In anticipation of KILL BILL Volume 1 & 2.

[bsu legato]

Well I just rewatched Vol 1 last night, and I'd say I have to give it an "OK."

The problem I have with it is that Tarantino is TOO sucessful at aping all his favorite chopsockey/grindhouse/kunk-fusploitation flicks, but Kill Bill does little to actually rise above them. It's in no way better than any of them. Even if you're a die hard fan of these films, you'd be hard pressed to argue that any of them are truly great films. But because Kill Bill has Tarantino's name attached to it, we're told it's like the Second Coming.

To put in a different light, if I were to direct an "action/revenge" spectacle, it would likely be drawn from the movies I grew up with. Films like Commando, Raw Deal, Rambo: First Blood 2, and the like. Movies that we've all seen, and are still a guilty pleasure for some of us, but none of them are what I'd call great films. Now if I make my movie (Lets call it "Raw Bloody Commando: The Revenge") and it does nothing to elevate itself above the old 80's action films, should it be called a great film just because my name is attached to it? I don't think so.

Taken for what it is (without the media hype) Kill Bill Vol. 1 is an adequate revenge/action film. However, it is NOT Tarantino's best. film. evar.

[Opus]

I think the action was a little too repetitive. It was sorta like watching someone play a hack n' slash video game. At leat the movies being mimicked had some variety. Exploding heads, torn out throats, ripped off balls etc... Not just hacked off limbs.

Also, what's up with having Sonny Chiba in your movie but not letting him kick some ass? I'd rather watch "The Streetfighter" any day.

[bsu legato]

Also, what's up with having Sonny Chiba in your movie but not letting him kick some ass? I'd rather watch "The Streetfighter" any day.

To me, that was clearly a case of Tarantino saying "Hey look at me, I got Sonny Chiba in my f*ckin' movie!" A pretty pointless cameo, just because he could.

When I make my "Kill Bill," I'm going to cast Ah-nuld as the Hot-Dog Vendor in scene 82.

[Agent ONE]

...When I make my "Kill Bill," I'm going to cast Ah-nuld as the Hot-Dog Vendor in scene 82.

THAT would make any movie better... Did you see the Rundown? Thats basically what he did.

[Agent ONE]

To everyone who didn't like the movie:

See Part 2... As Tarantino said (paraphrase) 'people who saw part one weren't sure if this was a Bruce Lee tribute, a love story, a revenge movie, or a martial arts film... They will only know at the end of part 2.'

[Opus]

Also, what's up with having Sonny Chiba in your movie but not letting him kick some ass? I'd rather watch "The Streetfighter" any day.

To me, that was clearly a case of Tarantino saying "Hey look at me, I got Sonny Chiba in my f*ckin' movie!" A pretty pointless cameo, just because he could.

When I make my "Kill Bill," I'm going to cast Ah-nuld as the Hot-Dog Vendor in scene 82.

One other thing that peeved me was calling Chiba's charachter Hanzo Hattori. The greatest ninja ever reduced to a swordsmith. WTF?

When I make my movie it's going to be a buddy/revenge flick starring Ah-nuld and Mr. T .It'll be all one liners and go something like this:

Ah-nold: Ahl be bahck!

Mr. T: Stop all that jibba jabba and drink your milk fool!

Agent ONE:CROM laughs at you, milk drinking girly man!

I know I'm not funny but humor me

[Blaine23]

If I were making a bad 80's action flick, it'd be a buddy flick with Jesse Ventura and Ahnuld's buddy Sven Thorrsen. They would have to fight an evil Eddie Murphy.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Everyone knows that the movie I make would be a combination of Bergman and Fincher with symbolism, metaphor and subdued dialogue that film and english students everywhere would analyze and find hidden meanings in.

The chopping off of the legs symbolizes the Brides' own frustration with moving her big toe which is a metaphysical representation of her motivating herself to kill bill which itself is a metaphor for her hatred of her father who is not in the movie because of Tarantino's own father complex... so the movie Kill Bill is really about Tarantino avoiding his father at dinner.

Who am I kidding, I'd make a 'Nam movie so technically accurate it would bore the pants off of census takers and rocket scientists.

[Agent ONE]

...

When I make my movie it's going to be a buddy/revenge flick starring Ah-nuld and Mr. T .It'll be all one liners and go something like this:

Ah-nold: Ahl be bahck!

Mr. T: Stop all that jibba jabba and drink your milk fool!

Agent ONE:CROM laughs at you, milk drinking girly man!

...

