(SoI&F) Game of Thrones - BOOK READERS' TV & BOOKS THREAD

[the white drew carey]

So, I have A Feast for Crows on order from SFBC and was just curious if anyone else has gotten into this series and what their thoughts on it are.

For those who don't know, A Song of Ice and Fire is an exciting fantasy series by George R.R. Martin which has some crazy politics, some crazy sex and some incredibly brutal violence. The four books thus far in the series are:

A Game of Thrones

A Clash of Kings

A Storm of Swords

and the newly released A Feast for Crows

There are several things I enjoy about this series: 1) The books seem to tell so much story for their size. Martin is a descriptive writer who also seems to pack a lot of substance into each chapter. 2) Magic is present in these books, but is rarely seen for most of the books, and it's rarely explained which makes it very mysterious. 3) The violence. The brutality displayed in these books is no punches pulled, throw little kids off of towers, kind of violence. It's gruesome and oh so good! 4) Most importantly, no character is safe. Main characters with established plotlines can, and are, killed off at the most unsuspecting moments. Which, in turn, throws the whole story off.

Anyhow, I suppose there are going to be seven books in the series (there were going to be six, but A Feast for Crows was written when Martin realized he couldn't pull off a five year gap between A Storm of Swords and the book he originally planned next, A Dance with Dragons). So we have three more to anticipate.

Any thoughts, kids?

[GreenGuy42]

What can I say about it? I love the series, I mean, really, really love the series.

I'm about halfway through A Feast of Crows. From what I've heard, it's the least popular in the series so far, as it's been focusing on minor lord/characters that don't drive the story, but I'm liking the break.

When's Dance due out?

[the white drew carey]

I'm not sure when Dance is due, but considering Feast just came out this month, it may be a while.

It's a heartening thought, though, to consider that Martin was over halfway through his manuscript for Dance when he decided to write Feast to bridge the gap, so he's got a lot of it done. I wouldn't be surprised if we see it within a year and a half.

[Agent ONE]

Never heard of it... Link me to a good fansite so I can read more about it.

[wolfx]

For those who don't know, A Song of Ice and Fire is an exciting fantasy series by George R.R. Martin which has some crazy politics, some crazy sex and some incredibly brutal violence.

Sounds like my kinda series....it better be good.

[Guppy]

Love it. Best fantasy series I've ever read. I'm a big fan of Gemmell and others, but this is the best. Problem is, it's so politically, character and plot deep I have to read the books again before I get Crows. I've been waiting for this book since I finished the last page of Storm of Swords.

IIRC, Martin split this book into 2 books as it became so huge, so the next book is due in a year or so. I can't remember if that one will be the final book. I hope so. I don't want another Robert Frigging Jordan.

[twich]

Did not know the latest came out, but have really enjoyed the previous books...will have to check it out.

Twich

[the white drew carey]

Love it. Best fantasy series I've ever read. I'm a big fan of Gemmell and others, but this is the best. Problem is, it's so politically, character and plot deep I have to read the books again before I get Crows. I've been waiting for this book since I finished the last page of Storm of Swords.

IIRC, Martin split this book into 2 books as it became so huge, so the next book is due in a year or so. I can't remember if that one will be the final book. I hope so. I don't want another Robert Frigging Jordan.

346522[/snapback]

Here's the word from the man himself: Martin's update on Feast from May '05.

[Roy Focker]

Fantasty books?

Okay fatso don't let me find your fat bald and geesy faces riding the bus.

[Mr March]

Fantasty books?

Okay fatso don't let me find your fat bald and geesy faces riding the bus.

346618[/snapback]

You'll have to be content with my slim, trim, and devilishly handsome face seen reading these books on the bus

[Agent ONE]

I have A.D.D... I can't read for pleasure. Only when I have to.

