Called Turn-a Gundam

[F-ZeroOne]

I've recently had the opportunity to see some Turn-A Gundam. Like a lot of other mecha fans, my main experience with the series up to this point was with the mecha designs, which I'm sure many of you remember were something of a... surprise. (in other words, we all thought Tomino had lost his marbles. Big time).

Its therefore been something of a shock to discover that the series is actually really rather good. Everything you expect to be a minus is in fact a big plus - the 1930s setting, for example, and even the much derided mecha designs actually work, once you see them in action. Its got a nice setting, an interesting story and very good character design and personalities. Tomino even displays a lightly humourous touch he hasn't always had (ZZ Gundam, anyone?).

Theres also a couple of extremely effective scenes on the effects of war which are almost up there in terms of impact with Gundam 0080.

Theres some minuses - Tomino always seems to be in rather a hurry, and doesn't like to explain things too much, and theres a couple of rather big plot coincidences one has to swallow, but overall nothing that completely wrecks anything.

Oh, did I mention music by (kneel and worship at her feet, puny mortals!) Yoko Kanno? It goes without saying that Turn-A has very good music.

Its interesting to compare Turn-A with the series that followed it - SEED and SEED Destiny. I think one can sum it up by saying that the difference between the shows is the same difference between how Tomino views Gundam and how Bandai views Gundam.

SEED is an attractive, well made show thats been commerically pretty successful for Bandai. However, its a little like driving down an expressway - fast, efficent, does exactly what you want, but its also a little souless.

Turn-A on the other hand, is the road less travelled - difficult, slower and doesn't always go the way you expect. But the views are by far the more interesting. Turn-A is something I didn't think anyone could make anymore - a non-commercial Gundam.

For those of you that have seen it, thoughts? (though please bear in mind I'm only up to about episode 23...!)

For those of you that haven't - if you can find a source, give Turn-A a try - you might be in for a pleasant surprise!

Edit: PS: I know its a large "A" in the title. I swear it was correct when I typed it!

Edited December 19, 2005 by F-ZeroOne

[Hikuro]

I think the way Tomino planned it was so that you could think on your own of the story to Turn A.

You could take EVERY SINGLE Gundam series and write it off as actually being part of the same universe.

For instance, you have the events in the UC series, then something happens and humanity starts from the stone age again, after thousands of years humanity goes to the AfterWar era, once again something happens and humanity is knocked back, we then have After Colony, humanity thinks they finally achieved peace, something happens and humanity is messed up again, then you could go to the Correct Century which is what Turn A's universe is, and see that it's in the 2000's so humanity had a large down fall cause of the Turn A and Turn X.

Which was the Black Past or Dark History. Hence why you see Zaku's in the series.

People had fits about the series cause the Turn A only had minor references to the Gundam legacy, such as its colors, and power. While the Turn X carried ZERO references other than the Psycomu system.

What was shocking to some is that Tomino is well known for character killing, and really he didn't do as much as what he did with Zeta or other shows.

Also the style of mobile suits was either taken as unique or plain ugly, but there were many fans of the SUMO mobile suits because those were for the Ace pilots.

I can't remember if it was actually claimed or not, but I believe some of the reasons you didn't see so many mobile suits cause from what I understand, neither side could rightfully reproduce mobile suits accordingly, the moon had a huge technological advantage but the mobile suits they found were buried on the moon just as mobile suits as Earth.

I got the entire Turn A series and movies I actually like the series despite the fact it took me well over 2 years to collect the series.

[Fort Max]

I actually like Seed but I fully agree that Turn A Gundam is probably the best the franchise has to offer. It's the difference inherrent in the artistic style that makes this show what it is and it shouldn't really be compared to the other series as it's not fair on them.

[Jolly Rogers]

Tomino even displays a lightly humourous touch he hasn't always had (ZZ Gundam, anyone?).

