Final Fantasy XI

[Skull Leader]

Remained offline? That was the most offensive comment ever...ya dont have to be harsh man breakin my spirit here . This thread will die eventully but if you something bad to say about FF keep it to yourself please .

352470[/snapback]

Just callin' it as I see it. To me FF truly died when FFVII hit the markets. I don't feel there's been a true FF game since (6 was the last in the line of kings... the rest are just bastardized offspring). Tactics was good enough, but other than being eyecandy (X and X-2 especially) they've offered up NOTHING like their older counterparts. So YES, it would have been better if FFXI had never existed.

I'm apprehensive about FFXII, but I'm sure I'll be trying it.

[Ishimaru]

Remained offline? That was the most offensive comment ever...ya dont have to be harsh man breakin my spirit here . This thread will die eventully but if you something bad to say about FF keep it to yourself please .

352470[/snapback]

Just callin' it as I see it. To me FF truly died when FFVII hit the markets. I don't feel there's been a true FF game since (6 was the last in the line of kings... the rest are just bastardized offspring). Tactics was good enough, but other than being eyecandy (X and X-2 especially) they've offered up NOTHING like their older counterparts. So YES, it would have been better if FFXI had never existed.

I'm apprehensive about FFXII, but I'm sure I'll be trying it.

352718[/snapback]

To me you got no taste...FFVII is a good game and still is how could it have killed FF if it is what made FF good . I can see for many reasons why you dont like what you like.

[JB0]

FF11 is the antithesis of everything the FF name is associated with.

IMO, Square(now Squeenix) needs to just retire the name.

352478[/snapback]

Why? XII has an amazing team behind it, I fully expect it to be one of the best in the series.

352581[/snapback]

Admittedly, 12 does seem to kick one of my major gripes with the franchise to date(notably that it's maintained a play style that was chosen due to the limitations of the NES).

Also notable is the FF7 spinoff "Dirge of Cerberus."

I've always felt Square was at their best when they WEREN'T churning out dated RPGs. If they can sustain the "let's just slap the FF label on whatever we decide to make" attitude instead of the older "let's churn out something that looks like an old FF game" attitude, it'll go a long way towards redeeming them.

I still think focusing on the big labels to the exclusion of all else is a bad idea.

It encourages sloppy development when you know your product will sell on name alone.

[Ishimaru]

Yah SquareSoft was all good until it turned into Enix. Final Fantasy XI would have been a way better game with Soft. The Advent Children project was started by Soft and ended by Enix thats just tearful...

I realy dont buy any SquareEnix games accept for FFXI and downloading the unlegit version of AC off bit torrent. Yah thats pretty much it the rest is SquareSoft so yah...If it hadnt been for Sony none of this crap wouldv happened. Soft made thier games with dignity, Enix just disrespects their name.

[yellowlightman]

Yah SquareSoft was all good until it turned into Enix. Final Fantasy XI would have been a way better game with Soft. The Advent Children project was started by Soft and ended by Enix thats just tearful...

I realy dont buy any SquareEnix games accept for FFXI and downloading the unlegit version of AC off bit torrent. Yah thats pretty much it the rest is SquareSoft so yah...If it hadnt been for Sony none of this crap wouldv happened. Soft made thier games with dignity, Enix just disrespects their name.

352746[/snapback]

Enix hasnt had anything to do with it, the only one at fault is SquareSoft and ther questionable management. The same management that saw fit to make and release the Spirits Within and all the garbage they put out on the PS1.

[Skull Leader]

To me you got no taste...

The same could be said of you for offering up such a silly poll in the first place.

FFVII is a good game and still is how could it have killed FF if it is what made FF good

That's entirely a subjective thing. Just because that is what you believe does not make it so. You'll note that I've not offered up my opinion as divine wrote, just stated it as an opinion. It's just that I seriously doubt that most people who call FF7 their favorite have taken even a brief amount of time to appreciate what went into the earlier incarnations. (they exist, but they're rare) Have you seriously even played through any of 1-6? I mean PLAYED some of them, not dabbled through 30 minutes of it and put it away? FFIV and VI are easily the two magnum opus' of the Final Fantasy series (while 4 is my favorite, it simply does not get more dynamic than FFVI... the number of characters and story is mind-boggling). If you haven't played any of these based on the fact that they don't offer cutting edge graphics you're seriously kicking yourself in the nuts.

