Anyone Seen Spelberg's New Movie Yet?

[hirohawa]

Spoiler:

Daniel Craig looks like he wandered off of a 70's porn shoot throughout the film.

[Mr March]

I don't want to sidetrack all that's be said, but I think I can help answer the most pertinent question asked by most in this thread.

The subtext of the film Munich is violence begets violence. That's the message, wrapped up in a historical retelling which Spielberg happens to think fits such a theme.

As for the rest, I can tell you that all film is simply a visual medium for communicating the personal views of the creator to the audience. Viewing ANY film with the expectation the creator's perception of the world will be non-biased, neutral, or absent is the antithesis of dramatic storytelling/writing.

Should one feel opposed to the personal views of a given filmmaker and find themselves unable to seperate their distaste for the creator's opinions from the end product, obviously the quality of the film is irrelevant. Best to simply avoid films by that director and support films that showcase other views.

[bsu legato]

Spoiler:

Daniel Craig looks like he wandered off of a 70's porn shoot throughout the film.

355804[/snapback]

Funny thing....considering which decade the movie takes place in.

[Guppy]

I haven't seen the movie yet but I read the book and saw the doco of One Day In September which I loved. So this movie has a lot to live up to.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

I haven't seen the movie yet but I read the book and saw the doco of One Day In September which I loved. So this movie has a lot to live up to.

356101[/snapback]

Nothing shy of a Ken Burns doc can beat One Day in September.

[Shmitty]

The subtext of the film Munich is violence begets violence.  That's the message, wrapped up in a historical retelling which Spielberg happens to think fits such a theme.

355813[/snapback]

I just saw it tonight, I that is what I walked away from it thinking. He shows that on both sides there are people. People who do what they believe in. Some try to retain their humanity through questioning their own actions, while others follow their leaders blindly. Both act violently towards each other, and are amazed by what the other does in retaliation.

Edited December 30, 2005 by Shmitty

[Major Johnathan]

Can't say I like some of the opinions made. It sounds like typical moral equivilancy. 'One man's terrorist is another's Freedom Fighter'. Or Bin Laden is just the Muslim's George Washington. Or; we did bad stuff in our past so anything we get now serves us right. So let's all just hold hands and leap off the nearest tall building to atone.

Sometimes, a terrorist is just a terrorist. No justification makes their acts justifiable. No grievance makes it right.

The slaughter of Israeli athletes was pure cowardice and coldblooded muder. Let's not forget to give Germany it's credit too, they cut deals with every Islamic terrorist group they encounter. They let them go then and they're letting more go today.

Every kind of people on Earth have grievances with other peoples. But the countless muslim terror groups are quite unique in having grievances with absoultely everyone who isn't one of them. Everywhere Islam rubs against another culture, terrorism or war break out. Anywhere there are Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and 'Godless Nonbelievers'. North Africa, Central Africa, Middle East, Central Asia, Eastern Europe, Southern Europe, South Asia, South East Asia. Having recently targeted Australia, only Antactica has yet to offend Islam. Antartica better watch it's self.

Let's not forget the lowliest of them all, Shia.. Or wait, are the Sunni the lowest? In other words, even fellow Muslims who don't believe the 'right way' are worthy of merciless Jihad.

I know it's politically incorrect to call a spade a spade, but there it is. I long ago quit wondering or worrying why Muslim terror groups do what they do. I only care that they die. Any sympathy I could ever muster for the cause of Palestine vanished on 9/11 when they chose to spontaneously celebrate in the streets. The feelings quite mutual now.

What's next, a movie about the misunderstood freedom fighters who slaughtered hundreds of schoolchildren in Beslan? Yes, they were a noble lot, I really sympathize with the plight of Chenya now.

Imagine if in the middle of WWII we had famous directors making movies about how we needed to see the Nazi's point of view or how the Imperial Japanese had good reason to be as brutal as they were.

[Nied]

Might as well get this in before the thread is locked.

