Zinjo Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 It's about relativity my friend, and a dictionary isn't necessary for that. From the human's point of view, they killed justly to defend their planet and the fate of mankind, as the invading forces were unjustly murderous and intended to destroy the human race. From the alien's point of view, humans were just as dangerous to their existence and the following assault against Earth was to keep mankind from being a mortal threat to them. Each side could cry self-defense and justful killing on their part, and cry murderous intent on the part of their opponent. 366936[/snapback] True enough. The humans posessed the "lost" "Reaction" weaponry and when their culture began to infect the troops, Bodolza determined they were an immediate threat to the security of the Zentreadi people... Quote
Agent ONE Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 If Agent One really hates Macross 7 so much, we should put him up against Keith. ... 367289[/snapback] Lets do it! Quote
JB0 Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 If Misa wasn't so stubborn and didn't get herself and her escorts captured... WTF? How the HELL is the recon pilot flying into an asteroid classified as "Misa being stubborn"? The stubbonr one in that scene was Hikaru, who disobeyed direct orders to abandon her and got himself and Kakizaki captured in the process. ... Hikaru disobeyed orders to abandon Misa a lot, come to think of it. Quote
Zinjo Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 If Agent One really hates Macross 7 so much, we should put him up against Keith. ... 367289[/snapback] Lets do it! 367419[/snapback] LOL, I'll sell the tickets... Quote
Agent ONE Posted February 7, 2006 Posted February 7, 2006 If Agent One really hates Macross 7 so much, we should put him up against Keith. ... 367289[/snapback] Lets do it! 367419[/snapback] LOL, I'll sell the tickets... 367436[/snapback] Other than Mike Tyson, I think I could stand toe to toe to just about anyone. Besides Kieth is a girl so I think I will have sex with her instead, you guys can watch though. I pork good with an audience. Quote
SpacyAce2012 Posted February 7, 2006 Posted February 7, 2006 If Agent One really hates Macross 7 so much, we should put him up against Keith. ... 367289[/snapback] Lets do it! 367419[/snapback] LOL, I'll sell the tickets... 367436[/snapback] Other than Mike Tyson, I think I could stand toe to toe to just about anyone. Besides Kieth is a girl so I think I will have sex with her instead, you guys can watch though. I pork good with an audience. 367524[/snapback] You are something else, you know that? Quote
azrael Posted February 7, 2006 Posted February 7, 2006 You wanna rape/abuse/torture or even mention it, you it do it anywhere but here. Now shoo. Let's keep this on-topic now.... Quote
Agent ONE Posted February 7, 2006 Posted February 7, 2006 You wanna rape/abuse/torture or even mention it, you it do it anywhere but here. Now shoo. Let's keep this on-topic now.... 367557[/snapback] Is that from a song? it made no sense. Quote
Mechamaniac Posted February 7, 2006 Posted February 7, 2006 You wanna rape/abuse/torture or even mention it, you it do it anywhere but here. Now shoo. Let's keep this on-topic now.... 367557[/snapback] Is that from a song? it made no sense. 367664[/snapback] It means, stop teabagging this thread. Between the rhetorical blah blah murder vs. killing blah blah posts, and your nuts bouncing around (or being carried by others) on every page, this thread is nearing complete incomprehensiblity. Quote
Agent ONE Posted February 7, 2006 Posted February 7, 2006 You wanna rape/abuse/torture or even mention it, you it do it anywhere but here. Now shoo. Let's keep this on-topic now.... 367557[/snapback] Is that from a song? it made no sense. 367664[/snapback] It means, stop teabagging this thread. Between the rhetorical blah blah murder vs. killing blah blah posts, and your nuts bouncing around (or being carried by others) on every page, this thread is nearing complete incomprehensiblity. 367689[/snapback] Oh. Quote
Sundown Posted February 9, 2006 Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) Relativity people, relativity. What works for me, may not work for you, or Hurin, or the drunk and sorry guilt-riddled soldiers in the Veteran's hospital and vice versa. So......you don't think it's criminal to take a life? Wow. Society should really fear people that could be so ready to claim the life of another, for whatever reason. TAKING LIFE IS TAKING LIFE, NO MATTER WHAT THE JUSTIFICATION OR THE CIRCUMSTANCES BEHIND IT... 367234[/snapback] I just have to observe one thing although I understand that myk might be done with the discussion already. Here we're talking about everything being "relative"-- what's "true for you is true for you"-- according to the postmodern world view. Yet in the next sentence, we seem aghast someone might not consider it "criminal" to take life. I see a bit of a contradiction there. If we were real moral relativists, there wouldn't be such a thing as "criminal", since we would understand that "criminal" is largely a subjective notion. So it seems to me that myk here isn't really espousing moral relativity. He just has a different understanding of what constitutes wrongful taking of life. To him, it is all wrong, and he is actually making a morally objective claim here. Moral relativity is cited only to explain for the sentiments of those who would disagree and who have come to terms with the loss of their loved ones in war, but here, the same isn't applied to the view that all killing is wrong. To a real relativist, taking a life is neither wrong nor right. No more than ham sandwiches are a wrong or a right. But when it comes down to it, I don't think real relativists exist, except maybe for a few sociopathic serial killers. "TAKING LIFE IS TAKING LIFE, NO MATTER WHAT THE JUSTIFICATION OR THE CIRCUMSTANCES BEHIND IT" is actually about as morally absolute a statement one can make. It implies that taking life is wrong. A moral relativist would actually claim that there IS proper justification for taking life in ANY circumstance, or perhaps, no justification is even needed. And the proper response to that would be, "Yep. So go ahead. Kill if it works for you." Yeah, I'm not comfortable with that either. Edited February 9, 2006 by Sundown Quote
