The Xbox 360 Thread!

[bandit29]

Didn't Best Buy sponsor the Xbox 360 launch party in California?

So do any of the games feel next-gen?

Edited November 26, 2005 by dejr8bud

[TheLoneWolf]

Finally---is it really THAT hard to design adequate cooling for electronics?  Everything gets "warm" but it seems game systems are far more prone to actual OVERheating.  Can't they just add a bigger/faster fan, or more surface area to the sinks, or something?  Why does everything lately always seem to run one degree away from failure?

347216[/snapback]

Adding in a bigger fan or heatsinks would take care of overheating, but Microsoft is trying to keep the 360 small and elegant. One of the (many) factors that led to the original Xbox's failure in Japan was it's large size and unsightly design. Microsoft had made dominance in Japan one of it's top priorities, and they're not going to do that with another system that's humongous and has a lot of noisy fans.

Your theory of the overheating problems being due to the power supply make more sense than the entire system overheating. If the system itself were overheating, I'd imagine there would be a lot more complaints and would be surprised that quality control never encountered it during their tests. But, an extraneous variable such as a different power supply makes perfect sense.

What concerns me most about the X360 is the possibility viruses. The original Xbox was immune to bugs because it could only run one process at a time. While I've no idea how the software infrastructure of the X360 is designed, from what I've read it appears that it can run multiple processes at once. Maybe in a few years, we'll be able to buy anti-virus X360 software from M$ too.

[Hikuro]

Best buys did alot of celebrations for the launch ceremony, they were sponsors for G4TechTV's launch party on the 21st.

[myk]

Didn't Best Buy sponsor the Xbox 360 launch party in California?

So do any of the games feel next-gen?

347642[/snapback]

Not at all. If it's an issue of graphical quality I don't see much of a difference between 2 versions of 1 game I've personally sampled, Need for Speed Most Wanted. Obviously the 360 looks better but I wouldn't call it next-gen. Sound is what it is, as both boxes have digital out so there won't be much difference there. Performance wise I'd have to say it's a little shameful for the 360, in that playing NFS and Project Gotham 3 occasionally had graphical hiccups that I don't attribute to hardware problems, rather rushed new games on a new console. To confirm that, official game reviewers have witnessed the same glitches...

Edited November 26, 2005 by myk

[Gaijin]

It's a launch...most launch titles are hurried efforts or ports of last gen games.

[LORD KUNGFU]

well i work at target

347480[/snapback]

Your family must be proud.

[myk]

I'm actually trying to find work there myself. With exception during the holidays, the employees seem to be moderately enjoying themselves. Tell me 'Sabre, would you recommend your company?

[Sephiroth]

Being stationed in England, the AAFES Base Exchange (BX) won't get its shipment of Xbox 360s until possibly tomorrow (28 Nov). A small group of people have been waiting in line ever since the US launch waiting for the Xboxs 360s to show up here, despite being told that they weren't coming right away. The manager finally got tired of people blocking the aisle ways and bothering employees for status updates that he finally set up a plan last night to take pre-100% paid orders starting at 7AM this morning. The BX will then call each pre-paid order to pick up their system as soon as it arrives. There were only 40 consoles total available in the first shipment to this BX that services three bases so I planned to get there early.

I arrived at 5:15, was #31 in line, and guaranteed myself an Xbox 360 premium system after only having to wait for a little over 2 hours. One of the great benefits of shopping at the BX is that everything is tax-free so I saved a lot money right from the start. I also had a "Sunday-after-Thanksgiving Day Sale" store coupon that took an additional 20% off any purchase up to $500. The $399.00 Xbox 360 premium system only cost me a total of $319.20 so I'm pretty happy to say the least.

