A Terrible Nightmare

[Spatula]

Do you ever have those dreams where your precious kit which you slaved for 12 hours on a Saturday is placed nicely to dry ready to work the next day, then you come down with great anticipation, just to find that your kit...well...melted?

Yes, this is a terrible nightmare, but also it was to my horror to find in reality that my Elintseeker just... melted.

Here's what happened:

I wanted this valkyrie in flight mode, therefore the bottom antenna proped down, and the landing gears up. I thought this would be an excellent idea and since Cheng did show some detail of how to do it, I thought it'd be great!

Instead of putting the gears in, I flooded the whole cavity of the bay with squadron putty. Now, this seemed like a great idea so I could just easily paste the bay gear doors on it so I didn't have to worry about it caving out or anything.

The thing I didin't know is that this putty is very acidic in large quantities. This leaked right into the engine and the cockpit. To my horror, whenever you poked the bay doors or the cock pit, you could actually put a finger nail mark on it! The plastic turned pretty much into gooey mess and I was crying. OMG.

Please tell me your horror stories, or what putty/epoxy to use so I never run into this again.

I didn't follow Chengs method since my computer died on the weekend and I'm using a different PC now to type this. I'm forever sad.

[fulcy]

It's not that Squadron putty is acidic in large quantities, or acidic at all - it contains chemicals which melt styrene - mainly so that it can bond effectively to styrene (the most common material model kits are made of). Use it in small quanitities, it's fine - it will dry and cure before the chemical has a chance to melt alot of the plastic, and once cured, the chemical no longer melts the plastic. But, if you use it in large enough quantities, it takes a very very VERY long time to cure - I believe it's an evaporative process (that's why if you leave the cap off the tube, any of the putty exposed to the air forms a skin, that isn't sticky - remove the skin, and it's still liquid underneath). The putty and plastic will eventually harden, but it will take a long time to cure... Sorry to hear this happened to your kit!

[zeo-mare]

oh god that is horrible. do you have any pictures of it? as for me the worst thing that i had was a 1/60 G Gundam kit i airbrushed the parts and they were drying , i had all the parts on pegs the whole thing fell over and on the ground (about 20 plus parts) in my basement. my basement is pretty much gravel and dirt so that parts were a mess and dirt was stuck to the paint. this would happen twice to me for this kit ( I never had this problem for any other kit) i finally get the thing done and i had it fall off of a shelf and parts break as well as paint chips everywhere, because of the loose joints this to would happen more then once as well. The kit was such a nightmare for me i put so much work into it and every other week i was back to square one. i ended up selling the kit on ebay with a Gundam model kit lot.

chris

Edited November 21, 2005 by zeo-mare

[Penguin]

Please tell me your horror stories, or what putty/epoxy to use so I never run into this again. 

346232[/snapback]

Personally, I wouldn't use putty for this. The method I've used (same as WM mentioned) is to use rolled-up balls of clay (just simple, non-greasy white clay - a block of it is $4 at Chinook Hobby) to support the bay doors when you want them in a gear-up position. If you want, you could fill the entire wheel-well with it, which I've done occasionally for small wells (like the nosewheel well on my VF-4).

I don't have any horror stories myself, but I do remember my brother giving me a call one day, lamenting how the mast on his model of the Titanic had become all spongy and melted when he was attaching the rigging. Seems he used an abundance of good ol' Testors glue in the orange tube rather than white glue, which of course destroyed the mast. Naturally, being a good brother, I spent half an hour the next weekend alternately mocking him and helping him trim and shape a new mast from leftover sprue pieces.

Edited November 21, 2005 by Penguin

[Spatula]

YES! White Glue. I'm intending to somehow salvage the Elintseeker with some good parts. The FAST Packs, wings, and the main fuselage are all still okay, as is the front engine intakes. Those are detachable from the S part.

I'm intending to mount this on a base for flight mode. Note to self...use White Glue. What type of white glue do you recommend?

