My head hurts (dvd confusion)

[antagon]

Hey everyone

I've been going back and forth from site to site trying to figure out a solution to my dillema.

Little by little i've been completing my DVD collection (the anime part), just finished the cowboy bebop and outlaw star sections. Although it looks like theres a better bebop set out now

Anyways, I'm confused as to which series to pick up. I view the whole macross/robotech thing as 2 different shows, as i'm sure most of you do. For now, I'm looking to complete the Robotech section.

I've been out of the loop for a bit, and my brain only has a limited capacity. AFAIK, it goes like this.

Robotech: Macross Saga = Macross

Robotech: Masters = Southern Cross

Robotech: New Generation = Mospeada

I'm not sure which DVD's to pick up. I've been looking at the Robotech Remastered: Extended Edition DVDs. Would these be the best ones to pick up?

Thanks for reading. If I've broken any rules by posting this I apologize

EDIT: Also, since it seems ADV is having a HUGE sale on their DVDs, I'd like to enquire about the Southern Cross and Mospeada series. Would the complete collections from ADV be my best bet?

Edited October 28, 2005 by antagon

[Keith]

If for some strange reason you want to pick up the robotech versions instead, then check out some local retailer sites, and look up robotech. There's an upcoming big box set containing all of the robotech remastered disc's, plus all of the bonus disc's from the old un-remastered set. It's going to be a big thinpak box set.

If you do happen to see the light of reason, then I'd suggest picking up the original series Mospeada & Southern Cross box sets, followed by either picking up the old AnimEigo release of Macross, or waiting for the new ADV release of Macross which will start in a couple months.

Oh, and if you're happy with your current Bebop DVD's, then stick with them. As near as I can tell, there's no real advantage to the new set. Video quality is the same, though the new set does have a 5.1 mix. I personally like the old release cover art better (for some reason "remixed" just doesn't seem right on a bebop box).

Edited October 28, 2005 by Keith

[antagon]

Thanks for the reply Keith.

Like I said, I'll be getting both the Robotech and Macross sets (I'm a completist). But for now I'll be starting with Robotech, since that's one of the things my childhood was based on.

http://www.robotech.com/store/viewproductpreord.php?id=239

Is that the set you're talking about? A giant box-set like that makes my life a whole lot easier.

What makes the original releases of Mospeada and Southern Cross sets better than the ADV releases?

As for bebop, I'm an audiophile, and 5.1 is the way to go for me

Thanks again for the help, I appreciate it. I frequent several message boards for all my hobbies (cars, computers, gaming, etc), and all the info can be a bit overwhelming at times.

[Keith]

Yup that's the set, and the original sets are the ADV releases.

[danth]

You can get a used Southern Cross box set off eBay for a couple dollars. Seriously.

[antagon]

Well I'll be damned, I take it the series wasn't....the greatest...to be made?

[JB0]

Well I'll be damned, I take it the series wasn't....the greatest...to be made?

340613[/snapback]

Pretty much.

It wasn't very popular in it's original run, and there's not a lot of people that like it now either.

[Achilles2ca]

Hey,

Start with the Macross DVDs from Animeigo, it'll save you money because after you've seen the original Macross you will never go back to Robotech. It's not that Macross is superior to RT, it's that it is so superior, so much incredibly better in terms of plot, music, picture quality and writing, so much superior in every sense, that you'll never look back at Robotech except as that poor quality show that got you into Macross.

I just finished watching the original series and still can't believe the difference between the shows. Buy the Macross DVDs first and save your money cus you won't be watching the embarrassingly adolescent / child RT ones again. And this coming from a big RT fan.

Just my Humble Opinion.

Edited October 29, 2005 by Achilles2ca

[antagon]

Do they even stock Macross? I found their page, it just has info on Macross. I clicked the complete catalog w/pricing, and it's not in there :-\

While I'm here, whats the best copy of DYRL to pick up?

[JB0]

Do they even stock Macross? I found their page, it just has info on Macross. I clicked the complete catalog w/pricing, and it's not in there :-\

'S out of print.

Animeigo's license expired and HG wouldn't renew it because they're on VERY good terms with ADV.

[antagon]

Well where the hell am I supposed to get em? lol. I know ebay probably has them, but I'd rather support an online shop if I can.

