forums since this my first time to actually be a part of a thread but I hope that my arguments become more clear to you.

[JB0]

I apologize JB0 for overreacting out sheer anger and misunderstandings.  

No biggie. I get that a lot.

  But are you saying that the forum Admins are actually leaving my topic open due to teh fact that they found it interesting yet controversial because I think you maybe right. I wanted to this close this thread earlier but I think they left it open because they still want to hear other people opinion's.

I think it's more that there's no actual reason TO close the thread yet.

Admittedly, better threads have been closed for lesser reasons than those present here(regardless of your views, there ARE some fair justifications for a lock buried), but it all comes down to the whim of the guy with the button.

[macplus]

Phalanx are you the same guy who was doing a lot of gundam related drawings some time ago( the chicken gundam IIRC), also some sort of macross-star trek combo thing???

[Phyrox]

After a 5 hour hiatus from my thread I have decided to leave it open forever so that anybody can get all of their points out.

I don't think you understand how this, and other, message boards work.

First of all, like JB0 said, only mods/admins have any power to close threads and the like. Secondly, this isn't "your" thread. Once a member opens a thread with their original post, it belongs to the community, as it were. This will save you some frustration if "your" threads get hijacked or locked in the future. Also, since it isn't "your" thread, you don't really need to reply and respond to every other members' posts.

That's it.

[Sundown]

Finally, what I've been saying earlier was leave the original VF-1 design OFFICIAL while leaving a close resemblance redesign of it for (model kit work) either SEMI-OFFICIAL or UNOFFICIAL. I'm not saying that this VF-1 redesign should replace the original one, OK?

377613[/snapback]

Phalanx, I think a lot of us are still confused here.

Can you explain why the VF-0 isn't close enough to what you're looking for? If you look at it, it's basically a VF-1 with a surface overhaul. What about it disqualifies it to you as a "VF-1 redesign", when pretty much any VF-1 redesign incorporating modern aesthetics would look extremely similar to the VF-0?

Even the VF-1SOL you pointed out earlier looks a lot more like a VF-0 than a VF-1. So, again, what makes the VF-0 not good enough? If you could explain that, maybe folks could understand what exactly you mean by a "redesigned VF-1". Because every time you describe it, it sounds to me and everyone here like you're exactly describing a VF-0, as far as looks are concerned, except for one little numerical difference in their designations.

Do you want an "unofficial Kawamori VF-1 redesign" so you can imagine that that's how it really looks like in your personal version and vision of Macross, where in that version, the "boxy" VF-1 never existed?

[Black Valkyrie]

Where`s the admin when you need him !

[azrael]

Where`s the admin when you need him !

377964[/snapback]

Hey, most of us work, eat, and sleep. Except for Graham, he does all that in the opposite order from us living in HK....

And yes Phalanx, this isn't really your thread. As I explained when I locked your other thread:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...ndpost&p=377700

This isn't your personal blog. This is a forum. Get use to people bitching, moaning, whining, people who don't like you, and all that good stuff. And if this is your first adventure into the forum world, welcome.

Now, Sundown has a point, what do you want in your unofficial redesign? Give us more pictures, more ideas, something, anything....throw us a bone.

[Neova]

...

See the pic below for a correct in-scale comparison of the VF-1 and VF-0. Far from being anorexic, the VF-0 looks like it could easily kick sand in the face of the VF-1. 

Graham

377832[/snapback]

Now I really wish Yamato would just make the VF-0S in 1/48 scale and keep the price the same!

BTW: Hasegawa already did update the VF-1 to TODAY'S STANDARDS with their "model kits". BEST modernized rendition of the VF-1 in a fixed pose so far! Hasegawa needs to release it in 1/60 or 1/48 scale!

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...jfeb01page1.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...jfeb01page2.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...jfeb01page3.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...jfeb01page4.jpg

Edited March 8, 2006 by Neova

[Sdf-1]

Ah, the beauty of Hasegawa Valkyries....

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Models are cool. Yamato needs to make fixed posed robot hands as cool as the ones in those pics. I always thought it was unfair that the DYRL valks only got one pair of hands while the tv ones got two pairs. (maybe when they get around to giving us some macross plus valks)

Edited March 8, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Phalanx]

No macplus, I didn't draw any gundam realted pictures.

Second everybody, My fault for saying that this is my thread, it belongs to the community.

OK Sundown, IMHO the VF-0 still doesn't look much like a redesign of the VF-1 because in the fighter mode of the VF-0, it looks ugly. It looks like a even more crappy version of the VF-1 just larger. If I draw more pictures of my "redesigned" VF-1, in which I'm currently working on right now but I don't have a scanner just yet. So it'll be a while before my drawings show up on the thread. But you guys can hold out till then, can ya? I know it's still a little confusing to all of you but the pictures will hopefully clear up any confusion you have. In addition to that Sundown, I'm not saying that the original VF-1 should be replaced by the redesign. I don't mind the original official one staying since a vast majority of you guys are still very fond of it. I just want the unofficial redesign for modeling purposes. However, it's best if you compared the VF-1S is to the VF-0S, where the VF-0S has two head laser while the VF-1S has 4 head lasers. Not close, in terms of head details but if you notice the similarities between the standard VF-1S and the VF-1S SOL (refer to that screenshot several pages back), the battroid mode for the VF-1S SOL retains that wide U-shaped black and yellow stripe along it's chest plate like the original does. The VF-0S does not. See what I'm saying.

