Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam A New Translation

[azrael]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Bandai only said that they were "looking at the rights," and haven't actually confirmed the license.

Well, they won't have said it if they were not close or otherwise not going to get it. IIRC, they said they were in negotiations at AX2006 only because the last movie was not in theaters yet in Japan. This would indicate to me that as soon as the last movie went to Japanese theaters, then the contract would be settled. Which would also mean that movie I and II were set in stone already and that III was just waiting for the Japanese opening.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Nope, they've definately got it.

Personally, I liked ZZ. It was no Zeta, but it wasn't really meant to be either. It's a pretty decent show if you get past what it's a sequel to. It developed Haman quite nicely, so that's a plus. Sure, it could've been better. Tone down the light-heartedness at the beginning (mainly the really silly aspects), tighten the story up, and it wraps things up pretty well. I'm actually pondering a fan edit to try to do some of that.

I do agree that Glemy's switch off seemed a bit out of place. The whole cloning of Ple seemed out of left-field. Though I liked his end a lot. I wonder if the same would've befallen Char had it gone as planned.

Heck, I'd love to do some sort of audio edit on movie two for Four. Though I doubt I'll get around to it. ;;

[Seven]

Just got done watching it and the changes made were certainly refreshing. I love the scene at the end where you see the Zeta do a slow transform from Waverider to robot then jetissoning the transform parts. What immediately follows that with Camille is definitely more fan friendly as opposed to him being a vegetable. It trades the phyrric victory of the series for a less gut wrenching end.

As for the changes in this movie effectively erasing ZZ's storyline, I still think it would be possible for Judau to take over the Zeta. I haven't watched enough of ZZ, but doesn't Judau steal the Zeta while the Aghama is docked? You assume that Camille would stay with the Ahgama, but its certainly possible Camille and Fa could have decided to leave the AEUG and return to civilian life immediately upon arriving at the colony. I don't think Bright would object given the extreme sacrifices Camille endured for the greater good.

[Keith]

Just got done watching it and the changes made were certainly refreshing. I love the scene at the end where you see the Zeta do a slow transform from Waverider to robot then jetissoning the transform parts. What immediately follows that with Camille is definitely more fan friendly as opposed to him being a vegetable. It trades the phyrric victory of the series for a less gut wrenching end.

As for the changes in this movie effectively erasing ZZ's storyline, I still think it would be possible for Judau to take over the Zeta. I haven't watched enough of ZZ, but doesn't Judau steal the Zeta while the Aghama is docked? You assume that Camille would stay with the Ahgama, but its certainly possible Camille and Fa could have decided to leave the AEUG and return to civilian life immediately upon arriving at the colony. I don't think Bright would object given the extreme sacrifices Camille endured for the greater good.

The major problem, amongst other things, is that Vegatative Camille awakens newtype powers within Judau. With Camille in full force, there's no point to having Judau. Mind you I like ZZ too, and I can't help but think that the decision to make the Zeta movies after all this time would have been better with 100% new animation, there was absolutely no (good) reason not to.

[LePoseur]

I can't help but think that the decision to make the Zeta movies after all this time would have been better with 100% new animation, there was absolutely no (good) reason not to.

Exactaly! The fanboy in me chalks this up as one big missed opportunity, something akin to Alien 3... well maybe not that bad. If they had wanted to do it right it would have been totally reanimated. Not just for the pretty pictures though, for the sake of the plot. While they did a decent job jumping through hoops to connect the edited parts of the story together, none of that would have been necessary if they had used 100% fresh animation. And man, there were some forehead smackers in there, although nothing jumps to memory right now (and there's no way I want to watch back through them to find one) but places where the characters pull complete 180's or just suddenly spout off something that seems so stupid because it's missing the background from the TV show that made it work for me the first time.

Don't get me wrong, I love Zeta but there's just too much in all those episodes to distill down to three movies without a major story overhaul. Without that you get the semi-garbled mess that we got. Some characters should have been merged, or even deleted, and the story flow should have been streamlined for a more theatrical feel - as it is now I feel like it's a story about people just moving between places and fighting as they go. Titan characters seem to get introduced along the way and then get offed at the next encounter. I mean, those of us who knew the story going in seemed to be ok, but I can't imagine this being comprehensible to a new viewer, at least at the depth I'd like them to feel for it. In the third movie especially, once everyone started dying at the end I kept feeling like, "man, I know I should feel something, but..." it just didn't have any of the resonance of what the TV version did.

Then again maybe I'm just pissed that Camille didn't lose it.

Edited December 29, 2006 by LePoseur

[kung flu]

Finally seen all three movies with English translation. I'd say the movies overall were not put together all that well compared to first gundam movies, but they are still good to watch. What i hate most from these movies is the music from Gackt i think it doesn't suit the movies and it sounds terrible especially the ending theme for movie three.

