Macross Dvd: The Double Dip

[SpacyAce2012]

Nope. Haven't done it.

I've had mine for quiet a while and watched them often. No signs of cracking. But some of my players dislike Volume Three and Seven for some reason. There is a slight pause while playing. But this doesn't happen in all machines.

[Zinjo]

With Macross a cash cow project and RT an American house hold name, the risk of "brand" confusion is essentially gone, thanks to less than tasteful business practices over the years.

The brand confusion is as prevalent as ever.

People still believe Macross is "japanese Robotech" and that Southern Cross and MOSPEADA are "seasons 2 and 3 of Macross."

I don't dispute that, what I meant was that the ignorant masses "believe" RT came first and thus the RT brand name is not in jeopardy (as far as HG is concerned)...

Therefore, it is only to be expected that they'll milk the series for every cent they can!

Well, yeah.

That doesn't mean we can't point out their shameless abuse of the fans.

We're preaching the same message, just from different points of view, man.

People wouldn't have plunked down the cash for the original releases if they'd known that one with the features they wanted was coming.

HG wouldn't have made a release WITHOUT the high-demand features if they hadn't intended to double-dip.

The reality is that all studios, including HG double dip, because THEY CAN... LOTR is a perfect example. They re-sold each film of the trilogy, twice, because the fans would buy it. It may not be ethical, but it's ballsy business practices that work.

I half-suspect that's why the sounds were changed on Robotech Remastered, just so people that held out and got the cleaned-up extended version might go back and get the originals just to have non-crappy sound effects.

I found the Remastered audio to be rather poor and not well engineered. Now it may have been my audio receiver at the time, but I really wasn't impressed.

Is it cynical? Yes. Has HG justified the cynicism? Also yes.

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Hey I agree, I'm only pointing out their motives, not justifying them.

[Hurin]

The reality is that all studios, including HG double dip, because THEY CAN...  LOTR is a perfect example.  They re-sold each film of the trilogy, twice, because the fans would buy it.  It may not be ethical, but it's ballsy business practices that work.

No offense, but LotR is a terrible example. They were very clear that the Extended Editions would be made available in each case shortly after the originals. Fans were given a choice between which one they would buy and choice is a good thing. Though, as I rant about on my website, that didn't stop ignorant whiners from lamenting that Peter Jackson and New Line Cinema had somehow "cheated" them.

I think a lot of people here are upset with HG for constantly just. . . well. . . flat-out lying several times in order to convince fans that no better or improved version of the their current releases would ever be made available. Thus, when RT first came out on DVD, they said they would never remaster it. . . so you'd better buy these. Then, after they remastered it, they said they would never dub Macross into english outside of RT. . . so you'd better buy the RT Remastered or the Animeigo DVDs. Now, they've dubbed Macross.

That's far different than what happened with LotR.

Anyways, I've stayed out of this thread until now. But I might as well give my opinion: I own the Animeigo set. I am interested in the english dub. So, I'll buy the new version too. I just don't feel like getting all worked up about how I've been "cheated." I wanted the Animeigo DVDs when they came out, and I was willing to pay what I did for them without a dub. Now that a dub is available, I've made the determination that I'm willing to spend money on them again. No big whoop in my book.

H

[Hikaru2]

I will get the set. I dont have an Animeigo set, and also like several others here i have kids now and want them to me able to enjoy this as much as i do. and the original japanese will still be there- so I'll bite.

Hurin-

love the anti choice idiot bashing bro! How could anyone think that having a choice between the ORIGINAL release of a film and a SPECIAL or EXTENDED version is a rip off? I dont get it... goes to show that "common" sense really isnt so common.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Hikaru2

[Gabe Q]

Hikaru2, I love that avatar.