Edited November 27, 2005 by Sephiroth

[sabretooth]

target is surprisingly stress free, believe it or not

it's really easy, mindless and drama free, i leave work not feeling depressed. scary.

i do a lot of freelance work and i keep the target job for consistant medical coverage and a steady reliable source of income. freelance in and of itself is a fickle thing and has a terrible history with cash flow so the target job pays my rent and the freelance covers everything else (bills, toys, supplies, travel) sculpting materials are not cheap, ever tried to ship and oversized packadge overnight to the other coast...it's not cheap.

plus i did not have to wait in line for an system, i strolled in at 3 pm and picked up 2 of the bundles and waited less than 3 minutes in line at the check out AND got my employee discount.

hah!

(mr lord kungfu can suck me sideways)

with the next shipment our store is NOT GIVING ANYBODY WHO WAITS OUTSIDE FIRST DIBS. this is due to the first guy who started the line, he was an ass and demanded that he be able to purchase as many of them as he wanted citing that it was his right as a consumer and then spent the next 14 hrs picking a verbal brawl with anybody wearing a red shirt. when the store opened he started up again and said he should be allowed to multiple systems...

guy was an a-hole.

[sabretooth]

target is surprisingly stress free, believe it or not

it's really easy, mindless and drama free, i leave work not feeling depressed. scary.

i do a lot of freelance work and i keep the target job for consistant medical coverage and a steady reliable source of income. freelance in and of itself is a fickle thing and has a terrible history with cash flow so the target job pays my rent and the freelance covers everything else (bills, toys, supplies, travel) sculpting materials are not cheap, ever tried to ship and oversized packadge overnight to the other coast...it's not cheap.

plus i did not have to wait in line for an system, i strolled in at 3 pm and picked up 2 of the bundles and waited less than 3 minutes in line at the check out AND got my employee discount.

hah!

(mr lord kungfu can suck me sideways)

with the next shipment our store is NOT GIVING ANYBODY WHO WAITS OUTSIDE FIRST DIBS. this is due to the first guy who started the line, he was an ass and demanded that he be able to purchase as many of them as he wanted citing that it was his right as a consumer and then spent the next 14 hrs picking a verbal brawl with anybody wearing a red shirt. when the store opened he started up again and said he should be allowed to multiple systems...

guy was an a-hole.

[myk]

You mean...you didn't know? That guy was Tsinc! High-priced-Valkyrie-peddler-extraordinaire! What surprises me is that you guys didn't have security around to take care of guys like that; or they weren't doing their jobs. The Target that I spent the night with had about 2 police officers in the store, not to mention their usual security squad stationed everywhere including the bra and panty section. At the very least, your Team Leaders and Managers should have been doing something about this character; where were they?

-Also, how would you say the job is for the Team Leads? I'm thinking about applying for that, as Mike Z. has indirectly talked me out of a Manager job with Gamestop anytime in this century.

-In addition, what games did you get? Did your store actually have any copies of DOA at the launch?

Edited November 27, 2005 by myk

[LtStick]

I think that guy would have gotten a one way ticket out the door. Also I thought most stores had a policy that stated they had the right to limit quantities? People like that onlyhave one thing on there minds and that getting there own way no matter how big of a idiot they look like.

[Ladic]

does the $399 version come with 2 controllers? a wired and wireless? or just a wireless?

[azrael]

Looks like David was right. It is the power supply....at least for some people.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_msgs.p...23998153&page=0

[Apollo Leader]

does the $399 version come with 2 controllers? a wired and wireless? or just a wireless?

347829[/snapback]

One wireless controller.

[Apollo Leader]

Looks like David was right. It is the power supply....at least for some people.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_msgs.p...23998153&page=0

347833[/snapback]

I finally fired up my ssytem last night... mainly played Pefect Dark amd was playing with my system's settings. I had my system going for about 45 minutes or so... neither the system or power converter didn't seem to heat up too much.

Just a little bit ago this afternoon, I had stopped at the Gamestop at the Westroads mall here in Omaha. The guy who is the current manager I've known for about 7 or 8 years and one of the other guys there told me that basically 1 or 2 systems have been returned at all the Omaha area Gamestops (about 5 or 6 stores) combined during the last 5 days or so. In the case of the one deffinite return, it was because the case of the system was cracked; whether it was at the manufacturer or during shipping, I don't know.

