Why Are Yamato Macross Toys Becoming So Expensive?

[dafunguy]

Recently, I told a friend that a single 1/48 valk was about $150 and he asked why a "toy" can be so expensive? I honestly couldn't answer him, other than saying, because they're SICKKK! I looked at my display case and realized that I must have spent well over $2,000 for all the Macross stuff (see picture). For that price, I could have bought more food, clothes, hookers, ipods, a psp, and a bunch of other stuff. Why are Yamato toys so expensive? With the average 1/48 valk selling for an average price of $150 now, are they really worth the price? I mean they're nice and everything, and I'm looking forward to the new releases, but are they $150 nice? I also collect action figures and spending $150 will get me a butt load of really cool figures! I can't think of any other transforming, giant robot type toys being so expensive. Masterpiece Prime Transformer went for around $90. I have some 12 inch gundams that cost me only $45 each. They are about the same size as the 1/48 valk, same amount of plastic (less diecast parts), and come with tons of accessories. Yet for $45, I can barely buy a Yamato display stand! Why the huge price difference? The plastic quality? The engineering and research? The quality control? The packaging? The demand? To me, the 1/48 should be $80 toys...$100 max. Are we just paying Yamato more because they can get away with it or can they actually justify the high prices? What price would enough be enough for you to stop buying? For me, if it goes beyond $175, I'm done.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I seriously feel at has something to do with the fact there is no competition. When a rival company can compete you see prices drop in order to stay alive. I am amazed at what I can buy with my money when there are sales on videogames and take into account the healthy secondhand market for quality titles. Why? Because there is so much to compete against for consumer dollars and market dominance. But when I look at yamato toys, I know it is being paid at a premium.

Will fans get ripped off and love it? Yes. Because they are fans and fans are usually the most desperate to own something even if they knew they paid more than they should have for something.

Having said that, you can't question the actual quality of the 1/48. I love it (20 years and we finally have a detailed valk) and I think if they were cheaper more people would buy them and open the door to others who are not as hardcore into macross as the people on this board. (ie they will see it and buy it on impulse similar to how people buy alternators when browsing the toy section)

Edited January 12, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[jenius]

Yeah, I often lament the amount of hookers I have not gotten because of my Macross/MOSPEADA/Robotech toy collection. Believe me, $2000 isn't all that horrible. GODZILLA spends that every time Yamato releases a new toy.

Honestly though, I full-heartedly agree that Yamato has begun taking advantage of the Macross fans. $120 for a friggin' accessory for a $140 Valk? Yeah, right, that makes sense. They probably just saw Toynami's price point, realized their toy was twice as cool, and just charged twice as much.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Recently, I told a friend that a single 1/48 valk was about $150 and he asked why a "toy" can be so expensive?

You should call them collector's items and then it won't sound so weird. I think the fact that there is lots of attention to detail (see the fast packs) it kind of puts the valk into a adult collector price range as opposed to the "kid who pesters his mom for one" pricerange.

Of course that might not have anything to do with actual value but it sounds more grown up.

http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dl...prclo=&saprchi=

If you look on ebay though the real price is about the $130-$135 mark. Shopping around helps. But again for me it is that added shipping cost that hurts the most.

Edited January 12, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[bryan_f_davis@yahoo.com]

Recently, I told a friend that a single 1/48 valk was about $150 and he asked why a "toy" can be so expensive?

You should call them collector's items and then it won't sound so weird. I think the fact that there is lots of attention to detail (see the fast packs) it kind of puts the valk into a adult collector price range as opposed to the "kid who pesters his mom for one" pricerange.

Of course that might not have anything to do with actual value but it sounds more grown up.

http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dl...prclo=&saprchi=

If you look on ebay though the real price is about the $130-$135 mark. Shopping around helps. But again for me it is that added shipping cost that hurts the most.

359497[/snapback]

Are the 1/48 Yamatos worth their hefty price tag?

Yes.

But...

The prices of these beauties are frightening. I have to work a second job just to support my Macross habbit. They are just "collector's items" or toys, but they are more than that. They are a piece of your childhood that is everything you ever wanted, and more.

