Primer Recommendations

[Awacs]

Forgive what may be a foolish question...

I'm considering repainting a 1/55th bootleg I have lying around in my collection (considering a variant of the Red-White-Blue Empire Test Pilots School colour scheme) and I'm wondering what is the best thing to use to prime it with.

Anyone found anything that works particularly well (or badly)?

Karl

[big F]

Forgive what may be a foolish question...

I'm considering repainting a 1/55th bootleg I have lying around in my collection (considering a variant of the Red-White-Blue Empire Test Pilots School colour scheme) and I'm wondering what is the best thing to use to prime it with.

Anyone found anything that works particularly well (or badly)?

Karl

366444[/snapback]

Well the best thing I have found so far for mine is white automotive primer in a can the type you get from the auto shops superstores we have Halfords over in the U.K, i cant remember what the equivalent is in the U.s but Autobacs come to mind for some reason. Basically anywhere that has the large rows of paint for all the different manufacturers and models in the hand held spray cans.

With mine I rubed them down with fine wet and dry and a bit of water. Cleanned em out with a nail brush and warm tap water and just before paint gave them a quick wipe over with Isopropanol alchol to make sure they were grease free.

I think the pmost of these type paints are now Acrylic based and they set well can be sanded and are not too thick laying as to cover details on the plastic parts. I have also used this same paint to prime resin and Vinyl and also on my 1/72 hasegawas.

The red colour for the Nissan Z300 just so happens to be the same (as near as I can get it ) to the colour on Hikarus Vf1-J and Milia`s red custom VF1-J. There are others of these paints that are also good Macross friendly matches for posible use.

Works for me and is cheap and I dont have to clean out my airbrush afterwards.

[Awacs]

"Well the best thing I have found so far for mine is white automotive primer in a can the type you get from the auto shops superstores we have Halfords over in the U.K, i cant remember what the equivalent is in the U.s but Autobacs come to mind for some reason."

S'okay. I live in the UK anyway, and am about 15 minutes walk from a Halfords in fact.

"The red colour for the Nissan Z300 just so happens to be the same (as near as I can get it ) to the colour on Hikarus Vf1-J and Milia`s red custom VF1-J. There are others of these paints that are also good Macross friendly matches for posible use."

What I'm actually going to be looking for is a match for the actual red of the ETPS scheme - probably end up hand-painting a lot of it anyway just to get the seperator stripe right, but that might be handy to know for doing the vertical stabilisers. Not sure why but I've got a picture of the ETPS scheme on a Valkyrie in my head for some reason and I'm not going to be able to shake it until I try it.

"Works for me and is cheap and I dont have to clean out my airbrush afterwards."

Ta for the advice big F. T'is much appreciated.

Karl

[David Hingtgen]

Halford's is always mentioned on the model airplane forums, but AFAIK there is no US equivalent. Of course we have many spray paints from various stores, but there's nothing we would praise/use like Halford's it seems.

[Guest Bromgrev]

In the absence of Halfords, I would imagine any water-based auto spray paint will do. As big F said, auto primers are great. Manufacturers can afford to spend a lot more on getting their primers just right. They're cheap, easy to sand, they cover well and you don't waste your airbrush life on them. And these days they come in a few shades other than 'grey primer'.

Just don't buy a solvent-based one - make sure you read what it says on the can!

P.S: Notice how I used 'auto' instead of 'car' for you guys in the states? Just call me multi-lingual.

[David Hingtgen]

Halfords is water-based? That could be the big difference. I don't know of any like that in the US. We basically have lacquer, and "very harsh" enamel for automotive sprays. (Much more "hot" than normal enamel like for modeling or house paint)

[big F]

In the absence of Halfords, I would imagine any water-based auto spray paint will do. As big F said, auto primers are great. Manufacturers can afford to spend a lot more on getting their primers just right. They're cheap, easy to sand, they cover well and you don't waste your airbrush life on them. And these days they come in a few shades other than 'grey primer'.

Just don't buy a solvent-based one - make sure you read what it says on the can!

P.S: Notice how I used 'auto' instead of 'car' for you guys in the states? Just call me multi-lingual. 

366653[/snapback]

Hey I aim to please.

I supose it comes from having worked for a U.S company and Having American Friends.

Eaither that or English is not so English anymore and should be renamed Ameriglish or somthing like that.

[big F]

Im sure that Halfords paints were different in the old days.

When I used to paint B.M.X frames in the time when Macross was new they were quite smelly and would melt plastic sheeting and styreene. I noticed a few years ago when I bought one for a touch up job on my car that they were completely different.

In sunlight the paint cured off really fast and if you got it right it looked like it was lacqured even when it wasnt. This conicided with the can lables being redisigned. Maybe this was the time they binned the older environment unfriendly paints of old. The new stuff dosnt make you cough and see flying trees and talking busses like the old stuff.