353646[/snapback]

That's because Tomino was pretty much absent during the first half of ZZ because he was busy with the Char's Counterattack film production. It wasn't until he came back onboard for the last half of ZZ did the tone became more serious again.

[Magnus]

Turn A is really one of the best, if not the best, Gundam series around. Like you, I was horrified when I first saw the designs of the MS's, especially the moustached Turn A. But they did grow on me - although if I could re-edit the series i'd place the classic Gundam's head on the body of the Turn A - I still just hate the face (even Katoki's FIX re-imagination is better than Myd's design I think).

Anyway, it's some great, great sci-fi. If you can get past the designs, you're in for a real treat.

[Gui]

Definitely the greatest Gundam show for me as well as the best Science-fiction anime I've ever seen for now. I strongly recommend it to everyone who thinks that SF is a 'simple' thing for 'simple' minds, or even to people who dislike Gundam as a whole: it is the best Gundam and not a Gundam show in the same time, something like being more than the sum of its part...

I'm currently writing a review of Turn A for the french-speaking site Animeka and I really take my time to gather all infos needed to make a long and informative docu: therefore you'll understand easily that I can't summarize everything in a single board post

Everything is deep in this series: the designs, the characters, the settings, the music (God, Kanno ownz so much: I listened the OSTs all the day during a pair of weeks and ordered the complete set from Amazon Japan last week...), the plot,... simply everything claims masterpiece. And there's several winks to the whole Science-Fiction culture, such as the WaDOM in these XIX/XXth centuries towns which look like martian tripods from War of the Worlds or the inhabitants of the Moon which made me think to Cyrano de Bergerac's L'Autre Monde ou Les Etats et Empires de la Lune in the same way than Swift's Gulliver inspired Miyazaki for the Castle in the Sky. Even the costumes of some lunarians look like being influenced by Winsor McCay's Little Nemo in Slumberland... This show proves once again that all cultures win in being mixed together, in a similar way than SDF did in its time by the way. It's some sort of melting pot of the most classic references in terms of imaginary: in the end, Turn A looks like a fairy tale somehow

But Tomino doesn't forget the basis of his own universe. For example, the relationship between Kihel Heim and Dianna Sorriel looks like one achievement of the newtype concept. The Moon Queen herself continues the matriarchy concept of Victory while looking like Bera Ronah from F-91 in the sense that she knows well common people in order to lead them correctly: she's the perfect queen who makes democracy unnecessary. And great character development all along the story, Sochie and Corin come to mind but there's more, and all this doesn't make for gratuitous action scenes either: in this way, Turn A is a great mix of shoujo and shonen IMO...

I also loved how CG was subtle and discreet, yet very effective, again in a Miyazaki-esque way

In two words: watch it!

People had fits about the series cause the Turn A only had minor references to the Gundam legacy, such as its colors, and power.  While the Turn X carried ZERO references other than the Psycomu system.

353649[/snapback]

It reminded me of the MSN-02 ZeonG personnally, dunno exactly why, probably because of its big gun into the right arm and the fact that it can separate into several parts But hush, some watchers didn't reach this part yet...

[mikeszekely]

I don't know if I'd say it's the best, per se. I mean, to mean, the story of Gundam is Gundam-Z Gundam-Gundam ZZ-Char's Counterattack. Taken as one entity, without the OVAs or that later UC stuff like F-91 and Victory, and that's my favorite.

My second favorite is Turn A, though. The fact that you look at the mecha without seeing the series and are so put off, then you actually watch the series and see how truly amazing it is, makes it stand out all the more.

Comparing it to SEED is like comparing Schindler's List with Pokemon. One's a powerful, moving, classic piece of art, and the other is flashy, colorful, and made to sell toys.

[F-ZeroOne]

Mikeszekely - thats perhaps a touch stronger than I would have put it (Ouch! ), but I think it does sum it up quite well. In the short term, Gundam SEED is probably going to be quite healthy for Gundam, but in the long term I think I know which is going to, er, "Turn", out to be more important... I think I read somewhere that even Japanese fans are beginning to re-evaluate the series.