Not to bash on Toynami, but their Masterpiece Collection does not hold a candle to a 1/48 valk. Nothing does. As far as detail, posability, and the ONLY valkryie that does NOT need removeable parts to fully transform, they cannot be beat. Not to mention the bigger size adds so much to these wonderful works of art.

I know, I know, its okay to "love" your toys, just don't "love" them.

I felt the same way too. Back when all I could get my hands on were Toynami toys. But once you get a 1/48 valk, your entire perspective on your valk is raised to a whole new level.

Look at it this way. Toynami's "Masterpiece" toys are floppy legged. Poorly detailed and painted. Have no QC coming out of the factory...I can go on and on. THey are priced at RT.com for 80 bucks a pop. I would like to say you get what you pay for, but I was so dissapointed with EVERY SINGLE ONE of my vf-1 toynami valks. They, to me, are worth MAYBE 20 bucks a piece. ANd that is just because the box rocks.

But my 48 valk, my first one, I paid over 200 bucks for it. And it was worth every penny.

Just my two cents.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I am not sure on this but from what I have read about the toy industry, the more small parts=higher expense. For example, the 1.48 has a TON more parts than the bandai 1/55s, its not apparent from the outside but once you take both apart, it shows. THe steel toolings for the molds cost more to create for small part, the molds themselves are HUGE chunks of steel and small parts simply make the cost higher, its cheaper to produce larger solid pieces of plastic like an entire wing than it is to produce 15 pieces of small plastic pieces such as landing gears and antennas. You get the idea. I used to know more about this stuff but its been a while so I forgot. Put it this way. Bandai's 1/.55 and toynami's MPC, their wings are cast as one piece, the yamato 1.48 has one broad piece of wing, maybe 2 or more parts that insert atop, in ADDITION to 2 lights, and a flap per wing. So basically the more parts and especially smaller parts required per toy=more money to be charged=more money needed to use the mold/fund it. So of course yamato's 1.48 wing would cost a lot more to make from the molds than bandai's 1/.55 wing and toynamis MPC wing.

I always questioned why a bigger toy such as those gargantuan power ranger zords never went beyond the price of a 1./48(in the US store Msrps), and the reason is that though while the zords of the past were at times expoenentially bigger than the 1/48 toys, they simply were MUCH less complex and less detailed, not needing nowhere near as many parts, so in this case its not so much the size of the toy that dictates the price, its the amount of pieces involved to create the piece.

Now if yamato had a lot more larger pieces than smaller pieces, we could have a cheaper 1/48. However this would result in a much less detailed toy, and of course we would complain. And a lot of sculpted details could be lost in the process and such. (for example for simplicity pretend that yamato puts out 1.48 wings all in one piece, NO clear plastic lights, instead painted areas to "imitate" the lights much like bandai and toynami does with their 1.55 wings). You get what I'm saying?

Yamato aimed these at the collectors market and they know what we want in some way. With a kid you could please them with simplicity, adults are a lot more demanding.

And the transformation adds a lot to the small parts issue, all the hinges and parts needed to enable a smooth transformation add to the amount of small parts needed to make the toy. This might be a major reason the 1.60 VF-0 costs more than a 1.48 VF-1, outside it might seem simpler but its a disguise, perhaps the VF-0 has a ton of smaller parts underneath that enable its transformation.

Its an expensive hobby but if anything I have learned good things come to those who wait. I always waited for bandais to be reissued and after more than 10 years of waiting we got our wish, however this coincided with us being flooded by yamato VF-1's. So its a mixed blessing. I always wished a company would one day outdo bandai/takatoku's old 1.55 and create a new more detailed still perfect variable VF-1 toy, and yamato came along and did that. And lord knows how long macross fans were waiting for a valk to knock over the 1.55(though this is debatable I got a LOT of love for the 1/55 and I know some of you still do).

But nonetheless it is pricey, if the zero line is extended to the rest of the important fighters, I will onnly pick up perhaps 1 of each.

[jenius]

Yeah, it makes sense that the 1/48 is more expensive than the 1/55 but it should be noted you were wrong about Toynami's wings. They do have clear plastic tabs to simulate lights:

Please note, only the Taka doesn't have clear plastic parts embedded in the wing. Neither do HCMs.