God I am so sick of ignorant SOBs who get their panties in a twist because someone dares to try to make a realistic assessment or portrayal of a terrorist. Guess what? A terrorist is a human being, they've got needs and wants and grievances just like anyone else. They may go about addressing those grievances in a despicable manner, but to act like their some kind of non-people who can think of nothing but how much they hate freedom is a childish fantasy. What's worse is that taking that kind of attitude makes impossible to actually defeat the type of poisonous ideology that causes terrorism in the first place (weather it's being done by Islamic fundamentalists, Christian Fundamentalists or some kind of radical nationalist group).

Edited December 30, 2005 by Nied

[JsARCLIGHT]

To get this back on track... hopefully... I've been talked into going to see it today. I'm taking some of my worker bees to a movie this afternoon rather than work (hey, nobody else seems to be at work today). I still do not really want to see this movie but everyone else wants to see it. I'll have to see what their thoughts are on it on the car ride back to the office.

[Guest Bromgrev]

I'm taking some of my worker bees to a movie this afternoon rather than work (hey, nobody else seems to be at work today).

356274[/snapback]

Can I come work for you?

[Noyhauser]

Can't say I like some of the opinions made. It sounds like typical moral equivilancy. 'One man's terrorist is another's Freedom Fighter'. Or Bin Laden is just the Muslim's George Washington. Or; we did bad stuff in our past so anything we get now serves us right. So let's all just hold hands and leap off the nearest tall building to atone.

  Sometimes, a terrorist is just a terrorist. No justification makes their acts justifiable. No grievance makes it right.

  The slaughter of Israeli athletes was pure cowardice and coldblooded muder. Let's not forget to give Germany it's credit too, they cut deals with every Islamic terrorist group they encounter. They let them go then and they're letting more go today.

  Every kind of people on Earth have grievances with other peoples. But the countless muslim terror groups are quite unique in having grievances with absoultely everyone who isn't one of them. Everywhere Islam rubs against another culture, terrorism or war break out. Anywhere there are Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and 'Godless Nonbelievers'.  North Africa, Central Africa, Middle East, Central Asia, Eastern Europe, Southern Europe, South Asia, South East Asia. Having recently targeted Australia, only Antactica has yet to offend Islam. Antartica better watch it's self.

Let's not forget the lowliest of them all, Shia.. Or wait, are the Sunni the lowest?   In other words, even fellow Muslims who don't believe the 'right way' are worthy of merciless Jihad.

  I know it's politically incorrect to call a spade a spade, but there it is. I long ago quit wondering or worrying why Muslim terror groups do what they do. I only care that they die. Any sympathy I could ever muster for the cause of Palestine vanished on 9/11 when they chose to spontaneously celebrate in the streets. The feelings quite mutual now.

  What's next, a movie about the misunderstood freedom fighters who slaughtered hundreds of schoolchildren in Beslan? Yes, they were a noble lot, I really sympathize with the plight of Chenya now.

  Imagine if in the middle of WWII we had famous directors making movies about how we needed to see the Nazi's point of view or how the Imperial Japanese had good reason to be as brutal as they were.

356157[/snapback]

Well I might as well get my two cents in before this gets locked.

The problem with your "assessment" is that you completely ignore the link between terrorism and societies. People who are terrorists, they're essentially too far gone to be reasoned with. Military means are all we have to deal with them. I'm by no means a dove, or ignorant about the need for military force to deal with these people. However they in some part are radical reflection of the sentiments held by a society (or a part of it). Without a base, radicalism will not survive. People don't go out to become terrorists because they are mentally insane. Almost universally, credible psychological studies of terrorists show that they are all rational human beings devoid of neurosis or psychological disorders. They don't carry out violence because of a love of it, or moral collapse, its because they feel that they have no other way to achieve the situation they believe they are entitled to.

If a society feels that they are persecuted or under attack, more people will be willing to carry out terrorism because they feel that traditional means political participation (peaceful political movements ect), are insufficient to meet their needs. Many of the policies of the west although effective in attacking terrorists themselves, only inflame sentiments in muslim world.