[UN_MARINE]

wow... 10 pages already ? when's it gonna end ?

phalanx,

if you wanna talk 'redesign smack', take it to the fan works section, there's an old topic about this sort of thing over there. mind you, you're gonna have to come up with something better than MS paint.

and...

the VF 1 is perfect the way it is.

you design NEW things that PAY HOMAGE to perfection.

you don't redesign PERFECT.

EDIT:

gah !! made it worse... page 11

Edited March 8, 2006 by UN_MARINE

[Phalanx]

I guess you're right UN MARINE. After all, it was the only example I could think of at the moment. I know that you and the others think that the original VF-1 Iis perfect and It's all good , but from my POV it's only 75% perfect in terms of it's capabiliteis. The other 25% comes from my personal redesign as it's body is more modern. It'll be 100% perfect to me with it's sleek, modern design and it's capabilities. But if you insist that perfect things don't need to be tampered with, I agree. In terms of all the other VF designs, They're absolutely perfect with sleek desgins and capabilities. Hope I didn't confuse you with this and I think I'll check that page out BTW for those VF paint schemes

[Rocket Punch]

OK Sundown, IMHO the VF-0 still doesn't look much like a redesign of the VF-1 because in the fighter mode of the VF-0, it looks ugly. It looks like a even more crappy version of the VF-1 just larger.

378044[/snapback]

So essentially you're saying even though it is obvious to 99.9999999% of people that the VF-0 is a redesigned VF-1, given it's GLARING similarities to the VF-1, you don't consider it a redesigned VF-1 because you don't like it and you think it's ugly?

No offense bro, but you reek of pretentiousness.

[GutsAndCasca]

Okay, this will solve the anachronism - the new VF-0 

374932[/snapback]

I am laughing right now

[honneamise]

"You must come full circle to find the truth" *

Phalanx needs a dozen circles and STILL doesn´t find anything..........

*song title by Sketch Show, japanese electronic band, possibly taken from Haruki Murakami

[Phalanx]

Yep Rocket Punch, you could pretty much say that but I'm that type of guy that likes things to look perfect. But when it comes to that VF-1SOL S battloid pic I snagged, you guys insisted that the VF-0 looks very close to the VF-1SOL and although it looks very close tthe VF-0's battloid mode, it still looks ugly to me in Fighter mode because the wings are longer than half of the main body and the wings are designed ugly. IMO, The VF-0D looks better than the VF-0 because it's clipped dog tooth delta wings make look better. But to go more into details on what makes the VF-0 ugly, it would be that the VF-0's nose is a little bulky IMO, despite the fact that SK said that the VF-0'S nose based ofF of the VF-19' and the wings like I said earlier, look ugly.

So, heres the rundown for your understanding of my redesign of the VF-1:

90% understanding- Phalanx wants an Unofficial updated redesign of the VF-1 for model kit work as long as it doesn't replace the original official one.

10% misunderstanding-What or How exactly does Phalanx want it to look like.

[GreatMoose]

Look, this is real simple. Think of the VF-0 as a concept car, and the VF-1 as the production version. The concept car almost ALWAYS looks much more "futuristic" than the eventual production version (although that trend is declining in recent years). Makes perfect sense to me, but then again, I'm old.

***Get off my lawn, you damn kids!!!!***

--Sorry to poke the burning dog, but I had to put in my two sheckels.

Edited March 8, 2006 by GreatMoose

[ghostryder]

Is this what you had in mind? Touch it up to reflect your vision, and let's end this thread..

[Rocket Punch]

Phalanx wants an Unofficial updated redesign of the VF-1 for model kit work as long as it doesn't replace the original official one.

378162[/snapback]

Dude, why don't you just scratchbuild a kit yourself if you want an UNOFFICIAL update to the VF-1 and get off of it? Kawamori-san isn't going to do ANYTHING unofficially!

[JB0]

Yep Rocket Punch, you could pretty much say that but I'm that type of guy that likes things to look perfect. But when it comes to that VF-1SOL S battloid pic I snagged, you guys insisted that the VF-0 looks very close to the VF-1SOL and although it looks very close tthe VF-0's battloid mode, it still looks ugly to me in Fighter mode because the wings are longer than half of the main body and the wings are designed ugly.  IMO, The VF-0D looks better than the VF-0 because it's clipped dog tooth delta wings make look better. But to go more into details on what makes the VF-0 ugly, it would be that the VF-0's nose is a little bulky IMO, despite the fact that SK said that the VF-0'S nose based ofF of the VF-19' and the wings like I said earlier, look ugly.

So, heres the rundown for your understanding of my redesign of the VF-1:

90% understanding- Phalanx wants an Unofficial updated redesign of the VF-1 for model kit work as long as it doesn't replace the original official one.

10% misunderstanding-What or How exactly does Phalanx want it to look like.

378162[/snapback]

Basically, you want Kawamori to redesign it, but you want him to redesign it YOUR way instead of his.

AND you want Macross to be whored out like Gundam is.

Neither one's gonna happen.

Kawamori's done his redesign, and you didn't like it.

Macross has never been near as strong in the merchandising department, and the models are largely limited to popular animated designs. The mass-production models ARE limited to popular animated designs.