If that movie was made Hollywood could just quit making movies, there would be no way to top it.

[bsu legato]

Who am I kidding, I'd make a 'Nam movie so technically accurate it would bore the pants off of census takers and rocket scientists.

I'll buy that on DVD, but only if you provide a feature length commentary track.

"And here we have the characters eating their K rations. We spent 3 million dollars replicating the exact packaging used in 1967, and I really think it shows onscreen. However, we couldn't get the forks to look right, so we had ILM replace them with CGI doubles."

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'll buy that on DVD, but only if you provide a feature length commentary track.

What are you blind? My whole movie is just one big 4 hour long commentary track!

[bsu legato]

I'll buy that on DVD, but only if you provide a feature length commentary track.

What are you blind? My whole movie is just one big 4 hour long commentary track!

Ok then, at least give us a "Making Of" documentary that's actually longer than the movie itself.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Ok then, at least give us a "Making Of" documentary that's actually longer than the movie itself.

... and it will be called "Hearts of Dumbass: the Making of the Making of the Writing of the Screenplay for Apocalypse Wow!"

[Agent ONE]

Ok then, at least give us a "Making Of" documentary that's actually longer than the movie itself. 

... and it will be called "Hearts of Dumbass: the Making of the Making of the Writing of the Screenplay for Apocalypse Wow!"

That DVD would be worth it only with a 'behind the scenes' feature in the extras.

[JsARCLIGHT]

That DVD would be worth it only with a 'behind the scenes' feature in the extras.

Taking a page from the new Muhammad Ali book "GOAT" My DVD will come in a special collector's edition UH-1D Huey Cobra gunship piloted by Willem Defoe in his costume from the movie and retail for $1.4 million dollars... of which only four will be made (as cloning is expensive) and sold at auciton. The DVD set will be the movie, the making of, the making of the making of, the behind the scenes making of, the making of the behind the scenes making of, the TV spots, the movie trailers, lobby cards, a special limited edition greeting and speach from the director, candid shots of the director napping on his couch, candid shots of the test audience napping during the movie...

... you get the picture...

Now back to your regularly scheduled Kill Bill lovefest.

Can someone tell my why when Lucy Liu's head was whacked askew the brain was still neatly tucked inside and not cleaved off like her scalp?

[Max Jenius]

People keep telling me that this movie is a homage to old martial arts films, but JsArclight hit the nail on the head. I said to a friend during and after(to another friend) that it seemed like it was a Martial Arts movie made for people that don't watch Martial Arts movies.

Like Tarantino saw a Bruce Lee movie once and was like "Hmm, I can rip this off and everyone will love it because whenever they see it, they'll think of this movie."

The fight scenes that I heard soooo much about were boring and while I'm no expert, it didn't seem like anyone in the entire movie knew how to use a sword(or at least choreograph a fight scene). I've been more excited during Highlander: The Series fights and those didn't have blood spraying everywhere. I'm no prude either, but there's so much blood in her fight against the Crazy 88 or whatever that it just got annoying. I'm not the biggest fan of Tarantino, but I did appreciate his flair for dialogue and was expecting some witty banter, again... I was disappointed.

I'm going to watch the second in the hopes that it may serve to redeem the first...

But hell, they could have probably cut the bullshit out of volume 1 and still had room for 2 sans bs.

Can someone tell my why when Lucy Liu's head was whacked askew the brain was still neatly tucked inside and not cleaved off like her scalp?

Shut up! That's why! We noticed that too, I'm assuming QT saw that in a movie that he's "paying homage to" and liked it.

[Mechwarrior]

Wow, the second part was just as good as the first, and I loved the first part. No doubt the movie will do good in the theaters, maybe even pass up ole Helloboy. I know I am going to see it again tonight. QT does it again with his unpredictable directing.

[Agent ONE]

People keep telling me that this movie is a homage to old martial arts films, but JsArclight hit the nail on the head. I said to a friend during and after(to another friend) that it seemed like it was a Martial Arts movie made for people that don't watch Martial Arts movies.

...

This may be true, to tell you the truth I really never cared for those old things... I thought that they were korny with all that blood sprayin all over the place, that is why I found Kill Bill so entertaining. It kind of made fun of all that lame crap in a way.

[Golden Arms]

I just got back from KillBill and I loved it. For those of you that haven't seen it I suggest you hang around at the end of the film and watch the end credits. QT even thanked the alamo drafthouse. They are a group of theathers here in Austin. During SWSW QT has shown films at them. Gordon Liu even visited here and talked before vol 1.