And it doesn't matter if in the nuances that we didn't intend to do something. Accidentally killing civillians using a precision guided munition, or isolated torture are only viewed through blood red tint by people who already have a skeptical view of the west... and thats a lot of people in the middle east. You can't just "destroy everybody," without addressing the grievances that underlie the terrorist groups. That doesn't mean we have to give them what they want, but we must keep in mind why they are doing what they are doing, and try to do something about it. Most of the time, its something we would consider as absolutely basic in our society, freedom, economic propserity, ect. But in some cases, we can't deal with them, as in Al Qaeda, however we may be able to remove the base for these groups support.

The Israeli has killed thousands of Hamas fighters, eliminated its leadership many times over, and yet the group is now stronger than ever. If we don't understand link between societies and terrorist groups, we're doomed to lose in the end.

(edited with some minor tweaks)

Edited December 30, 2005 by Noyhauser

[Noyhauser]

To get this back on track... hopefully... I've been talked into going to see it today. I'm taking some of my worker bees to a movie this afternoon rather than work (hey, nobody else seems to be at work today). I still do not really want to see this movie but everyone else wants to see it. I'll have to see what their thoughts are on it on the car ride back to the office.

356274[/snapback]

One night in september is on tonight, so I'm going to watch it. I think I'll try to go see Munich on New Years Day.

[EXO]

Well might as well get this in before it gets locked.

All you people that try to sneak in this political bullshit are idiots. When are you gonna learn that religion and politics is not allowed here. I started this thread to ask about the movie's entertainment value. But instead you try to sound smart and vomit all this crap. But seriously... it just proves how idiotic you all are.

dumbasses.

[Noyhauser]

Well might as well get this in before it gets locked.

All you people that try to sneak in this political bullshit are idiots.  When are you gonna learn that religion and politics is not allowed here.  I started this thread to ask about the movie's entertainment value.  But instead you try to sound smart and vomit all this crap.  But seriously... it just proves how idiotic you all are.

dumbasses.

356295[/snapback]

Sorry! I can't help myself, especially when its part of my living. You're right though, discussing politics on an anime message board = pointless, and thats why I didn't post on it earlier.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Well we just got back from seeing it... and I have no clue what to say, other than that I really, really did not like this movie. I don't know what I was expecting from it but just the execution of the movie... the way Spielburg shot and scripted the scenes, did not sit well with me.

The dialogue seemed overly stilted, like it was trying so hard to make a point with every line. Most of the characters, no matter how "humanized" they where made, I found to be very unlikable... or at least I didn't care for very many of them. At it's core, I think that is where the movie failed for me... I just didn't care about any of the characters.

As for my fears of this movie "writing history" for some people I still think that can be true. Without giving away spoilers a lot of scenes where just a tad too "staged", if you catch my drift. The movie just smacks of effort in the whole "paint the picture I want you to see rather than the picture of what most likely really happened"... the whole thing feels very, very fake to me.

But all that is just my opinion. The guys I went to see it with felt the same way with some scenes and characters but they had the opinions of others in this thread. I guess I was right to a degree when I thought that people can and will take very different things away from this movie.

My verdict on it (all opinion of course) is that the movie is very "Spielburg", very stilted and smacks of effort in making it's points. Subtle is a word unknown in this script, or at least it seemed that way to me. The pace is quite slow and plodding and the historical accuracy, whatever it may be in reality, just feels very off watching it on the screen. I also did not care for the final shot's connotation... but I'll avoid that argument on the grounds that it will reignite the bad sides of this thread.

All in all, IMHO if you enjoy talky, slow, heavy-handed movies in which you never connect with the characters... go see it.

[Major Johnathan]

Well might as well get this in before it gets locked.

All you people that try to sneak in this political bullshit are idiots.  When are you gonna learn that religion and politics is not allowed here.  I started this thread to ask about the movie's entertainment value.  But instead you try to sound smart and vomit all this crap.  But seriously... it just proves how idiotic you all are.

dumbasses.

356295[/snapback]

Who's the dumbass, the dumbass that responds to a political thread or the dumbass who starts a thread about a movie that is all about politics/terrorism?(and expects politics NOT to be brought up?)

For the record, I threw my two cents in well after a bunch of other opinions were offered. Now if politics aren't allowed, fine. But if a thread like this is going to go on for a while, I figure I have every right to speak up.

