Pc Problem

[mikeszekely]

Over the summer, I decided to go from using a 17" 4:3 LCD (1024x768) monitor to a 52" 16:9 (1168x648). I'd updated my video card's drivers and got Windows displayed properly. I don't play much in the way of PC games, but I enjoy Neverwinter Nights, which I'd kept up to date with patches. NWN displays fine. But I've found that some of my other games aren't. I tried Need for Speed Underground as a test, and it displays okay in 800x600, but in 1024x768 mode, it gives me this weird affect where it looks like an image is rendered over top a duplictate image. No matter what settings I use, Starfleet Commander III does the same thing. Any ideas?

Edited January 16, 2006 by mikeszekely

[JB0]

If I had to guess, I'd say they don't like the funky resolutions needed for a 16*9 aspect ratio.

Just an offhand guess, though.

[mikeszekely]

Well, I figure that NFS works in 800x600, since both numbers are lower than the resolution (I have it configured so that it letterboxes software using a lower resolution). I guess it doesn't like SFCIII because it uses a default 1024x768 resolution, and 768 exceeds 720 (1168x648 is 1280x720 with overscan compensation).

Perhaps if I up the resolution more?

EDIT: Nope, didn't work.

Edited January 16, 2006 by mikeszekely

[wolfx]

Can it be something wrong with your anti-aliasing? Maybe turn it on and off? What's your graphics card btw?

[Gaijin]

I'm not PC savvy but I do know that HDTV monitors used as PC displays sometimes run into problems because they usually only accept certain resolutions through VGA or DVI from a PC (maybe you're using DVI to HDMI which poses a problem that some people have).

I couldn't tell you exactly why though.

Edited January 16, 2006 by Gaijin

[F360°]

What Video card are you using?

What is your current desktop resolution?

Are you displaying at "fit to screen" or "1:1 ratios" image/video?

When you're running NFS at 800x600 in full screen do you have 2 black bars on the left and right of yout 16:9 display? because 800x600 is 4:3, if you don't see black bars then you are stretching the image/video to fit on your 16:9.

Maybe the problem is just your game. perhap it don't truely support 16:9 game play. if it does , it should have a 16:9 resoluton. all the resolution that you told us are all 4:3. Try looking at the latest patch for enableing 16:9 resolution for your games in question.

[Dangaioh]

What's the curent frequency of your TV, most computer monitors are about 85hz and above depending on card and monitor.

To check frequency.

1: Right click on your desktop

2: Select Properties

3: Click last tab labeled: "Settings"

4: Click the "Advance" button

5: Click the tab labeled: "Monitor"

6: Check mark the box "Hide modes that this monitor cannot display"

7: From the pulldown list, choose the highest frequency

You will have to do this everytime you change monitor and screen size.

Games, Movies and other viewable media type may not work correctly at lower frequencies.

Try to get 85hz and above, when you change monitor and resolutions.

Edited January 16, 2006 by Dangaioh

[mikeszekely]

Can it be something wrong with your anti-aliasing? Maybe turn it on and off?

I tried turning it off, and I tried leaving it application controlled. No dice.

What Video card are you using?

*looks embarrassed* nVidia GeForce MX 440. But I plan to upgrade once I see some system requirements for Neverwinter Nights 2!

Are you displaying at "fit to screen" or "1:1 ratios" image/video?

I had it set to scaled, which allows the vertical to run top to bottom but keeps the horizontal scaled. So, I was getting the black bars on the side...

...then I came up with the brilliant idea that I should check to see if there were udpated drivers. And there were! I went from 78 to 81... and not only did it not solve the problem or seem to have any added features from the previous driver, the option to dictated how games that don't support my desktop resolution were handled is gone. Everything is stretched now, whether I like it or not.

What is your current desktop resolution?

As previously mentioned, 1168x648, which is 1280x720 with overscan compensation.