Edited January 12, 2006 by jenius

[rye23]

you got to give it to yamato bec their the only one who had the guts to produce toys based on a 20+ year anime. i could be wrong with all of this license dispute thing, but if your the only manufacturer who actually got the rights to produce these toys, its just natural that they want to earn more. thats why you invest on something. to earn money. thats just how it is. it basically comes down to you as a collector what is still ok and what is absurd. u dont really have to answer to anyone bec this is your obsession. heck, everybody has their own obsession. i dont understand why other people are so into cars, sports, etc., so i dont really expect people to understand me. the impt thing is when u ask yourself if its worth it or not.

[Nani?!]

The cost of parts and making the valk, etc, really has nothing to do with inflated prices of the valks... these things can sell for half the price and they'd still make a lot...

yeah, they got many small parts, but they also save in many other respects, like paint, and 95% shared parts for different valks with only a head that's different... they also obviously dont pay much for package design as well...

Anyway, it's simple and it's been said over and over... there's just no competition... yamato is milking this cash cow all by itself...

Though I never regret buying a valk, (yamato take note) I'd buy A LOT more if they were 30% cheaper... I'd probably spend more money on buying multiples...

but yeah whatever... what can you do?

[Graham]

To a large extent, it boils down to economics of scale, i.e. the more units you sell, the lower the cost-price per unit.

Both Gundam and Transformers have a huge fanbase compared to Macross.

Bandai and Hasbro/Takara have production runs likely in the hundreds of thousands of units per toy, compared to Yamato's production runs, which are relatively small, e.g. in the 5,000 to 15,000 units per toy.

Therefore price comparisons of Macross toys compared to Gundam and Transformers toys are mostly pointless as the big companies can afford to sell their toys at a cheaper price point.

But, yes as mentioned aleady Yamato is the only kid on the block producing quality transforming Macross toys, so the lack of any meaningful competition does allow a certain amount of price jacking on Yamato's part.

However, Yamato is still a pretty small company and the costs involved with the design, tooling and manufacture of this type of toy are insanely high.

Graham

[aaajin]

its funny that no one commented on the middle-man's part/role in jacking up the price..

[Graham]

And of course for you guys living outside of Japan or Hong Kong, shipping is a large part in the cost as well.

Graham

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Hopefully one day when they are less stingy, we will see yamato tampo print more of the stuff on the toy. Similar to what happened with bandai reissues of the macross 7 valks. I was a little disapointed that for example when the monster came out they didn't put the little eyeball markings on the side of the chest when in a similarly-priced 1/48 vf1, they had at least marked the un spacy symbol on the wing and skull on the tailfin and also included the stripe.

The Qrau was also a little disapointing: the figure was not posable, the missiles were not like the detail of 1/48 FAST packs or GBP. Given that it is 1/60 I can forgive. But when you see other efforts like the scopedog you wish they had put as much as was possible into making them 'real' like the standard they set with 1/48 vf1. If they were to ever do a set of destroids it would be great to see all the little missiles inside the robot as seperate pieces just like the GBP. Because the Qrau and destroid do not transform they can concentrate on other stuff.

I think that is what seperates the "toy" which you don't mind playing with and handling (bandai 1/55) from "collector item" quality. It's the little details and effort that went into the toy to make it seem like real. When others see the fast packs and the effort put into them they go "wow". When they see the GBP armor open up with all the missiles inside, they take notice. Even stuff that isn't seen on the insides makes a difference to the fan. I'm interested to see the rotating seat gimmick on the VF0. The 1/60 vf0, if matching the 1/48 details, will be collector item quality if they manage to add these finer things to the toy that you don't quite get with the 1/60 Qrau.

Edited January 12, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[KiriK]

359482[/snapback]

yeah!!! love the display case.... where'd u get it?? and how much???? along w/ buying all these expensive toys.... finding a nice way to display also matters....

[Macross73]

In short Yes, the 1/48s are worth it.

i agree the shipping from overseas

is hard on averybodys wallet.