Max I think some your criticsm is a little off base. I'm pretty certain that Woo Ping's stunt team are pretty versed in handling swords. They play the crazy 88's for those that don't know. If you've ever seen anything on Hong Kong stunt teams you'd realize that they're usually composed of excellent martial artist. Hell, above average martial artist aren't good enough to even be on his stunt team. It takes alot of training and timing to get the chereoghy Sp? So I think you can forgive Uma or Daryl Hannah if they don't always come out looking like they were born with swords in their hands. KIllbill isnt only a homage to old school marial arts movies but others as well. Revenge flicks, Samurai movies, Spagetti Westerns and Japanese splatter house movies. Alot of the homages QT uses are very specific. You can't watch a "few Bruce Lee movies" and and get the genre down. The most noticable homages to Bruce are the Green Hornet music and the yellow jumpsuit (game of death). Anyone whos seen Game of death will get that one down. The character Pai Mai is a huge homage to Old school Shaw Bros movies. The fact that he has Gordon Liu of all people playing Pai Mai is very ironic. Once again not another homage you can get by watching a few Bruce Lee movies like you said. Sad to say that most of the people that will see killbill probably don't even know who Gordon Liu is. Thats one of the things I like best about QT. He often revives interest in forgotten actors and films. Harvey Kitel, John travota, Robert Forrester, Pam Grier, etc etc.

These two films don't have the witty banther or dialogue like his other films for a reason. He didn't want them too, its deliberate. Besides it would have been out of place. This is a revenge flick btw. Watch a few samurai films, when warriors square off in them their dialogue is minimal, just like a samurai's actions. No wasted motion or action. Everthing is straight too the punch. I like the fact he didn't go the safe route and decide to make the film "witty" like his other films. It shows some guts to go away from a proven formula and try something different every once and awhile.

BTW I can't wait for Hero to come out. I stars Jet Li and Tony Leung. I don't think they've ever done a film together. I seems that Jet has finally been given another good film. American Directors don't have a clue with him. They over rely on the wire fu. Jet Li is the one of only guy on the planet that doesn't need alot of FX to like like a badass. He is the FX. I've been saddened by his American films. They pale in comparison to his previous work and the work that he's capable of accomplising.

Edited April 17, 2004 by Golden Arms

[JsARCLIGHT]

Well, I for one did not get a single one of the movie's "inside references". I'm not what you would call a chop-socky or samurai movie watcher... never had any interest in them. When I heard about Kill Bill the first thing I heard was that it was a film by Tarantino... my mind immediately began filling with images of circular conversations about french fast food names, a man named Zed and his being dead, rambling stories of entering the mens room with a pocket full of chronic only to find four policemen and a police dog, weapons that can absolutely, positively kill every mother f'er in the room and pestering lewis where he parked the van.

To me, Tarantino is witty banter, kooky sideways editing and a snaking story that never comes together until the last ten minutes. Kill Bill part one had only one of those: the kooky editing... and even that was very bland and straightforward.

I myself am just chalking this movie up to "some people "get it" and some don't", myself being in the "I don't get it" camp. To me, not knowing all the supposed references and draws, the movie is just a long drawn out confusing mess with way too much blood. It almost seems like the qualifications for being in the movie are A) can you scream real loud and run around with a sword, B) is your blood and other internal organs at about 4,000 PSI and C) can you speak japanese with no subtitles accented with the occasional blurb of pigin english...

Which brings me to another complaint about the movie (I know, I know, shut up already you not liking the movie buttpipe): WTF is with the sound editing on the DVD? This movie has to be the worst volume tripper I have ever seen to date. What does this rambling fool mean by "volume tripper"? Well that is what I call a movie that has such terrible sound mixing that the music, sound effects and background elements drown out the dialogue on my 6.1 system at home and I have to keep cranking the volume up to hear what people are saying and then quickly turn it back down when some action happens lest I blow out my speakers. And no, my system is calibrated just fine and only certain movies have this issue when I watch them. It also does not help matters much that most of the cast in this movie mumbles or speaks unsubtitled japanese. Half of the time on some scenes, like the intro when Bill is wiping the blood of the bride's face, I had to rewind and rewatch the scene two or three times with my ear to the speaker just to make out what the hell Caradine was trying to say. Was he talking with gum and walnuts in his mouth for half this movie? Same goes for Uma and the rest of the cast. Outside of Buck who likes to F##k everyone barely opens their mouth when they talk and when they do open their mouth it is usually a scream or a yell in unsubtitled japanese.