[valk1j]

The new Robotech DVD's are garbage. They changed a lot of the sound effects from the original series. The ADV sets for Mospeada and SDC Southern Cross are not bad, but I can't recommend the RT remastered stuff they are selling. As for Macross if you can wait, I would look into the new set coming out in January from ADV.

[antagon]

Then what would be my best bet as far as Robotech goes? Like I said, it's more for nostalgia than anything, I didn't grow up reading words with japanese audio.

[valk1j]

The 3 sets here. The ones at the top of the page. They are exactly like the TV episodes from 1985. They haven't been remastered, but have all the original sounds.

[JB0]

Then what would be my best bet as far as Robotech goes? Like I said, it's more for nostalgia than anything, I didn't grow up reading words with japanese audio.

340761[/snapback]

http://www.robotech.com/store/viewcategory.php?id=1

The boxes at the bottom of this page and...

http://www.robotech.com/store/viewcategory...=2&totalpages=3

top of this one are supposed to be the best, as far as RawBootEck goes.

And if you want Macross NOW, as opposed to when ADV releases their 7-disk dubbed set using AnimEigo's masterful restoration efforts, and likely without giving them a lick of credit...

http://www.robotech.com/store/viewproduct.php?id=93

That's the Animeigo disks, but in a new box with more eye-catching artwork.

Many would say it's a better box, but as I personally like the minimalistic look I'd call it seperate but equal.

[valk1j]

The ones JBO is showing have the extra discs, so you will pay a little more for these. The discs are the same as the ones I pointed out, just they have the bonus disc per pack.

Edited October 30, 2005 by valk1j

[Wesker99]

Like I said, I'll be getting both the Robotech and Macross sets (I'm a completist).

Same here I've been putting off buying robotech for so long though cause it sickens me to put any more money in harmony gold's pocket.. Hurray for my hypocrisy! I hate harmony gold for keeping good macross out of the US, but I'm going to buy their DVDs eventually!

[Noriko Takaya]

While I'm here, whats the best copy of DYRL to pick up?

340718[/snapback]

I hate to even recommend bootlegs, but if you're looking for a cheaper alternative to the Japanese release, then the Macross: Do You Remember Love? Perfect Edition DVD is right for you. Valkyrie-Exchange had this item for sale on his website, but he lists it as out of print, so I guess eBay would be the place to find it. The cover looks like this if you are looking for it:

And if you have the burning software as well as hardware, you can make yourself a practically perfect English subtitled copy. The thread on how to do this is here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=13441. There is a thread also on how to do tis with the official release also.

Hope this helps.

[Keith]

Then what would be my best bet as far as Robotech goes? Like I said, it's more for nostalgia than anything, I didn't grow up reading words with japanese audio.

340761[/snapback]

Nostalgia can't save you from the terrible voice acting, haphazard plot holes, continuity mish-mashes, and terrible music. You're much better off replacing that nostalgia with Japanese audio & subtitles

[antagon]

Thanks again for all the help, I really appreciate it. It's usual to harp on people for not searching in most places, but it's been quite the opposite here.

Keith, all that is opinion, I liked the voice acting, then again, I'm not hard to please Look at the original transformers series, I can't begin to point out the 10000's of things wrong in that show. Was it still great, hell yes!

valk1j, I think I'll be going with the set's JBO pointed out, they look better IMO. Plus i'm a sucker for bonus material.

Noriko Takaya, when it comes to getting the very best, I try to keep money out of it. Where can I pick up the japanese release? Although the alternative does look tempting with the subtitle changes.

Looks like they made GBP (sp) armor for the 1/48 Valks....guess I'll be frequenting this board more often.

[bobman]

I'm new here. Sorry for disagreeing, but I have to be honest. I think you're making the wrong choice, Antagon.

The only good thing about those original sets is the fact they contain exactly what was aired on TV in 1985-86. The picture quality is pretty bad--basically just the analog broadcast tapes transferred to DVD. And you said you're a bit of an audiophile. Well you'll be disappointed because the sound is atrocious--Dolby Digital 1.0. MONO. No left, no right, no highs, no lows. Just plain old crappy mono.

Now the sets I highly recommend are the Robotech Remastered Extended Editions. You can buy them in 2 disc boxes, or you can wait a few weeks and buy it all in one big box with the previous versions bonus discs.