[jonwayne]

actually, i'd very much be happy to pay more if more of it's parts are made of metal instead of plastic.

like the 1/60 where the legs are metal. at least.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Well, if you spent $150-$200 on a hooker you don't get replay value for every other night of your natural lifespan.

Doesn't the 1/48 yamato look like a bargain in that perspective?

[max]

I am not sure on this but from what I have read about the toy industry, the more small parts=higher expense.  For example, the 1.48 has a TON more parts than the bandai 1/55s, its not apparent from the outside but once you take both apart, it shows. THe steel toolings for the molds cost more to create for small part, the molds themselves are HUGE chunks of steel and small parts simply make the cost higher, its cheaper to produce larger solid pieces of plastic like an entire wing than it is to produce 15 pieces of small plastic pieces such as landing gears and antennas.  You get the idea.  I used to know more about this stuff but its been a while so I forgot.  Put it this way.  Bandai's 1/.55 and toynami's MPC, their wings are cast as one piece, the yamato 1.48 has one broad piece of wing, maybe 2 or more parts that insert atop, in ADDITION to 2 lights, and a flap per wing.  So basically the more parts and especially smaller parts required per toy=more money to be charged=more money needed to use the mold/fund it.  So of course yamato's 1.48 wing would cost a lot more to make from the molds than bandai's 1/.55 wing and toynamis MPC wing. 

I always questioned why a bigger toy such as those gargantuan power ranger zords never went beyond the price of a 1./48(in the US store Msrps), and the reason is that though while the zords of the past were at times expoenentially bigger than the 1/48 toys, they simply were MUCH less complex and less detailed, not needing nowhere near as many parts, so in this case its not so much the size of the toy that dictates the price, its the amount of pieces involved to create the piece. 

Now if yamato had a lot more larger pieces than smaller pieces, we could have a cheaper 1/48. However this would result in a much less detailed toy, and of course we would complain.  And a lot of sculpted details could be lost in the process and such.  (for example for simplicity pretend that yamato puts out 1.48 wings all in one piece, NO clear plastic lights, instead painted areas to "imitate" the lights much like bandai and toynami does with their 1.55 wings).  You get what I'm saying?

359528[/snapback]

The cost of parts dependent on size is negligible at this size as well as complexity. I'd hate to break it to you guys but almost every plastic toy and yes even the 1/48 start life as a sprue just like any plastic model kit. So even if you have 40 little pieces they can all be designed and molded onto one sprue. The cost of putting it together is negligible as well since labor is so cheap in China(just check out all the hand painting on a spawn figure that retails for $8.00).

Where something like the yamato could become more expensive to produce is if it has parts requiring side pulls which require more sophisticated machines and more time since they cannot be made with the other parts in a single shot. I haven't taken the time to study the manufacturing aspect of the yamato but I doubt there are many side pulls.

The quality of the injection molding machines themselves could also drive up the cost but I'm not convinced Yamato has invested the kinda of money to get their parts up to the standard of Bandai or the benchmark, Lego parts.

Even if they had invested in better machines and used sidepulls extensively, I have a heard time believing it would drive them to a price point of $135. The fact is they are making a decent return on their investment.

There price does make sense from a marketing strategy standpoint. If the valks were $100 were you have bought more. If our minds we say yes, but I don't think so. How many multiples do we really need? You probably would have bought the same number. That extra $35 puts a little more pain in our wallets but it's really isn't enough to deter us. I think $135 is too much for a toy which is why I only have one. But you see, I still got one, so the answer to the question: is it worth it? is yes.

[jwinges]

The one that has me miffed is the price of the new 1/60 zero. Damn!

I know its a large toy but for that price they could have made it 1/48 rather than mess up the scale.

Also what ever happened to the supposed cheap valks from macross zero?

[Fortress_Maximus]

The one that has me miffed is the price of the new 1/60 zero.  Damn!

I know its a large toy but for that price they could have made it 1/48 rather than mess up the scale.

Also what ever happened to the supposed cheap valks from macross zero?

359653[/snapback]

I agree about the questionable price for the new zero, I don't even have it yet and I feel like Yamato is gouging me already. And why wasn't it made in the 1/48 scale anyways?