Edit: Gui: I can't believe I missed the "tripod" look of the WaDoms; I love the War of the Worlds book and often think of H.G. Wells as being sort of the grandfather of mecha shows (if only he'd realised that giving the humans their own big robot would have been much more marketable than bacteria... )

Edited December 20, 2005 by F-ZeroOne

[mikeszekely]

Mikeszekely - thats perhaps a touch stronger than I would have put it (Ouch! laugh.gif ), but I think it does sum it up quite well. In the short term, Gundam SEED is probably going to be quite healthy for Gundam, but in the long term I think I know which is going to, er, "Turn", out to be more important... I think I read somewhere that even Japanese fans are beginning to re-evaluate the series.

I'm not saying that SEED isn't without it's merits. There's a reason why Pokemon to this day brings in the big bucks, and it takes money to make new Gundam series. As amazing as Turn A was, I doubt it enjoyed the same level of toy/model sales as Wing or SEED.

SEED is even mildly entertaining at times, even if the first half of the series is pretty much a carbon copy of the original Gundam (and even elements of Destiny, with the Destroy Gundam, are very derivative of Z Gundam). But it doesn't change the fact that it still has more pretty boys and super robots than Wing with a plot that's possibly more mediocre.

[F-ZeroOne]

Actually I happen to know that there are probably at least a whole, er, ten models or toys available for Turn-A - and at least ninety for SEED/Destiny.

Ninety plus one.

Ninety plus two.

Ninety plus...

[Twoducks]

I’ve only seen ten episodes but I must say I really like it, designs and all.

The whole Industrial age like society being colonised by a foreign culture instead of the other way around cracked me up.

Now that I finished the whole core UC stories (0079, 8th team, 0080, 0083, Z, Char’s CA) I’ll continue with the moustached warrior.

Being the thing that got me into Gundam, I hold SEED in a special place (but yes, the classic stuff in general is better). SEED rehashes a lot of UC but I appreciate there not being Newtypes. Coordinators seem better explained (genetically engineered better humans which generate prejudice among normal people). You don’t see much prejudice against newtypes in the UC (spacenoids yes) nor get a good understanding on how much power they have (I get the empathize with others thing, which I like, but I find that that is downplayed for more mystical or über living weapon things). It’s no surprised that so far I’ve enjoyed 8th team and 0080 the most (no super people nor über MS).

BTW, just saw Char’s CA yesterday and… liked it but not as much as I thought. It’s like Z mostly didn’t exist. Miss Super Newtype Quess didn’t help much in the way of enjoyment and Amuro could have used more characterisation.

[Keith]

It's just too bad we never got that Turn A sequel series.

[Hikuro]

0_o why would they make a Turn A sequal......? I thought the series had a pretty tight ending right there with the destruction of A and X.

[Black Valkyrie]

Yep the best AU Gundam of all time. Some of you may not why Tomino changed his style in this serie cuz in the 80`s and early 90`s he had depression, he wanted to take his own life but instead he put it in his shows. After Turn A ended he wrote a book called The Cure Of Turn A . Another reason why I like the Turn A is the character designs by AKI MAN (Final Fight, Street Fighter).

Ah my beloved Lora !

Lora is a man, if you really love him you should do something about your self.

[Gui]

Edit: Gui: I can't believe I missed the "tripod" look of the WaDoms; I love the War of the Worlds book and often think of H.G. Wells as being sort of the grandfather of mecha shows (if only he'd realised that giving the humans their own big robot would have been much more marketable than bacteria...  )

353847[/snapback]

He, he, that's true: I never looked at it in this way, that Wells is also a precursor for mechas aswell Steampunk human mechas would have been cool too: maybe for the next 'remake'

[F-ZeroOne]

Edit: Gui: I can't believe I missed the "tripod" look of the WaDoms; I love the War of the Worlds book and often think of H.G. Wells as being sort of the grandfather of mecha shows (if only he'd realised that giving the humans their own big robot would have been much more marketable than bacteria...  )

353847[/snapback]

He, he, that's true: I never looked at it in this way, that Wells is also a precursor for mechas aswell Steampunk human mechas would have been cool too: maybe for the next 'remake'

354062[/snapback]

I feel I should point out that the bacteria is sort of really the whole point of the book, but still... we can dream, huh?