[Southpaw Samurai]

As much as I've enjoyed the first three books of the series (whereas I couldn't get very far into any of Jordan's stuff), I came here not to praise ASoF&I, but to warn people:

1) There's more political backstabbing than combat sword swinging for the most part. It's not a bad thing necessarily, especially when you have an author who writes better political intrigue than fighting and knows it. But anyone going in hoping for detailed fights or grand stories of battles will be disappointed. Martin only tells parts of battles that are important to a character at that moment.

2) There's a LOT of characters. The cast is outrageously large and you are never sure if a minor character has been named just to have him named (or show his lineage) or if it might be important to remember him for a later event. I personally sort of dig this, but I've spent some time studying various European and Asian courts and their entourages, vassals, extended families, and hanger-ons. Some might find it overwhelming, though.

3) It's all told from various POV's. This is generally a good thing, as you can read a chapter at a time and put it aside and feel like you're reading viginettes. It also gives you insight into various characters and in the end everyone feels more human and less blatantly 'good' or 'evil'. The downside is that you're in almost double trouble if a chapter is about a character you care little for or dislike. You not only have to deal with a chapter on that character, but deal with almost living in their head. You'll probably find yourself looking forward to the next chapter of your favorite characters and loathe seeing a chapter named after a least favorite. This apparently becomes a big issue in the fourth book, which lacks some people's favorite characters altogether (including my favorite little fellow).

I like the series a lot...probably my favorite entertainment read I've done in a bit...but it's easily not for everyone. It's almost as if you were putting together the historical events of some past war through the journals of some creative participants. If you could care less about how Ser Guy of Green is the third son of Lord Carey by way of the second daughter of King A1 and how he won two tourneys, but never obtained a position in court because of machinations of Lords Fokker and March...or had a hard time even digesting that sentence, look elsewhere.

[Roy Focker]

I have A.D.D... I can't read for pleasure.  Only when I have to.

346682[/snapback]

So you have to read every topic that mentions Macross 7?

[Agent ONE]

I have A.D.D... I can't read for pleasure.  Only when I have to.

346682[/snapback]

So you have to read every topic that mentions Macross 7?

346720[/snapback]

Yeah! It pisses me off!

[Guppy]

Love it. Best fantasy series I've ever read. I'm a big fan of Gemmell and others, but this is the best. Problem is, it's so politically, character and plot deep I have to read the books again before I get Crows. I've been waiting for this book since I finished the last page of Storm of Swords.

IIRC, Martin split this book into 2 books as it became so huge, so the next book is due in a year or so. I can't remember if that one will be the final book. I hope so. I don't want another Robert Frigging Jordan.

346522[/snapback]

Here's the word from the man himself: Martin's update on Feast from May '05.

346550[/snapback]

I remember reading that when I was starving to death waiting for the next book. His exacto knife solution is great!

As I mentioned David Gemmell, go check out his new book Lord of the Silver Bow. Factual based on ancient Greek times! He's changes his usual format a lot: no magic and almost all the 'good' characters have a lot of 'bad' in em.

[Graham]

Just bought book one today after reading the recommendations in this thread.

Graham

[myk]

If there are pictures I'm game.

[Less than Super Ostrich]

I was a big fan of Song of Ice and Fire series. But this book stinks. This guy is getting more perverted with each book. If you took out all the gratuitous sex... the book would be half as thick. Worst book of the series. Very disappointed.

[the white drew carey]

LTSO- Are you referring to Feast?

I'll admit, Martin's got this thing about gratuitous sex, just like his gratuitous violence, I guess.

I remember when I first started reading this series I kept joking around with my wife about the unusually frequent mentions of "engorged breasts" and incestuous unions.

BTW- I just learned of this book: A Song of Ice and Firre artbook. One reviewer says the art is quite good and the book is bound well. Hell, I'm up for anything after the crap-fest of artwork in The World of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time!!!

I'm still waiting for my copy of Feast to arrive. In the meantime, in leiu of staring any new novels, I'm reading through my Calvin and Hobbes collection. So things could be worse.

[Less than Super Ostrich]

I am talking about Feast. Don't get me wrong... I love the series and will buy each book. I'm just saying his perverseness is getting worse with each book. It really detracts from the story lines.