[ChrisG]

The way I see it, I don't have a problem with AnimEigo's higher price. I was one of the ones who purchased the original 9 disc box set. Sure, it was $250 and not dubbed, but then again, I've had it for more than 4 years and have watched many times since receiving it. It's not so much an issue of cost as it is value. I'd been hyped ever since AnimEigo first announced that Macross license in 1999. I would've been willing to pay as much as $300 or $350 for that set, so I don't at all feel ripped off, or that I was paying the price so that other people could get it more cheaply years down the line.

[Zinjo]

No offense, but LotR is a terrible example.  They were very clear that the Extended Editions would be made available in each case shortly after the originals.  Fans were given a choice between which one they would buy and choice is a good thing.  Though, as I rant about on my website, that didn't stop ignorant whiners from lamenting that Peter Jackson and New Line Cinema had somehow "cheated" them.

I disagree. It is still "double dipping", however what made it unique is that they were up front about it from the beginning and had enough respect for the fans to provide unique content for both disc sets, unlike most Hollywood studios.

I think a lot of people here are upset with HG for constantly just. . . well. . . flat-out lying several times in order to convince fans that no better or improved version of the their current releases would ever be made available.  Thus, when RT first came out on DVD, they said they would never remaster it. . . so you'd better buy these.  Then, after they remastered it, they said they would never dub Macross into english outside of RT. . . so you'd better buy the RT Remastered or the Animeigo DVDs.  Now, they've dubbed Macross.

That's far different than what happened with LotR.

The method of delivery and business ethics may be different, but the fact remains that it is still "double dipping" in the strictest sense of the term.

What LOTR did was show studios that they could "milk" the fanbase for two home video versions of the same movie, which has become common practice now. Some will buy both sets of the same release, while some will only buy one or the other.

Personally I don't have a problem with what New Line did. They could do it and so more power to them. Why not get all you can from a property, since the proceeds will go to fund other projects, that may never see the light of day at a bigger studio, that deserve to be made.

Those who feel cheated are ones who'd be cheated by lesser things anyway, IMO.

It's all about choice. I for one never expected a Macross dub, but now that it's in the works, fine!

I know the proceeds will go into the new Robowreck series and that is fine, it's their money to do with as they please. So long as they are too distracted to attempt to further supress Macross in North America, I'm cool with it.

[Apollo Leader]

Just a few points...

1) Gonna have to go out on a limb for Harmony Gold on this one. Why HG didn't use remastered footage to begin with was because the proper materials for doing so did not exist when the first DVD's came out in 2001! Read the full, 3-part story starting here. Unlike Lord of the Rings which was made just a few years ago and efforts to make "special editions" of the video releases were made almost simultaneously with the movies, Robotech, Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada were made over 20 years ago; during these 20 years, issues such as licensing issues, missing and damaged audio and video materials, etc. come into play.

2) Regarding Macross being "double dipped", you have to give credit to ADV for making the efforts to make this a unique release (English dub, different extras) separate from the Animeigo release. And considering we are having THE original of Minmay herself reprising her role that she made famous so many years ago, how many anime series and their fans can have those kind of bragging rights. And with ADV doing the release, this Macross release will see a wider and cheaper release then the Animeigo DVD's ever did. We in the Macross fandom have it better then we think we have it...

3) Regarding "special edition" DVD sets of movies and shows coming out (whether it be known before or after the initial home video release), it is a lot easier to sell and trade off DVD's then VHS ever was. If in doubt on what is going to happen with your favorite movie for its home video release, do a little research or just ask someone from your local Suncoast.

[big F]

Just a few points...

3)  Regarding "special edition" DVD sets of movies and shows coming out (whether it be known before or after the initial home video release), it is a lot easier to sell and trade off DVD's then VHS ever was.

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The one awesome saving grace that is DVD.

Watch it keep it Trade it simple.

I really wanted the original Dvd issue but due to living in the U.K they (at the time) were at the time not shipping out side the U.S and Canada.

Row-boat-Heck has its place ( I have all of them) but now they are more suited to the kids I think they are grat at getting the little ones interested in Macross.