[Gui]

Of course All the more as human mechas in a War of the Worlds movie/series/whatever don't prevent the use of bacteria in the plot anyway

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I liked the story. The mustache is a nice touch. Do you think they purposely put the mustache there (really just a lowered v fin) just to make it look like an upside down 'A'?

I always thought it strange that they finally ditched the samurai helmet with the mask over the mouth design for this series.

[drifand]

Toys dammit! The titanium cast "New Material" Turn-A was freaking gorgeous right up until the cheap iron rivets for the shoulder plates rusted and cracked the joint. Still love the toy... Would have been amazing to have a non-PVC DX toy of the Mobile Flat.

[Gui]

I liked the story. The mustache is a nice touch. Do you think they purposely put the mustache there (really just a lowered v fin) just to make it look like an upside down 'A'?

I always thought it strange that they finally ditched the samurai helmet with the mask over the mouth design for this series.

354360[/snapback]

I love this Gundam design personnally: though I'm usually not fond of 'good guys' MSs and particularly dislike Gundam designs, this one was cool and not overexagerating onto useless details to be noticeable among the crowd. This feature is surprising at first sight but I found it grew on me rather quickly, all the more as the lunarians always call it 'the Mustache' which gives a strong personnality to this machine

I've always been a fan of Syd Mead designs since about 15 years now and I'm very glad to see that a western artist had the opportunity to work onto far-east productions. Someone knows if other people from western cultures have already been directly involved into animes?

[The Shade]

Grrr. You guys have spoiled all my post holiday plans. I had been planning to watch some other series, but now you've put me in the mood to watch Turn A. Hearing you guys say that this was better than Seed is really encouraging. Seed was perfectly described by you guys. A half hour toy commercial. Also, being a Yoko Kanno fan is just another plus for Turn A.

[F-ZeroOne]

I liked the story. The mustache is a nice touch. Do you think they purposely put the mustache there (really just a lowered v fin) just to make it look like an upside down 'A'?

I always thought it strange that they finally ditched the samurai helmet with the mask over the mouth design for this series.

354360[/snapback]

I love this Gundam design personnally: though I'm usually not fond of 'good guys' MSs and particularly dislike Gundam designs, this one was cool and not overexagerating onto useless details to be noticeable among the crowd. This feature is surprising at first sight but I found it grew on me rather quickly, all the more as the lunarians always call it 'the Mustache' which gives a strong personnality to this machine

I've always been a fan of Syd Mead designs since about 15 years now and I'm very glad to see that a western artist had the opportunity to work onto far-east productions. Someone knows if other people from western cultures have already been directly involved into animes?

354622[/snapback]

Also, the moustache resembles a crescent Moon...

As for Western designers in anime, I can think of one right off the top of my head - theres a UK company called Terratag that produces anime-inspired art-work and t-shirts, and their designer Paul Nicholson did the "Laughing Man" logo for Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex!

http://www.terratag.com/

Gerry Anderson has both directly and indirectly been a big influence on many anime; his classic 60s shows like Thunderbirds inspiring many (in particular, Hideki Anno), as well as being involved in the recent anime "Firestorm".

[Black Valkyrie]

Including Go Nagai`s Starfleet/X-Bomber. (My fave show before RT/Macross).