Agent ONE Posted February 9, 2006 Posted February 9, 2006 If Agent One really hates Macross 7 so much, we should put him up against Keith. ... 367289[/snapback] Lets do it! 367419[/snapback] LOL, I'll sell the tickets... 367436[/snapback] Other than Mike Tyson, I think I could stand toe to toe to just about anyone. Besides Kieth is a girl so I think I will have sex with her instead, you guys can watch though. I pork good with an audience. 367524[/snapback] You are something else, you know that? 367540[/snapback] I'm just like Jesus... just without all that 'nice guy' crap. Quote
Godzilla Posted February 9, 2006 Posted February 9, 2006 To me, the heroes where those stood up to Gorg Bodolzaa and his fleet. Whether they died or lived, fought or support, it doesnt matter. -Minmay and Kaifun contributed to the Culture shock. -Zentradi defectors with their fleet. -50,000 civilians of Macross City that supported the troops and show culture to the Zentradi. -Max, Millia, Hikaru, and countless CF pilots who lived and died in defending Earth. -People of Earth whether soldier or civilian, it is the reason why to defend. Gorg Bodolzaa was viewed as the evil in the show. He would do what it would take to achieve his goals including killing his own people. Whether it was to keep his power, capture the SDF-1, or his fears of protoculture spreading, the end goal was the same nonetheless. Regardless, attacking a weaker group without provocation is wrong. Now what's provocation? (We can debate this till the cows come home... )Provocation can be either covert, overt, subtle, etc. For this topic, it was Gorg Bodolzaa and his zentradi fleet. He was going to wipe out the Human race. If I were one of the countless people in the world of the Macross storyline, I would be this, "If we are to die, so be it. But by God I am taking as many of those bastards with me" mentality. I will not certainly cower in a corner and wait for death. Off-topic: As for the moral dilemas of "killing", Yes murder is murder if you take a such a simplistic view. Since when does the world operate in such a simplistic concept? If that reasoning stands, then every soldier, cop, law enforcement, and people who killed in defense of themselves and/or their family/loved ones should be convicted and sentenced to death which is completely utter lunacy. Also, If you want to stand on morality, go ahead but if you do so, you better practice what you preach... If you believe any killing is murder, just dont go say you'd wipe everyone out and then say any killing is just plain murder. Quote
Agent-GHQ Posted February 28, 2006 Author Posted February 28, 2006 Now this is a well thought answer and the moral issue too. Definitely, will impress the English instructors. To me, the heroes where those stood up to Gorg Bodolzaa and his fleet. Whether they died or lived, fought or support, it doesnt matter. -Minmay and Kaifun contributed to the Culture shock. -Zentradi defectors with their fleet. -50,000 civilians of Macross City that supported the troops and show culture to the Zentradi. -Max, Millia, Hikaru, and countless CF pilots who lived and died in defending Earth. -People of Earth whether soldier or civilian, it is the reason why to defend. Gorg Bodolzaa was viewed as the evil in the show. He would do what it would take to achieve his goals including killing his own people. Whether it was to keep his power, capture the SDF-1, or his fears of protoculture spreading, the end goal was the same nonetheless. Regardless, attacking a weaker group without provocation is wrong. Now what's provocation? (We can debate this till the cows come home... )Provocation can be either covert, overt, subtle, etc. For this topic, it was Gorg Bodolzaa and his zentradi fleet. He was going to wipe out the Human race. If I were one of the countless people in the world of the Macross storyline, I would be this, "If we are to die, so be it. But by God I am taking as many of those bastards with me" mentality. I will not certainly cower in a corner and wait for death. Off-topic: As for the moral dilemas of "killing", Yes murder is murder if you take a such a simplistic view. Since when does the world operate in such a simplistic concept? If that reasoning stands, then every soldier, cop, law enforcement, and people who killed in defense of themselves and/or their family/loved ones should be convicted and sentenced to death which is completely utter lunacy. Also, If you want to stand on morality, go ahead but if you do so, you better practice what you preach... If you believe any killing is murder, just dont go say you'd wipe everyone out and then say any killing is just plain murder. 368625[/snapback] Quote
big F Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 What about the ordianry folk for putting buildings back up and repairing vending machines, that were constantly smashed up by the battles inside the city area on the SDF1, you never heard them complain. Also the Techies who had to fix Valks all the time when they got busted going toe to toe with the Zentran masses Quote
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) Yeah but anyone can do that. Even non-heroic peeps. You could even say the three spies were heroes for sneaking onto the sdf1 and defecting from kamjin and helping all there friends to sample culture. But hero to me is the person who will stand up to the opposition even though odds weigh against them and chances of success is very slim, but stil managing to succeed whilst making it look easy to the rest of people. (ie sporting stars for example that become the model for all the average people) Not to disrespect the robot janitor that swept up the mess on the sdf1 and keeping it clean of the contruction workers or repair crew or anything.. A good example of hero is the 'underdog' Rocky in the rocky movies. The chance of him actually beating the champ are slim but so long as he trains his ass off maybe he can get his 15 mins of fame. Of course given that the champ treats him non-seriously (like the zentradi ignoring the threat of culture at first) chances of the underdog actually winning go up. But he is a hero for beating the odds. So in a way he gives hope to the average people that maybe they could be like thier hero if they idolise him. Edited March 1, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker Quote
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