I watch the dvds I have in Japanese with subtitles and only in english if it has that on the disk. The only thing that bugs me is the piss poor translation on some of them.

Watch enough subbed anime and you start to pick up on words and fraises so you notice it more and more even when the subtiles make sence

If HG make a cart load of money (im sure they will) from this. If they pile the money back in to a new self writen series of RT then hopefully this will do two things.

1. As a byproduct the intrest level in Macross will go up and maybe some new Macross stuff will get made zero 2 or something new maybe.

2. The other series may get the restoration and dub treatment which will also increase levels of intrest.

All in all if 1 and 2 are acheived this is good news for us.

[Jeid]

I only got the last animeigo set, so I'll definitely be picking up this release (I would have anyway; I like dubs and this cast looks awesome).

It's a shame ADV won't be dubbing the songs though.

[JB0]

It's a shame ADV won't be dubbing the songs though.

351187[/snapback]

*twitch*

*twitch*

*twitch*

Dubbed songs are the single worst localization move in the history of anime.

[Jeid]

It's a shame ADV won't be dubbing the songs though.

351187[/snapback]

*twitch*

*twitch*

*twitch*

Dubbed songs are the single worst localization move in the history of anime.

351200[/snapback]

I figure if they're going to dub the show and even got Mari back, they ought to give dubbing the songs a try too. I feel that in-show songs sung by characters should always be dubbed to maintain full continuity... especially when they play a major role in the series like Macross.

Unfortunately, ADV says Macross is too old so they couldn't get off-vocal versions of the songs... which is odd, since weren't they on the OSTs?

[Hurin]

The method of delivery and business ethics may be different, but the fact remains that it is still "double dipping" in the strictest sense of the term.

Based on how utterly different the two situations are, I think you mean to say that they are both "double dipping" in the loosest sense of the term.

We're all praising choice here. Indeed, that's what my rants on my website are about. But choice is only useful to a consumer if they are aware that there is or will be a choice. A totally uninformed (or misinformed) choice is no choice at all. Now, making an uninformed choice can be the fault of the customer. But, in the case of the various HG DVD projects, there seems to have been a concerted effort to mis-inform their customers so that they would make "bad" choices (buying each edition of the DVD as they incrementally improved becase they had been told that no further improvements would ever be forthcoming).

New Line made it abundantly clear to anyone even casually interested in the films that an extended edition would be made available. HG has (apparently) lied about and covered up its future for improved/extended/remastered editions in order to boost sales of currently available edtions.

The two situations could hardly be more different. . . and I'm not sure I would consider multiple DVD releases "double-dipping" at all as long as the studio has made a reasonable effort to inform its potential customers of the choices available. Just because some fanboys have a compulsive need to buy all available editions of a film doesn't make it "double-dipping."

Again, I don't have a dog in this fight. I can't really summon up much anger towards HG on this occasion. But, let's not apply the label of "double-dipping" with too broad a brush here. . .

H

Edit: Typos

Edited December 10, 2005 by Hurin

[Zinjo]

Unfortunately, ADV says Macross is too old so they couldn't get off-vocal versions of the songs... which is odd, since weren't they on the OSTs?

351204[/snapback]

I suspect there is more of an issue with the record company's permission/license to allow a release of English transliteration of the songs, rather than anything else.

Mari is an accomplished bi-lingual song writer who understands the songs as well as the composer would, so she's qualified to do the lyrics as well as sing them.

I suspect ADV didn't consider how much the fans would have wanted the songs in English (Duh!! You get the singer but not the songs... ). Especially considering they have never made an attempt to transliterate music from any of the other shows they've dubbed over the years.

Personally if they were smart, they'd contract Mari to do just that for them. It would give them a resource that was unavailable to them before as well as a regular income for her and the flexibility to continue to tour.

Edited December 10, 2005 by Zinjo

[Jeid]

I suspect there is more of an issue with the record company's permission/license to allow a release of English transliteration of the songs, rather than anything else.

