Star Wars Empire At War

[Ladic]

The demo was released a couple of days ago, has anyone played it yet or plan on playing it?

I tried the tutorial, and it seems like a cross between Masters of Orion and Starcraft, but made much simpler.

[Mr March]

Isn't it funny how stuff just works itself out. I haven't been following anything on any Star Wars game and haven't touched the franchise since Jedi Academy. Then out of nowhere, I visit Gamespot just the other day and decide to look up some SW games. I looked up this very game and watched all the trailers.

I must say it looks rather interesting, but the implementation is what will make or break this title. I'm in the process of downloading the demo, so we'll see if it distinguishes itself or if it turns out to be an utter failure like Rebellion.

[bsu legato]

Its made by the original crew that made Command & Conquer. I'm not a big RTS fan, that alone is a good enough pedigree for me.

[GreenGuy42]

I've played the tutorial so far. Yea, it's really simple, but so far, I like it.

[CoryHolmes]

if it turns out to be an utter failure like Rebellion.

362656[/snapback]

Hey. Rebellion wasn't *that* bad. Sure, it tried to take on more than it can chew, but that didn't make it a bad game.

[mikeszekely]

I couldn't get the demo download to finish. It'd start, then drop the 18mb/s, then just quit. I guess I'll wait awhile, and then try bittorrent. I'm not a big RTS fan, but the game looks kinda interesting.

[Cyclone]

I ended up doing the same, download speed from site sucked, switched to a torrent and got it.

The ground combat is fairly mundane for a RTS, defender can build forces, attack can call them down from control points (you/rebels in the demo) but space combat is what really appeals to me, the ability to target components in real time and the fact it looks/feels like Star Wars combat. Cinematic view is rather worthless though, one minute your watching your X-wings and frigates in combat, the next the view swings right past them to stare at some asteroids for twice as long as it looks at anything else. sigh.

[Ladic]

yeah, i Think the spacebattles are the best thing I could see from the demo.

[Sdf-1]

I'm not really a rts person, but this seemed to be quite fun to play though. But if it wasn't Star Wars theme, I wouldn't play it much.

Edited January 22, 2006 by Sdf-1

[Lynx7725]

if it turns out to be an utter failure like Rebellion.

362656[/snapback]

Hey. Rebellion wasn't *that* bad. Sure, it tried to take on more than it can chew, but that didn't make it a bad game.

362682[/snapback]

Hmm, I happened to have been playing Rebellion a few weeks ago. What exactly is wrong with it? I quite enjoyed it, though crushing the Rebellion, even on a small map, took a hideous amount of time.

[Southpaw Samurai]

Yes, Rebellion did a LOT of things right. The whole 'might vs. subterfuge' thing was dead on and provided much entertainment on both sides (as Lynx said, finding and completely crushing the Rebels was as hard as getting rid of all the cockroaches in a building). The big problems with Rebellion is that too much of the interface was a hassle to deal with, the 'manual' space combat was almost worthless, and the game walked too close to the center line between dry strategy game and energetic real time stuff that it made neither side happy.

I've been playing Empire at War with some of the mods that open the universe up and allow you to play as the Empire too (you just can't use heroes as they crash the game and sometimes space stations become invisible, invincible objects). I'm not much for your RTS genre (I don't mind real time and I love strategy, but the whole C&C, Warcraft thing has gone cold on me), but I've been enjoying this to some extent. Ground combat still seems too high-speed-click-fest-C&C-ish to me and space combat almost seems to the same mass firepower over tactical decision mentality I hate in these games, but it's still very enjoyable to watch the fleets fight.

What would be sort of cool would be to have the depth Rebellion gave on its strategy map with EAW's tactical battles (maybe slowed down to a more Total War speed).

[Ladic]

Yes, Rebellion did a LOT of things right. The whole 'might vs. subterfuge' thing was dead on and provided much entertainment on both sides (as Lynx said, finding and completely crushing the Rebels was as hard as getting rid of all the cockroaches in a building). The big problems with Rebellion is that too much of the interface was a hassle to deal with, the 'manual' space combat was almost worthless, and the game walked too close to the center line between dry strategy game and energetic real time stuff that it made neither side happy.

I've been playing Empire at War with some of the mods that open the universe up and allow you to play as the Empire too (you just can't use heroes as they crash the game and sometimes space stations become invisible, invincible objects). I'm not much for your RTS genre (I don't mind real time and I love strategy, but the whole C&C, Warcraft thing has gone cold on me), but I've been enjoying this to some extent. Ground combat still seems too high-speed-click-fest-C&C-ish to me and space combat almost seems to the same mass firepower over tactical decision mentality I hate in these games, but it's still very enjoyable to watch the fleets fight.

What would be sort of cool would be to have the depth Rebellion gave on its strategy map with EAW's tactical battles (maybe slowed down to a more Total War speed).

363280[/snapback]

hey man, where can I find those mods?