[Nied]

Well might as well get this in before it gets locked.

All you people that try to sneak in this political bullshit are idiots.  When are you gonna learn that religion and politics is not allowed here.  I started this thread to ask about the movie's entertainment value.  But instead you try to sound smart and vomit all this crap.  But seriously... it just proves how idiotic you all are.

dumbasses.

356295[/snapback]

I'm going to join Noyhauser in apologising. I generally refrain from posting this stuff here unless someone else starts, but I'm not one to tolerate ignorance.

[EXO]

Well might as well get this in before it gets locked.

All you people that try to sneak in this political bullshit are idiots.  When are you gonna learn that religion and politics is not allowed here.  I started this thread to ask about the movie's entertainment value.  But instead you try to sound smart and vomit all this crap.  But seriously... it just proves how idiotic you all are.

dumbasses.

356295[/snapback]

Who's the dumbass, the dumbass that responds to a political thread or the dumbass who starts a thread about a movie that is all about politics/terrorism?(and expects politics NOT to be brought up?)

For the record, I threw my two cents in well after a bunch of other opinions were offered. Now if politics aren't allowed, fine. But if a thread like this is going to go on for a while, I figure I have every right to speak up.

356344[/snapback]

Look at JsArclight's reply and look at yours. But I guess you know who I'm talking to by your reply.

And yes.. I expect politics not to be brought up. Why do you think I made Spielberg the title of the thread? And no, you don't have the right to speak up just like the others before you. Keep your political BS off the boards. Talk about the movie as a movie, not to get on your high horse.

[kalvasflam]

Hmmm, a lot of nice flak going on here.

Moving into the movie, my understanding is that it's a fiction of what happened in reality. In terms of the terrorist and other stuff.... my two cents:

How wonderful, it's society's fault that we have serial rapists, mass murderers, or "freedom fighters" I agree that they might be sane and even think there is good justification for what they do. But then, you could come up with a good reason to convince little kiddies to strap on some plastic and blow up other little kiddies in their neighborhood. Why? Because the person involved thinks there is no other way to solve his problem. It's wonderful to understand your enemy, but in the end, it works just as well if they're simply all dead.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

All I have to say is this. Its comforting to say that Osama and his ilk are insane. Its comforting to say that Eichmann and his SS were out of their minds. Its comforting to say that Stalin's NKVD and KGB were lunatics. Whats scarier is that they were completely sane and knew what they were doing. they did them knowing they were evil. I think Spielberg shows that the terrorists were sane and knew that they were killing innocent people, but did it anyway, and had no remorse. The difference between them, the bad guys and us the good guys was that our side felt genuine remorse. I thought the film was excellent, although the screenwriters and director knew no more than anyone else about this since the Mossad doesn't tell people how its ops went down. Spielberg's telling of Operation: Wraith of God is in the same vein as Ridley Scott's telling of the events in Mogadishu in Black Hawk Down. If you listen to the commentary track on the SE DVD, Eversman says the movie gets it really wrong in a lot of places.

[Major Johnathan]

  A terrorist is a human being, they've got needs and wants and grievances just like anyone else.  (weather it's being done by Islamic fundamentalists, Christian Fundamentalists or some kind of radical nationalist group).

356262[/snapback]

A serial killer is a human being too. A terrorist is a serial killer hiding behind a bullsh*t cause to justify their bloodlust. We all have grievanaces, we don't all kill randomly and gleefully to redress them. I find it amazing anyone would give a damn about such people's wants,needs or grievances.

Comparing Christian fundamentalists with Muslim fundamentalists is pretty ridiculous, if we're talking present day. Look out for the Billy Graham Martyr's Brigade! Put up a score board for the just the past 20 years and compare the number of buses, malls, cafes, schools, airliners, embassys, skyscapers, polling stations, hospitals, churchs,synagogues, Mosques (yes Mosques too) and otherwise innocent pedestrians just walking by that have been blown up, attacked, hijacked kidnapped and or murdered. I think Muslims win that by a land slide. But that's ignorant of me to say. True, but ignorant.