Mari is an accomplished bi-lingual song writer who understands the songs as well as the composer would, so she's qualified to do the lyrics as well as sing them.

I suspect ADV didn't consider how much the fans would have wanted the songs in English (Duh!! You get the singer but not the songs... rolleyes.gif ). Especially considering they have never made an attempt to transliterate music from any of the other shows they've dubbed over the years.

ADV has dubbed songs in some shows before, like Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040 and Sister Princess.

As for the reasons, I'm just going by what Janice Williams posted at AoD, though I do think your ideas are plausible too.

Edit: Oops, forgot to quote.

Edited December 10, 2005 by Jeid

[JB0]

It's a shame ADV won't be dubbing the songs though.

351187[/snapback]

*twitch*

*twitch*

*twitch*

Dubbed songs are the single worst localization move in the history of anime.

351200[/snapback]

I figure if they're going to dub the show and even got Mari back, they ought to give dubbing the songs a try too. I feel that in-show songs sung by characters should always be dubbed to maintain full continuity... especially when they play a major role in the series like Macross.

Continuity makes sense.

But IMO, it's usually offset by the utter incompetence with which the new lyrics are written(or performed, but given they have an accomplished singer doing the role, that's not a concern). So I prefer non-translated songs.

[Ishimaru]

It's a shame ADV won't be dubbing the songs though.

351187[/snapback]

*twitch*

*twitch*

*twitch*

Dubbed songs are the single worst localization move in the history of anime.

351200[/snapback]

I figure if they're going to dub the show and even got Mari back, they ought to give dubbing the songs a try too. I feel that in-show songs sung by characters should always be dubbed to maintain full continuity... especially when they play a major role in the series like Macross.

Continuity makes sense.

But IMO, it's usually offset by the utter incompetence with which the new lyrics are written(or performed, but given they have an accomplished singer doing the role, that's not a concern). So I prefer non-translated songs.

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Puting dubbed songs are one of things I want to see in the Macross dubbing, its nothing without Mari, and that old fart chumy girly voice is just awful. What made Macross so good was the songs, a chance of dubbing them is a good option and Im suprised why they didnt take it. What was the reason why ADV never took the option of dubbing songs was it because they wanted to preserve it or decided they didnt want to or something else?

I love originality and Mari's natural talent for singing shouldnt be wasted away

and thats that.

I realy dont have a full set the AnimeEigo set but I have seen the whole set, Im going with a yes on this since I do got the money to buy it(Eventuly), and the reason is because of the dubbing. Well I got nothing else to say now, but nice avatar JBO .

[Jeid]

Puting dubbed songs are one of things I want to see in the Macross dubbing, its nothing without Mari, and that old fart chumy girly voice is just awful. What made Macross so good was the songs, a chance of dubbing them is a good option and Im suprised why they didnt take it. What was the reason why ADV never took the option of dubbing songs was it because they wanted to preserve it or decided they didnt want to or something else?

351279[/snapback]

They claim they couldn't get the vocal-less songs to dub over.

Sorry to disappoint guys, but the singing remains in Japanese. Unfortunately, this is an old enough show that we were unable to get the music without the vocals. at least it's the same voice actresses doing the dialogue and the singing.

Edited December 10, 2005 by Jeid

[Renato]

Unfortunately, ADV says Macross is too old so they couldn't get off-vocal versions of the songs... which is odd, since weren't they on the OSTs?

351204[/snapback]

Yeah, I've got them, they're on the second CD of Macross The Complete. Sounds like they're making up a story to hide the fact that they would need a license from Victor to actually get hold of the tracks, and HG is not gonna allow them to open THAT can of worms.

Someone should just lend Mari and ADV their CD, hehe.

[Keith]

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Usually the problem is the dub voice not matching up with the singing voice, now there's a seemless conversion, making it even less necessary than usual to dub them.

[big F]

Well we know that they can translate the songs quite well. It was done for the Dynamite 7 OVA as you can hear in the background of some scenes. May be It is an area they dont want to goto for fear of making a hash of it.

