Love Drifts Away

[Agent ONE]

Interesting, I always saw Flashback as a replacement for the last 9 episodes for DYRL.  As in the TV show had the last 9, so DYRL gets Flashback to finally tie things up.

*Nobody bring up the whole M7 movie within a movie thing, thats just stupid and was invented 10 years after production, so if you ever talk about it, you are a douche-bag.

350083[/snapback]

But DYRL is a movie within the Macross universe!

350127[/snapback]

But seriously, how do you decide which one is the official timeline/plot without that invention? Does Kawamori or the other Macross powers-that-be have no weight in this debate? Cuz I'm pretty sure the "movie within the universe" is the official line.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll go fill myself with vinegar and insert. . .

H

350138[/snapback]

Its official, but it was never designed with that intention. The movie within a movie concept was invented 10 years later.

[Hurin]

Its official, but it was never designed with that intention.  The movie within a movie concept was invented 10 years later.

350155[/snapback]

Why so fixated on how much time passed before they came up with the "concept?" I can think of a certain Sci-Fi movie series where a certain director/creator came back in a quarter-century later and fundamentally changed tons of stuff. . . and you've repeatedly said that you had no problem with him doing so. . .

Edited December 7, 2005 by Hurin

[Agent ONE]

Its official, but it was never designed with that intention.  The movie within a movie concept was invented 10 years later.

350155[/snapback]

Why so fixated on how much time passed before they came up with the "concept?" I can think of a certain Sci-Fi movie series where a certain director/creator came back in a quarter-century later and fundamentally changed tons of stuff. . . and you've repeatedly said that you had no problem with him doing so. . .

350157[/snapback]

The prequels didn't change what the OT is/was. M7 Tries to change what DYRL is/was.

I know you are going to argue with me about the Star Wars, but I am talking about reality, or how the public may view the issue, not some half-jacked-off dog fanboy view of the OT versus the prequels versus the Special Editions.

[Hurin]

Calm down sweetie.

"Musta hit pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that, eh kid?"

[bsu legato]

You know..the whole TV vs DYRL thing would be so much easier if fans could just reconcile the fact that they're BOTH works of fiction, and accept them as such.

Besides, Macross isn't the only anime whose timeline has been overhauled once or thrice.

[Mechamaniac]

You know..the whole TV vs DYRL thing would be so much easier if fans could just reconcile the fact that they're BOTH works of fiction, and accept them as such. 

350170[/snapback]

Macross......is..........FICTION????

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

My universe is crumbling around me!. I have nothing left to live for. I guess I've been wasting my time doing all those flyovers in the South Pacific looking for the mystical South Ataria island.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Mechamaniac

[bsu legato]

I guess I've been wasting my time doing all those flyovers in the South Pacific looking for the mystical South Ataria island.

350174[/snapback]

Who are you trying to kid? We all know that you spent all that time in the South Pacific looking for this:

[Mechamaniac]

Yep, that's Mao, our little Kancho Assassin.

[Zinjo]

J. Micheal Straczynski had Babylon 5 planned for 5 seasons.  Unfortunately, B5 was in danger of cancellation several times during the run of the series, but none so critical as the cancellation possibility that occured during season three.  Warner Bros. was indicating there would be no 5th season for B5.  JMS and company were told that it would be best to wrap-up B5 in the 4th season.  In order to salvage the overall story arc of B5, JMS decided to write the story so it would end in season 4 and drop several side arcs to trim the story down.  The Shadow War was originally scheduled to be resolved at the END of season 4 according to JMS, leaving the Earth Civil War to playout amongst various other events in 5th season.

As it turns out, B5 was never cancelled and was renewed for a 5th and final season.  So JMS resurrected several of the dropped side arcs and created some further plots for the story (notably, the prelude to the Telepath War).  This became 5th season.

349989[/snapback]

Ahh, OK, that does shed a bit more light on the 5th season...

[Agent ONE]

Calm down sweetie.

"Musta hit pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that, eh kid?"

350164[/snapback]

The disrespect you show your Father is un-nerving.

[Zinjo]

Minmay doesn't fare much better.  She gets spurned by Hikaru after finally realizing that she loves him, and is left at 17 with a washed up career, and noone who really gives a crap about her.

350012[/snapback]

But Minmay doesn't love Hikaru, at least not much more than a close friend. She realizes after Kaifun leaves that she is all alone and that she's sacrificed everything and everyone to make her dream of becoming a singing star, a reality.

In the post war eps, she is "trying" to reciprocate Hikaru's feelings and develop a relationship between the two, but ultimately accepts the fact, during the final assualt on the SDF1, that her first love is her music an nothing else.