I can see for many reasons why you dont like what you like.

This doesn't make any sense at all.

Edited December 16, 2005 by Skull Leader

[JB0]

Yah SquareSoft was all good until it turned into Enix. Final Fantasy XI would have been a way better game with Soft. The Advent Children project was started by Soft and ended by Enix thats just tearful...

Thank you for your uneducated and generally retarded opinion.

I've had quite enough fanboy bullshit today, and you just broke the camel's back.

I realy dont buy any SquareEnix games accept for FFXI and downloading the unlegit version of AC off bit torrent. Yah thats pretty much it the rest is SquareSoft so yah...

Please... you wouldn't know what games were developed by who if they bit you on the ass. You just look for the largest logo you recognize.

I bet you think there's a diffrence between the original release of Xenogears and the Greatest Hits one, just because one carryies a Squeenix logo.

You're probably one fo the same 'tards that insists that Ikaruga was developed by Atari and Star Ocean was developed by Enix.

Assuming you've ever heard of either of them, which is highly doubtful.

If it hadnt been for Sony none of this crap wouldv happened.

Yah. If Sony hadn't translated FF7 and then pimped it as hard as possible, you wouldn't know who Square was, along with millions of other people.

Which would've saved them the inflated egos that led to the financial crisis that was the motivation for the Square/Enix merger.

Soft made thier games with dignity, Enix just disrespects their name.

Square made graphics-whore eyecandy, Enix made nothing(even the all-powerful Dragon Quest franchise was sublicensed out to third parties for development).

Squeenix makes graphics-whore eyecandy AND sublicenses things! YAY!

More relevantly, Square gained game publication facilities and Enix gained an American division that wasn't totally incompetent.

[Skull Leader]

Squeenix makes graphics-whore eyecandy AND sublicenses things! YAY!

352775[/snapback]

Best. Deduction. EVER. LOL

[Jolly Rogers]

Funny stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch.php?v=lr_HR-iIlYg

[Ishimaru]

To me you got no taste...

The same could be said of you for offering up such a silly poll in the first place.

FFVII is a good game and still is how could it have killed FF if it is what made FF good

That's entirely a subjective thing. Just because that is what you believe does not make it so. You'll note that I've not offered up my opinion as divine wrote, just stated it as an opinion. It's just that I seriously doubt that most people who call FF7 their favorite have taken even a brief amount of time to appreciate what went into the earlier incarnations. (they exist, but they're rare) Have you seriously even played through any of 1-6? I mean PLAYED some of them, not dabbled through 30 minutes of it and put it away? FFIV and VI are easily the two magnum opus' of the Final Fantasy series (while 4 is my favorite, it simply does not get more dynamic than FFVI... the number of characters and story is mind-boggling). If you haven't played any of these based on the fact that they don't offer cutting edge graphics you're seriously kicking yourself in the nuts.

I can see for many reasons why you dont like what you like.

This doesn't make any sense at all.

352761[/snapback]

First of all I did play all FF games I just never get a chance to finish them. The only ones I actually finished is Tactis, FFI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFX, and if ya played the FFXII demo keep your hopes up that the gameplay will be diffrent than the demo cause it was awful .

Second what ya mean I made no sense ? We just have diffrent opinions here thats all. Let's not fight here, making enemys is thing I least want to happen in this topic.

Yah. If Sony hadn't translated FF7 and then pimped it as hard as possible, you wouldn't know who Square was, along with millions of other people.

Which would've saved them the inflated egos that led to the financial crisis that was the motivation for the Square/Enix merger.

Did ya mean by Spirits Within they didnt pay off enough dept to pay off the expenses for the movie. They spent around 140 million and only made 78 million somewhere around their. SquareSoft was forced to work with Enix a seperate company to go off debt so they had to merge. If it hadnt been for that movie things would have been diffrent.

*Final Fantasy XI couldv been a completely diffrent online game.

*Final Fantasy X-2 might have had a better story or not even made.

*Advent Children could have been diffrent in many ways.

*Final Fantasy XII demo wouldnt suck and also the game wouldv been diffrent.

*And much more...