The lacquer still is not nice and you should still use a mask to be safe.

[Stamen0083]

I use Painter's Touch gray primer. It's also available in white, but I think the latter is more rare. In anycase, it lays down a very thin layer, covers everything, and is very smooth and forgiving of mistakes made when spraying.

Samples of my primed works can be seen here:

And:

[David Hingtgen]

That primer coat's smoother than a lot of my final finishes! --where do you get it? Craft stores, Wal-Mart, hardware stores?

Edited February 5, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[Gabe Q]

Hey, I use Painter's Touch primer, too! It's good stuff. It goes on real thin.

I buy mine at Home Depot. It's around $2.19 for a full size can. That's a price versus perforformance ratio you just can't beat.

[Stamen0083]

Home Depot. I've heard good things about Duplicolor primer too, which can be found at automotive stores, but I've been too busy enjoying the Painter's Touch to really bother trying it.

David, like I said, the primer is VERY forgiving when it comes to spraying techniques.

[Guest Bromgrev]

Halfords still carry the old solvent-based laquers, so you really do have to read what it says on the can. Water-based is becoming more and more common these days - it's safer, cleaner and less smelly.

I've heard (via honneamise in another thread) that Citadel Skull White or Chaos Black are good primers, silly names notwithstanding.

[big F]

Halfords still carry the old solvent-based laquers, so you really do have to read what it says on the can. Water-based is becoming more and more common these days - it's safer, cleaner and less smelly.

367625[/snapback]

Yeah they stink alright. Good finnish though providing all the dust and bugs in creation dont hear that your doing a paint job and come looking for you.

[jardann]

I have had good experiences with the Citadel primers. They leave a nice thin coat that doesn't obscure any detail(or flaw), and they are easy to use. The primer has a nice tooth to it too. Not too rough, but other paints adhere very nicely to it.

I might have to give the Painter's Touch a try though. That price point is very tempting and the citadel stuff is not so easy to find.

Edited February 7, 2006 by jardann

[David Hingtgen]

I've read good things about the Citadel spray primers, but the price is insane. Have yet to try then.

[Sar]

I've read good things about the Citadel spray primers, but the price is insane.  Have yet to try then.

368377[/snapback]

Myself I find GW's primer 'fairly good' - better than most auto primers, for instance - but still not fantastic. I'm another advocate of Halfords' acrylic primer, though. It's not so much that a good Halfords' primer finish is better than a good GW primer finish, just that I find it much easier to screw up with GW's. I don't know what it is about it, though.

(I've heard GW does a lot of manufacturing in the US for their US minis market, though, perhaps primer is another thing that varies in production between the US and the UK, where I am?)

[Less than Super Ostrich]

I tried Duplicolor and didn't get a good result. I may have put too much on.

[Awacs]

Ta for the suggestions and advice. I think I'll probably go with the Halfords acrylic primer on the grounds that it sounds like its less easy to get it wrong. Never worked on anything this size before - my largest custom to date has been a deluxe-size Zoid so I'm stepping into slightly new territory.

Ta folks, the advice is much appreciated.

Karl

[David Hingtgen]

Zoid? Which one? I don't customize them, but am fond of them.

[Awacs]

Done three so far. Two Command Wolves (a black "stealth" one with a replacement set of guns taken from a Blox, and a two-tone desert camo scheme one with a rotary cannon from a Gi Joe bootleg) and a desert camo-esque Godos with as set of back mounted cannons.

I've got a pair of Stealth Vipers and Shadow Foxes on my worktop at the moment that are awaiting customisation - I'm thinking of a red "European Fox" and a white/Black "Arctic Fox" scheme on the Shadow Foxes, and a desert cammo look for one of the Stealth Vipers. Not sure what to do on the other viper yet

Karl

[MechTech]

O.K., I don't know the name of it, but almost every major store carries it, Wallyworld, Advanced Auto parts and the like. Look for a can with a fan-spray nozzle. You'll know 'cause it doesn't have the "kite" on top of it AND there is a split near the top where you can see a thin metal rod going downward. That stuff sprays on very fine. I've even let it run and it smooths out! Ask around before the store employees ask why you're ripping the top off all the cans! Hope that helps!

[honneamise]

It has been already mentioned but I just have to recommend Citadel despite its price tag. This is the only stuff I know that allows you to get a white finish on a near black plastic without losing tiny details even if you need 5 or more coats.

This is a tiny 144th scale helicopter, it came in very dark green (see the rotors under the fuselage) and I needed it to be white.

The downside has been mentioned as well: shake it like hell, keep it warm and spray in little strokes while constantly moving the can alongside the part. And the ridiculous price, of course.