[Mechamaniac]

Minmay doesn't fare much better.  She gets spurned by Hikaru after finally realizing that she loves him, and is left at 17 with a washed up career, and noone who really gives a crap about her.

350012[/snapback]

But Minmay doesn't love Hikaru, at least not much more than a close friend. She realizes after Kaifun leaves that she is all alone and that she's sacrificed everything and everyone to make her dream of becoming a singing star, a reality.

In the post war eps, she is "trying" to reciprocate Hikaru's feelings and develop a relationship between the two, but ultimately accepts the fact, during the final assualt on the SDF1, that her first love is her music an nothing else.

350192[/snapback]

Sure she does...in the same way that Hikaru (thought he) loved her. The point I was trying to make is that she winds up alone, and with a career in tatters. Interest in Minmay waned seriously after SW1. During the war, she was something everyone could rally around as they were all (literally) in the same boat. But, post war, everyone was too busy with other things, and there was Minmay playing dives.

[JB0]

Riiiiiiight...

Minmay doesn't fare much better.  She gets spurned by Hikaru after finally realizing that she loves him, and is left at 17 with a washed up career, and noone who really gives a crap about her.

350012[/snapback]

But Minmay doesn't love Hikaru, at least not much more than a close friend. She realizes after Kaifun leaves that she is all alone and that she's sacrificed everything and everyone to make her dream of becoming a singing star, a reality.

In the post war eps, she is "trying" to reciprocate Hikaru's feelings and develop a relationship between the two, but ultimately accepts the fact, during the final assualt on the SDF1, that her first love is her music an nothing else.

350192[/snapback]

Sure she does...in the same way that Hikaru (thought he) loved her. The point I was trying to make is that she winds up alone, and with a career in tatters. Interest in Minmay waned seriously after SW1. During the war, she was something everyone could rally around as they were all (literally) in the same boat. But, post war, everyone was too busy with other things, and there was Minmay playing dives.

350195[/snapback]

Taht was one of the things that always stuck out to me. Minmay really could've been anybody. They were starved for some new media, and she was around(remember, the zentradi were blocking communications for most of the trip home). I assume they got some Earth media in with their resupply, but given the Earth had just banished them, it might not exactly have made the best seller list.

When your entire audience is a single city that's been cut off by the enemy, it's a LOT easier to be a big celebrity than when you're on a planet with people spread out all over the place, and probably with the rest of the world growing it's own singers, actors, and so on.

[EXO]

Taht was one of the things that always stuck out to me. Minmay really could've been anybody. They were starved for some new media, and she was around(remember, the zentradi were blocking communications for most of the trip home). I assume they got some Earth media in with their resupply, but given the Earth had just banished them, it might not exactly have made the best seller list.

When your entire audience is a single city that's been cut off by the enemy, it's a LOT easier to be a big celebrity than when you're on a planet with people spread out all over the place, and probably with the rest of the world growing it's own singers, actors, and so on.

350229[/snapback]

They didn't really try to hide that fact. But she did win a beauty contest against almost a dozen women, one of whom was already an established celebrity. And she also had a letter to audition or something before she got on the ship. So the fact that she was meant to be famous was already in waiting. On the Macross she was more than a star though, she was the hope of humanity.

Also, in DYRL she was a star prior to the launch of the Macross.

Edited December 7, 2005 by >EXO<

[bsu legato]

Also, in DYRL she was a star prior to the launch of the Macross.

350230[/snapback]

Was she? In the concert at the beginning of the movie, she refers to it as her "debut." Was this just wonky subtitles?

[EXO]

Also, in DYRL she was a star prior to the launch of the Macross.

350230[/snapback]

Was she? In the concert at the beginning of the movie, she refers to it as her "debut." Was this just wonky subtitles?

350236[/snapback]

she filled a whole concert hall with people shouting her name. And it wasn't because they couldn't get out of the ship. Also Hikaru asks her about her movie roles and if those kisses were real. So she obviously had came out on TV or films before becoming a recording star. She had dolls made after her...

Edited December 7, 2005 by >EXO<

[Mechamaniac]

Also, in DYRL she was a star prior to the launch of the Macross.

350230[/snapback]

Was she? In the concert at the beginning of the movie, she refers to it as her "debut." Was this just wonky subtitles?

350236[/snapback]

she filled a whole concert hall with people shouting her name. And it wasn't because they couldn't get out of the ship. Also Hikaru asks her about her movie roles and if those kisses were real. So she obviously had came out on TV or films before becoming a recording star. She had dolls made after her...