[JB0]

First of all I did play all FF games I just never get a chance to finish them. The only ones I actually finished is Tactis, FFI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFX, and if ya played the FFXII demo keep your hopes up that the gameplay will be diffrent than the demo cause it was awful .

NOTHING can be worse than the gameplay of FF4-9+X2.

Second what ya mean I made no sense ? We just have diffrent opinions here thats all. Let's not fight here, making enemys is thing I least want to happen in this topic.

Yah. If Sony hadn't translated FF7 and then pimped it as hard as possible, you wouldn't know who Square was, along with millions of other people.

Which would've saved them the inflated egos that led to the financial crisis that was the motivation for the Square/Enix merger.

Did ya mean by Spirits Within they didnt pay off enough dept to pay off the expenses for the movie. They spent around 140 million and only made 78 million somewhere around their.

That and FF8 fell massively short of forecasted profits. Those were the major things.

SquareSoft was forced to work with Enix a seperate company to go off debt so they had to merge.

A. Learn to punctuate.

B. Square CHOSE to go to Enix. The merger was, as I said, mutually beneficial.

And it wasn't exactly their first collaboration. Ever hear of Chrono Trigger? That was a Squeenix production before anyone had coined the phrase Squeenix.

If it hadnt been for that movie things would have been diffrent.

How is that Sony's fault, anyways? Square was the company that chose to start a movie studio, invest obscene amounts of cash in massive render farms, then release a movie that wasn't ready for release.

Sony... translated FF7.

*Final Fantasy XI couldv been a completely diffrent online game.

That was developed before the merger. In point of fact, FF11 came out in Japan A YEAR BEFORE the merger.

It's just one of the final symptoms of Square's inflated ego. They thought they could do anything they wanted as long as it carried hte FF label.

*Final Fantasy X-2 might have had a better story or not even made.

This one was also completed before the merger. In point of fact, the japanese version was released several months before the merger.

*Advent Children could have been diffrent in many ways.

Or not at all.

But it's highly unlikely given that Square had already determined after FF8 that it wasn't enough to carry the FF label to secure the loyalty of rabid fanboys. They needed to remind them of the massively over-rated FF7. And what better way to do it than to make a movie that claimed to close the plot canyons present in the original game.

And actually, Advent Children DOES only exist because of Spirits Within. Square applied the experience they got producing TSW to creating another movie. And this time there'd be no doubts about sales, because "ZOMG IT HAEV CLOUD N TIFA!111"

*Final Fantasy XII demo wouldnt suck and also the game wouldv been diffrent.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the first demos of FF12 with it's Vagrant Story-based gameplay were making the rounds at game shows before the merger. But I can't find concrete dates without actually expending some effort.

The dev team IS made of Square talent, however.

While the music composer(Hitoshi Sakimoto) has never actually been a Square employe, they HAVE hired him for previous projects, including Vagrant Story and FFTactics.

*And much more...

Yes, I'm sure.

You've already proven you're just shooting your mouth off without actually knowing anything.

Edited December 17, 2005 by JB0

[LinxCrossq]

*gets late in the discussion *

As a new adventurer on Vana'diel I must say that I'm not that impressed with the game. It's actually my first experience ever on MMORPG and it's a lot of fun. However the only reason I got the game it's because of the "XI." If the game would've been just FF Online I'd never got it.

So my vote is FFXI, yay!

(Did that make anysense?)

[Duke Togo]

I'm one of those who has been with the Final Fantasy series since the very beginning. I've played and completed 1-10 (emulated III), and Tactics. Personally, I LOVED VII. I also HATED VIII. II was one of the worst games I have ever played, and III is, in my mind, the great forgotten gem of the series.

The "old school gamers hate VII" myth is just that, a myth. Also, liking VII doesn't make you a moron or a "newbie". Ok, well, that's my rant for today.

[JB0]

I'm one of those who has been with the Final Fantasy series since the very beginning. I've played and completed 1-10 (emulated III), and Tactics.

Same here, off and on.

I've only beat 1, 6/3US, 7, and 9. (And Legend 2, if we want to count the rebadged GBO games that weren't really FFs to start with).

I've had signifigant troubles getting through 2j-5 for various reasons(such as computer failures eating saves).

8 just wasn't worth the effort. Ditto for Mystic Quest.

Tactics... I just get bogged down in SRPGs. I'll come back and hit it again in a few months.