I just keep getting this feeling that people like me where simply not ment to "get" this movie.

[Golden Arms]

Well, I for one did not get a single one of the movie's "inside references". I'm not what you would call a chop-socky or samurai movie watcher... never had any interest in them. When I heard about Kill Bill the first thing I heard was that it was a film by Tarantino... my mind immediately began filling with images of circular conversations about french fast food names, a man named Zed and his being dead, rambling stories of entering the mens room with a pocket full of chronic only to find four policemen and a police dog, weapons that can absolutely, positively kill every mother f'er in the room and pestering lewis where he parked the van.

To me, Tarantino is witty banter, kooky sideways editing and a snaking story that never comes together until the last ten minutes. Kill Bill part one had only one of those: the kooky editing... and even that was very bland and straightforward.

I myself am just chalking this movie up to "some people "get it" and some don't", myself being in the "I don't get it" camp. To me, not knowing all the supposed references and draws, the movie is just a long drawn out confusing mess with way too much blood. It almost seems like the qualifications for being in the movie are A) can you scream real loud and run around with a sword, B) is your blood and other internal organs at about 4,000 PSI and C) can you speak japanese with no subtitles accented with the occasional blurb of pigin english...

Which brings me to another complaint about the movie (I know, I know, shut up already you not liking the movie buttpipe): WTF is with the sound editing on the DVD? This movie has to be the worst volume tripper I have ever seen to date. What does this rambling fool mean by "volume tripper"? Well that is what I call a movie that has such terrible sound mixing that the music, sound effects and background elements drown out the dialogue on my 6.1 system at home and I have to keep cranking the volume up to hear what people are saying and then quickly turn it back down when some action happens lest I blow out my speakers. And no, my system is calibrated just fine and only certain movies have this issue when I watch them. It also does not help matters much that most of the cast in this movie mumbles or speaks unsubtitled japanese. Half of the time on some scenes, like the intro when Bill is wiping the blood of the bride's face, I had to rewind and rewatch the scene two or three times with my ear to the speaker just to make out what the hell Caradine was trying to say. Was he talking with gum and walnuts in his mouth for half this movie? Same goes for Uma and the rest of the cast. Outside of Buck who likes to F##k everyone barely opens their mouth when they talk and when they do open their mouth it is usually a scream or a yell in unsubtitled japanese.

I just keep getting this feeling that people like me where simply not ment to "get" this movie.

You don't have to "get" the in references to enjoy the film J. They're mainly for QT to pay respect for the films he loves, and for genre geeks like myself to oogle over. His other films did the same thing. Reservoir Dogs was a ode to John Carpenters "The Thing" and Chow Yun Fats City War or City on Fire can't remember which one. Jackie Brown was a homage to baxploitation films of the 60's and 70's.

Vol 2 has alot more dialogue/exposition that wasn't evident in vol 1. They feel like different films in some respects. Vol 1 all action, vol 2 storytelling/dialogue with some action. KillBill would have been a much more effective film if Miramax wasn't so deadset on splitting the film in half. Splitting the film into 2 really pushed the editing. After seeing both films I can clearly say the the fight at The House of Blue Leaves was the big action climax. I'll be very interested to see if QT redits the film for the dvd release that will contain both vol 1 and vol 2.

I don't have a decked out sound system in my living room so I can't really address your concerns over the sound quality of the DVD. Mine doesn't sound bad in my tv, and from what I read about the dvd release suggest that he used the best possible sound transfers for the dvd.

Hey JsARCLIGHT here are a couple of homages off the top of my head that influenced killbill. Many of which you can find in a good movie rental store. Now do your homework

Kung Fu the series--- Stars David Carradine who plays Bill The series was supposed to star Bruce Lee but didn't b/c racism

Fist of the White Lotus--- Shaw Bros movie sequel to executioner from shaolin stars Gordon Liu and Lo Lieh plays White Lotus Chief who looks just like Pai Mei. Pei Mei has a finishing move called the 99 steps technique. Gordons characters combines snake and crane technique to fight Pai mei Both techniques appear in vol ?

Executioner from Shaolin--- Shaw Bros movie see above cast Lo Lieh plays priest Pai Mei who in league with his whitelotus sect and the Ching army attempt to crush the shaolin temple and Ming Rebels , Vol ? of KillBill makes use of the old Shaw bros studio set in hong Kong (The stairs)

8 diagram pole fighter/ Master Killer-- Shaw bros movies star Gordon Liu maybe the two best martial arts films ever made. Lots of training sequences. You can't have a kung Fu film without training sequences. Training sequences are brilliant ways to demonstrate character growth,development and progression.