Why do I recommend the remastered discs? For many reasons. The video quality is vastly superior. The macross episodes look only slightly worse than the recent Animego Macross restoration. Most people believe it is in fact the same transfer, but that the Robotech discs look a little worse because of slightly worse compression job.

And then there is the audio. This causes some disagreement. The bad--the new audio mix replaces most of the original Macross/anime mecha sound effects. This is indeed sacrilegious. The good? It is in full 5.1. Once you get over the fact that there are some new sound FX, it is a much richer, more dynamic, more immersive experience. If you're an audiophile, the 5.1 is the only way to go.

Also, you said were planning on buying the original SDF Macross eventually anyways, right? You'll be able to hear all those original sound FX then.

You can buy the remastered discs in 2 disc sets right now. They are on sale at a discounted price until tomorrow straight from ADV's website: http://www.advfilms.com/sales.asp

The only draw back of these sets is that you won't get the great bonus discs that came with the Legacy Sets. But if you wait a few weeks, as I said earlier, you can buy a huge boxset with all the restored episodes and all the bonus discs. That's probably the way to go for you.

I don't mean to be a new guy, ruffling feathers. Just giving you my honest opinion.

Edited October 30, 2005 by bobman

[Pat Payne]

And you said you're a bit of an audiophile.  Well you'll be disappointed because the sound is atrocious--Dolby Digital 1.0.  MONO.  No left, no right, no highs, no lows.  Just plain old crappy mono.

Hate to disillusion you though, but "plain old crappy mono" was pretty much what most anime were broadcast in at that point. Stereo was reserved, even here in the US, for the big shows. If you're old enough to remember back that far, in the '80s on the big sitcoms and dramas, you might recall the nets had that little graphic annoucing the show was in stereo because it was a selling point. Lupin III (1977) had a total of nine or so episodes out of roughly 150 (IIRC) in stereo. the rest were in mono. IIRC, even Macross was a mono show. And NO show of '80s vintage would have been broadcast in 5.1 Surround, that was a late '90s-21st Century innovation.

And then there is the audio.  This causes some disagreement.  The bad--the new audio mix replaces most of the original Macross/anime mecha sound effects.  This is indeed sacrilegious.

They also replace all of the music with that gawdawful Ulpio Minucci score, which is a crime against humanity. Now, granted, the Southern Cross score was the weakest of the three shows' scores, but it was still better than the Robotech music.

I don't mean to be a new guy, ruffling feathers.  Just giving you my honest opinion.

340863[/snapback]

Don't worry about it. Spend more time here, and you'll find we're all passed masters at ruffling each other's feathers. BTW, welcome to MW.

Edited October 30, 2005 by Pat Payne

[JB0]

I'm new here.  Sorry for disagreeing, but I have to be honest.  I think you're making the wrong choice, Antagon.

The only good thing about those original sets is the fact they contain exactly what was aired on TV in 1985-86.  The picture quality is pretty bad--basically just the analog broadcast tapes transferred to DVD.  And you said you're a bit of an audiophile.  Well you'll be disappointed because the sound is atrocious--Dolby Digital 1.0.  MONO.  No left, no right, no highs, no lows.  Just plain old crappy mono.

Aside from the fact that the original source was IN mono...

I suspect an audiophile would be more annoyed by Dolby Digital's generally poor audio quality than that the soundtrack was presented in its native form. In fact, I know they would be, because I've had one rant at me endlessly about it.

And honestly, I find surround remixes fairly absurd myself. Ignoring quality concerns, the soundtrack was never intended to have directionality, adding it is just stupid in most cases.

Spend the space those extra 5 channels are using on something worthwhile, and use a raw PCM soundtrack instead of screwing around with lossy compression.

[bobman]

Hate to disillusion you though, but "plain old crappy mono" was pretty much what most anime were broadcast in at that point.

Yeah, stereo wasn't even added to the NTSC signal in the US until (I think) 1984. And even then, as you said, it was reserved for prime time TV. I remember being a kid and wondering why all the news shows started displaying little bugs that said "In stereo, where available."

They also replace all of the music with that gawdawful Ulpio Minucci score...

No doubt, but he was asking about the differences between the two Robotech version. Ulpio's handiwork, sadly, is in both versions. He just sounds (technically) better in the Remastered set.

I suspect an audiophile would be more annoyed by Dolby Digital's generally poor audio quality than that the soundtrack was presented in its native form. In fact, I know they would be, because I've had one rant at me endlessly about it.