[Stamen0083]

White glue is not great for stresses. Don't use white glue to glue heavy model parts. The white glue Penguin used was probably for thin wires.

So lesson learned. Don't use Squadron or any gap filling putty to pack a crevice. Get some epoxy putty. I like Milliput myself.

[Dangard Ace]

That sucks. Would've been nice to see more models made. If your restorative efforts don't work you could always turn it into a battle-damaged destroyed valk scene.

[Spatula]

White glue is not great for stresses. Don't use white glue to glue heavy model parts. The white glue Penguin used was probably for thin wires.

So lesson learned. Don't use Squadron or any gap filling putty to pack a crevice. Get some epoxy putty. I like Milliput myself.

346281[/snapback]

Yes, lesson learned the hardway. How does epoxy work? Is it as "corrosive" or adhesive as the squad putty? I want to avoid using that now, just for small cracks and such.

That sucks.  Would've been nice to see more models made.  If your restorative efforts don't work you could always turn it into a battle-damaged destroyed valk scene.

346292[/snapback]

Yes, the Zendrati forces are now using beam weapons to melt away armor, oh wait, they've always been doing that.

[Mechamaniac]

I had something similar (though not as destructive) happen myself. I used Squadron putty on the Yamato Valkyrie Launch Arm to putty in the screw holes. I put a little bit on, and minutes later, when I went to wipe off some excess, I found that it had melted the plastic underneath it.

I scraped it off, and chucked the entire tube.

[fernarias]

Yes, the toluene (a volatile organic compound that makes up to 40% to 50% of lacquer thinner) in the squadron putty will eat though plastic. You should realistically use spaudron putty only as a scratch filler prior to final priming. For anything bigger than a scratch, including adding detail etc., you should use an epoxy putty like Magic Sculpt (find it here: http://www.sculpt.com/catalog_98/CastingMa...icsculp0001.htm ). Other people here use Milliput but for the price of 4 oz of Milliput you can get 1 lb of Magic Scupt and it's pretty much the same thing.

F.

[Solscud007]

I was building the Macross 2 modle VF-2SS and I painted it with Testors enamel spraypaint. After drying I put the armor on and the hinges crumbled. Some how the paint ate the plastic.

[Stamen0083]

Milliput is a two-part putty. Mix equal parts of A and B (both included in one pack) thoroughly and it dries and hardens. It can then be carved, machined, sanded, filed, drilled, etc... It's just sticky, and it doesn't melt anything.

Solscud: Sometimes plastic parts have microfractures at stress points, and if paint solvents get into those cracks, the plastic crumbles. I've had it happen to me before when I stripped the paint from a Gundam kit by soaking it in paint thinner.

Edited November 21, 2005 by Stamen0083

[Spatula]

One time when I was buildling the USS Enterprise Carrier, I was trying to scratch build some blocks supplies as props etc, so I took shavings off the tree and made some cylinder blocks. I put on testors glue and sanded them immediately, just by the heat of the friction of the sanding and my heat of the hands, it started to already melt! Good thing this was just a part of the tree, not the real model.

TAMIYA/ TESTORS GLUE + IMMEDIATE SANDING = MELTED PLASTIC!

[Sar]

You should realistically use spaudron putty only as a scratch filler prior to final priming.

346305[/snapback]

Quite seriously, the more I play around with different putties, fillers and so on the more I don't understand why anyone actually uses squadron green putty at all. It's not robust, toluene is aromatic (making it probably more damaging to your health than everything else you encounter for the rest of the day put together - just read the safety warnings on the back of the tube!) and it doesn't even have a great finish compared to some. If you need large areas filling, you could use something like milliput; if you need scratches filling, then a thick acrylic paint (like, say, GW's) will do just as good a job as squadron green.

I guess if you're using lacquer paints on a regular basis you probably have the set-up to use toluene putty safely, but do you?

[Spatula]

As stated above, I had not much clue of what it really was, so I used squad white/green putty with reckless abandon. Now I know.... >_>

[Myersjessee]

Ack...thats one that was good for me to read! Thanks for the warning and sorry for your problems.

