(SoI&F) Game of Thrones - BOOK READERS' TV & BOOKS THREAD

[Graham]

Just finished 'A Game of Thrones' last night. Awesome book.

As luck would have it, 'A Clash of Kings', 'A Storm of Swords 1 & 2' just arrived today from Amazon.....yay!

However, I've already started reading Murakami's latest book 'Kafka of the Shore', this morning, so I'll finish that before starting on 'A Clash Of Kings'.

Anyway, can any George R.R. Martin fan tell me if the following two books are worth getting?

The Hedge Knight.

The Art of George R.R. Martin's A Song Of Ice & Fire.

Graham

[the white drew carey]

The Hedge Knight- I've only read the original short story (about 80 pages or so). I guess the "Second Edition" is about twice as long and fleshes out the story a bit. It's supposed to be set about 100 years before the beginning of ASOIAF.

The Art of A Song of Ice and Fire- Who knows? I've put it on my Amazon wishlist, so let's see if anyone from my family actually loves me.

This website here, by the publisher of the art book, has a link that downloads a PDF version of four of the pages. Looks fairly good.

[the white drew carey]

OK- I was mistaken about The Hedge Knight that Graham has posted. The link you've listed is for a graphic novel version of the same short story (you can find the short story in the Legends compilation (you can find it in the HC version, or the Legends II paperback).

[Graham]

Ah, didn't notice that the link to Hedge Knight was for a graphic novel version. Well spotted WDC. In that case I won't buy it I think.

The art book does look nice though.

Graham

[ChrisG]

The Hedge Knight is well worth reading. It's set about 100 years before Game of Thrones, but it connects to the main series in a very subtle way you wouldn't expect. You can find The Hedge Knight in paperback in Legends, the anthology it was originally published in back in 1998. There's also another recent anthology out there called Legends II. It contains another story from Martin about the further adventures of Dunk and Egg, but I haven't read it yet.

[the white drew carey]

Okedokee-

Opened up my present and, lo and behold, I am now the proud owner of The Art of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire.

After a quick run through, it is very nice. The art ranges from average- where some of the artists ain't so good at faces or proportions, to amazing- pieces of art ranging from pencils to paintings to exquisite digital art. Overall, one of the better art books I've seen, and would be well worth the money (that is, if you can't get it as a gift, like me).

Almost done with Feast (I've been really busy lately), will post with thoughts once completed.

[Southpaw Samurai]

Opened up my present and, lo and behold, I am now the proud owner of The Art of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire.

Do you happen to know if its the same art and/or artists that have done the work for the collectible card game and RPG manual? If so, then I might pick it up. The art from those sources (not into CCGs, but I've seen some cards and wound up picking up the Bible size RPG tome just because I liked the look and flavor even though I may never actually play a paper and pencil RPG ever again) IS decidedly amateurish for the most part. But it's amateurish in a sort of cool, non-conformist way. Some of it is the kind of 'amateur, but it's got it's charm' look and some of it is the 'that's gorgeous!' look, so it sounds similar. In all cases, though, it doesn't have that 'over-processed, strict guidelines' feel that a lot of professional fantasy art falls under (see almost anything published by Wizards of the Coast).

[the white drew carey]

A lot of the art is from the CCG, but selected by Martin himself. Other pieces are test sketches from Testor for their upcoming miniature line. Other art is commissioned for the book itself.

In the forward, Martin himself decries the sometimes ametuerish work from the CCG, but praises the well done work from some of the artists.

[Guppy]

got the 4th book for xmas. I'm re-reading the first 3 again first.. man, these books are even better the second time around.

[Graham]

So who is everybody's favorite character?

I'm on the second book and so my favorite is Arya.

Graham

[the white drew carey]

Haha! It dependson how far you are as to who my favorite character is.

Arya is a great Point Of View (POV). Catelyn Stark, although being a tad misguuided at points is interesting as well, and Tyrion's a loveable little bastard.

Further along, Bran becomes a great POV and Jon Snow get's really good.

[Graham]

Without giving away any major spoilers, is it ever confirmed that Arya's Water Dancer teacher 'Syrio Forel', was killed in book one, while he was buying time for Arya to escape?

I'd assumed he was killed, but so far (I'm up to page 232 of book 2), there's been no mention that he was actually killed.

A simple 'he's dead' or 'he's alive' answer is what I'm looking for.

Oh, and Tyrion is probably my second favorite chracter.

Graham

[the white drew carey]

IIRC, Martin himself will neither confirm, nor deny Syrio's death.