Cheap valks from zero, in both of our dreams.

Back on topic though, I agree with Graham and many others Yamato has a monopoly on this niche toy. I don't care what others call it, IT IS damn impressive TOY. It's like calling comics graphic novels... pfff... it IS a comic, accept it. As such, yes we are all paying for toys and when others see it it is only natural that they question our how shall we put this, sanity.

Are the Yamato 1/48s and 1/60s worth it? IMO that is ENTIRELY subjective and the 'worth' is in the eyes of the beholder. No collectors that I know outside of the Macross community think these toys are remotely worth it. The same is said however about production cels and bear in mind, the average price of a high end cel is $700+ and there is no end to the people who will pay a premium for Ghibli cels which easily exceed $3K! Those people are nuts, right? Or are they? Public opinion would say we are equally nuts. So... it just boils down to one thing, "is the price that YOU are paying for YOUR toys worthwhile to YOU?" IMO anyone elses opinions regarding this should not mean poo. If you are seeking validation from others some of whom will consist of the average public, YOU WILL NOT GET IT.

For the average 1/48 collector they have anywhere from six to twelve of these, not counting the FPs and GBPs. Do the math and even using conservative pricing the average collector has spent around $780 preshipping. Realistically most of us have spent well over the 1.5K mark for these. That IS quite a few shares of stocks and a crapload of lowerend toys and electronic gadgets.

Will Yamato reduce the prices, I somehow doubt it. They are milking the fans for all they are worth and most despite the protests and moaning, we will continue to support them. Personally I do however have a price point where I will simply stop and Yamato is rapidly approaching it. A word of advice to Yamato, do not milk the cows that feed you to death!

Edited January 12, 2006 by Fortress_Maximus

[Blaine23]

I know, I know, its okay to "love" your toys, just don't "love" them. 

Ew.

Well, I do suppose that might justify the price somewhat... if you could... uh, "love" them in the way AgentONE loves doorknobs.

Seriously, though, the whole thing's basic economics. The show's old, it's not all that popular except to fans of our generation, and they're high quality/low quantity items. That pretty much ensures that the price will be high. Throw in the fact that they must be shipped from Japan and the tiny detail that Yamato and the retailer need to make some kind of profit and there you go.

Yamato toys cost what they cost. I myself had to sell a few in a pinch when I needed some money fast. The great thing is that the higher priced items usually either hold their initial value or actually go up in value a year or so after release. Can't say the same thing about your car or your clothes... so what's the better buy?

[nightmareB4macross]

I know, I know, its okay to "love" your toys, just don't "love" them. 

Ew.

Well, I do suppose that might justify the price somewhat... if you could... uh, "love" them in the way AgentONE loves doorknobs.

Seriously, though, the whole thing's basic economics. The show's old, it's not all that popular except to fans of our generation, and they're high quality/low quantity items. That pretty much ensures that the price will be high. Throw in the fact that they must be shipped from Japan and the tiny detail that Yamato and the retailer need to make some kind of profit and there you go.

Yamato toys cost what they cost. I myself had to sell a few in a pinch when I needed some money fast. The great thing is that the higher priced items usually either hold their initial value or actually go up in value a year or so after release. Can't say the same thing about your car or your clothes... so what's the better buy?

359660[/snapback]

Hookers!!! They don't go up in value, they just go up and down on your doorknob.

[VALKYRIE-EXCHANGE.COM]

its funny that no one commented on the middle-man's part/role in jacking up the price..

359574[/snapback]

'Jacking up the price' is a bit harsh word to say. No to imply that I am offended in any way but the middleman has to make money to run his/her business and operations. Some people have higher overheads vs others and therefore reflects in the final sale price of the item(s).

-Kevin

[bigkid24]

I just skimmed this topic but I think that Graham had the best answers. The fan base, the visibility of the source material. Transformers and Gundam are always on. There's always a series created to bring in new fans.

I think it's funny that people are complaining about the price but then b!tching that it should have been bigger. Remember people a 1/60 VF-0 is close to height to a 1/48 VF-1. It's already pretty big.

[Fortress_Maximus]

Is a 1/60 larger than a 1/48?