[Seven]

I wonder what changes to the storyline of Char's Counterattack would have to happen due to the alteration of events in the Zeta movies?

For example, Haman choosing to take Neo Zeon out of the Earth vicinity and retreating as opposed to continuing the fight against the AEUG and Federation. Doesn't this screw with Neo Zeon and Char in CC? Also it looks like Axis was destroyed when it hit the Gate of Zedan (Aboaqu) in ZIII, doesn't this mess with the plot with Axis in CC?

Man, I'd love to see a remake of Char's Counterattack with all new animation.

[Black Valkyrie]

I`d leave CCA as it is but ZZ has to be changed.

[Seven]

I`d leave CCA as it is but ZZ has to be changed.

For that to happen, something would need to happen to Neo Zeon to bring them back to Earth raring for a fight in a new ZZ storyline. Something would also need to be done to Haman to take her out of the picture since at the end of ZIII, she appears to be at peace with Earth and AEUG to the point of letting the heir to the throne stay on Earth and retreating to outer space. So yeah, for CCA to happen as is, big changes would need to be made to ZZ. It almost seems like ZZ is being effectively erased from the timeline, so maybe no changes to it are needed if it effectively is taken out of canon retroactively.

[Black Valkyrie]

It all depends on Sunrise/Bandai.

[azrael]

For that to happen, something would need to happen to Neo Zeon to bring them back to Earth raring for a fight in a new ZZ storyline. Something would also need to be done to Haman to take her out of the picture since at the end of ZIII, she appears to be at peace with Earth and AEUG to the point of letting the heir to the throne stay on Earth and retreating to outer space. So yeah, for CCA to happen as is, big changes would need to be made to ZZ. It almost seems like ZZ is being effectively erased from the timeline, so maybe no changes to it are needed if it effectively is taken out of canon retroactively.

ZZ would be gone or significantly altered if Tomino were to continue the movie timeline (Again, this is why it is called "A New Translation"). If we stick to the TV series (MSG, Zeta), then ZZ could stay, but if we look at the MSG movies, then the Zeta movies, then to CCA, we have a problem with ZZ.

[ChrisG]

I don't see why everyone is so hung up on continuity with ZZ and CCA. Nowhere has it ever been said that these movies change continuity. They're just an alternate version of the story, no different from what DYRL is to Macross.

[azrael]

I don't see why everyone is so hung up on continuity with ZZ and CCA. Nowhere has it ever been said that these movies change continuity. They're just an alternate version of the story, no different from what DYRL is to Macross.

Because, IMO, many people don't understand how or why multiple continuities exist for a series. They get confused and blah blah blah. They'll try to make it fit even if it's an alternate telling of the same story. Which is why I mentioned if we stick with the TV series of Zeta, ZZ is fine. If you go by the movies, then well, there's gonna be a problem. Reminds me of Ghost in the Shell. There are 3 different versions, the manga, the movies and Stand Alone Complex. I think I heard a conversation once of somebody trying to explain how SAC worked with the movies.....

[Hikuro]

Well seeing as ZZ wasn't one of the popular UC stories, I don't care if a triology is made for it in the next few years....or ever...course I'd watch it.....but I have no interest till then.

Course to wanting to redo CCA is like wanting to take the Mona Lisa and make her high def....or adding lipstick on her......why screw with a masterpiece when it's already a masterpiece? Or why try redoing a movie when it's already a movie?

What else could you do different? Have Amuro, Char and Quess live? What point would that bring?

Why change the animation when the animation for the movie was pretty damn top quality stuff?

: / I'd say leave that movie alone...

If you want something redone or added too, either finally turning F91 into a TV series, or doing an OVA series of Crossbone.

[Keith]

Or Turn A Space!

[bsu legato]

I don't see why everyone is so hung up on continuity with ZZ and CCA. Nowhere has it ever been said that these movies change continuity. They're just an alternate version of the story, no different from what DYRL is to Macross.

Therein lies the problem with too many fans. They cannot simply resign themselves to the fact that there are more than one version of their franchise of choice, be it Macross, or Gundam, or even Harlock. Instead, they have to preform these ridiculous mental gymnastics to attempt to reconcile the two versions into some cohesive, singular timeline.

[kalvasflam]

I still like the original a bit better since it shows that there is in fact a cost of victory. Camille the vegetable says that you don't always walk away at the end of the day. That said, I did think the movie (all three in fact) could've benefited tremendously from entirely new animation, there is just some transitions that are a little too rough in my opinion. Oh well. Nothing is perfect. But the movies are pretty good.

[Hikuro]

That and I think they should of kept the original ending, I wasn't too thrilled of Camille walking away without a scratch and the only thing bugging him was having to change his helmet.