[Penguin]

White glue is not great for stresses. Don't use white glue to glue heavy model parts. The white glue Penguin used was probably for thin wires.

346281[/snapback]

Precisely. I use regular old Elmer's white glue for rigging (which is usually just coarse black thread) and for canopies on resin kits. I wouldn't recommend it for anything else on a model kit.

[MechTech]

Yeah, I got a nightmare. It involves a beautiful 1/200 scratchbuilt fanliner (Hikaru's yellow one) with opening canopies, spinning fan blade and two months of work. My three year old "melted" mine. I saw this pin head sized landing gear door on my bookshelf and thought, NOOOOoooo! I looked in the case I keep it in and well - it was in a lot more pieces than when I finished it off. How she got up that high is a mystery!? I don't honestly know if I can fix it. It may be easier to make a new one. I always wanted to do the fan racer(red and white one), but it has to wait for my Daedalus project.

[Stamen0083]

TAMIYA/ TESTORS GLUE + IMMEDIATE SANDING = MELTED PLASTIC!

346314[/snapback]

You don't need immediate sanding to melt plastic. Styrene glue plus styrene equals automatically melted plastic. That's how the pieces bond together.

[big F]

Yeah, I got a nightmare.  It involves a beautiful 1/200 scratchbuilt fanliner (Hikaru's yellow one) with opening canopies, spinning fan blade and two months of work.  My three year old "melted" mine.  I saw this pin head sized landing gear door on my bookshelf and thought, NOOOOoooo!  I looked in the case I keep it in and well - it was in a lot more pieces than when I finished it off.  How she got up that high is a mystery!?  I don't honestly know if I can fix it.  It may be easier to make a new one.  I always wanted to do the fan racer(red and white one), but it has to wait for my Daedalus project.

346355[/snapback]

Ouch!!!

Didnt you know that small children can levitate and open child proof caps on pill bottles and will always find felt tip pens wherever you hide them.

Hope you get the chance to rework it and fix it up.

[Major Johnathan]

Yes, the toluene (a volatile organic compound that makes up to 40% to 50% of lacquer thinner) in the squadron putty will eat though plastic.  You should realistically use spaudron putty only as a scratch filler prior to final priming.  For anything bigger than a scratch, including adding detail etc., you should use an epoxy putty like Magic Sculpt (find it here:  http://www.sculpt.com/catalog_98/CastingMa...icsculp0001.htm ).  Other people here use Milliput but for the price of 4 oz of Milliput you can get 1 lb of Magic Scupt and it's pretty much the same thing.

F.

346305[/snapback]

I'm a big fan of Magic Sculpt, it doesn't in any way heat up/melt plastic, I use it all the time as filler in airplane nose cones to hold led weight. Of course it's great sculpting material because it doesn't shrink and simply air dry's. It's also very non-toxic. You also don't have to worry about precise 50-50 mixtures, just eyeballing it works fine. I buy the 5lb kit and it easily lasts me a year or more.

I still use putty on fine seams, but that's it.

Yes, I too wrecked a model plane or two trying to use putty as filler...

[wm cheng]

Argh!! So sorry to hear about your tragedy Spatula...