[OverTechJunkie]

Is a 1/60 larger than a 1/48? 

359781[/snapback]

No. Smaller the number the bigger it is. 1/1 would be full size. (Imagine standing next to an f-14)

[Dante74]

Is a 1/60 larger than a 1/48? 

359781[/snapback]

No. Smaller the number the bigger it is. 1/1 would be full size. (Imagine standing next to an f-14)

359785[/snapback]

I don't think he meant the scale, he meant the height of the toy.

I think I read on another thread that he 1/60 VF-0 is a little larger than the 1/48 VF-1

[bryan_f_davis@yahoo.com]

Hey Fortress Max.

Yup. The 1/60 VF-0 is larger than the 1/48 VF-1 Valks.

Overtechjunkie is right. The smaller the scale the larger the item.

So, the VF-0 is actually a larger fighter jet than the VF-1. Which makes sense, considering it is the first of it's class. By time Macross opens, many years have gone by, and the Valkyries have been much improved, and even smaller. Hell, they dont have the fuel issues the 0 did.

God. I just read what I wrote. I am a nerd.

With that, I am out of here.

SNAP!

[jenius]

The smaller the scale the larger the item.

Bryan, while the rest of your post makes sense, this quote is wrong. A 1/48 VF-1 will always be larger than a 1/60 VF-1. The reason for this is because a larger scale makes for a larger item.

In the case of a VF-0 vs a VF-1 though a 1/60 scale VF-0 is slightly larger than a 1/48 scale VF-1. If Both were done to 1/48 scale the VF-0 would be GINORMOUS in comparison.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

There price does make sense from a marketing strategy standpoint. If the valks were $100 were you have bought more. If our minds we say yes, but I don't think so. How many multiples do we really need? You probably would have bought the same number. That extra $35 puts a little more pain in our wallets but it's really isn't enough to deter us. I think $135 is too much for a toy which is why I only have one. But you see, I still got one, so the answer to the question: is it worth it? is yes.

Yeah I think what would happen is this: if fans stopped buying anymore vf1 (say due to space, being sick of vf1, spending money on other things which slows down the rate of thier buying them up) you might see the price lower slowly over time to rake in people who really do think that extra $35 is high.

First exploit the early adopter/fans/hardcore collectors who just gotta have it now. (they've got a good paying job, and/or they've been saving for the release for months and are eager to just have the thing right this minute - these are the types that preorder and can't wait to have one now, always worried that they might lose out and the item will sell out and they might go without one)

Second step: if sales slow and the first market is overdone and everyone withint that group who wanted one has what they want and can no longer buy anymore, start reducing price for the budget conscious. That is people who really are interested in the toy but for whatever reason just couldn't afford one. They didn't save up for it or go to the trouble of saving for it, (they would rather spend thier money on something else seeing "value" as important in a product and not just quality) have a lower income, but really like the toy. Not enough as the fanatic like some of the guys who own 90 valks, but enough that they would be interested 'within a reasonable limit' once the item reaches thier price range. Not all of us can afford a ferrari even though we would like one. It just isn't practical to an average joe and is considered a luxury. It is out of that person's price range.

Now because there are the fans, hardcore collectors, early adopters who open the door to the market for these toys, they are the most likley to eat up the costs due to enthusiasm. Of course they know money is no object and the toy itself is more important. They would gladly pay a high price if the quality was to an acceptable limit to worth it to them. Take the toynami alpha: the only thing holding me back is if the quality of the toy was good enough that there would be no risk of it breaking. I would pay a high price for one if that issue were adressed. Money is no object to me once a certain minimum standard of quality is reached. But I DO pay attention to the price once the standard of care gone into its making isn't good, because to me something is not worth it if it doesn't last. In this instance, I would fall under the second category of "budget-conscious/value-conscious" buyer, not hardcore collector or early-adopting fan.

After the "Early Adopter" crowd is milked and even fans have reached thier limit, it would benefit a company to lower the cost gradually over time to the 'second tier' of buyer. (the average joe who might only be interested in 1 but REALLY wants it if he could just find it at a reasonable price for him) Why would this beneficial? Because these possibly outnumber the first tier of buyer and there are more average joes in the world than the hardcore dedicated devotee. If somehow they could find a way to open up the market more to this second tier "budget conscious" buyer, this would result in more overall sales and total number of toy sold.