What's the curent frequency of your TV,

60hz. It's the only available option. Everything non-game piece of software I've run, every piece of media I've played, all work fine. Neverwinter Nights works fine. The Game of Life, when my wife tried it, worked fine. NFSU worked fine at 800x600. Starfleet Command III is the only thing I can't get to run properly at all.

I'm not PC savvy but I do know that HDTV monitors used as PC displays sometimes run into problems because they usually only accept certain resolutions through VGA or DVI from a PC (maybe you're using DVI to HDMI which poses a problem that some people have).

Could be, although every other resolution I've tried displayed okay, if you take "chunk of desktop offscreen" to be okay for some of the 4:3 resolutions.

I eventually gave up last night, and decided that screw it, I'd just try SFCIII on my laptop. Installed and patched okay, displayed fine, navigated through all the menus okay, but then whenever I actually tried to start a mission, I got an "unhandled exception error" and the game shut down. So I'm 0 for 2 now...

[Duke Togo]

The answer is very simple:

There are games out there that simply don't support 16:9 screens and resolutions. Yes, even some of the newer games. As ar as I know, there is no fix for this.

Also, you'll find games that don't support dual core processors (though there is an easy work around for this) and SLI setups.

[buddhafabio]

starfleet command 3 was a quite buggy game so i ask "did you install the patches for it?"

[JsARCLIGHT]

The answer is very simple:

There are games out there that simply don't support 16:9 screens and resolutions. Yes, even some of the newer games. As ar as I know, there is no fix for this.

360997[/snapback]

Duke is 100% right.

I have a widescreen PC monitor and it pains me that only about half the games out right now are widescreen compatible. I've had to tinker with a lot of games (editing config files, pirate patching, etc.) to even get them to run in "fake" widescreen modes. Notable games that did not come with built in widescreen that made me mad are FEAR, Pirates!, Kotor 2, GUN, the list goes on and on for me.

I've also discovered that a lot of games do not like "strange" resolutions outside of the very common "prime operating resolutions" that most common monitors recommend. I've seen everything from screen distortion (most common) to total graphical bugouts.

[mikeszekely]

starfleet command 3 was a quite buggy game  so i ask "did you install the patches for it?"

361006[/snapback]

Yeah, the Beta patch, on both systems. Display problems aside, the game runs on this PC. On the laptop, though, everything seems okay until you finish the mission briefing and it actually goes into the gameplay mode, then an "unhandled exception error" pops up and the game crashes.

If either your or JsARCLIGHT know of any other less-than-official patches or tweaks, if not for the widescreen display than at least for my laptop, feel free to pass them along.

At the moment, I can't recall the video card in the laptop. I do know it's a 2.4GHz Celeron processor, with 512mb of RAM. And I do remember that the videocard is one of the ATI setups with no onboard memory. Instead, it uses 64mb of my system memory, leaving me with 448 for everything else.

[mikeszekely]

The answer is very simple:

There are games out there that simply don't support 16:9 screens and resolutions. Yes, even some of the newer games. As ar as I know, there is no fix for this.

360997[/snapback]

Duke is 100% right.

I have a widescreen PC monitor and it pains me that only about half the games out right now are widescreen compatible. I've had to tinker with a lot of games (editing config files, pirate patching, etc.) to even get them to run in "fake" widescreen modes. Notable games that did not come with built in widescreen that made me mad are FEAR, Pirates!, Kotor 2, GUN, the list goes on and on for me.

I've also discovered that a lot of games do not like "strange" resolutions outside of the very common "prime operating resolutions" that most common monitors recommend. I've seen everything from screen distortion (most common) to total graphical bugouts.

361034[/snapback]

Bah!

This is, I think, one of the reasons why I've been a console gamer, limiting my PC games to a choice few.

[JsARCLIGHT]

PC Games are finiky... it's the nature of the beast.

But there ARE workarounds for almost every widescreen problem I've ever encountered in the PC world. Have you tried poking around on Widescreen Gaming?

Every widescreen issue I've had has had a workaround on there... sometimes the workarounds are not all that special but in the cases of FEAR and Kotor 2 they made the game much more enjoyable... too bad GUN still looks like ass on my system, not my system's fault but rather that of lazy programmers.