350248[/snapback]

I always assumed that Hikaru was referring to her role in Shao Pai Lon when he asked her that. Also, remember, that was the song she was singing in her concert when the transformation alarm sounded.

Seems to me that DYRL takes place right around the time that SPL debuted. Of course, in DYRL they haven't made it back to Earth yet, and Earth has already been blow'd up, so they switched some more stuff around.

[Keith]

FB 2012 fits far more perfectly as a TV ending than a DYRL one. During the Tenshi no Enogu segments, pretty much everything Misa, Hikaru, & Minmay vowed to do at the end of the series actually takes place. Minmay has now found her own emotion to put into her songs, reflects back on her life, and then gives a big farewell concert before she leaves with Hikaru & Misa to go colonize space.

As for DYRL itself, I honestly don't see why some of you have such a hard time reconsiling its place in the canon. The TV series (design & story) is absolute canon for Macross. DYRL reflects the technology & style of 2030 era Macross. It's been placed as a bridge between TV & Plus.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

And they had those actors in macross 7. (a giant zentradi dressed up as britai) I think DYRL fits well as a war documentary/movie given that SW I was such a big event for the human race. Minmay is still famous in terms of history.

In the movie Milia never flew a VF1, but in the macross 7 tv series there we see her classic red vf1 from the original tv series complete with SDF:M tv flightsuit. So the SDF:M tv series events and some old design do fit in as canon in some things.

I just wish the old tv series went on long enough for us to have seen VF-4 being used.

Edited December 10, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Mechamaniac]

FB 2012 fits far more perfectly as a TV ending than a DYRL one. During the Tenshi no Enogu segments, pretty much everything Misa, Hikaru, & Minmay vowed to do at the end of the series actually takes place. Minmay has now found her own emotion to put into her songs, reflects back on her life, and then gives a big farewell concert before she leaves with Hikaru & Misa to go colonize space.

As for DYRL itself, I honestly don't see why some of you have such a hard time reconsiling its place in the canon. The TV series (design & story) is absolute canon for Macross. DYRL reflects the technology & style of 2030 era Macross. It's been placed as a bridge between TV & Plus.

350315[/snapback]

So, I suppose they retrofitted Exsedol with the big pulsating brain, and tentacles then eh?

[JB0]

As for DYRL itself, I honestly don't see why some of you have such a hard time reconsiling its place in the canon. The TV series (design & story) is absolute canon for Macross. DYRL reflects the technology & style of 2030 era Macross. It's been placed as a bridge between TV & Plus.

350315[/snapback]

Explain the DYRL-stylings of Macross Zero then.

So, I suppose they retrofitted Exsedol with the big pulsating brain, and tentacles then eh?

350340[/snapback]

There's some mention of re-engineering his body at the same time he restored his size in the Compendium. Which would serve as an explanation if we prefer the TV version of everyone's favorite walking encyclopedia.

IMO, he's fugly in either incarnation.

[Keith]

I believe the official explanation was that Exedor became paranoid of losing his memory capacity as a miclone, so he opted to re-macronize, and get upgrades to his capacity to boot. Sounds perfectly within character.

As for Zero, why would there be any reason to believe that the U.N. Spacy wasn't already working on newer technology after finalizing the VF-1. It'd be stupid for them not to. The VF-0 represents prototype technology that wouldn't have been cost effective to incorperate into the mass produced VF-1. Hell, look at how much of a leap the YF-19 & YF-21 were over the VF-11.

And of course, the destruction of the majority of Earth's populace would have obviously set the tech schedule back a bit.

[JB0]

I believe the official explanation was that Exedor became paranoid of losing his memory capacity as a miclone, so he opted to re-macronize, and get  upgrades to his capacity to boot. Sounds perfectly within character.

As for Zero, why would there be any reason to believe that the U.N. Spacy wasn't already working on newer technology after finalizing the VF-1. It'd be stupid for them not to. The VF-0 represents prototype technology that wouldn't have been cost effective to incorperate into the mass produced VF-1. Hell, look at how much of a leap the YF-19 & YF-21 were over the VF-11.

How about the flight suits?

And it doesn't make sense to be using a totally new interface.

The cockpit should've borne a resemblance to the early VF-1s.

[Hurin]

I really can't understand why everyone can't just say:

"They put more effort into the designs for the movie (DYRL) since it was intended to be their Macross 'masterpiece.' So, while they prefer the more developed story of the TV series as the canonical continuity, they use the DYRL mecha and character designs as the basis from which they develop the visual style of the sequels and prequels."