X and X2 I've only recently got a PS2, and I've been kinda burned out on RPGs lately. Haven't even given Star Ocean 3 much attention.

Personally, I LOVED VII. I also HATED VIII. II was one of the worst games I have ever played, and III is, in my mind, the great forgotten gem of the series.

The "old school gamers hate VII" myth is just that, a myth. Also, liking VII doesn't make you a moron or a "newbie". Ok, well, that's my rant for today.

353250[/snapback]

I like 7. The problem is I JUST like it.

If I ever come across as flat-out hating it, it's because I'm tired of hearing about how it's God's gift to gaming, how only Square can make good games, and how they need to remake FF7(A game that's STILL IN PRINT, FOR PETE'S SAKE!) instead of making a new game.

But IMO, 9 is the best of the 3 "main" PS1 games. It's also one of my favorites in the series, despite the incredibly outdated gameplay.

I'm also the guy that likes 2j, for what it's worth.

[Skull Leader]

I'm one of those who has been with the Final Fantasy series since the very beginning. I've played and completed 1-10 (emulated III), and Tactics. Personally, I LOVED VII. I also HATED VIII. II was one of the worst games I have ever played, and III is, in my mind, the great forgotten gem of the series.

The "old school gamers hate VII" myth is just that, a myth. Also, liking VII doesn't make you a moron or a "newbie". Ok, well, that's my rant for today.

353250[/snapback]

I didn't speak in absolutes. I pointed out that there were exceptions, but they're exactly that, EXCEPTIONS. Maybe a handful of people who really liked FFVII were true fans of the series before that. The vast majority are bandwagoners. (I, for one, thought 7 had good music, and good summons, but that's about where I draw the line).

Dean, if you haven't played all the way through any of the old school final fantasy series (2-6), you've missed out on most of what made the FF series so kickass.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Skull Leader

[Skull Leader]

I'm also the guy that likes 2j, for what it's worth.

353317[/snapback]

It's not without it's faults, but FF2j is a great game!

[Duke Togo]

But IMO, 9 is the best of the 3 "main" PS1 games. It's also one of my favorites in the series, despite the incredibly outdated gameplay.

I'm also the guy that likes 2j, for what it's worth.

I loved IX up until the last disc. In my opinion, they completed dropped the ball and blew the game then and there.

Maybe a handful of people who really liked FFVII were true fans of the series before that.

Now that's just a really silly thing to say, isn't it? LOL, "true fans".

[Ishimaru]

*gets late in the discussion *

As a new adventurer on Vana'diel I must say that I'm not that impressed with the game. It's actually my first experience ever on MMORPG and it's a lot of fun. However the only reason I got the game it's because of the "XI." If the game would've been just FF Online I'd never got it.

So my vote is FFXI, yay!

(Did that make anysense?)

353152[/snapback]

It made perfect sense in my opinion .

And Skull Leader I hope to finish playing the whole FF series but that aint going to happen for awhile. Im currently hooked on SWBFII, FFXI, Matrix Path of Neo, and I hate to say this but..Im going to play the trial of WoW to see how the game goes .

Im just a little ticked Square Enix is just not how it used to be to me , The days when I was like around 8 years old playing FFVII and FFVII without knowing what to do those were the good days and I never fully understood any of Square's games till I fully actualy understood them today and yet I dont understand why some people have thier opinions on them I have no reason to go against them and no reason why I should even consider it; its thier opinion not mine.

[Duke Togo]

Im just a little ticked Square Enix is just not how it used to be to me , The days when I was like around 8 years old playing FFVII...

353359[/snapback]

Jesus God, I was 21 when FFVII came out!

[Skull Leader]

*gets late in the discussion *

As a new adventurer on Vana'diel I must say that I'm not that impressed with the game. It's actually my first experience ever on MMORPG and it's a lot of fun. However the only reason I got the game it's because of the "XI." If the game would've been just FF Online I'd never got it.

So my vote is FFXI, yay!

(Did that make anysense?)

353152[/snapback]

It made perfect sense in my opinion .

And Skull Leader I hope to finish playing the whole FF series but that aint going to happen for awhile. Im currently hooked on SWBFII, FFXI, Matrix Path of Neo, and I hate to say this but..Im going to play the trial of WoW to see how the game goes .