...But only AFTER they have milked the first group and the people in that category are about ready to see something new. I know I have reached my limit of vf1 and don't see that much value buying up every variant with a slight head change, unless two seater comes out. Space is the main issue: there is only so many of these valks you can have out of thier box at any one time. If the price keeps going up, I will start to lose interest unless I manage to find a bargain.

In the long run, it is true they might make more keeping the price up high, but they then miss out on the bigger masses of buyers who might not even be possible to buy more than one even if they wanted to. If there was a way to reach the mass toy buyers then overall more can be moved, the middle man might be able to mke even more because now there are more potential customers for the toy etc The faster they caan be moved and still make a decent profit, the healthier to the macross license overall.

But of course I believe since they can afford to "take thier time" due to lack of competition there is nothing to lose if they take it very slowly and spread releases apart. Their only competition is with themselves. ie GBP sales competes with VF0 sales if they are both released same time. Much better to string them in sequence over time. Hoping the fan can replenish the wallet and buy up both once they generate more of that disposable income.

It is not disimilar to what had happened when nintendo had thier monopoly on 8bit game consoles until sega came along and split the market into a 50/50. Once nintendo were scared that they would lose half thier marketshare to a rival they started to seriously make a machine that could compete against the upcoming 16 bit generation of console just to "stay in the game". Progress is much faster once you see competition. But so far, like others have mentioned when you are the only game in town, you can afford to take your time because there is nothing lose and no risk of "losing your money to a competing company who offers the same or similar thing as you of a competing quality, and who can outprice, outproduce, and somehow find a way to run more efficiently to reduce costs than you can, making you obsolete unless you can adapt or provide better value".

Having said all this I am very grateful to even own 1 of these 1/48 as they represent the dream you had as a kid of wanting a detailed transforming mecha of the thing in the show. Somebody mentioned you can't put a price on that experience you had of finally being granted the wish to see it made into reality. You only live once and money isn't something that will have value into the afterlife. 20 years is a long time to wait and the series is so old that introducing new fans won't be easy since there are those who just won't watch older anime.

Edited January 13, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[jenius]

No. Smaller the number the bigger it is. 1/1 would be full size. (Imagine standing next to an f-14)

I think people are failing to understand how scale works. 1/1 is one divided by one or.... ONE. 1/60 is one divided by sixty which is a SMALLER number. The smaller the number the SMALLER it is. 1/48 is one divided by forty-eight which is bigger than one divided by sixty so it is a larger scale.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

But the size of the vf0 of same scale VF1 is that vf0 is bigger. Even at smaller scale to vf1 the toy is still bigger. Haha. The confusion comes when people say "size" but don't specifiy if they meant bigger scale or that the toy itself is bigger regardless of scale. Shipping will be a bitch if VF0 is 1/48. You guys are crazy for wanting massive toys. I want to be able to hold the damn thing and transform it. Hopefully detail won't suffer and they include the rotating seat gimmick.

The transformation is less complex (massive swing bar like a bandai) hands don't retract, the heat shield doesn't tuck under chest plate, but hopefuly that means more attention is then spent on improving other things like detail underneath the feet, (1/48 vf1 looks more fake) hands that can grip the gunpod strong and not feel so loose, seat gimmick, tampo printed detail (please), better articulation in the shoulders, and less 'fatty' nose. (not easy since you have to compromise between good looking batroid mode and sleek fighter jet - being originally made as a cg object might help though)

Edited January 13, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Fortress_Maximus]

I would disagree with the statement, "...I believe since they can afford to 'take thier time' due to lack of competition" mainly b/c this series is not getting any popular as time progresses. Reducing the pricing point from the beginning is a much more effective way of enticing ALL potentially interested buyers. However, since I for one am not privvy to the production and investment costs needed for the 1/48s and/or the 1/60s, I cannot state with certainty that Yamato could actually afford to do this. In the end, regardless of the marketing strategy they use... we either buy it or wait and possibly pay the price in the secondary market.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

But it was under the condition that: if sales slow. I don't think they have now, since the price goes up when people can't find them anymore whether due to genuine shortages or being hard to find.