Eagles Claw-- Martial art Technique displayed in Vol ? Appears in countless old school kung Fu movies (snake in the eagles shadow, Iron Monkey 1977)

The Five deadly venoms--- Directed by Chang Cheh movie about 5 students of the venom clan each taught a diff style snake,toad, lizard, centipede, scorpion reference in movie Divas, 5 assasins code named after venomous snakes Killbill is dedicated to him

Ichi the Killer--japanese splatter house film if you think the violence in Killbill was bad, you haven't seen anything yet See also Battle Royale and Versus

The princess Blade-- Story of a female assasin who is betrayed by her clan

Spagetti westerns-- 60's movies directed by sergio Leone-- His movies often starred Lee Van Clief and Clint Eastwood as the "Man with no Name" In The Good the Bad and the ugly he's only known as Blondie-- in KillBill Uma is referred as "The Bride" Some of the music in both vols sounds spagetti westernish

Akira Kurosawa-- Directed samuraiand Yakuza films of the 60's Many of the Spagetthi Westerns are adaptations of some of his films

Shogun Assasin 1 and 2-- referenced in vol ? samurai films

I Spit on your grave-- 60's Chick gets Revenge on those who abused her and left her for dead

Mr Majestic-- Charles Bronson film, poster in vol ? Revenge flick KillBill is dedicated to him

Game of Death--- Bruce Lee flick He wears the same yellow jumper that Uma sports in vol 1

Godzilla movies--- Monster movie sounds in the House of blue leaves scene

The Green Hornet tv series-- QT uses the shows theme music

Ironside-- 60's or 70's? tv show once again theme music

Johnny Cash-- His music is used in vol ? ( Scene with Bud)

There are alot more obscure references to other films, actors, music etc that I'm not familiar with as well.

Iron Monkey -- Directed by Yuen Woo Ping stars Donnie Yen--QT does a interview on the films dvd release

The Street fighter Movies--- Stars Sonny Chiba(Hattori Hanzo) as a mean a@# assasin-- he kills people rather brutally

Edited April 17, 2004 by Golden Arms

[Max Jenius]

Well, when I see people with swords, I expect good fights. I don't know if anyone caught the part where Uma is literally wagging her sword back and forth, which I know for a fact isn't part of the art. If Keanu Reeves can do Kung Fu, Uma should be able to at least look cool holding a sword. As for the Crazy 88s, they sucked... their "general" was a fool. Liu was worthless.

The ugly japanese school girl fight was decent though. That fight and Uma's low sword blender were the high points.

I suppose I just expected more and if I had seen the multitude of films that this one is supposedly paying homage to, I'd expect more from them.

But from what I'm seeing, Kill Bill is almost all hype and there are few people that truly "get" it. (Golden Arms being one of them. ) But yeah... JsARCLIGHT pretty much sums it up.

Sorry I ruined your Black Pan'tha partay...

*shuffles away*

[Golden Arms]

Well, when I see people with swords, I expect good fights. I don't know if anyone caught the part where Uma is literally wagging her sword  back and forth, which I know for a fact isn't part of the art. If Keanu Reeves can do Kung Fu, Uma should be able to at least look cool holding a sword. As for the Crazy 88s, they sucked... their "general" was a fool. Liu was worthless.

The ugly japanese school girl fight was decent though. That fight and Uma's low sword blender were the high points.

I suppose I just expected more and if I had seen the multitude of films that this one is supposedly paying homage to, I'd expect more from them.

But from what I'm seeing, Kill Bill is almost all hype and there are few people that truly "get" it. (Golden Arms being one of them. ) But yeah...  JsARCLIGHT pretty much sums it up.

Sorry I ruined your Black Pan'tha partay...