Those who have had systems with problems I can definitely understand their angst and if my system runs into problems I will be upset too, but I think this is a case where a relatively small number of people and their problem(s) are being amplified by the Internet.

[myk]

Well, if heat is truly the issue at hand here I can't believe that R & D wasn't able to pick up on this. If everyone and their mother keeps touting this thing as a PC dressed up like a console then they should at least give it the cooling capacity of any modern, garden variety PC that would include at least 2 fans. The fan designed into the unit now wouldn't be enough to cool a stick of RAM let alone an entire system of hardware. Also, if the power supply unit is the one suffering from heat well, they should've put a fan in that thing too, or at least designed the thing larger (it's already the size of a forearm) to release more heat...

-I couldn't figure out why Need for Speed was proving to be so difficult until I realized that the AI was using nitrous, and I've been running "all motor." lol

[Apollo Leader]

Well, if heat is truly the issue at hand here I can't believe that R & D wasn't able to pick up on this.  If everyone and their mother keeps touting this thing as a PC dressed up like a console then they should at least give it the cooling capacity of any modern, garden variety PC that would include at least 2 fans.  The fan designed into the unit now wouldn't be enough to cool a stick of RAM let alone an entire system of hardware.  Also, if the power supply unit is the one suffering from heat well, they should've put a fan in that thing too, or at least designed the thing larger (it's already the size of a forearm) to release more heat...

-I couldn't figure out why Need for Speed was proving to be so difficult until I realized that the AI was using nitrous, and I've been running "all motor."  lol

347856[/snapback]

If you look at the back end of the 360, it does have two cooling fans.

[myk]

Really? Lol, well I've had the thing since launch but I just now figured out how to turn the damn thing off-that switch is wierd! In any case, it would seem then that the 2 fans aren't enough-maybe they should have been made bigger, or included yet another fan. I don't know. To quote a legendary soldier from the future: "I didn't build the damn thing!"

[Apollo Leader]

Really?  Lol, well I've had the thing since launch but I just now figured out how to turn the damn thing off-that switch is wierd!  In any case, it would seem then that the 2 fans aren't enough-maybe they should have been made bigger, or included yet another fan.  I don't know.  To quote a legendary soldier from the future: "I didn't build the damn thing!"

347858[/snapback]

Are you talking about the power button on the front of the 360 (has the light "ring" around it) or something else?

[Hikuro]

I like that ring of light on the system, I was a lil freaked thinking the light source was bad cause only a fourth of it lit up, than it dawned on me when I used my other wireless with a friend that it lights up to the number of controlers being used.......duh on me.

I played PD0.....uh its okay and all but it feels so comic bookish like for characters....and I got stuck at one part.....I don't think its guidance on progressing thru levels is all that great....it keeps leading me to a big empty spot in some lab and there's nothing around the area to be grabbing or checking out. Suppose to look for a Gold Security card....can't find it.

[jwinges]

hmmm,...maybe they ought to just send all those over heating 360's to Minnesota. It could really help me out with my rising heating bills.

[myk]

Really?  Lol, well I've had the thing since launch but I just now figured out how to turn the damn thing off-that switch is wierd!  In any case, it would seem then that the 2 fans aren't enough-maybe they should have been made bigger, or included yet another fan.  I don't know.  To quote a legendary soldier from the future: "I didn't build the damn thing!"

347858[/snapback]

Are you talking about the power button on the front of the 360 (has the light "ring" around it) or something else?

347861[/snapback]

Yeah. I'm old fashioned in that I expect a switch to have an audible click, or some other audible clue that you've done something; think NES, Super NES, GC, PS2, etc. Those are genuine switches, you hear them click and you also see them go up and down, and whatnot. The idea behind the 360 is that you touch the "circle of light" (thats starting to sound very.....corny), but with a minimum of pressure and the unit powers up or down. Well, I'd press the "circle of light" and nothing would happen. I'd press it a little harder and the unit would either power up or down but it was just wierd; it was like placing pressure on some random part of the machine rather than the power switch. I don't know, I'm just being picky, I'm still loving it...