[the white drew carey]

OK, I just finished Feast, my thoughts are below. To avoid spoilers, highlight to read:

For the first time in the series, I found each and every POV interesting, and didn't dread even when Sansa's parts came up. The problem I have is that the book's overall narrative flow seemed to be lacking. Stuff happened, but it still feels like nothing big happened (even though big things DID happen).

Now, the others have been hinted at as the true major threat of the series. The very last line in the book, "I'm Pate," the other said, "like the pig boy.", is interesting in the fact that one was led to assume this particular character was killed at the end of the prologue. I'm particularly concerned about Martin's use of referring to him as "the other", since we know that the others are the living dead, albeit only thought to come from beyond the wall, and are depicted as vicious, but basically mindless.

Overall, I liked the book, and it probably reads better when all of them are read in a continuous row (I had a bit of a break between 3 and 4). I'm terribly excited for Dance, as it will feature some of the most enjoyable characters.

[Graham]

Not reading the above spoiler as I'm still only on book two, about 65% of the way through. Gotta say I was suprised about what happened to Renly. I didn't see that coming. I liked him as well.

Just ordered The Art of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire for myself. Thinking about getting the D-20 RPG as well, even though I may also not end up ever playing it. Must be 10 years since I last played a tabletop RPG.

Gonna have to wait until early May 2006 to read A Feast for Crows, as that's when the paperback comes out . I never buy hardbacks even for books I really like as they take up too much space.

Any of you ever played the Game of Thrones board game? It seems to get good reviews.

Graham

[Plastik Missle]

Hi. I usually lurk, but I couldn't see an ASOIAF thread (I'm a huuuuge fan) without replying.

As for the game I own it (not the expansion though). And its great if you can find enough people to play (5 is optimal, but 4 isn't too bad). It accurately captures the feel of the books. Lots of wheeling and dealing and treachery.

[Graham]

At least 4 people to play huh .

I'd love to be able to try this game, but these days, when everyone's busy with either their work or kids, it's extremely difficult getting a group of friends together for several hours to play a board game or tabletop RPG.

Graham

[Graham]

Just received my copy of The Art of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire from amazon.

Pretty cool book.

Graham

[Plastik Missle]

At least 4 people to play huh .

I'd love to be able to try this game, but these days, when everyone's busy with either their work or kids, it's extremely difficult getting a group of friends together for several hours to play a board game or tabletop RPG.

Graham

357570[/snapback]

Actually you can play it as a 3-player game but a lot of the atmosphere and backstabbing is gone. And I know your pain, its very hard to round up 4 players much less 5.

[Graham]

I'm on the last few pages of A Clash Of Kings, but I'm a little confused over one point and hoping somebody here can clear up the matter for me, as it's really bugging me.

(The following question contains spoilers, so don't read on if you haven't yet read A Clash Of Kings)

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Why does Ramsey Snow who has previously been posing as Reek, kill Ser Rodrik Cassel and burn Winterfell? Shouldn't Ramsey Snow be on the side of Winterfell and the Starks? We know that Ramsey Snow is Roose Bolton's Bastard and Roose Bolton is fighting for Robb Stark. The fact that Ramsey is able to command 600 men from the Dreadfort garrison implies that he has his father's trust.

Graham

[Plastik Missle]

I'm on the last few pages of A Clash Of Kings, but I'm a little confused over one point and hoping somebody here can clear up the matter for me, as it's really bugging me.

(The following question contains spoilers, so don't read on if you haven't yet read A Clash Of Kings)

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Why does Ramsey Snow who has previously been posing as Reek, kill Ser Rodrik Cassel and burn Winterfell? Shouldn't Ramsey Snow be on the side of Winterfell and the Starks? We know that Ramsey Snow is Roose Bolton's Bastard and Roose Bolton is fighting for Robb Stark. The fact that Ramsey is able to command 600 men from the Dreadfort garrison implies that he has his father's trust.

Graham

357820[/snapback]

Just keep reading Graham. Suffice to say Ramsey has his own agenda. Won't be really clear until the next book.

[Southpaw Samurai]

Graham, it isn't answered specifically yet (I haven't read FoC yet...given my disappointment in POV choices, I can wait for the paperback), but there's several possibilities.

///////////MINOR SPOILERS//////////////

1) Ramsay's a bastard (in more ways than one, come to think of it). He and his father dont necessarily get along. Ramsay's also a criminal in the eyes of the Starks and their bannerman for his acts. So perhaps Ramsay's doing it out of personal vendetta. How he got men from Dreadfort might be by using his heritage (even if Lord Bolton doesn't necessarily fully acknowledge him, he's currently Roose's only living son) and perhaps he just played up on the historical animosity the people of the Bolton lands feel towards the people from the Stark lands (I forget when they talk about that, hence the spoiler warning, even though it's more historical background than anything else).

