All things Voltron

[JB0]

Well it's not due to ship until next month, but yes I definitely think this comes down to Josh's CDX review. CDX gets a lot of views so I'm sure some boyscout posted it to WEP. He should have held the review until product was shipping, but that's kind of the mentality of toy reviewers. "I want to be first." Also, I'm sure mad toys wanted to get the word out, but they should have done it through a smaller channel that wouldn't have attracted so much attention.

I'm just wondering if the person that posted was a naive and well-intentioned fan that just wanted to spread the word, or a troll that wanted to see this happen. Honestly just out of curiosity.

I take your point that they are trying to do things with the license, but also I have no sympathy for Toynami and their products because it's so subpar in terms of design and quality, while they keep blocking efforts for a real gokin release from a quality company. You could argue HG has put out Shadow Chronicles and allowed the release of all the Toynami crap they've put out too, so I don't know how much that changes the argument.

Oh, I don't defend Toynami in the least. Just WEP.

...

Does Shadow Chronicles really count as a plus?

Honestly, I did consider it, but... two complete TV series vs an OVA produced on a shoestring budget(that was allegedly the first in a cancelled series)? It's like a full meal at a five-star restaurant vs a bowl of store-brand Froot Loops(™ Kellogs Cereal please don't sue) with no milk.

Anyhow, my main point was that WEP actually has a leg to stand on, and HG is just crapping on fans for fun because no one's going to stop them.

But I also give them a bit of moral high ground because they ARE actually doing something other than making a complete fool of themselves. They've just made some poor licensing decisions.

Crap products are still crap products, be it cheap flimsy toys or crappy made for video OVA's. In the end they are holding nostalgic properties hostage and instead of bringing something new to the table for the original fans they are trying to leech out money.

They aren't as scummy as HG, but they aren't fan friendly either.

But... WEP DID try to bring something new to the table for fans. I haven't seen enough of the follow-up shows to know if they SUCCEEDED, but... they at least tried.

I'm reasonably certain they knew about this thing for quite a while and WERE turning a blind eye to it. But... you can't turn a blind eye when someone paints it on your face.

[Gakken85]

Yeah. I still think this beast will get to collectors though.

Hell, I think Mad Toys could just go on RJ forums and sell them through paypal on the buy/sell/trade.

WEP couldn't do anything about that.

[JB0]

That would be an... exceedingly bad idea. They're being watched right now, if any more toys show up "in the wild", or any hint that they're TRYING to get these toys out there, they're in serious legal trouble.

I'd hope for an official license like that (adorable) SD Voltron. It'd really be a case where everyone wins. Mad Toys get to actually CALL the thing Voltron, and gain access to a significantly more powerful marketing force, WEP gets to not look like big mean stinkyheads, and the fans get their merch.

Odds seem slim since it would be in direct competition with the Toynami re-release, but... here's hoping.

[Gakken85]

I don't think so. The majority of collectors aren't going to review it anyway, but there isn't anything WEP can do about personal exchanges.

If I made up some bulky re-imagined VF-1 through shapeways and sold it through paypal - HG couldn't do crap about it.

It's more about selling these through an online site, or having it available in the official market.

It's like when Beta toys sold 1/60's on the forums. HG had gone after his site in the states because he had macross items for sale. He was able to unload them all here through personal transactions.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Gakken85

[JB0]

A. It's NOT a personal exchange, though. And while WEP would likely have ignored it before(just like they had been), now they can't really. If these things show up, they know who made them.

And they already told them "you need to stop that, this is our guy you're cloning, and that didn't work out so well for King Zarkon." So Mad Toys can't even claim they thought they were good. A small run sold one at a time to individuals would not be ceasing and desisting(nor nearly as profitable, if at all).

They'd basically be hanging a big neon sign out front that says "So sue me already." And WEP WOULD sue, not because they WANT to, but because they can't afford NOT to.

Basically, once legal documents get involved, a lot of avenues you COULD have safely pursued before suddenly become closed to you.

B. Actually, HG COULD go after you for making your own manufacture-on-demand VF-1 and selling it with PayPal.

Well, they'd have as much standing as they did with blocking VF imports. Whether that's none at all or totally in the right is another matter entirely.

Perhaps more pertinently, Games Workshop has gone after people for EXACTLY what you describe with modified Warhammer 40,000 figures. Not even selling, just putting the models out there for free.

And in what is technically described as "a serious dick move", they also went after people who were making original figures not directly based off any GW product, because they were made in the Warhammer style. Which was true, but not really a legal stance.

As always, whoever has the deeper pockets wins, but it cost GW a lot of good will in a situation where they DIDN'T actually have to do anything. Even if they did have trademark concerns on the modified units, the original designs were totally clear(I'm pretty sure you can't trademark "any tank with knives and skulls hanging off it", and Marvel and DC killed "look and feel" cases pretty thoroughly).

This is, of course, different in Japan. There are explicit legal protections for small-run fan products there. American law makes no such distinction.

C. It's not remotely like the Beta Toys thing. Selling officially-licensed-just-in-a-different-country toys is a completely different legal situation from manufacturing your own completely-unlicensed-in-any-country toy.