[Graham]

I'm gonna leave this thread open for now, although I can't speak for the Mods.

As much as I'd personally like to comment on terrorism, I don't really want to break the no politics and no religious discussion rule on this forum.

I will however say that out of all the posters so far in this thread, my personal views would most closely follow Major Jonathan's first post on page 3 of this thread.

Based on what I've heard so far I doubt I will bother seeing this film. Not really a fan of any of Spilberg's recent movies anyway.

Graham

[EXO]

I wish this thread WOULD get locked already. I don't get why some people make the point to make it political. Some posts are not even about the movie. People just have the need to make their voice sound important.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Spielberg's telling of Operation: Wraith of God is in the same vein as Ridley Scott's telling of the events in Mogadishu in Black Hawk Down. If you listen to the commentary track on the SE DVD, Eversman says the movie gets it really wrong in a lot of places.

356376[/snapback]

That is a very salient point about Blackhawk Down. It is another movie based on a book that had only one source and is rife with "historical errors" but almost all the viewers who see it take it as gospel and believe that that is exactly how the situation went down. My whole point all this time was not really about the movie itself but the dangers of making a drama about real world events and viewers believing that is exactly how things happened. We are smart people who know better but a good deal of people are not... they believe everything they see on the screen. If I had a dollar for every person I've talked to who gets their facts from movies I'd be a billionare.

There where many scenes in the movie that where brutal, brutal and "dangerous" to show in my mind. Spielburg and his scriptwriters took a few angles on things that I personally found to be in poor taste... mostly because stupid people will see those scenes and think that is how it happened and that will affect their feelings on other matters.

As for the whole subtext of this thread all I can say is that in a time of "war" it is a necessary evil to dehumanize your enemy. It's very hard to pursue and kill a human but it is easy to hunt down and kill a monster. I will say that Munich took that ball and ran with it well (even if I feel it shoved that thought down my throat a tad too energetically). It is easy to see murderers as monsters, even though they maintain the same feelings and humanity as you... we laud the person who kills the killers. It has always been morally questionable to kill a killer but when it comes to punishment what is there to take from someone who has nothing? And more specifically what is there to take from someone as a punishment that will properly punish them for such a heinous crime as murder? Everyone has their own opinion on this... and I have found that people who's noses are not bloodied tend to favor leniency while those who are still wiping the blood from their face favor the code of hammurabi.

The other topic that Munich really kept pounding on for me (and possibly others) is the strategem of the two sides... one side favors one single, quick and flashy op that gets their name out there and does severe damage while the other side favors the long game, the drawn out precise surgical operations that make no headlines and dissapear into the night. You could say that the two sides have to play this way due to their standing the world, one has to maintain dignity while the other has no dignitiy to loose and everything to gain.

[kalvasflam]

Spielberg's telling of Operation: Wraith of God is in the same vein as Ridley Scott's telling of the events in Mogadishu in Black Hawk Down. If you listen to the commentary track on the SE DVD, Eversman says the movie gets it really wrong in a lot of places.

356376[/snapback]

It's harder to compare the aftermath of Munich with Blackhawk Down. With Blackhawk Down, the movie was in fact rife with inaccuracies, you would think why would they send in two snipers just to save a pilot, the numbers don't add up. But in real life, all four of the crew survived. The characters were in the wrong places, and the Delta guys were a mishmash of people. With all the information they had in real life, the movie was still wrong. Imagine, how much more fictitious the events after Munich would've been since the Israelis aren't the most talkative, and the other side are all dead.

But even after saying that, I will watch the movie, no movie will ever be as compelling as real life, it should be fun to watch though. Just like Blackhawk Down was fun to watch.

[Mr March]

I'm gonna leave this thread open for now, although I can't speak for the Mods.

*snip*

356432[/snapback]

So, does that mean it's open season for a political/ideological debate in this thread? Speaking as someone who would love to join in such a debate but hasn't out of respect for the rules and EXO, who is following the rules and suffering for it. I have to say I'm getting a mixed message here.