2) Certain dealings that will play out in SoS might have already been in effect at this point and Ramsay might just be an opportunistic instrument of it. I can say no more without turning this ino a much bigger spoiler.

///////////SPOILERS DONE///////////

[Graham]

Just saw the news about the upcoming 1/18 scale A Song Of Ice & Fire figures from Testors. They look pretty nice.

Graham

[renegadeleader1]

hmmm... Gratuitous sex graphic vilence and main charcters dying... it reminds me of Mike Stackpole. I should check this series out

[the white drew carey]

As some of you may or may not be aware, HBO is currently in the casting process for a pilot for A Game of Thrones, simply titled Game of Thrones. If the pilot goes well HBO will pick up the series. Based on the initial details leaked several years ago, each book will comprise of one season on TV.

Here is the current known casting as verified by several sources, including GRRM himself:

Sean Bean as Eddard Stark

Jennifer Ehle as Catelyn Stark

Richard Madden as Robb Stark

Sophie Turner as Sansa Stark (not the Dr. Who Sophie Turner)

Masie Williams as Arya Stark

Kit Harrington as Jon Snow

Alfie Allen as Theon Greyjoy

Mark Addy as Robert Baretheon

Lena Headey as Cersei Lannister

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau as Jaime Lannister

Peter Dinklage as Tyrion Lannister

Jack Gleeson as Joffrey Baratheon

Tamzin Merchant as Daenerys Targaryen

Harry LLyod as Viserys Targaryen

Iain Glenn as Jorah Mormont

So far, a pretty good cast. I can't say that I imagined Eddard Stark looking like Sean Bean but, then again, Sean Bean is pretty awesome. And it will be great to see him play a good character.

I was surprised about Lena Headey as Cersei. For one, I can't imagine her blonde, and I figured she's got the dramatic chops to play Catelyn, who has so much on her shoulders. Then again, maybe Lena Headey wanted the challenging role of Cersei.

And, I must say, Peter Dinklage has always been my imaginary vision of Tyrion, not because he's ugly and malformed (makeup will have to do that), but the snarky quality he can bring to a character will be so well served in Tyrion that it is almost frightening!

Casting should be wrapping up shortly, and filming is set to take place in the UK starting in October. Let us all hope for the best, and pray that an ASOIAF series can fill the void that BSG left behind!

Other than that, no recent news regarding A Dance with Dragons. Initial hopes were that it would be released this month, but that obviously isn't happening. I kind of wish GRRM would stop putzing around with editing his Wilds Cards anthologies and just get back to ASOIAF!

[the_foul_fowl]

Argh, when this topic came out, I thought it was to announce that ADoD was DONE!

If each book is supposed to be one TV season, then it's gonna be a long time before it'll ever be completed, since there're supposed to be 7 books, and we're only up to the 4th book, with what looks like a minimum of 4 years between each book...

Still, the cast looks good, but I hope the TV adaptation is well structured. As much as I think ASoIaF is THE fantasy series today, the large number of characters and locales can be quite confusing even as a novel, and could be a huge problem for the TV show...

[the white drew carey]

Argh, when this topic came out, I thought it was to announce that ADoD was DONE!

If each book is supposed to be one TV season, then it's gonna be a long time before it'll ever be completed, since there're supposed to be 7 books, and we're only up to the 4th book, with what looks like a minimum of 4 years between each book...

Still, the cast looks good, but I hope the TV adaptation is well structured. As much as I think ASoIaF is THE fantasy series today, the large number of characters and locales can be quite confusing even as a novel, and could be a huge problem for the TV show...

True, methinks that it will be, well not "dumbed down" per se, but some of the structure and storylines may be adjusted. That being said, I see no reason why it can't keep the complexity. Those who crave good story telling will stick around (if it is good) and those who get confused will slip by the wayside.

That is one thing, though, GRRM better pick up the pace, or else they're going to catch up to him before he finishes the last book.

[the white drew carey]

BTW- I'm re-reading the series now (started in anticipation for ADWD, but we all know how that's been delayed again), and I must reiterate how much I love this series.

However, I find myself a bit troubled by my reaction to the Red Wedding. Never before have I had such a visceral response to an event depicted in fiction, especially fantasy fiction. As with my first time through the series, I soooo want the whole Frey clan to pay for what they've done, and one of my primary expectations over the next three books is for that to happen. But, knowing GRRM and how everything doesn't always come up rosey, I wouldn't be surprised if they get let off the hook somehow.