But when they do, I garuantee you will see the price drop to move the valks from the shops to make more space to hold toys that CAN move quickly so the owner can make more money by stocking things that are moving quickly and popular at the time. Of course that is why making a limited number of something (instead of like the transformers of overproducing by flooding the shelves then discounting unsold stock that was cheap to make) and spreading releases apart would work well. Why? Because you can lower that risk of not selling it all. It makes more profit per sale, but at a slower, less risky rate. (this as opposed to making less profit per sale, but having exponentially more people to sell to due to a lower price point, and thus making more money at a faster rate)

Roy was reissued several times which pissed off the collectors who wanted him to stay valuable. It was a better move to wait until all was gone to generate demand again instead of making lots of them from the begining. This allows the second hand market to value him higher and justify letting the toy go up in value in the mindshare of the people watching it and then as people watch it go up they are less likely to complain for getting him at a higher cost to themselves. It is only after the reissue and everyone who wanted one, now has one, that it goes back down to normal prices. Why did it go high in the first place? Because everyone thought that it would be hard to get. They had to "compete" with others to own it and that meant the maker of it could leverage this demand to 'hold its value' over time. But in the instance when the market has been flooded with the item and people who wanted it, now have thier fill of the item, that is when the sales will slow and prices goes down. It just so happens that SDF:macross is a good license because in that series there are so many variants of the same mecha so it takes longer.

Of course macross is a dying series, but I don't think that has anything to do with why something should be expensive. I think it is more to do with knowing your fans and the amount they will pay, and through knowing the fans and providing them the stuff they want in the toy (eg high detail, perfect transformation) it generates demand amoungst non-fans or casual fans due to the hype and reputation as a 'good' brand, and this heightened demand filters into the mindset of the interested buyers who see value in the toys and willing to fork over high amount for them. For example I would never pay for a toynami due to the 'reputation' they have alone. So to me they are not worth what the original price they were 'set' at. But a good quality brand which is reliable, that trust is worth something and it means I will pay a good price for it because of that worth. The fan knows what is worth something and what isn't worth something so it is all relative to the competition out at the time. Nothing can compete with a 1/48 vf1 but if there were a competitor, you might see a price war like what you see with videogame consoles to capture marketshare and steal attention from the competitor to stay in the game and ride it out for the long run in the hope you wll be the only one left standing and eventually be the guy who has the monopoly. (ie HG with the Mospeada toys and the fact they can put the price high despite the quality - they are kept expensive because they can get away with it)

I think the best example is to do your own experiment and ask the seller if they "price match" with other competitors. That is ask them: "will you guys sell me the same thing that I can find at another store for cheaper if I can prove to you it exists at this cheaper price on this date?"

Chances are if the seller wants to remain competitive to his rival seller, he will say 'yes' and decide to sell you the item at the price you saw it somewhere else for the sake of just getting the sale from you and having money. Even if it meant he made less profit than if he kept the price the same before you showed him a better price, but got no sale from you. Shop space is important factor too. Having the money keeps them alive and 'in the game' for the 'long haul'; competing for your dollars and patronage and denying the rival competitor of a sale.

Edited January 13, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Graham]

The one that has me miffed is the price of the new 1/60 zero.  Damn!

I know its a large toy but for that price they could have made it 1/48 rather than mess up the scale.

Also what ever happened to the supposed cheap valks from macross zero?

359653[/snapback]

A VF-0 in 1/48 would just be too large and therefore too unwieldy, not to mention be a real shelf hog. The 1/60 VF-0S is already slightly larger than a 1/48 VF-1.

The cheaper (I won't say cheap as the price point would have been ¥4,400), 1/100 scale VF-0S toy was quietly dropped before release as it came under universal scorn from both Japanese and International fans due to the ugly sculpt and need to swap out a large number of parts to transform it. There were also rumors of production difficulties with the parts fitting due to some of the parts of the toy being designed with CAD, while others were hand-sculpted - basically a real mess.

Graham