*shuffles away*

The 88's were supposed to suck. In comparison to the Bride atleast. She had a Hanzo sword and training from %$# (*&. Uma's sword play wasn't that bad to me, but I'm no expert. And I'd wager that 95% of the people that see these KB couldn't tell the difference from a expert swordsman from a amatuer taught by a expert swordsman. Opinions are like Arseholes, we all have them. Like I told JsARCLIGHT you don't have to "get" all of the homages. He just throws them in there. Cool if you recognize, but not integral to enjoying the film. If the movie or any movie entertains you or takes you on a journey then its a success. Regardless of the subject matter. Everyone isn't going to like the same things in life. Many people like sushi I detest cold uncooked fish/meals. B/c I don't like sushi and romantic comedies doesn't mean that they don't have there own merit, they're just not my cup of tea. You sound like some of the reviewers who going into KB thought they were going to get more pulpfiction and were suprised when they didn't. If he made pulpfiction2 everyone would be complaining that it was as witty as pulpficiton one. Once again he choose to branch off in a different direction and try something new. Can't fault him for that. What makes QT so unique is that his films often transcend the genres that he choose to pay homage to. Not many directors are able to pull this off successfully. BTW how did you know that I was a member of the Black Panthers? I need to renew my membership.

Edited April 17, 2004 by Golden Arms

[Jolly Rogers]

I find it interesting that people find the need to bash a flick when they've only seen the first half. If I started bashing DYRL after having only seen the first hour...

[Max Jenius]

I find it interesting that people find the need to bash a flick when they've only seen the first half.  If I started bashing DYRL after having only seen the first hour... 

Nobody's bashing anything, the people that dislike KB have valid points and the people that DO like it also have valid points. Its called opinion baby. If I just said that it sucked and didn't say why I personally thought it sucked then perhaps it could be considered bashing.

Oh yeah, and Kill Bill is the first part of a series.. like the Matrix movies. People had no problems "bashing" Reloaded when it came out and Revolutions was still a ways off.

QT saw fit to release Volume 1 because he (and a lot of others) feel that it stands on its own. Unlike the first hour of DYRL, so your analogy is flawed. I'd liken it more to bashing Macross Plus after seeing the first episode or DVD for that matter, but still not quite.

Speaking of which, I do plan to see the second one in the hope that it manages to salvage the series for me... but if I don't like it then I hope QT dies before he can make a third. Still, that's all conditional. (Hey, it worked for Kubrick! )

[Mechwarrior]

I find it interesting that people find the need to bash a flick when they've only seen the first half. If I started bashing DYRL after having only seen the first hour...

Wouldn't even bother bringing up a point to these people. The movie was awesome in my opinion and nothing can change that. Not even those who are on 24/7, just looking for reasons to pad their post count, and would argue even if they did like it.

"That's a fact Jack"

How about that coffin scene? Sheds a whole new light on being buried alive. (yes, I do have claustrophobia)

[bandit29]

I said to a friend during and after(to another friend) that it seemed like it was a Martial Arts movie made for people that don't watch Martial Arts movies.

Ya that's what I thought when I saw it the theaters. Uma Thurman handling a sword and kicking ass is laughable. Thankfully that ugly ass Lucy Liu is dead. When I think of Japanese crime bosses she ain't it...But I liked the movie regardless. The ridiculous amounts of blood and cheezy lines etc. Hey I love Fist of the North Star and Berserk so..lol

I'll be checking out vol 2 sometime this weekend and my premium R2 box set of vol 1 has shipped from amazon.jp hooray!!

Edited April 17, 2004 by dejr8bud

[Agent ONE]

I saw volume 2 last night and it was awesome!

Perfect ending to Part 1, totally different though, there was much more character development than combat.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Judging by what people are saying and the reviews I'm reading Part 2 may be (to some degree) the Tarantino movie I was expecting. I'm now thinking of going to see it this weekend if I can muster the fiancee into going. She was really, really put off by all the blood in the first one so convincing her the next one will not be as bad may be an uphill fight.

Someone please let me know if the blood budget in the second part is at least half if not much less than the first one?

[EXO]

SPOILERS...

Saw the second one and while it a bit better than the last, I still didn't walk away thinking this was the movie I wanted to see. The thing that's confusing about these movies are you're enjoying yourself while your watching it but they never really fulfill in the areas they should. Max said something that I kept thinking in the movie. I thought that Keanu is a great martial artist when you put him next to Uma. She always looks strange when she was doing her moves. Those shots reminde me of those girls in school that only played Barbie and all of a sudden you give her an aluminum bat for softball. There was always an ackward feeling.

Another let down about the fights was that they were anticlimactic. No the bride does not kill Bud. Though the fight between Elle and the Bride was long and very violent, it would seem that there would have been a great swordfight to end it. Though it was a funny trade off. It was still a let down. BUT... you were guessing you weren't given that finale because there was still Bill. Guess what, the whole thing was done in 5 seconds, while they were sitting down.

Yes I got all the references and all the foretelling. While Bill was talking to the bride on the porch of the chapel, the street sign was "Agua Caliente" meaning she was standing in hot water. But at the end it was a whole lot of promises left unfulfilled.