[Shaggydog]

As you can guess from my username, I'm a big fan.

Especially since Jordan seemingly lost control of his series, A Song of Ice and Fire is the best epic fantasy out there, IMO.

But then again, I like Toynami Veritechs, too, so you might not wanna take my word for it

[Southpaw Samurai]

I was a big fan of Song of Ice and Fire series. But this book stinks. This guy is getting more perverted with each book. If you took out all the gratuitous sex... the book would be half as thick. Worst book of the series. Very disappointed.

348308[/snapback]

I haven't been looking forward to Feast because of the POVs chosen (most of my favorites get little to no chapters and I REALLY don't want to spend time in Cersei's head) and because of complaints that he's almost going Jordan-like in not moving the overall plot along much, but now it seems like I have another thing to not look forward to.

I'm hardly a prude, but I have to completely agree that he's been getting more descriptive and lengthy and even a little weird maybe in each successive books. What there was in the first book at times seemed like the perfect bawdy banter people might exchange (particularly pseudo medieval folk) and the few actual acts seemed appropriate because of how the character was involved. But even by Storm of Swords we had nearly an entire chapter devoted to one character's sexual escapades (leading up to his introducing cunnilingus to a wild culture) all done in a sort of 'Penthouse letters' style. His having sex (and doing it many times quite happily) WAS important to the story, but the details weren't.

As TWDC said, his sex and violence have been somewhat gratuitous, but there's times where being overly descriptive may have an artistic point and times where it serves no purpose and starts to come across as immature even.

[the white drew carey]

Well, as I have yet to read Feast, I cannot comment. But, thus far, I have no problems with the sex he writes about. People make dirty whoopee all of the time. Why he should he be brazen about his descriptions of violence and yet shun decriptions of the naughty-naughty?

Shaggydog- my wife just finished the new Jordan book and says that it's very good, and that he seems to have gotten the story back on track. Just an FYI.

[Graham]

Book 1 arrived from Amazon yesterday, but have yet to start it as I have a few other books to read through first.

I've just got to ask what the heck is wrong with gratuitous sex?

Graham

[Shaggydog]

Book 1 arrived from Amazon yesterday, but have yet to start it as I have a few other books to read through first.

I've just got to ask what the heck is wrong with gratuitous sex?

Graham

348476[/snapback]

Amen, brother.

A big focus of the series is medieval politics, and I figure sex played a pretty big role in that. Seems entirely appropriate. And as anyone who reads 'savage love' can attest, the world is chock full of freaks and perverts. God bless 'em.

drew: I read the latest Jordan book myself. While it sorta gets things back on track, to me it still seems like he's lost his touch. It's just not as creative or interesting as the first books were. But, mileage may vary. I'll be reading the rest of the series in any case

[Guest Bromgrev]

I've just got to ask what the heck is wrong with gratuitous sex?

348476[/snapback]

As long as it's well written.

Is it well written? Somebody post some extracts so we can all judge whether it adds to the overall artistic merit of the story ...

[Less than Super Ostrich]

Book 1 arrived from Amazon yesterday, but have yet to start it as I have a few other books to read through first.

I've just got to ask what the heck is wrong with gratuitous sex?

Graham

348476[/snapback]

Graham... look up the definition of gratuitous and there is your answer. I don't mean to be flip, but if you've read the series then you will know what I mean. He just keeps adding more and more and more. Maybe my point of view has changed since I started having kids. But I think even someone without kids would agree that the use of sex in this book is starting to get a little silly.

[the white drew carey]

I've just got to ask what the heck is wrong with gratuitous sex?

348476[/snapback]

As long as it's well written.

Is it well written? Somebody post some extracts so we can all judge whether it adds to the overall artistic merit of the story ...