[azrael]

Those who have had systems with problems I can definitely understand their angst and if my system runs into problems I will be upset too, but I think this is a case where a relatively small number of people and their problem(s) are being amplified by the Internet.

347855[/snapback]

Most people I've read have either placed the console on it's side or moved the PS to a better spot and they've been running fine since. Inadequate/improper ventilation seems to be the problem, in which case, this isn't really a Microsoft issue.

[Hikuro]

Mines sideways as well, it seems like a popular and space saving style...I'm able to use the entire section for my Xbox shelving for the accessories like remotes, headphones and controlers all in that area.

I tried a different way to get on Xboxlive, cause I'm one of those few who own the xbox and yet can't get it online when they have DSL.

I tried a different route my ISP gives me......I either connect thru a window browser or thru a dial up fashion but having "DSL" speeds.

Well the browser function worked till it got to the MTU section saying I don't meet the minimum of 1,354 MTU or what ever....so.....says either change my settings on my router or get an Xboxlive compatible router.

First off, have NO CLUE what MTU's are and it doesn't really explain, and I don't even know how to change my routers MTU speed, I've had this service for almost 2 years...so I don't have the owners manual : / bah!

I guess I got pretty sucky DSL service if I can't even use Xboxlive to qualify for "minimum".....fin Westell/CenturyTel.......when the service contract is up I'm getting rid of you!........like next year or something.

w00t 2000 posts!

Edited November 28, 2005 by Hikuro

[myk]

Well, if the system is succeptible to malfuntioning due to heat, surely Microsoft would have known about this in their R&D. The least they could have done was warned the public that this thing requires a considerable amount of ventilation or else. I wonder if Microsoft will deny any return/warrantly claims due to inadequate cooling on the part of the consumer...

-Just read a section of my owner's manual that states the following: "Two left lights on console (ring of light) flash red-the console is too hot and will not play games until the unit cools down...."

I guess that heat IS an issue that has been known about, well before the launch. Well, at the very least we don't have to turn it upside down like some of those first generation PS1's!

Edited November 28, 2005 by myk

[David Hingtgen]

If it's so picky that vertical vs horizontal makes a difference, then it's got to be running right at the limit all the time. It's not like there's another fan that's uncovered when you stand it upright. Also, "just sitting there" should be more than enough for an AC adaptor---having to be "suspended in the air for full ventilation" is frankly ridiculous.

I have all my systems (and AC adapters) on the floor, never had anything overheat, from SNES to slim PS2. If every other system is ok, but the 360 won't take those conditions--then it's an issue with the 360, not "how consumers set it up".

Nothing should run so hot that you need to "accomodate" it. No electronic equipment does well when it's surrounded, but it seems like the 360 wants nothing less than its own personal fridge.

[mikeszekely]

So which games did you get? Also, was DOA available at launch and I just missed out, or is December 7th the actual release date?

I got NFS, Tiger, and Perfect Dark. Employee weekend is coming up on the 9th, and we get 25% off then. I plan on getting DoA, Call of Duty, Ridge Racer, and maybe Quake at that time.

DoA missed launch for whatever reason. But we do expect it in on the 7th.

I guess I should really think twice about applying there. On the surface, it seems like a dream job you know...

It was a fun job, back when we were Software Etc. Recent management changes have brought all the stores under the Gamestop umbrella, and it's all been downhill since. Now, we have two main problems. The first is that our company got damn greedy. It's not enough to sell videogames anymore. We gotta push the used videogames, because they have a higher mark up. And to have a good used inventory, we need trade-ins, so we have to ask EVERY person who walks through our doors for trade-ins. While selling used games and getting trade-ins, we gotta push that stupid magazine/discount card deal, because that secures future business. And speaking of future business, we gotta push reservations. Supposing customers like being pushed and we're successful in posting great used sale, trade-in, reservation, and subscription numbers, what do we get? To keep our jobs! With Gamestop's revolving door policy, there's no need to offer bonuses or incentives. Employees either perform, or they get fired and maybe the next guy will perform better.