Argh!

p.s.-if you can't tell, I just got past that part in ASOS.

[the white drew carey]

If you live in the UK or NW Europe, and want to be an extra in the Game of Thrones pilot/series, a casting call has gone out for experienced horseriders:

HBO have begun production in Belfast of their latest TV series 'A Game of Thrones' based on George R.R. Martin's award winning novel of the same name. Described as "an epic struggle for power set in a vast and violent fantasy kingdom" - our extras are surely in for a treat. The starring cast includes Sean Bean, Mark Addy, Peter Dinklage and Lena Headey amongst many more.

Filming is due to take place in Northern Ireland in the last week of October and first two weeks of November and of course all our medieval and character faces that have been used on Universal's feature film "Your Highness" will be at the top of the list for this project, however, the thing we urgently require for paid work are CONFIDENT & EXPERIENCED MALE HORSERIDERS, aged 16-60. If this describes you or someone you know, please send in a clear photo along with full name, height and contact telephone numbers to carla@extrasni.com URGENTLY.

Edited September 29, 2009 by the white drew carey

[the white drew carey]

According to Winter is Coming, a website devoted to news regarding the TV adaptation, HBO programming execs saw the pilot episode in late January and have now decided to pick up 9 more episodes (for a total of 10, including the pilot). It is unknown if those new episodes will be judged by HBO during filming to see if they like where the series is going, and then they will make a full season commitment, or if 10 episodes is all they plan for season 1.

Personally, I prefer the former. 10 one-hour long episodes simply isn't enough to cover the first book without heavy editing of the storyline, editing which will eviscerate the story to such a point that it will probably be very weak. Let's see what happens.

Also, HBO has released their first bit of promotional material:

Edited March 3, 2010 by the white drew carey

[Mr March]

An order of 10 episodes IS a "full season" of HBO programming. HBO series are typically 10-13 episodes per season. Also keep in mind an HBO episode is typically 55 minutes per episode, not the 42 minutes common for broadcast television. They don't waste time in the average HBO series; every episode is relevant story. If you've never seen an HBO series, know that an HBO series episode covers a lot of ground.

I think we should be optimistic HBO is doing this series. If A Song of Ice and Fire displays a high level of quality like The Wire, Deadwood, Band of Brothers or Rome, the results will be spectacular. I've never read the books, so short of injecting one into my already full plate of reading material I can't think of a better way to bring the series to television than for HBO to do it.

[crasis]

Wow! I've been so out of the loop with this stuff, since GRR Martin news is generally very slow to come. I'm beyond excited that my favorite book series of all time is officially getting at least one tv season. I've never had a reason to sign up for HBO before, but I'm damned tempted now.

[Graham]

A least it's HBO and not Fox.

Graham

[the white drew carey]

An order of 10 episodes IS a "full season" of HBO programming. HBO series are typically 10-13 episodes per season. Also keep in mind an HBO episode is typically 55 minutes per episode, not the 42 minutes common for broadcast television. They don't waste time in the average HBO series; every episode is relevant story. If you've never seen an HBO series, know that an HBO series episode covers a lot of ground.

I think we should be optimistic HBO is doing this series. If A Song of Ice and Fire displays a high level of quality like The Wire, Deadwood, Band of Brothers or Rome, the results will be spectacular. I've never read the books, so short of injecting one into my already full plate of reading material I can't think of a better way to bring the series to television than for HBO to do it.

Trust me, I've seen a lot of HBO series, and I know how they operate. That is exactly why I am worried that ten eps won't be enough, even with all of the storytelling they can fit in.

If you read the books, you'll see what I mean. GRRM doesn't waste much time, either. And a whole lot happens in his books (except for maybe A Feast for Crows which, hopefully, will be combined with the forthcoming A Dance with Dragons and then split into two seasons).

[Mr March]

Trust me, I've seen a lot of HBO series, and I know how they operate. That is exactly why I am worried that ten eps won't be enough, even with all of the storytelling they can fit in.

If you read the books, you'll see what I mean. GRRM doesn't waste much time, either. And a whole lot happens in his books (except for maybe A Feast for Crows which, hopefully, will be combined with the forthcoming A Dance with Dragons and then split into two seasons).

I think such worry as this is terribly exaggerated. But truth be told all we can do is wait and see what results. I think we've got more reason to be hopeful than otherwise.

A least it's HBO and not Fox.

Graham

Precisely.