[kung flu]

I think the movies overrides ZZ, but not CCA. In CCA it did not mention anything about what happened to haman's neo zeon, only a wee bit in Char's speech, but not enough to say what she actually done in ZZ. He could be referring to her appearance during Zeta but not necessary ZZ.

Also since Haman left the earth system in the movies with her entire fleet abandoning Axis, the Federation would take over Axis, then sell it to Char in CCA. As for Camile, he probably had enough of fighting and not bother showing his face in CCA.

[azrael]

I think the movies overrides ZZ, but not CCA.

The movies override nothing. The Zeta movies are a separate entity from the Zeta->ZZ->CCA version of the story. If Tomino wishes to continue with his retelling of Zeta, how he will do it is up to him.

[kung flu]

The movies override nothing. The Zeta movies are a separate entity from the Zeta->ZZ->CCA version of the story. If Tomino wishes to continue with his retelling of Zeta, how he will do it is up to him.

I'm just saying if you were to watch the movies from first gundam to cca without the tv series then it should fit together as ZZ would not have happened, but if you were to watch the Zeta TV series to CCA without ZZ then you have a problem. Cause if you skip ZZ after Zeta tv series then you would be wondering what happened to Haman and Axis. Neo Zeon got defeated in ZZ, leaving the Axis astriod for the Federation. In the Zeta movies Axis was abandoned, leaving it for the federation as i mentioned before blah blah blah.

[Morpheus]

I'm still wandering what happened to Yazan now, If ZZ never existed I would like to see Yazan return in CCA. So, based on the movie series Haman survives (including her Qubeley), this will make a problem since I'm sure Haman will do something when Char is return with his Neo Zeon flag.

That and I think they should of kept the original ending, I wasn't too thrilled of Camille walking away without a scratch and the only thing bugging him was having to change his helmet.

What's bothering me is that since when a MS pilot carried a spare helmet

[Hikuro]

yeah I'm sure Amuro could of used it in the tail end of CCA.

[kung flu]

I'm still wandering what happened to Yazan now, If ZZ never existed I would like to see Yazan return in CCA.

Yazan probably can't do much anyway since the Titans have been wiped out and he was just a pilot

So, based on the movie series Haman survives (including her Qubeley), this will make a problem since I'm sure Haman will do something when Char is return with his Neo Zeon flag.

Since Haman left the earth system leaving mineava sabi behind, she probably gave up and settled down on mars or something and had a family

What's bothering me is that since when a MS pilot carried a spare helmet

Under his seat?

[Keith]

Everyone know's anime pilots never carry spare helmets...ever. Sure it'd be a good idea considering how often they get smashed, shatttered etc.

The only concievable reason I can think of the "spare helmet" thing coming into being, is to take a knock at the whole Mu thing in SEED. But since Tomino doesn't watch AU shows, that doesn't make sense either.

[LinxCrossq]

About the helmet. I thought that was Emma's helmet but I didn't pay much attention to that part.

[kung flu]

I don't see whats the big deal about the spare helmet, does it really matter where he got it from. They always have something that spring out of nowhere like those vernier back packs that fits on their space suit that enables them to move about in space. Where do those come from?

[Impreszive]

I liked the different take on the ending. My friend hated Katz, and was laughing his ass off when he hit the asteroid.

[kung flu]

I liked the different take on the ending. My friend hated Katz, and was laughing his ass off when he hit the asteroid.

I'm glad they still killed off Katz in the movies, he was one of the most annoying characters in the TV series and it would have been more annoying if he survived in the movies. It's still ashame they still killed off Emma, she was one of my favorite characters.

[Keith]

Agreed. Totally wasted opportunity to not kill Emma!

[Impreszive]

Agreed. Totally wasted opportunity to not kill Emma!

But she was killed?

[eugimon]

But she was killed?

yes, that's why it was a wasted oppertunity to NOT kill her.

[Morpheus]

Did I saw Rosamia Badam spirit during the newtype ghost gathering near the end ? As I remember Rosamia only appear in the second movie when she had to eject from the Gaplant, after that we never see her again. So basically she never had any 'connection' with Kamile in the movie.

[Keith]

You must have missed the part where Rosamia came to space to help Kamille, and smacked into Axis...

[Lord of Tetris]

You must have missed the part where Rosamia came to space to help Kamille, and smacked into Axis...

I saw the third movie just yesterday, and it seemed to me that Rosamia's spirit came out of nowhere. She was last seen in movie 2, alive and well.

I've seen the show, and I remember a 10-episode (or so) arc where Rosamia infiltrates the AEUG posing as Camille's sister. But that wasn't in the movie. I kind of wished that, for consistency's sake, Tomino had removed Rosamia's ghost from the final scene of the third movie. As is, it just seems like she appears out of the blue, and one could be forgiven for asking, "Huh? Who's that again?"