[Zor Primus]

I am a fan of the C&C RTS so this rts for Star Wars looks like it will supercede the predessors like Force Commander and that other one that was like Age of Empires meets Star Wars.

[buffalobob77]

I too am a big fan of Rebellion. Why? Because you had the ability to name the ships in your fleet. Kinda a dumb reason but it all seemed so much more dire when the you had a ship named after your first pet of something. "Oh my god they blew up Mr. Snuggles. NOOOO!"

Anyway maybe I'll check this out.

[Mr March]

if it turns out to be an utter failure like Rebellion.

362656[/snapback]

Hey. Rebellion wasn't *that* bad. Sure, it tried to take on more than it can chew, but that didn't make it a bad game.

362682[/snapback]

IMO, Rebellion was THAT bad and worse. But if you like it, that's all that matters.

[Mr March]

*snip*

Hmm, I happened to have been playing Rebellion a few weeks ago. What exactly is wrong with it? I quite enjoyed it, though crushing the Rebellion, even on a small map, took a hideous amount of time.

362999[/snapback]

Rebellion's attempt at 3D combat was extremely inefficient and cumbersome, easily frustrating the player. Speaking of cumbersome, the sheer number of menus and submenus needed to access all the commands of the game was atrocious. Micromanagement was taken to a whole new level in Rebellion, slowing a game which was supposed to be a hybrid of real time and turn based. The time bar was a silly concept, since most players are apt to simply slow time whenever an event occurs and then turn the time back up after it's done. Might as well make the game turn based at this point. Another problem I had was the useless heroes (force users apparently lacking any significant advantage over non-force users) and the excrutiatingly long travel times between star systems. How could the Millenium Falcon be on the other side of the galaxy by now with the turtle-paced travel system used in Rebellion?

I will say this for Rebellion, it had fantastic cut-scenes. Too bad they tried to sell a game along with the cool videos.

[Southpaw Samurai]

hey man, where can I find those mods?

363310[/snapback]

There's a couple of mod authors out there. It seems like Bryant Malaski's is the best one from my experience. You can get it from Empires At War Demo Mod - Bryant's Mod 2.0

It's not perfect...as one can expect a mod that tries to unlock every little thing the demo software has available to unlock, but it does give you a nice feel for some of the heroes available (even if some crash the system) and for how both sides play.

[CoryHolmes]

and the excrutiatingly long travel times between star systems.  How could the Millenium Falcon be on the other side of the galaxy by now with the turtle-paced travel system used in Rebellion?

363389[/snapback]

That's something I enjoyed. The fact that you could make all the cool plans that you wanted, but in the end the other guy had to be where and when you wanted him to be, otherwise you were screwed.

[Mr March]

Just finished playing the demo. I have to say I'm a little disappointed.

The interface feels too simplified. It is a real time strategy game and I expected a lot of the conventional controls common to Command&Conquer and Warcraft. But, it's almost as if the game control is regressing rather than progressing, becoming more simplified without adding any innovation or enhanced control.

Another point that's bothering me is the 2D plane for space combat. I mean, how many years has it been since true 3D space simulators and games like Homeworld have been released? Is this really the best that can be done...space warfare that's simply 3D rendered ships on a plane of 2D transparent terrain? I can't help feeling cheated.

I'm not all that motivated to purchase the full game. It's undeniably Star Wars and the action sure is fun, but the game engine and the game world sure is a major let down for a 3D game.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Mr March

[Southpaw Samurai]

Actually, if you listen to most designers and they're not just feeing you b.s. so that they can get their products shipped on time, many designs ARE backstepping and simplifying games...the logic being that people prefer simplicity...particularly now that every person on the planet and their grandma plays games. Computer games are no longer the domain of war/board gamers, computer geeks, twitch freaks, and their ilk. I agree with you...it's getting sickening how games now seem to come down to 'click left button to kill, click right to kill faster...everything else is abstracted'.

The 2-D space battles are along those same lines....but to include the 'complication' of a third dimension, you'd have to slow the pace down to a Homeworld or Total War pace and most RTS designers believe that high speed is the way to go. It would actually be cool to have 3D space just for the rebels 'hit'n'run' and sneaking tactics.

Still, aside from certain particular moments (like ESB's 'Well, we can still outmaneuver them' scene), most of the Star Wars space battles DID take place on a relatively 2D plane, so it almost feels kinda fitting.

I have to agree, though....the 'Star Warsiness' of it makes me interested, but little else is really calling out to me. The interface is simplistic and the pacing seems too frentic.

What I wouldn't give for a Rebellion (or better) strategy-level (probably turn based, since as people pointed out, everyone basically played Rebellion in a more or less turn based fashion anyway), mixed with Homeworld-esque tactical space combat and something along the lines of a Total Wars tactical ground combat (although allowing for better use of subterfuge and guerrilla tactics) hybrid. Of course, only me and four others would buy it, but that's beside the point.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Southpaw Samurai

[bsu legato]

Another point that's bothering me is the 2D plane for space combat.