353359[/snapback]

Then you've basically turned against your own argument. In the meantime, you have no grounds to stand on when talking about FF as a whole. It makes more sense to me now why you say the things you do, you're barely old enough to drive a car on your own legally!

[armentage]

Uhm, I don't know where this crap about FFVII not being a good game came from. I played it when i was 21 or 22. Great game, lots of fun to play. Great graphics & sound, and the fact that it ran on my PC was a gigantic plus. Still have the disks sitting in my book shell.

FF8 = piece of garbage. I stopped halfway through and tossed the disks out the window.

FF4 (Aka FF2 on the SNES), I can't wait to get for my GB:Micro. Fond memories of playing that as a kid.

People who elevate computer games and say poo about the companies that make them: Losers.

[Zor Primus]

*gets late in the discussion *

As a new adventurer on Vana'diel I must say that I'm not that impressed with the game. It's actually my first experience ever on MMORPG and it's a lot of fun. However the only reason I got the game it's because of the "XI." If the game would've been just FF Online I'd never got it.

So my vote is FFXI, yay!

(Did that make anysense?)

353152[/snapback]

No it makes no sense to me at all. You spent money on a game because you saw a number tagged to the FF title? Were you expecting to play an actual story arc? Or hoping to race chocobos for Knights of the Round? Sorry if your actually gonna expect to have a good first time mmorpg xp your first time around, seems to be the consensus here that your about to enter a world with pretty graphics but very little content. Wish ya would have read some of the reviews here before dropping the $30.00 + if ya got the expansion. Best of luck to ya, seems like your gonna need it after you pass lvl 40.

[JB0]

Uhm, I don't know where this crap about FFVII not being a good game came from.  I played it when i was 21 or 22.  Great game, lots of fun to play.  Great graphics & sound, and the fact that it ran on my PC was a gigantic plus.  Still have the disks sitting in my book shell.

It's largely backlash from people who saw flaws in the game and were sick of hearing about how Square was some sort of divine being that could do no wrong as opposed to a video game company.

Especially since the people claiming Square was so great were incapable of identifying any Square games EXCEPT Final Fantasy(Don't believe me? Ask how they felt about Einhander or Bushido Blade and watch the blank stares.).

The game's runaway success DID have some negative effects on the industry, further fueling the backlash.

The new gamers that came in with it were largely(but not exclusively) of the polygons-or-nothing FMV-for-life graphics whore variety, and a lot of very good games have been minimalized due to this rather large section of the market.

Some have been denied entry to the US totally as a certain major hardware company has attempted to manage their image to keep this group following their system.

Speaking solely on the game's content instead of outside influences(and my own personal take on things, obviously), FF7 has some neat features. It needed some more tuning before it was released, though.

The equipment menus galled me with their simplicity, though I've come to realize that's because the primary equipment was actually materia, not the weapons and armor themselves.

The fact that materia status changes become permanent on level up, while not mentioned anywhere in the game or manual, makes an active and focused management of the system critical to success.

Speaking of which... the materia system could have done with a few tweaks(like character limitations on materia. Your meatshields shouldn't be able to use Bahamut Zero and Knights of the Round, as an example.).

It still kicked ass, though. That's the one thing that disappoints me about Square coming up with new non-combat systems each game, I'll never see a refined materia system without an FF7 remake.

The plot, arguably the most important element of a FF/DQ-style RPG, has more holes than a cheese grater. Not inconsistincies, just big gaping chunks of missing.

The main character STILL didn't have a past at the end, after ... 4 diffrent tries, I believe. PLEASE don't explain how he's actually Zack, a clone of Zack, or anything similar. There's no evidence in the game to support that proposed backstory over any of the others.

Vincent is getting one laid out in Dirge of Cerberus, but they'll probably leave Cloud alone.

Hence why I consider it merely a good game. It's above average(not that that really says much*), but it's not making any "top xxx" lists in my opinion.

*And no, I'm not nostalgic enough to really believe that the average game quality has fallen. The NES and 2600 libraries were full of crap too. People have just forgotten the bad games because they aren't worth remembering.

And given I've already seen fresher gamers complaining about how much greater the PS1 library is than the PS2 library, I see no reason to believe this mental filtering isn't going to keep happening.

[Duke Togo]

The game's runaway success DID have some negative effects on the industry, further fueling the backlash.