The most annoying thing is that Citadel had a light bluish grey in cans as well, it was called "space marines grey" (those Warhammer names are really funny). It was not even desgnated as "primer", but you could spray one single layer and had a perfect primed kit regardless of the base colour. They have discontinued it - this one was the best primer I ever used....

[Awacs]

They've discontinued Space Wolves Grey? That's a shame - I used to use that as a hand applied primer for my Heavy Gear minatures. Never considered trying to use it in an air-brush but it worked nicely hand applied.

Typical of GW - anxious to suck people in to their captive little market, but not always that useful to the more generalist tabletopper/model collector.

Karl

[big F]

Well the trouble is the bean counters dont see it as " maybe we should keep this range" they see " it dosent pay us to make this colour, and how many different grey paints do these kids need"

The problem is as always the good stuff never lasts, be it money, beer, women, or paint

Edited February 13, 2006 by big F

[Sar]

They've discontinued Space Wolves Grey? That's a shame - I used to use that as a hand applied primer for my Heavy Gear minatures.

369895[/snapback]

They've discontinued the aerosol, you can still buy the pots of paint - the guy in my local GW suggested that he'd had more questions about where Space Wolf Grey spray cans went than any other product, recently.

On the plus side, they've brought in an 'Ogre Flesh' spray, which is a nice dusty brown, which I now use for my Heavy Gear miniatures. ;-)

(If anyone works out how to get GW acrylics through an airbrush without them gunking up, by the way, I'm really interested to know...)

[Stamen0083]

It has been already mentioned but I just have to recommend Citadel despite its price tag. This is the only stuff I know that allows you to get a white finish on a near black plastic without losing tiny details even if you need 5 or more coats.

This is a tiny 144th scale helicopter, it came in very dark green (see the rotors under the fuselage) and I needed it to be white.

Painter's Choice white primer is very opaque as well, and it sounds like it's much less temperamental (and much less expensive?) than the Citadel stuff, plus it's so thin that even pooling won't eliminate much details. I've tried to use the primer as a surface scratch filler, but it has NEVER worked that way for me. The tiniest scratch shows up.

[David Hingtgen]

Is painter's choice matte, semi, or gloss?

(A good gloss white is also on my list, as I like airliners even more than military jets---but airliners are typically the bane of model painting--gloss white and pristine polished metal with long, straight decal stripes that'll show the slightest mis-alignment)

[Stamen0083]

The primer is flat, but I think a gloss white spray is available too. I never tried using it as paint before. I might give it a shot. The basic colors would definitely be cheaper than Tamiya sprays.

[MechTech]

honneamise, thanks for the clue. I think my local shop has that stuff. I have that same kit and it's awesome for it's size. I'm totally modifying it though. I'm making it into something more "Macrossy" to go on the Daedalus. These are BERP blades on the rotor head...

[Less than Super Ostrich]

Has anyone heard of heating their spray cans up before you prime? I hear this is a good thing to make them spray well... particularly if they are stored in a cool place (in my case my basement/hobby area is very cool).

[big F]

Has anyone heard of heating their spray cans up before you prime? I hear this is a good thing to make them spray well... particularly if they are stored in a cool place (in my case my basement/hobby area is very cool).

371223[/snapback]

Yes that makes sence. If you lightly heat your model parts before painting this can also help. In the past I have done both and it works. In the summer time just leaving the parts in the sun before painting helps it works better for darker parts obviously. You can put the cans in the Laundry cupboard or somewhere near to your hot water boiler for sometime before use is just enough to warm it safely. You can also put the can into a bowl of warm water as well as this will warm it just keep the spray nozzel end out of the water.

[David Hingtgen]

I usually just leave them by the window with the sun beaming through--never went as far as the actual "sitting in a tray of hot water" bit. I think the main effect is to have it atomize better.

[big F]

I usually just leave them by the window with the sun beaming through--never went as far as the actual "sitting in a tray of hot water" bit.  I think the main effect is to have it atomize better.

371255[/snapback]

I wouldnt say hot water just luke warm. You dont want to pop the cans, how many of us as kids put spray cans in fires to see what happens. Yes the idea is to help with atomization of the paint.

Warming the parts to be painted is to help with the setting of the paint. Its a method used in the Automotive industry. The window sill method works well on a sunny day just takes a bit of time to get them up to temp.

Edited March 9, 2006 by big F

[Kelsain]

Err, do you guys mean "Painter's Choice" or "Painter's Touch?" I was also in the market for some new primer, so I stopped by Home Dept. All they had was Rustoleum brand called "Painter's Touch." Do I need to go to Lowe's?

Edited March 8, 2006 by Kelsain