363545[/snapback]

Whaaaa? Ok, they just lost me right there. Worse yet, I can't even complain about this being a "dumbed down console port" since it's PC only. No, this is just "dumbed down" period.

[Mr March]

Actually, if you listen to most designers and they're not just feeing you b.s. so that they can get their products shipped on time, many designs ARE backstepping and simplifying games...the logic being that people prefer simplicity...particularly now that every person on the planet and their grandma plays games. Computer games are no longer the domain of war/board gamers, computer geeks, twitch freaks, and their ilk. I agree with you...it's getting sickening how games now seem to come down to 'click left button to kill, click right to kill faster...everything else is abstracted'.

363617[/snapback]

We have Deer Hunter to thank for that. Worst thing to ever happen to PC gaming. The downward spiral pretty much started there.

I suppose it's not terribly tragic news. I'm not nearly the hardcore gamer I once was, so I guess I don't really have room to complain since I'm simply not the one buying all that many games. But I'll still purchase a few every year, like Half-Life 2 and what not. I'd just like to see some more innovation. This new Star Wars game doesn't even compare all that well to titles released 4-5 years ago.

[Mr March]

*snip* 

Still, aside from certain particular moments (like ESB's 'Well, we can still outmaneuver them' scene), most of the Star Wars space battles DID take place on a relatively 2D plane, so it almost feels kinda fitting.

363617[/snapback]

Actually, Star Wars space battles as they appear in the films are deceptive that way. The reason some people might mistake them for a 2D conflict is due to the horizontal orientation of the capital ships. However, the actual space battles in Star Wars have always featured fleets fighting in a sphere, with ships above and below. The Battle of Endor in The Empire Strikes Back had all the Star Destroyers formed in a sphere which stayed that way during the fight and the Battle of Coruscant in Revenge of the Sith was a brawl of capital ships all around each other.

The Star Wars battles do fight in 3D, but Capital Ships are rarely seen travelling vertically unless they are hit by Ion Cannons (ESB), crash (ROTJ), or fall into the atmosphere (ROTS)

[Boxer]

Hmn...

I saw the Empire at war demo a few days ago and it looks kinda interesting. From the videos I watched I wasn't too impressed about combat though... looks almost like a cross between C&C and Dawn of War.

I'd still like to get my hands on a demo to see how it plays out. I just hope the in-game text is as witty as the unit comments on the preview site. Those in themselves are hilarious to read.

...and is it just me or do the rebels get an independant han solo clone under another name? (Even though han and chewie are still units ingame apparently).

I also wonder if we'll see some clonewars units in there. I thought I saw an ep2 assault ship in one of the fleet screens.

In reguards to Rebellion, count me as another one who liked the game, but I agree that the 3-d strategy was a flop. If they could have moved it closer to a homeworld or homeworld 2 system then maybe it wouldn't have been so much of a disaster, but as it was the only things I liked about space combat were the fighter sprites and the ominous death star (Blow up the moncals!)

Rebellion does have the potential to be a great game if they went back and refined some things. For example, setting ships to explore on their own would be a plus instead of having to manually send them to new places. The manager was just annoying, and keeping tabs on maintenance was bad. Also the tendancy for your advisor to stuff your planets full of mines was annoying.

That said, Rebellion was enjoyable for a while. I can only wonder if Empire will fill the niche for the 'universe conquerer of the year' slot.

[Mr March]

Another point that's bothering me is the 2D plane for space combat.

363545[/snapback]

Whaaaa? Ok, they just lost me right there. Worse yet, I can't even complain about this being a "dumbed down console port" since it's PC only. No, this is just "dumbed down" period.

363624[/snapback]

Yeah, I just can't get past that. It's too backward. If I wanted to play a board game, I'd stick with my 2D games. This is supposed to be 3D gaming. What good is all the 3D graphics if they are only used as window dressing?

[CoryHolmes]

but as it was the only things I liked about space combat were the fighter sprites and the ominous death star (Blow up the moncals!)

363698[/snapback]

No, no, no. Use the Death Star to take out the Rebels' CC7700 so you can retreat if you have to. THEN take out the MonCals

[Southpaw Samurai]

but as it was the only things I liked about space combat were the fighter sprites and the ominous death star (Blow up the moncals!)

363698[/snapback]

No, no, no. Use the Death Star to take out the Rebels' CC7700 so you can retreat if you have to. THEN take out the MonCals

364212[/snapback]

Retreat? In your moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances!

Sorry...had to.....

[CoryHolmes]

Retreat? In your moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances!

Sorry...had to.....

364419[/snapback]

Your overconfidence will be your undoing.

Take that

[buddhafabio]

i got the demo i am still looking forward to the game,

though i found the planet to planet controls a bit confusing.

[Southpaw Samurai]

Full game will be out in a couple of weeks, but for those who are still having fun with an 'expanded' version of the demo...

Most recent (2.6) update for Bryant & GreyGhost's EAW Demo Mod