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I love this Gundam design personnally: though I'm usually not fond of 'good guys' MSs and particularly dislike Gundam designs, this one was cool and not overexagerating onto useless details to be noticeable among the crowd. This feature is surprising at first sight but I found it grew on me rather quickly, all the more as the lunarians always call it 'the Mustache' which gives a strong personnality to this machine 

I've always been a fan of Syd Mead designs since about 15 years now and I'm very glad to see that a western artist had the opportunity to work onto far-east productions. Someone knows if other people from western cultures have already been directly involved into animes?

Well the way I like to think of it: all the manufacturers have different styles and taste. Some have been shaped with attitude, others for practical reasons (ie those round pod-like submersible shaped designs for water) and others for decoration. (ie the solar aquarion's face in aquarion is like some kind of demon that has possessed the armor, it's wings symbolic of the sun behind its back which is the theme it bases the super attack off for example)

But the Turn A, as strange as it is, it makes you think of the robot as more like it was made from an ancient advanced culture or something with its strange angles, rather than for use by military or some wacky custom design by robot enthusiast. (ie G gundam mecha)

After a time you don't notice or care who built it, whether feddie or zeon, because it tries to be different, outside the time of the ages of each cataclysmic war, so it isn't something easily identifiable by either side. The mystery is what makes it interesting, maybe hinting that its technology should seem almost magical to the discoverer? It's not completely man made, but like a living giant with healing ability - it even is worshipped like a statue as if some kind of destructive god to be feared. Apart from the colors it is distinct from the other robots.

Maybe the ultimate robot is the one with the unknown factor: not any person is allowed to take it lightly or use its features, because of the destructive power which had to be hidden and only used for emrgency. The more mysterious and "forbidden" the robot seems; where the technology is reaching a point that the tools themselves are alive and the pilot is "chosen" by it to have its exclusive power, the more fitting to the overall theme of "turning of ages", only to be awakened at a given time. (when the moon and earth unite and all the superstitious predict the doom through observing the heavens)

All the gundams have been like giant knights fighting for justice, but the turn a looks like it goes beyond a specific organisation, time, country, age etc and just tries to remain simple and symbolic, "cryptic" if you may. Like when people write and try to simplify something they can encode a whole meaning in a single sign, a letter, or a symbol. Chuck out the unecessary, and leave what is standard amoungst all things in all ages, without being too specific and putting details distinct to a culture. So that the robot fights for no one group or person in particular, but for everyone.

Like with Bruce Lee's fighting style: to not have a style for someone to identify with or exploit weaknesses from through observation or to mimmick, but to be adaptable and flexible like water, maybe to not even give it a name or label at all. Keep the fighting simple and only use what is necessary and practical for the ultimate fighting efficiency; throwing out the unecessary and keeping everything as straightforward as possible. Rather than locking and limiting your potential through given rules or a dogmatic and predictable "style" which means you are trying to consciously or subconsciously keep to a theme or a standard without questioning the practical purpose for it and scrutinising its true usefulness to you. (ie not everyone is the same, some are disadvantaged at doing things because of the way they are uniquely built. eg a tall person has strengths and weakness that are not there for a short person, possibly making certain moves more difficult for that person. Perhaps it is up to that tall person to develop thier own techniques that best suit who they are than to follow the grain unquestioningly?)

Edited December 25, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Keith]

One of the things I found most interesting was the depiction of the origianl use of the Moonlight Butterfly that brought about the dark history. Despite whiping away just about every trace of technology from Earth, it left everthing with a nuclear core intact, instead burrying those MS & ships deep under dirt & rock, so as not to expose the Earth's atmosphere to the radiation. While it served the dual purpose of making ancient Zaku's available to series, I'd like to think there was more behind it than that.

Also, I thought the final design of the Turn A wasn't directly related to Syd Mead's design, just evolved from it. Though I may be remembering wrong, I was pretty sure I remember seeing a picture of Syd Mead's actual design, which looked more generic & G-Savoiur-ish.