Yeah, I used to work at an Audiophile dealership in Columbus, OH. I know the arguments. I don't doubt that in many cases, simple stereo sounds better than 5.1. However, any 5.1 mix collapses down to stereo on command (either for preference, or because the listener only has a stereo set-up). All I'm saying is that, once one gets passed the new sound FX, the new remastered sound track sounds remarkably better than the flat mono track on the original DVD's. Add to that the shiny remastered picture, and I think the Remastered disc are pretty danm good.

[JB0]

Hate to disillusion you though, but "plain old crappy mono" was pretty much what most anime were broadcast in at that point.

Yeah, stereo wasn't even added to the NTSC signal in the US until (I think) 1984. And even then, as you said, it was reserved for prime time TV. I remember being a kid and wondering why all the news shows started displaying little bugs that said "In stereo, where available."

I remember asking about that once.

Something to the effect of how they could not know if stereo was available.

I suspect an audiophile would be more annoyed by Dolby Digital's generally poor audio quality than that the soundtrack was presented in its native form. In fact, I know they would be, because I've had one rant at me endlessly about it.

Yeah, I used to work at an Audiophile dealership in Columbus, OH. I know the arguments. I don't doubt that in many cases, simple stereo sounds better than 5.1. However, any 5.1 mix collapses down to stereo on command (either for preference, or because the listener only has a stereo set-up). All I'm saying is that, once one gets passed the new sound FX, the new remastered sound track sounds remarkably better than the flat mono track on the original DVD's. Add to that the shiny remastered picture, and I think the Remastered disc are pretty danm good.

Ah.

Still makes sense to not compress the audio when you have room to spare.

But I suppose the Dolby logo is good marketing.

[Noriko Takaya]

Noriko Takaya, when it comes to getting the very best, I try to keep money out of it. Where can I pick up the japanese release? Although the alternative does look tempting with the subtitle changes.

340843[/snapback]

You can get the official version here: CD Japan. I have generally bought stuff from them before and they have been great. Another great dealer which is stateside where you can also find a copy of the movie: Robert's Anime Corner Store. Just to advise you, this DVD does not have subtitles. If you want to make your own subtitled copy, you will need to visit the DYRL - Region 2 DVD Subtitles Upgrade, For the Bandai/Emotion Region 2 DVD Only thread.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

But if someone is buying robotech for nostalgia, don't they want to recreate the exact experience they had from that time?

So I would just forget the remastered and get the one which retains the exact sound fx from the original. This is what I have. Since the show was never supposed to have all the features of today, the "enhancements" only seek to destroy what the original was. So if you want a piece of your history to take with you, the originals are superior in that sense.

When I play an game on an emulator for nostalgia for example, I want nothing tampered with. All the same sounds, the same sprites, the music etc should be left intact to recreate the exact thing you felt when you saw it as a kid 20 years ago.

And the memories are conjured up through hearing all the same stuff from before. Often stuff in the deepest recess of your memory surfaces back up again just from being triggered by a simple sound effect. (I had this when I was playing some old commodore c64 games )

Edited October 31, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[bobman]

The reason to get the original DVD version: it is exactly what was on TV 20 years ago--warts and all.

The reason to get the Remastered sets: Superior picture & superior audio (objectively speaking).

[Keith]

The only draw back of these sets is that you won't get the great bonus discs that came with the Legacy Sets.  But if you wait a few weeks, as I said earlier, you can buy a huge boxset with all the restored episodes and all the bonus discs.  That's probably the way to go for you.

I don't mean to be a new guy, ruffling feathers.  Just giving you my honest opinion.

340863[/snapback]

Psst, you'll note I already pointed him towards the protoculture collection in the first reply. All remastered disc's + all bonus disc's from the legacy sets.

[bobman]

Psst, you'll note I already pointed him towards the protoculture collection in the first reply. All remastered disc's + all bonus disc's from the legacy sets.

341045[/snapback]

I know. I was just agreeing with you. You were being overruled by everyone else.

[Pat Payne]

Yeah, stereo wasn't even added to the NTSC signal in the US until (I think) 1984.

Actually, I'm thinking probably no later than '79, since (as I mentioned) a handful of very late Lupin III part two eps were broadcast in '79 and '80 in Stereo.