I hope most of you enjoy it as much as the other people on this thread, but I think if you didn't enjoy the first one, you won't enjoy this one.

Wasn't there a character with Michael Jai White?

Edited April 17, 2004 by >EXO<

[Jemstone]

I saw this film last night and again today for a second viewing. I liked it last night and loved it today. I don't know what the hell people expect of Tarantino. I don't know why people expect artists to stick to a certain style rather than change and evolve in their work. I would be pretty pissed is people expected all my works to be the same and never have an range over time. I don't get why people here won't allow Tarantino as a film maker to grow and test the waters. It also seems some people saw either Kill Bill with closed minds because they already didn't like the established style of Tarantino and expected the very same all over again.

What you expect from Tarantino... Or is it what you bought into the overall media, the hype, and shallow expectations dictated by the media of what a Tarantino film should be? Yeah, their were lots of flaws as a martial arts film but I've seen plenty otehrs as well in 99% of American made films anyways. In fact this was much better than 99% of films made today with all for it's shortcomings. Definately better than Hellboy or the predictable Punisher. It wasn't long ago people were laughing when they heard Keanu Reeves was taking martial arts for a film and he was still ridiculed after that filmw as released (ya know that little movie about a guy in virtual world called the Matrix). Now Uma's not good enough on the screen. Damn, I'd sure like to see you anime watching, couch potatoe boys do better in some real training!

My only gripe is that I was expecting more gunplay but instead got very little (despite the use of my favorite gun, the shotgun) gunplay. Otherwise solid film that has a story (unlike what some bitched about the first) and I'll be waiting for an un abridged DVD release.

EDIT: I never thought of Superman from the angle the movie tackled. Then I suppose to some of you only a comic book fan or Superman junkie could "get" the insight of Bill's analogy.

Edited April 18, 2004 by Jemstone

[Golden Arms]

Yeah I loved vol 2 as well. Gotta see it again. I expected a little more gunplay as well. But QT already had his forays into gunfu with Reservoir Dogs and Dusk till Dawn. Did you see the Punisher? All of the critics have raked it over the coals. Seems that alot of the critics think that comics have to all be about superheroes. I plan on seeing it anyway. BTW I loved the supes Analogy. I've always thought the same about Batman.

I think the scenes with Michael Jai White were edited out of the film. I would have loved to see him in a few fight sequences.

Edited April 18, 2004 by Golden Arms

[JsARCLIGHT]

What you expect from Tarantino... Or is it what you bought into the overall media, the hype, and shallow expectations dictated by the media of what a Tarantino film should be?

If by this you mean "I saw all his previous films and fell in love with his kitchy writing and directing style and was dissapointed that those elements were not really seen so promenantly in Kill Bill" then yes I am guilty.

Yeah, their were lots of flaws as a martial arts film but I've seen plenty otehrs as well in 99% of American made films anyways. In fact this was much better than 99% of films made today with all for it's shortcomings. Definately better than Hellboy or the predictable Punisher. It wasn't long ago people were laughing when they heard Keanu Reeves was taking martial arts for a film and he was still ridiculed after that filmw as released (ya know that little movie about a guy in virtual world called the Matrix).

For the record I saw Hellboy and thought it was crap and I am a long outspoken critic and disliker of the Matrix. I myself could see no real "errors" made by any of the actors in the movie but instead I was put off by the ammount of blood in the fight scenes and not the choreography. Then again I have some things in my past that I remember when I see huge spraying pools of blood and I feel uncomfortable.

Damn, I'd sure like to see you anime watching, couch potatoe boys do better in some real training!

If it means anything I qualify with my cop friends every year they take the SLCP police department physicals... they sort of let me do it while they qualify, I do it just to have fun and hang out with them... the shooting accuracy is my favorite. I admit that crazy ass jujitsu and chop-socky are well beyond my abilities and I'd like to think that people can critisize the appearance of it without being able to do it themselves. Look at olympic judges... how many of them are ex-ice skaters or ex-gymnists? Very very few. And on topic how many movie critics or people with opinions on movies have actually made movies? My guess is about the same number. I myself work in an industry right now where my company has made a few TV commercials and animatics (which by no means make me a guru or specialist) but I know what I like. I was not that fond of Kill Bill. My opinion is based on my personal experience and feelings just as yours is and that opinion is just as valid as yours in this situation. I did not like it that much whereas you liked it.