348540[/snapback]

As and you shall recieve:

1st chapter excerpt

This is an excerpt of the 1st chapter (after the prologue) of the 1st book A Game of Thrones. One key feature to note is that, already, he is name-dropping a bunch of important people and a bunch of important aspects of society, but doesn't quite explain them... yet. That's one thing I like about him is how he shoves you into and then slowly let's you rely on him to teach you how to swim, instead of coddling you at the beginning.

[Shaggydog]

Book 1 arrived from Amazon yesterday, but have yet to start it as I have a few other books to read through first.

I've just got to ask what the heck is wrong with gratuitous sex?

Graham

348476[/snapback]

Graham... look up the definition of gratuitous and there is your answer. I don't mean to be flip, but if you've read the series then you will know what I mean. He just keeps adding more and more and more. Maybe my point of view has changed since I started having kids. But I think even someone without kids would agree that the use of sex in this book is starting to get a little silly.

348596[/snapback]

Well, I've read the first three books and I'm about a third of the way through "A Feast for Crows", and I disagree with you. I like the sex, I think it adds flavor to the books. (Oh, and I have kids.)

Now, if you want to argue that Jordan shows a little too much fascination for the humiliation of bitchy women (and that pretty much covers all of the women in Jordan's books), I think you might have a case...

[Less than Super Ostrich]

Well, I've read the first three books and I'm about a third of the way through "A Feast for Crows", and I disagree with you.  I like the sex, I think it adds flavor to the books.  (Oh, and I have kids.)

Now, if you want to argue that Jordan shows a little too much fascination for the humiliation of bitchy women (and that pretty much covers all of the women in Jordan's books), I think you might have a case...

348604[/snapback]

My opinion... that's all. He's a pervert. There's adding flavor and then there's gratuitous. You can't go four pages without a highly descriptive rape of a woman. I'm exaggerating only slightly, but it IS excessive is my opinion.

[the white drew carey]

I just got Feast on thursday, so I've only begun. I'll finish up and present my thoughts afterwards. On page 140 and, thus far, no gratuitous sex or rapes!!!

[Graham]

Just up to page 64 of the first book 'Game of Thrones' and no gratuitous sex so far .

Graham

[the white drew carey]

No gratuitous sex, but in about 10 or so pages, things take a header.

[Graham]

Gotta say a big 'thank you' to the white drew carey for bring this series of books to my attention.

I'm about 600 pages into 'A Game of Thrones' now and absolutely loving it. Best book I've read in a long, long time.

I like it so much that when I was just 200 pages into A Game of Thrones, I ordered the rest of the books without hesitating.

Although I grew up on sword & sorcery books such as R.E. Howards's Conan stories and Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion books, I'm not much into the fantasy genre these days, instead prefering contemporary thrillers, or hard science fiction stories. So it came as a big surprise to me that I'm enjoying it so much.

Still no gratuitous sex though . Yes, there's some sex scenes, but they are faily short and don't go into much descriptive detail. Certainly not the 'Penthouse Letters' standard I was expecting after reading Less than Super Ostrich's comments in this thread.

Graham

[the white drew carey]

Well, if you've gotten this far and don't think the sex is gratuitous, consider yourself safe, because it doesn't really get much worse. There may be a few more "hard-riding" moments (heh, heh) but, overall, that's about as extreme as it gets, IMHO.

I'm about halfway through FEAST and I'm liking it thus far. As of yet, I don't think there's been one sex scene, but maybe they're coming up.

MINOR SPOILERS for those who haven't gotten to FEAST yet: (highlight to read)

So far, it's been tough going trying to follow a small group of fairly minor characters (as we know them yet) and some new ones. The story telling is top-notch and I'm, sure many of the events featured in FEAST will be replayed from some of the more major character's veiwpoints in DANCE. So far this series has not let me down one bit! As of now, I'm curious where the storylines of Arya and Brienne are leading us. Finally, the situations surrounding Sansa are making her chapters a bit easier to stomach (ohhhh... how I hated reading Sansa). While the Ironmen story seems to be dragging out, I'm pretty sure I can see where they will become a major plot point in future novels, if they don't do so already in the next half.