Calm down there, fanboy, nobody's house got burned down.

[armentage]

JBO, you need to chill.

IT'S A GAME.

IT WAS FUN TO PLAY.

IF YOU WANT MORE PLOT, PICK UP A NOVEL.

[Duke Togo]

O NOES! FF ruined my life!

[LinxCrossq]

*gets late in the discussion *

As a new adventurer on Vana'diel I must say that I'm not that impressed with the game. It's actually my first experience ever on MMORPG and it's a lot of fun. However the only reason I got the game it's because of the "XI." If the game would've been just FF Online I'd never got it.

So my vote is FFXI, yay!

(Did that make anysense?)

353152[/snapback]

No it makes no sense to me at all. You spent money on a game because you saw a number tagged to the FF title? Were you expecting to play an actual story arc? Or hoping to race chocobos for Knights of the Round? Sorry if your actually gonna expect to have a good first time mmorpg xp your first time around, seems to be the consensus here that your about to enter a world with pretty graphics but very little content. Wish ya would have read some of the reviews here before dropping the $30.00 + if ya got the expansion. Best of luck to ya, seems like your gonna need it after you pass lvl 40.

353582[/snapback]

What if it was $100 for the PS2 HD?

Because it was a 100 bucks and did read a lot about the game. Even the stupid "die and lose exp" didn't stop me. I got it 'cuz I'm a brainless Square whore as some may say.

[Zor Primus]

What if it was $100 for the PS2 HD? 

Because it was a 100 bucks and did read a lot about the game. Even the stupid "die and lose exp" didn't stop me. I got it 'cuz I'm a brainless Square whore as some may say.

353854[/snapback]

A whore and you still have an animated avatar

Some people... Enjoy your timesink, whatever floats your boat I guess.

[Duke Togo]

This thread really calls for that "YOU WIN THE PRIZE!" pic.

[Duke Togo]

[LinxCrossq]

Ok, I did have no clue on the animated avatars but it's not like this place has astonishing announcements on the news thread.

Thanks for the prize. =\

Edited December 20, 2005 by LinxCrossq

[JB0]

The game's runaway success DID have some negative effects on the industry, further fueling the backlash.

Calm down there, fanboy, nobody's house got burned down.

353810[/snapback]

JBO, you need to chill.

IT'S A GAME.

IT WAS FUN TO PLAY.

IF YOU WANT MORE PLOT,  PICK UP A NOVEL.

353834[/snapback]

Are people STUPID?

I was saying WHY there was a backlash, not my specific problems with the game.

As I said, I think it's a good game. Not a great one, but a good one.

And my plot complaints are quite well-grounded given FF7 is a plot-driven game.

I don't expect the most epic writing ever. I DO expect coherence.

I've got quite a few novels, BTW. I enjoy reading, which is part of why I can be bothered to play an RPG with such a dated gameplay paradigm.

I've also got Xenogears, Granda 2, Lunar: Eternal Blue, and a few other games that manage to carry a moderately deep story through to completion instead of leaving most of the plot threads unresolved.

Xenogears is particularly notable given A. it's from the same company as FF7, B. it has an absurdly involved story, and C. it was released in a half-completed state.

Which raises an interesting question. If Square can take a game that's an order of magnitude more comvoluted than FF7, scrap 50% of the content, and still manage to keep it coherent, than WHAT THE HELL happened with their flagship title?

[Skull Leader]

Xenogears is particularly notable given A. it's from the same company as FF7, B. it has an absurdly involved story, and C. it was released in a half-completed state.

Which raises an interesting question. If Square can take a game that's an order of magnitude more comvoluted than FF7, scrap 50% of the content, and still manage to keep it coherent, than WHAT THE HELL happened with their flagship title?

353937[/snapback]

Ditto. And it's not as if we're somehow violently opposed to the game, or let it ruin our lives as some seem to be implying, rather that the game isn't "all that" as so many of the "ZOMG WTF" generation seem to think it is.

[Duke Togo]

There will be a beat down if you start coming after Xenogears.

[Skull Leader]

I rather thought that JB0 was trying to point out that the initial concept for Xenogears was a much larger affair than what it wound up being, and it STILL offered more whoopass in one game than has yet to be seen anywhere else in the world.