The second issue I have with the company is Loss Prevention. A company has the right to protect itself from internal theft, sure, but Gamestop takes it too far, treating its employees like felons (although maybe Gamestop hires a lot of felons. You can't be too picky when you change employees like underwear). The security cameras don't monitor the sales floor, they monitor the cashier counters. Regular employees don't have access to any of the drawers or cabinents with games in them, only management does. In many stores, employees can't even get into the back room to put their lunch in the fridge or hang up their coat without a manager to open the door for them. Bag and pocket checks must be done (and logged) every time an employee leaves the store (including mall stores). What's more, while customers can trade in their games at any store, for cash or credit, employees can only trade their games at the store where they work for credit. Similarly, employees are not allowed to cancel reservations.

But I digress.

well we should be getting some in the next 2 weeks so this wole thing is damn right funny

Of course you should. Everyone is getting more. But as I've already explained, we still have preorders to fill. (In my store, after we factor out the cancelations, we still have over 90). Since our first shipment was 28 units, and that was supposed to be our largest shipment, we figure an average of 20 units per shipment and one shipment per week based on Microsoft's statements. If that's the case, it'll take five weeks to fill all the preorders, putting us damn close to January.

As a matter of fact, though, a Gamestop e-mail said that we weren't likely to get any more until the week before Christmas, and that it would be something like 6-8 units. If that's the case, it'll take a lot longer to fill the preorders, possibly as late as February.

So do any of the games feel next-gen?

Not at all.

I disagree, but I assume you're hooked up to a standard TV, myk? I've got mine hooked up to a 52" Toshiba widescreen DLP TV and set mine display settings on the 360 to 1080i. Right from the start, you can see a huge difference in just the dashboard going from 480p (the default setting) to 1080i. Compared to standard-definition games that look jaggy and ugly blown up on my TV (especially PS2), the visuals that the 360 is cranking out are simply breathtaking. Likewise, although a lot of Xbox 1 games supported Dolby Digital with the fiber optic output, the surround sound effects are done much better on the 360.

But a lot of what says next-gen to me isn't graphics, framerates, or number of enemies on screen. It's the way they've integrated Live. If you don't have broadband or otherwise haven't hooked your Xbox 360 up to the net, you're really missing out.

"Two left lights on console (ring of light) flash red-the console is too hot and will not play games until the unit cools down...."

I guess that heat IS an issue that has been known about, well before the launch.

And at least it's smart enough to shut down and cool off instead of just burning up. But, I'd like to state again, for the record, that I've had my console flat on its shelf (which seems to be well-ventilated), and that if I've been home and awake, my 360 has been on (I've already burned though a pair of batteries in the controller), and I have NEVER had a problem with mine.

[myk]

Nothing should run so hot that you need to "accomodate" it.   No electronic equipment does well when it's surrounded, but it seems like the 360 wants nothing less than its own personal fridge.

347953[/snapback]

Seriously. Hanging adapters up by string? Finding boxes with no lids to put the system, adapter or whatever on? It's almost as crazy as having to return a game to a company because there was a nation-wide recall for one....Nuts...

Mike, I spoke a little too soon when I said that the graphics weren't "next gen." At the time, I had not picked up the component cables to hook up to my 'HD TV, and I was just using composite (I'm one of the retarded Core buyers). I figured that there couldn't be THAT much of a difference with component cabling. Although I'm using an old-school 52" projection set, after getting the component cable and messing with settings there is an obvious improvement; Need for Speed and PGR3 look very good. If I really want to take advantage of the visual capabilities I should probably get another type of game, one where I can actually enjoy the environments instead of having to concentrate on my driving...

The situation at Gamestop is exactly the same as the job that I just lost, and I'm sorry to hear that type of pressure is on you. At least you guys get "employee weekend," that sounds like a blast. I guess that I'll be interviewing with Sabretooth at Target sometime soon...