All the rest is just fanboy masturbation. Even if some of it is encouraged by "official" statements from BW or Kawamori himself.

P.S. Though I do realize some of you are just trying to get a rise out of Keith. Which, of course, is always fun.

[Keith]

If you think that's getting a rise, then apparently you've forgotten what I'm like once I've "risen."

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

They can make more money selling both tv and movie valkyrie toys, that's probably why they'll come up with ideas to explain changes.

milk the vf1 from the movie, and also milk it from the tv series. Say that both are valid because the canon is a mixture of everything and then rake in the money from the sales of both versions. If you want the SDF1 you got to buy both tv and movie version.

Besides there are certain things I prefer in the tv series to the movie:

-Roys vf1S color and skull and crossbones.

-Grey flightsuit

-the way they launched valks in the tv series, instead of having a stupid robot arm holding them

-the green qrau (instead of the movie red and purple, which is the color of the meltran ships)

-the fact that not everyone had the FAST pack as standard and it was more of a developing upgrade to make the old valk much faster, have more weapons etc.

As for the comment about developing tech during the time of VF1 as the main fighter, there was a model kit of the vf4 in the background in the tv series I think. So they must have already had these more advanced valks being developed but not ready to be used by the cannon fodder pilots yet. So by flashback's time, that is where it is finally being flown just at the end of war. Although the technology was there perhaps the the govt was too slow and couldn't make them in time, so all we got to see were vf1 with Super upgrades during sw I.

Edited December 8, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Black Valkyrie]

Those last episodes are the best thing about Macross, especially the last three ones. I really loved the on going between Hikaru and Misa, when even I watch it I always get this cold/sad feeling.

PS: As for the other subject each one has/her own opinion.

Edited December 8, 2005 by Black Valkyrie

[Agent ONE]

If you think that's getting a rise, then apparently you've forgotten what I'm like once I've "risen."

350623[/snapback]

I remember! You become a complete loser, as opposed to a worthless pussy.

[Mechamaniac]

If you think that's getting a rise, then apparently you've forgotten what I'm like once I've "risen."

350623[/snapback]

I remember! You become a complete loser, as opposed to a worthless pussy.

350682[/snapback]

Oooh, that's gotta hurt Bob...

[JB0]

-the way they launched valks in the tv series, instead of having a stupid robot arm holding them

Which actually makes a lot of sense. The more velocity they acquire from the ship, the less reaction mass they have to expend to get up to speed.

-the green qrau (instead of the movie red and purple, which is the color of the meltran ships)

YES!

-the fact that not everyone had the FAST pack as standard and it was more of a developing upgrade to make the old valk much faster, have more weapons etc.

As stated, the movie picked up a good bit into the series, and things were shifted around a bit.

Presumably the FAST packs were developed earlier in the movie continuity. From there, it makes sense to equip all fighters with them as fast as possible. Especially since the DYRL SDF lacked a launcher, so all acceleration was provided by onboard fuel.

Hence priority was placed on building FAST packs and equipping them.

[Zinjo]

As for DYRL itself, I honestly don't see why some of you have such a hard time reconsiling its place in the canon. The TV series (design & story) is absolute canon for Macross. DYRL reflects the technology & style of 2030 era Macross. It's been placed as a bridge between TV & Plus.

350315[/snapback]

Actually the 1984 film should not be confused with the 2030 film referred to in the Macross universe. Kawamori admits there are two...

The 1984 film is correctly described as the visual canon of the Macross story (how the piece fits into the continuity of the whole story is a bit dodgy, since Kawamori won't give a difinitive answer on the subject).

The one described in Mac 7 is another production within the Macross universe that came out around 2030 which is responsible for inspiring Basra Nikkei to get into music (according to the Macross Compendium).

Edited December 9, 2005 by Zinjo

[promethuem5]

I think the visual aspect vs. story aspect makes sense... and just makes me wish even more that someone'd go back and redo the series with modern animation technology and DYRL visuals.

[Keith]

If you think that's getting a rise, then apparently you've forgotten what I'm like once I've "risen."

350623[/snapback]

I remember! You become a complete loser, as opposed to a worthless pussy.

350682[/snapback]

That's not what you said last night...

[JB0]

I'm liking this thread more and more.

[Agent ONE]

If you think that's getting a rise, then apparently you've forgotten what I'm like once I've "risen."

350623[/snapback]

I remember! You become a complete loser, as opposed to a worthless pussy.

350682[/snapback]

That's not what you said last night...

350999[/snapback]

Please keep posting, I don't even have to make fun of you, you do a good enough job of looking stupid on your own.