It's a gray area, and my understanding is that the volume sold seems to be very important*, but... it's not outright illegal like making and selling your own unlicensed toy would be.

Also, you know, HG didn't really WANT to sue. They'd've had to show someone the actual license, which we know for a fact can't say what they claim it does. They wanted the THREAT of a lawsuit, but never an ACTUAL lawsuit. Basically, they were mugging people with an unloaded gun.

*At some poorly-defined point you stop supplying a specialty product to collectors and become a mass-market competitor, and THEN you're infringing on the licensee's rights, but as long as you're below that threshold you're totally legit.

[eight_car]

Because Lion Force Voltron ran twice as long as Golion.

True story. Half the lion Voltron episodes were produced for american use only and are not a part of Golion.

The story is FAR BETTER in Go Lion, and actually makes sense!

Watch Voltron beginning to end and you will see inconsistencies.

The alleged robots....living beings..but can't have deaths in kiddie cartoon

The original member of the team DIED!, It was his BROTHER that was shown in the later part of the series

That annoying maid DIES!

But then again, some people prefer a hacked up sanitized mangled anime to the original. Kinda how some people like robotech better than Macross :wacko:

[JB0]

The story is FAR BETTER in Go Lion, and actually makes sense!

It's a super robot show. In general, I don't watch them for plot.

The original member of the team DIED!, It was his BROTHER that was shown in the later part of the series

Until we get to the american-original episodes, where it's definitely him and not a repurposed twin brother.

That annoying maid DIES!

Then why does she show up later? Right, because they wrote an entire second arc for Lion Voltron.

But perhaps the most notable Golion/Voltron difference is that the mice don't get their own robot in Golion.

But then again, some people prefer a hacked up sanitized mangled anime to the original. Kinda how some people like robotech better than Macross :wacko:

If Harmony Gold had commissioned an extra 36 episodes of SDF Macross from Studio Nue, I think we'd all look at Robotech a little kinder. (And I DO give HG credit for trying to NOT sanitize the shows that made up Robotech, though I feel they ultimately made a huge mis-step by trying to present all three shows as a single story instead of three unrelated shows united under the Robotech brand.)

In any case, I ultimately view Voltron and Golion as two separate things. They diverge very wildly very rapidly. But ultimately, the main draw here is nostalgia, and I grew up with Voltron, not Golion.

[JetJockey]

That Mad Toys "Voltron" looks too bulky. It's accurate or nothing for me.

I wonder if a compnay could make the legs sink into the body and have separate covers for them in Voltron mode? It would be a lot of extra pieces though. And there would still be the neck issue.

[Mechapilot77]

so anyone here actually get the madtoys voltron? pictures posted on FB recently have me reconsidering my need for "accuracy"....

[Harlock Fan]

I was wondering what people think about the new Toynami Voltron from Toy Fair 2015

[Mechapilot77]

I was wondering what people think about the new Toynami Voltron from Toy Fair 2015

it looks pretty good but who knows when it will be out if ever. its also IMO modernized take on voltron so purists may balk. i do kinda doubt they can top the unofficial madtoys one as everyon rave about how that feels in hand. the overall sculpting of this does look nice even if i think the details could be finer. considering they want $140 for a reissued potentially fixed tiny alpha fighter i'm scared to think on what they'd ask for this...

[VF5SS]

If you see pictures of one of the lions sitting down, it's because I asked George Sohn to do that and he thought it was a great idea lol

The big thing he told us is that this Voltron emphasizes the lions as fully featured toys on their own.

Here's our gallery from the showroom.

http://www.collectiondx.com/gallery/v/FeatureImages/NYtoyfair/2015/Toynami/

Edited February 20, 2015 by VF5SS

[RD Blade]

Looks like the lions have necks this time around. Toynami could sell a bunch of those based on that alone.

[David Hingtgen]

If you see pictures of one of the lions sitting down, it's because I asked George Sohn to do that and he thought it was a great idea lol

The big thing he told us is that this Voltron emphasizes the lions as fully featured toys on their own.

That's been my #1 thing since I was like 6. I want a Voltron where the lions don't suck. Having necks is a big part of that. (and being able to sit). Because THIS is the most iconic look for the lions:

No previous toy has come anywhere NEAR being able to capture that look.

[Dangard Ace]

Like David says those sitting lions are cool but this is Toynami. I'll need to see some reviews before I'm willing to sink money into something they make.

The big thing he told us is that this Voltron emphasizes the lions as fully featured toys on their own.

The minute those 3D printed lions have as many eye blinding spring loaded missiles as the original Chogokin GoLion I will consider them fully featured toys and I will pre-order it. God I loved shooting crap with all those missiles, especially the tiny red ones....

[Magnus]

I have to say, it looks incredible. And at 18" it'll be the same size as Hasbro's new Devastator. Triple the price though probably.

Still, i'm gonna get this. It just looks too good, even with Toynami's terrible QC history.

[mark-1s]

My eyes must be decieving me. Necks on a Voltron lion. NECKS!!