[Black Valkyrie]

Also, I thought the final design of the Turn A wasn't directly related to Syd Mead's design, just evolved from it. Though I may be remembering wrong, I was pretty sure I remember seeing a picture of Syd Mead's actual design, which looked more generic & G-Savoiur-ish.

354811[/snapback]

No it was actually more like the SUMO :

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/mead/turn...earlydesign.htm

[Gui]

Huh... I really prefer the Moustache personnally, though the SUMOs are cool in silver or gold colors

F-ZeroOne: thanks for the input, I'll give a try to these animes too

[The Shade]

I've watched the first four eps this week. So far, after I've watched each episode, I'm actually looking forward to the next one (probably the best compliment you could give a series).

The Gundam itself is indeed different, but that just goes along with the rest of the show. The entire show has such a different feeling than MSG, Wing, & Seed, that having a very different looking Gundam seems fitting.

The main character: again our protagonist is not your usual Gundam hero. His design doesn't make it seem like the ladies should be falling at his feet. He's average looking & very skinny (kinda like me ).

Oh, and could you guys try to include spoiler tags? Even though this show is 6 years old, many of us haven't seen it yet (due to it not being licensed in North America).

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The cockpit is especially wierd since it is on the outside. Kind of reminds me of the way the escape capsule thing works on those cowboy bebop craft. (swordfish and red tail)

Edited January 2, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Turn A's one of my favorite Gundams. I really liked the characters and overall storytelling. I actually kind of liked the mecha designs too. They grew on me rather quickly.

[ChrisG]

Also, I thought the final design of the Turn A wasn't directly related to Syd Mead's design, just evolved from it. Though I may be remembering wrong, I was pretty sure I remember seeing a picture of Syd Mead's actual design, which looked more generic & G-Savoiur-ish.

354811[/snapback]

No it was actually more like the SUMO :

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/mead/turn...earlydesign.htm

354812[/snapback]

Although that was one of Mead's early Turn A designs, it wasnt the first. There's a book called Mead Gundam containing all his designs. His very first design was indeed a typical Gundam. It was like a slim and sleek RX-78 - a bit different from what we usually see, but clearly in the Gundam style. Mead notes that Tomino looked at the design and rejected it because he wanted something completely non-Gundam like.

[Gui]

The cockpit is especially wierd since it is on the outside. Kind of reminds me of the way the escape capsule thing works on those cowboy bebop craft. (swordfish and red tail)

356691[/snapback]

This cockpit's the best CoreFighter ever IMO: great design IMO

[F-ZeroOne]

I'm feeling a bit guilty at the moment - having raved about Turn-A, I've got stalled at the mid-20s; Christmas, work, and, er... Doctor Who. (Turn-A is great, but... Doctor Who...!)

I will get back to it shortly, I promise!

Gui, you're welcome - if you're a bit puzzled about the "X-Bomber/Star Fleet" reference Black Valkyrie mentioned, you can find out more here: http://www.sfxb.co.uk/ (as you mentioned writing for a French anime site you might know the series by its French alter-ego: "Bomber X"...?)

[mikeszekely]

Also, I thought the final design of the Turn A wasn't directly related to Syd Mead's design, just evolved from it. Though I may be remembering wrong, I was pretty sure I remember seeing a picture of Syd Mead's actual design, which looked more generic & G-Savoiur-ish.

354811[/snapback]

No it was actually more like the SUMO :

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/mead/turn...earlydesign.htm

354812[/snapback]

Although that was one of Mead's early Turn A designs, it wasnt the first. There's a book called Mead Gundam containing all his designs. His very first design was indeed a typical Gundam. It was like a slim and sleek RX-78 - a bit different from what we usually see, but clearly in the Gundam style. Mead notes that Tomino looked at the design and rejected it because he wanted something completely non-Gundam like.

356770[/snapback]

I also seem to recall a Turn A design by Hajime Katoki.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

You know what the turn A's head looks like now?

If you take off the mustache, it looks just like the Yamato VB-6 Monster's head!