[KingNor]

you can't take movies as portraying fact.

movies are entertainment. giving them the credibility they dont' deserve only inflates the egos of aloof movie directors who already operate so far outside the real world is amazing they can tell any storys that normal people can relate too.

munich was a decent movie in my opinion, raised some questions and got me thinking. i'd never asume what happend in that movie is a fact.

what a movie like this should do is get you intrested, then you should go look into what it's portraying and research the real events.

you have to remember that the actions these characters take in a movie can be just as artificial as them having a dramatic soundtrack, everything is there to make it intresting, or to get the productions views across. reality is always an afterthought in movies no mater what they say.

:-O ok i'm done, :-P

[JsARCLIGHT]

you can't take movies as portraying fact. 

356474[/snapback]

No, you can't... but smart people know that. Stupid people don't. When I say "stupid people" I'm not trying to insult anyone I'm just saying that a lot of people out there that watch a movie like Munich, or Blackhawk Down, or Saving Private Ryan, or Patriot Games and they instantly think that is an honest representation of how things work and how things go down. More people get their history, politics and views on the world through entertainment than anything else. A while back someone came out and said that more people in certain demographics get their news from The Daily Show rather than real news outlets. Smart people know to look into the matters behind the fiction they watch so they can know the truth, but the great majority of people don't. How many times have you watched a movie, fully believing everything you saw on screen, and then doing a little research afterwards to discover everything you just saw was totally made up? The sad fact is a lot of people are lazy and won't do that research... they want to be entertained before being educated. In all honesty, how many people went out and did reserach on the Mogadishu raid after watching Blackhawk Down? How many people went and looked into the whole "Landing Zone X-Ray" battle after the movie We Where Soldiers? My guess is very few... most just watched the movie and said "wow so that is how it happened". That sentence that I hear from so many people these days that grates my nerves, "wow that is how it was/happened/went down/came about".

With the lines between truth and entertainment constantly blurred in people's minds movies like this one create a lot of havok. I know almost to a T that in the near future I will be talking with people about this subject at a party or other sort of thing and some numbskull will be using this movie as his historical basis. I've had it happen with BHD and this movie is rife for the same.

Yes this movie is entertainment, yes it is meant to just get a dialogue going... but all that depends on intelligent people seeing the movie and taking the right steps afterwards. There are a lot of people out there who will exit that theater and file the movie away as fact in their brains subconsiously, doing to followup at all and it will affect how they feel and react to things in the future. I find that just scary.

[EXO]

you can't take movies as portraying fact. 

356474[/snapback]

Yes this movie is entertainment, yes it is meant to just get a dialogue going... but all that depends on intelligent people seeing the movie and taking the right steps afterwards. There are a lot of people out there who will exit that theater and file the movie away as fact in their brains subconsiously, doing to followup at all and it will affect how they feel and react to things in the future. I find that just scary.

356481[/snapback]

Thats why I'm so harsh on this movie. It simply isn't a good drama or anything the reviews said it was. Brutal, suspensful nor thrilling.

A good example of a good drama would be Finding Neverland. I read up on the real story behind it and frankly it was really screwed up. J.M Barrie sounds like a loon in real life but they managed to get a good screenplay from the source material. If this movie (Munich) wasn't based on a historic event I think people would truly see how boring it is. IMO. I'm suprised IA liked it, we usually agree on movies.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

  A terrorist is a human being, they've got needs and wants and grievances just like anyone else.  (weather it's being done by Islamic fundamentalists, Christian Fundamentalists or some kind of radical nationalist group).

356262[/snapback]

A serial killer is a human being too. A terrorist is a serial killer hiding behind a bullsh*t cause to justify their bloodlust. We all have grievanaces, we don't all kill randomly and gleefully to redress them. I find it amazing anyone would give a damn about such people's wants,needs or grievances.

Comparing Christian fundamentalists with Muslim fundamentalists is pretty ridiculous, if we're talking present day. Look out for the Billy Graham Martyr's Brigade! Put up a score board for the just the past 20 years and compare the number of buses, malls, cafes, schools, airliners, embassys, skyscapers, polling stations, hospitals, churchs,synagogues, Mosques (yes Mosques too) and otherwise innocent pedestrians just walking by that have been blown up, attacked, hijacked kidnapped and or murdered. I think Muslims win that by a land slide. But that's ignorant of me to say. True, but ignorant.