[mikeszekely]

PC Games are finiky... it's the nature of the beast.

But there ARE workarounds for almost every widescreen problem I've ever encountered in the PC world. Have you tried poking around on Widescreen Gaming?

Every widescreen issue I've had has had a workaround on there... sometimes the workarounds are not all that special but in the cases of FEAR and Kotor 2 they made the game much more enjoyable... too bad GUN still looks like ass on my system, not my system's fault but rather that of lazy programmers.

361045[/snapback]

That's for the tip. I didn't see anything, but I'll register and ask there.

One thing I did notice is that they mention that a lot of widescreen displays specifically for PC are 16:10 rather than 16:9. Whenever I try a 16:10 resolution like 1680x1050, which seems to be common there, I get the same double-image problem I had in-game.

In other words

1168x648 = good.

1200x900 = no good

1280x720 = good

1280x800 = no good

1440x900 = no good

1600x900 = no good

1680x1050 = no good

1768x992 = good

1920x1080 = good

Conclusion: games the support widescreen resolutions display fine. Games that only support fullscreen resolutions work at 800x600, but no higher, reguardless of stretching or centering the display.

Edited January 17, 2006 by mikeszekely

[JsARCLIGHT]

A big reason many widescreen PC games are 16:10 is because the most popular PC widescreen monitors (that are not double duty HDTV's) are that aspect ratio. In my limited experience it's only the double duty HDTV's that use the true 16:9 settings. My monitor is a Dell FP2005WS and runs native in 1680x1050 (16:10). If I give it a 16:9 ratio resolution it displays it fine but the aspect is off.

Could the double image issue possibly be a side effect of how your HDTV is perceiving the signal? I have heard from some people that some makes of HDTV do not make the best PC monitors due to the ways they interpret the signal from the PC. I'd think if you had the monitor driver installed (not just the video driver but the specific driver for that monitor) as well as running a pure DVI line between the video card and the monitor might clean up the problems you might be having. Also, what is the native resolution for that set? I've found that flatscreen widescreen PC monitors perform optimally when you have them in their native resolution.

[JB0]

Also, what is the native resolution for that set? I've found that flatscreen widescreen PC monitors perform optimally when you have them in their native resolution.

361208[/snapback]

That's because everything but CRT is actually a fixed-resolution device. If you feed it anything other than native res, the display has to up/downsample to that resolution, which invariably introduces scaling artifacts.

[mikeszekely]

Could the double image issue possibly be a side effect of how your HDTV is perceiving the signal?

I'm going to admit that I don't know enough about the tech to safely answer that.

I'd think if you had the monitor driver installed (not just the video driver but the specific driver for that monitor)

An interesting suggestion, but where would I look? My "monitor" is a Toshiba 52HM84 DLP HDTV. Toshiba has drivers available for their actual monitors, but nothing for their TVs. (Actually, the manual says that I shouldn't hook a PC up, but I couldn't see any reason not to, as long as I leave the htz at 60).

as well as running a pure DVI line between the video card and the monitor might clean up the problems you might be having.

Not really possible, since the TV doesn't have a DVI port. Just an HDMI port. I don't think that should matter, though. As I understand, DVI and HDMI* are essentially the same, except that HDMI can also carry an audio signal.

*Yes, I am aware of the newer HDMI-B that can support HD signals with higher resolutions than regular HDMI or DVI.

Also, what is the native resolution for that set? I've found that flatscreen widescreen PC monitors perform optimally when you have them in their native resolution.

720p, which should be 1280x720.

[Gaijin]

That's why I mentioned that HDTV's tend to only accept certain resolutions through certain inputs regarding PC usage (DVI, VGA, and HDMI).

Some will accept a 4:3 aspect ratio resolution through VGA and DVI and the TV itself will stretch the signal (if you opt it, otherwise it just shows in a 4:3 window on the screen) after it's diaplayed without any funky happenings other than the stretched at the ends look. Some will not.