I think my presence here is just pissing people off as it appears once again I can't "not like" something that everyone likes on this board. I'll just take my lunch to go then and back out of the bar slowly lest I get shot in the back running away.

[Mechamaniac]

What you expect from Tarantino... Or is it what you bought into the overall media, the hype, and shallow expectations dictated by the media of what a Tarantino film should be?

If by this you mean "I saw all his previous films and fell in love with his kitchy writing and directing style and was dissapointed that those elements were not really seen so promenantly in Kill Bill" then yes I am guilty.

Yeah, their were lots of flaws as a martial arts film but I've seen plenty otehrs as well in 99% of American made films anyways. In fact this was much better than 99% of films made today with all for it's shortcomings. Definately better than Hellboy or the predictable Punisher. It wasn't long ago people were laughing when they heard Keanu Reeves was taking martial arts for a film and he was still ridiculed after that filmw as released (ya know that little movie about a guy in virtual world called the Matrix).

For the record I saw Hellboy and thought it was crap and I am a long outspoken critic and disliker of the Matrix. I myself could see no real "errors" made by any of the actors in the movie but instead I was put off by the ammount of blood in the fight scenes and not the choreography. Then again I have some things in my past that I remember when I see huge spraying pools of blood and I feel uncomfortable.

Damn, I'd sure like to see you anime watching, couch potatoe boys do better in some real training!

If it means anything I qualify with my cop friends every year they take the SLCP police department physicals... they sort of let me do it while they qualify, I do it just to have fun and hang out with them... the shooting accuracy is my favorite. I admit that crazy ass jujitsu and chop-socky are well beyond my abilities and I'd like to think that people can critisize the appearance of it without being able to do it themselves. Look at olympic judges... how many of them are ex-ice skaters or ex-gymnists? Very very few. And on topic how many movie critics or people with opinions on movies have actually made movies? My guess is about the same number. I myself work in an industry right now where my company has made a few TV commercials and animatics (which by no means make me a guru or specialist) but I know what I like. I was not that fond of Kill Bill. My opinion is based on my personal experience and feelings just as yours is and that opinion is just as valid as yours in this situation. I did not like it that much whereas you liked it.

I think my presence here is just pissing people off as it appears once again I can't "not like" something that everyone likes on this board. I'll just take my lunch to go then and back out of the bar slowly lest I get shot in the back running away.

Well, I studied Iaido for many years, and still do. Additionally, I have studied Japanese history, culture, and particularly the Samurai for many years.

So, I can say that I enjoyed all the references to Japanese culture, anime, and swordmaking. I loved Sonny Chiba's character.

However, being a long time student of the sword, most of the swordplay was pure crap. Some of the stuff she did was OK, and I think they tried to stay somewhat true to actual practices, but the bottom line is that when you're staging a 1 on 88 fight scene, all that pretty much goes out the window....

Of course, the 1 on 88 fight theory is more or less real. Musashi, Miyamoto said in the Book of Five Rings that "when you can defeat one opponent at will, this is tantamount to being able to defeat everyone in the world. The spirit of overcoming others is the same even if there are thousands or tens of thousands of opponents."

he went on to say...

"When you have attained the power of the long sword, you can singlehandedly prevail over ten men"

So, in theory, 1 on 88 isn't such bad odds. Providing that your skill is better than your opponents, and your luck and will last...

As to the Tarantino issue, I enjoy his films, and this one was entertaining to be sure. However, I am not one of those people who covet every nugget they fish out of his toilet bowl as being his latest masterpiece.

[Blaine23]

As to the Tarantino issue, I enjoy his films, and this one was entertaining to be sure. However, I am not one of those people who covet every nugget they fish out of his toilet bowl as being his latest masterpiece.

Word to that. Aside from liking KB1 (seeing 2 tonight) and being one of the few who really dig Jackie Brown (I'm also a big Elmore Leonard fan)... there are definitely QT projects I'm not a huge fan of.

Four Rooms was pretty much a waste of film... save for the Rodriguez segment. And I'm a huge not a Dusk 'Til Dawn fan. And pretty much everything QT's acted in, aside from his cameo in Pulp and that movie was he does the whole Top Gun is gay speech, I've hated.

Ah, just found the Top Gun speech from a dumb movie called Sleep With Me. I'm fairly certain QT must have adlibbed it. Read it here on IMDB.

"Man, you can ride my tail, anytime!" And what does Maverick say? "You can ride mine!"

He kinda has a point... that movie's always been a bit swishy for me.