[VF5SS]

The minute those 3D printed lions have as many eye blinding spring loaded missiles as the original Chogokin GoLion I will consider them fully featured toys and I will pre-order it. God I loved shooting crap with all those missiles, especially the tiny red ones....

I should have clarified. George Sohn was emphasizing the lions as fully featured action figures and touted how they studied real lions to give the Voltron team a much better range of motion rather than sacrificing their articulation for the combined mode. I'm not sure if they are planning to have shooty gimmicks.

On another note, the guys at the Bluefin Tamashii booth had some intentionally vague things to say about the subject of this thread. Take that for what it's worth but I can't say more because they didn't either.

[VF5SS]

Here's the video from their show room if you want to see more angles.

[eriku]

I want to get excited for this Voltron but I've been burned by Toynami too many times over the last 15 years. Out of the dozens of toys I've bought from them I struggle to think of one that is a really great quality piece. I'm not trying to hate on them, just sharing my experience. I used to defend them constantly. I hope something has changed with their practices and this one turns out good. I wont be a test pilot, though.

[M'Kyuun]

I love their Alpha sculpt, but the materials and quality of their toys just doesn't stand up. If they made vast improvements in both these areas, I'd be willing to shell for more of their products. That new Voltron looks good to me; I never watched the show, but I like a well designed toy, and so far this puts a nice emphasis on the individual Lions, as well as the combined form.

I'm curious whatever happened to Mattel's Voltron Force toys, which were seen at SDCC 2011, IIRC? I thought the cartoon sucked, but I loved the new look of both the individual Lions and Voltron. I never saw it in stores, and there's little info about them on the internet beyond SDCC. I was looking forward to making that my first Voltron. I'm guessing the show tanked, and the toy prospects followed suit. Tis a shame that marketability of a show and its related toys hinge on the success of both seemingly in equal parts. They are separate entities to me, as far as my spending habits go, but I guess I'm the exception rather than the rule. the same fate killed the Thundercats reboot a few years ago. Loved the show, but didn't really care about the toys. The toys didn't sell well, and the show got yanked. Again, it's a shame the show couldn't stand on its own merit.

[JetJockey]

its also IMO modernized take on voltron so purists may balk.

That was my first thought. It doesn't look like what I grew up with. It is a nice try though.

On another note, the guys at the Bluefin Tamashii booth had some intentionally vague things to say about the subject of this thread. Take that for what it's worth but I can't say more because they didn't either.

Hmm. I had to look them up. I hope they try to make accurate lions.

[jenius]

Can the lions move their legs out in an A stance? It looks like some of them have a little of that going on.

[Magnus]

Holy god, I have to say that that is the best looking Voltron that I have ever seen. It makes Mad Toys's Golion look like junk!

I just wish it wasn't a Toynami product - you just know that the QC is going to be horrible. Still, it looks so good that I may take the plunge sight unseen....

[VF5SS]

Can the lions move their legs out in an A stance? It looks like some of them have a little of that going on.

Yeah George pointed out their haunches unlock so they can angle their legs outward. They snap back in place for limb mode.

[dapro]

What is the best Voltron right now if you want one? The Mad Toys king of beasts?

[Gakken85]

I think so.

I wouldn't trust Toynami as far as I could throw em when it comes to build quality.

[Silverstreak]

Can the lions move their legs out in an A stance? It looks like some of them have a little of that going on.

I was hugely disappointed that KOB couldn't do this. For some reason I just assumed they could so imagine my disappointment when I opened it

[myk]

What is the best Voltron right now if you want one? The Mad Toys king of beasts?

Not sure if that one counts though, since I'm pretty sure they're not being sold anymore due to legal issues...

[Gakken85]

You can still get them. Just gotta email the right people.

[Renato]

The Facebook page of "Let's Voltron: The Official Voltron Podcast" has called upon the fans to submit questions for Tommy Yune and the artist of the crossover comic to answer when they guest on the show in a couple of days. You know what to do.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Renato

[JetJockey]

What is the best Voltron right now if you want one? The Mad Toys king of beasts?

I would get one of the original Japanese versions. I think there are bootlegs out there. But a quick eBay search and they go for a lot. Both the Japanese and American versions. I still have my American version.

After that I would say get the recent Toynami anniversary one with the lights, sounds, and key. But I personally don’t want to give any of my money to Toynami. Their Voltron still isn’t perfect after multiple tries. And they passed or just didn’t want to fund the development of that Beagle Rook cyclone / ride armor prototype.

[JetJockey]

I think Toynami has yet another Voltron coming out. It looks like they tried to make the neck area. It still isn't anime accurate though.

Also Sideshow Collectibles previewed a modern Voltron statue at comic con. I have a feeling it will be $800+ when released. Too much for me and for it not to be show accurate. I'll dig up the pictures I saved in case anyone missed it.

[Dobber]

I posted pictures of it already in the SDCC 2015 thread....but it was quickly ignored.

Chris

[Old_Nash]

I posted pictures of it already in the SDCC 2015 thread....but it was quickly ignored.

Chris

Something about Voltron Force?

Edited July 22, 2015 by Old_Nash