356426[/snapback]

The Klu Klux Klan, a radical christian group, has killed more Americans than Al Queda. Its True.

[Nied]

  A terrorist is a human being, they've got needs and wants and grievances just like anyone else.  (weather it's being done by Islamic fundamentalists, Christian Fundamentalists or some kind of radical nationalist group).

356262[/snapback]

A serial killer is a human being too. A terrorist is a serial killer hiding behind a bullsh*t cause to justify their bloodlust. We all have grievanaces, we don't all kill randomly and gleefully to redress them. I find it amazing anyone would give a damn about such people's wants,needs or grievances.

Comparing Christian fundamentalists with Muslim fundamentalists is pretty ridiculous, if we're talking present day. Look out for the Billy Graham Martyr's Brigade! Put up a score board for the just the past 20 years and compare the number of buses, malls, cafes, schools, airliners, embassys, skyscapers, polling stations, hospitals, churchs,synagogues, Mosques (yes Mosques too) and otherwise innocent pedestrians just walking by that have been blown up, attacked, hijacked kidnapped and or murdered. I think Muslims win that by a land slide. But that's ignorant of me to say. True, but ignorant.

356426[/snapback]

You know I was going to respond to this, but I'm done. This isn't the place for it.

[EXO]

  A terrorist is a human being, they've got needs and wants and grievances just like anyone else.  (weather it's being done by Islamic fundamentalists, Christian Fundamentalists or some kind of radical nationalist group).

356262[/snapback]

A serial killer is a human being too. A terrorist is a serial killer hiding behind a bullsh*t cause to justify their bloodlust. We all have grievanaces, we don't all kill randomly and gleefully to redress them. I find it amazing anyone would give a damn about such people's wants,needs or grievances.

Comparing Christian fundamentalists with Muslim fundamentalists is pretty ridiculous, if we're talking present day. Look out for the Billy Graham Martyr's Brigade! Put up a score board for the just the past 20 years and compare the number of buses, malls, cafes, schools, airliners, embassys, skyscapers, polling stations, hospitals, churchs,synagogues, Mosques (yes Mosques too) and otherwise innocent pedestrians just walking by that have been blown up, attacked, hijacked kidnapped and or murdered. I think Muslims win that by a land slide. But that's ignorant of me to say. True, but ignorant.

356426[/snapback]

The Klu Klux Klan, a radical christian group, has killed more Americans than Al Queda. Its True.

356510[/snapback]

ok... seriously, at this point what the hell does that got to do with Spielberg and the movie? You guys are really proving my point about being dumbasses. Hooray to MW.

[Noyhauser]

you can't take movies as portraying fact. 

356474[/snapback]

Yes this movie is entertainment, yes it is meant to just get a dialogue going... but all that depends on intelligent people seeing the movie and taking the right steps afterwards. There are a lot of people out there who will exit that theater and file the movie away as fact in their brains subconsiously, doing to followup at all and it will affect how they feel and react to things in the future. I find that just scary.

356481[/snapback]

Thats why I'm so harsh on this movie. It simply isn't a good drama or anything the reviews said it was. Brutal, suspensful nor thrilling.

A good example of a good drama would be Finding Neverland. I read up on the real story behind it and frankly it was really screwed up. J.M Barrie sounds like a loon in real life but they managed to get a good screenplay from the source material. If this movie (Munich) wasn't based on a historic event I think people would truly see how boring it is. IMO. I'm suprised IA liked it, we usually agree on movies.

356507[/snapback]

Actually I'd agree with that, I thought Finding Neverland was a good movie adaptation, even if It was completely untrue. I liked it, as did my GF at the time.

[Graham]

OK, time to lock this thread. I was going to allow it to stay open as long as the discussion stuck to reviewing the movie only, but I guess with a movie like this which is a fictionalised account of real-world events, it's too tricky keeping politics out of the discussion.

Graham