Edited November 28, 2005 by myk

[azrael]

And at least it's smart enough to shut down and cool off instead of just burning up. But, I'd like to state again, for the record, that I've had my console flat on its shelf (which seems to be well-ventilated), and that if I've been home and awake, my 360 has been on (I've already burned though a pair of batteries in the controller), and I have NEVER had a problem with mine.

The console might be running fine, but how about the power brick? How's that handling?

This heat issue seems to be the Xbox 360's current bane....

Cuz now we got kids reporting graphical artifacts.

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EE...kFEiziJbWPk.php

Maybe someone should slap a water cooler on it....

I tried a different way to get on Xboxlive, cause I'm one of those few who own the xbox and yet can't get it online when they have DSL.

I tried a different route my ISP gives me......I either connect thru a window browser or thru a dial up fashion but having "DSL" speeds.

Well the browser function worked till it got to the MTU section saying I don't meet the minimum of 1,354 MTU or what ever....so.....says either change my settings on my router or get an Xboxlive compatible router.

First off, have NO CLUE what MTU's are and it doesn't really explain, and I don't even know how to change my routers MTU speed, I've had this service for almost 2 years...so I don't have the owners manual : / bah!

I guess I got pretty sucky DSL service if I can't even use Xboxlive to qualify for "minimum".....fin Westell/CenturyTel.......when the service contract is up I'm getting rid of you!........like next year or something.

MTU=Maximum Transmission Unit.

For DSL, the MTU is normally somewhere between 1400-1492. You'll need to reset your MTU. If you connect from a router, you'll need to change the setting on the router to that range.

[Hikuro]

hmmmmm thanks for the tip, but I have no clue where my settings are on this thing.....

[Oihan]

hmmmmm thanks for the tip, but I have no clue where my settings are on this thing.....

348054[/snapback]

If you're using Windows XP, go to Start: Run and then type cmd . Type ipconfig and hit enter. Whatever IP is given for the Default Gateway, that's the IP of your router. For instance, mine is 192.168.1.1 . My modem IP is therefore 192.168.0.1 . Anyway, just type the IP in the address bar of your web browser and you should gain access. You may have to enter a password. If you do and you haven't already set one up, it's probably the default login and password. So it may very well be User: Admin Password: (leave blank) or User: Admin Password: Admin . Also, some routers are configured to have different IPs right off the bat, like my sister's is 192.168.2.1 . Anyway, good luck.

[myk]

That power brick runs hot hot hot! I wonder if this thing will have the tendency to start fires like previous power cords/supplies? The graphical artifacts indicate overheated RAM or video hardware, right? Anyway, at the moment I'm trying to figure out why my system is telling me that my HD cable's high definition output is turned off and set to normal tv? How can something be hooked up with component cabling and not be set to HD?

[Oihan]

That power brick runs hot hot hot!  I wonder if this thing will have the tendency to start fires like previous power cords/supplies?  The graphical artifacts indicate overheated RAM or video hardware, right?  Anyway, at the moment I'm trying to figure out why my system is telling me that my HD cable's high definition output is turned off and set to normal tv?  How can something be hooked up with component cabling and not be set to HD?

348060[/snapback]

I don't have a 360 yet, but I've read there's a switch that needs to be adjusted for SDTV or HDTV. If you've already done that...then it must be a problem with the console itself.

Edited November 28, 2005 by Oihan

[myk]

I just picked this up off of team xbox's FAQ page:

"5. What does the “compatible with top-selling Xbox games†means?

It means that the most popular Xbox titles, based on sales figures, will be playable on the Xbox 360. However, Microsoft has not released official information as to which titles will be backward compatible."

I thought that backwards compatibility was based on a hardware issue concerning the new types CPU and GPU? Maybe this means that depending on how well a game was profitable for the original Xbox, Microsoft will decide whether to spend the time and resources necessary to make a game compatible with the 360? Does this mean that they get to decide what old Xbox games we will get to play on the 360?

-Just for laughs I tried calling 360 tech support for my HD cable question; it's always laughable when you know as much as the other person on the telephone, which in this case wasn't very much...

Edited November 28, 2005 by myk