I've just had about everything happen to me. I've completely finished a Enterprise-E with all the intricate panelling all airbrushed - and after a month, I started noticing that the lower portion of the main saucer had a little divit in it, and when I pressed it, it was soft to the touch. Over the next few days, it grew and grew to cover 1/5 of the entire underside of the main saucer section - it was like a soft warped ripple. Apparently, I used too much testor's orange tube cement (which I still use all the time now) and it was still acting on the styrene months after I finished the model. It has now re-hardened, but the melted ripple is now permanently on the underside - and I can't see putting all that effort in re-building it (so its sits really low on my shelf ). It will eventually re-harden, but not without deforming the plastic - possibly months later. I've sworn off squadron putty years ago - I didn't have your problem of melting, but I find that stuff really hard to work with, just more aggravation than its worth. I almost exclusively use Tamiya regular putty now, its amazing and sands beautifully, but occassionally, if you let it sit in the tube too long, you will see a whitish liquid separate out of the grey putty, this is the solvent that allows the putty to attach to the styrene (and could melt the styrene) all I do is wipe the excess whitish liquid away with a paper towel and continue to use the putty. Sometimes if I want a slightly more liquid putty, I apply some Tamiya liquid cement to the putty and it turns much more viscous. But basically all solvent type cements will eat away at plastic if used improperly - just be careful. I still use the testors orange tube all the time - I love it for high strength joints - nothing beats melting the plastic to fuse two parts together!

I may try experimenting with other types of chemical glues like Tenax-7. But in the meantime I still stick with my trusted and true Testors orange tube cement and Tamiya liquid cement. Occassionally I would use crazy glue to attach photo-etched metal parts or resin material. And I will use 5 minute epoxy glue on resin or metal materials that need high-strength. I will only use white glue on canopy parts or any part that will never be stressed. I DO NOT RECOMMEND BUILDING ANY MODEL WITH WHITE GLUE - it is water soluable and non-perminant.

Its a bummer... but you now learned a valuable lesson about solvent type chemicals such as putties and glues and the fact that if you use too much, the solvent will still work long after you do. It doesn't mean you should stop using them - its just experience that you have gained now. Modelling like any other craft or skill, anyone can get better with practice and experience.

Don't get too discouraged.

[Gabe Q]

Ouch. I learned the hard way, too. I ruined an F-14 kit that way. On the plus side, you'll never make that same mistake again.

[honneamise]

Spatula I feel with you. Most putties suck. I never had your kind of experience with putty (but something similar, just read on ) but I discovered that over the months or years EVERY one-component putty will shrink! That means even if you apply only a small amount to conceal a litte gap where two parts meet, after some time the putty will sag and the seam will be visible again. The bigger the puttied area, the bigger the effect. I stopped using any of the Green-Revell-Tamiya etc.-stuff ( that doesn´t mean they are ALL that bad I just gave up trying after Revell and Green Putty)and went with two-component polyester automotive putty known as Bondo in the U.S. if I´m not mistaken. Once this has hardened (1 minute working time, 15 minutes to harden or more depending on the amount of hardener) you can sand it. It sticks well to plastic but doesn´t have a melting effect. NO shrinking even after 10 years!

And here comes my nightmare, I´m glad it all happened long ago.

I once added modeling clay as a nose weight to my 1/72 Tigercat model. That plane was one of my first fully painted, weathered etc. models and it was the pride of my shelf for about 2 years. Then one day when I touched the nose the plastic gave way - it had become completely soft! The softeners in the clay (by the way, it was FIMO - the stuff you put into an oven to harden it) had wandered all the way into the plastic and had melted it from the inside! The kit was completely ruined. Since that day I simply glue some metal pieces into the models to have the nose down.

[big F]

Bondo works well Basically any type of automotive 2 part fillers are good not much heat is generated by the curing proccess and they are highly sandable. I use it to convert 1\55 Jetfire nose cones to proper Macross types. also a large blob of the stuff can be sanded and cut and filled etc to make custom parts and then crazy glued on.

Dont use Blu tac in the nose cones of your models as it too can react in a similar way to Fimo on some plastics, rendering a nice model into bin food.

[Spatula]

Thank god now. Well I did use Das modeling air dry clay for the Elintseeker nose to see what I can salvage here.

How does air dry clay work? Is it okay with plastic?

[big F]

Dont use nail varnish remover to get rid of the paint you put on a model, only later to realise its the wrong colour.

Nail polish remover gets the paint off including Humbrol enamels and can leave you with a nice clean model. A few weeks later it will fall apart and become totally useless. Mind you the gap between aplication and disintigration gives you time to save up for a new one.