[waters7]

Just like Agent 1 said, I guess I have too much money to spend and I'm a Macross whore... but regardless, I'm buying this set for several reasons:

1.- because I'm a completist (is this a word?)

2.- even though I didn't believe this before, but my Animeigo set it's starting to crack (on 2 discs)

3.- I do not feel making a back up of the animeigo set.

4.- and because I feel a curiosoty towards the new dub

Hopefully, ADV will be able to deliver a good dub (I'm not expecting an excellent dub, but hey I'm crossing my fingers), a good sub work and that they will include a few more extras than linear notes.

In regards of Harmony Gold and their business practice with Macross and Robotech.... heck!! they are doing what they are doing because they can, and in this country (USA), people (or business for that matter) do things because they can and can get away with it. It's not their fault that people will buy one thing and then turn around and the next day buy the new enhanced remastered extended 5.1 surround edition. Have they (HG) lied to us in the past about everything??? of course they have... so why are we complaining about how they threat their fan base??? Lie to me once, shame on you, lie to me twice, shame on me.

regards...

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Yeah but by criticising them you help others (like your friends) know what kind of sneaky tricks they have up thier sleeve so you are helping others to not make the same mistake you did, and hopefully send a message that you aren't as happy as you would have been if you had warnings and were better informed.

For example with robotech dvd, people would have felt less cheated if the newer version had the newer enhancments (non censored) ..plus.. whatever was in the old version (old school sounds) so that you feel like you have the complete thing in a single package rather having to buy the same thing twice. The way they have it is that the fan is wasting money and/or too pissed to want to bother completing a collection and they (HG) cheat themselves in the long run. (you turn into an unsatisfied customer who remembers thier tactics and will wait till things hit bargain bins before purchasing )

What if you are a fan of the old sounds, but want cleaner visuals but only have enough money to get one set? It's sad because they are split between the two sets and as somebody above mentioned it was probably intentional to hope that somebody caves in trying to get it all like pokemon .

More options = better. But splitting those options along several different release types and not letting people know what the intentions are in future is being misleading imo. Good business should strive to be the best and keep the fan/customer satisfied to ensure long term patronage.

Double dipping ain't so bad so long as you are aware beforehand. But if there is no warning or you are ignorant of whats going to happen you have to rely on others recommendations and complaints. But if nobody complained, or made a big noise, how would the uninformed know anything?

Edited December 11, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[isamu]

no Tony Oliver no sale.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

I missed out on the First set, so i'll be getting these. these are supposed to be straight translations, and not the robodrek version of the story, right? Guess i'll find out. i preordered from Barnes and Noble.

[vsim]

I never ponied up for the Animeigo set so I'm voting yes.  I am going to hold off and wait to hear about the quality of the dub.  I've would love to be able to sit my girlfriend down and watch an episode with her.  As it is though, I feel horribly dorky just trying to get her to watch an early 80s cartoon... let alone one she has to read the subtitles on.

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I got my wife to watch my Animeigo set and she liked it . Even got her to watch Macross 7.

[Keith]

Some good news at least, looks like the volume 1 cover has been revised, it's a different image, but at least it's not backwards!

http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmg...tem/68371/4/0/0

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I voted undecided. I usually don't rebuy things unless there's a really good reason, and not just a lame "Making of". I still want to get the first two Animeigo boxes to complete my set as it is. It would just be odd to have 6 or so ADV discs sitting next to them. At least if that set is done, it'll feel right. As it is, I still technically have the first two RT boxes, though they're nowhere near each other.

That cover looks nice. It's still a bit weird seeing an ADV logo at the bottom though. I'll probably grab them when the prices fall like most of what they buy, assuming the extras are worth it(mostly that Mari Iijima commentary, though most anime commentaries I've seen are pretty lame).

[Agent ONE]

I want to change my vote.

[big F]

I want to change my vote.

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Well Agent no ones gonna argue with you!!