1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 (edited) Yeah it's like the difference between macross and DYRL. You never saw a guys head getting cut off, or milia's cruel behaviour to the zentradi soldiers, or the condom vending machine, or unecesary violence in the tv series. In akira you see violence because these biker gangs are out for revenge. I can see this as being real, no matter the unpleasant nature of it, because it is getting even. It would be no different to hikaru wasting that alien with his gunpod and we get to see all the detail of his giant alien face being shot to poo with the gunpod. Did we really have to see it? Nope but thats just what the weapon would do to the aliens face. It wasn't meant to look pleasant. If they did a DYRL of Mospeada, showing the gang violence, the cruelty of the invid torturing that guy to do experiments on his body and making him into a guinea pig, a rape scene, it would be no less out of place than what DYRL was to macross tv series. We see some pretty unpleasant stuff in a hollywood movie (take saving private ryan's violent scenes) and in movies like platoon you see the dark side of a soldier where the guy is enjoying the killing. You get to see how the soldiers begin to hate being in the war and wishing they could get out as soon as possible, and not caring about the big picture and whatever mission on up high needs completing, only about themselves and thier own pain. Why not in mospeada? The war could be unpleasant just like the characters in platoon, who really don't know if they will survive long enough to make it to the end or not. But in Mospeada, you never got that feeling of the ugly side of war. It was like an adventure. And each episode was very optimistic and feel-good and although someone died each episode to save others, this sacrifice was hopeful and inspiring, not gritty and dark, violent and brutal like private ryan, DYRL, platoon, Apocalypse now etc. (limbs being blown clean off, soldiers having fun beating the crap out of the enemy and loving it, enemy soldier being cold and emotionless as they casually finish off thier target like a kid sadistically squashing a bug for entertainment) Even macross Zero was kind of like that. The chic with the scar on her chest suggest she was brutally tortured (possibly raped) and pretty much has no problems beating up a defenceless soldier with arms bound as revenge. May not have been necessary to show it, but the characters when personally motivated enough to hate thier enemy would realistically not play nice when the position and conditions suited them. Not all people should react the same. Edited October 16, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armentage Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 But in Mospeada, you never got that feeling of the ugly side of war. It was like an adventure. And each episode was very optimistic and feel-good and although someone died each episode to save others, this sacrifice was hopeful and inspiring, not gritty and dark, violent and brutal like private ryan, DYRL, platoon, Apocalypse now etc. (limbs being blown clean off, soldiers having fun beating the crap out of the enemy and loving it, enemy soldier being cold and emotionless as they casually finish off thier target like a kid sadistically squashing a bug for entertainment) 337071[/snapback] Heh you make it sound like an RPG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danth Posted October 16, 2005 Author Share Posted October 16, 2005 Hey, did anyone else get the feeling that the Unmanned Legioss were really scary and would blast friend & foe alike? I got the feeling that they were step one of the Scorched Earth plan (step two being the charged particle bombs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 So I am not the only one who thinks the translation almost completely ruins the show. Well, that's good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I felt the general message was that they got so disgusted with the human race that they said "screw it" and decided to leave to continue their evoluton elsewhere, the people of Earth just barely being lucky enough for the Inbit to feel compassion for, and prevented humans from whiping themselves out (and cleaning up the planet to boot). I couldn't agree more. I said something to this effect on the RT website once and no one seemed to second my opinion. Apparently everyone there insists that the Invid just plain got beat... I didn't see it that way at all. There's also a predominant opinion that the Shadow Fighters could have succeeded in killing the Regis, this is another notion I sincerely doubt. You have to admit, the very concept that the Mars fleet was taken out not simply due to an Inbit attack, but because they didn't prep their approach for the potential of ozone being restored to the atmosphere is incredibly funny. When i first watched the original MOSPEADA and they mentioned they were having problems with the atmosphere I almost spat the soda I was drinking out in laughter. I prefer RT's notion that the captain is just going excessively fast because he knows his ship can't stand another attack. If they did a DYRL of Mospeada, showing the gang violence, the cruelty of the invid torturing that guy to do experiments on his body and making him into a guinea pig, a rape scene, it would be no less out of place than what DYRL was to macross tv series. While I would prefer rape scenes be left to hentai I agree in a large part with what you're saying. Personally though, I like the upbeat overall message and I would worry the version of MOSPEADA your discussing would be overly bleak. Part of MOSPEADA's charm is its moments of campiness. If you stripped it of the camp and added cannibalism and rapists I think it'd be really hard to ever get that "Yeah, way to go!" feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 I've enjoyed what I've seen of it a lot. I haven't seen the Robotech version(closer I've come is that Yellow Dancer concert at AX). I've been meaning to pick it up. Yeah, the Mars Fleet bit was rather odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 (edited) I couldn't agree more. I said something to this effect on the RT website once and no one seemed to second my opinion. Apparently everyone there insists that the Invid just plain got beat... I didn't see it that way at all. Umm, sorry, but Sera tells the Regiss that the Invid are outnumbered by the REF in Robotech. The Invid lack the ability to wake up their people en masse because of the FoL issue. There's also a predominant opinion that the Shadow Fighters could have succeeded in killing the Regis, this is another notion I sincerely doubt. Well, they weren't gonna play tiddily-winks with her. I imagine a couple of blasts from a Destabilizer would have ended her career as Queen Bee. Now, whether that is the case in Mospeada is entirely a different matter. I prefer RT's notion that the captain is just going excessively fast because he knows his ship can't stand another attack. Yes, I would say that Robotech has a far more plausible explanation. Edited October 17, 2005 by 1st Border Red Devil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Umm, sorry, but Sera tells the Regiss that the Invid are outnumbered by the REF in Robotech. The Invid lack the ability to wake up their people en masse because of the FoL issue. We weren't talking about robotech, he said he brought up the issue (about Mospeada, not robotech) over there. Well, they weren't gonna play tiddily-winks with her. I imagine a couple of blasts from a Destabilizer would have ended her career as Queen Bee. Now, whether that is the case in Mospeada is entirely a different matter. Not even remotely the case in Mospeada. Yes, I would say that Robotech has a far more plausible explanation. 337301[/snapback] I didn't say I dissagrree'd with the plausability of the Mospeada explanation, just that I found their choice to be (intentionally) funny, as a commentary on humans that they didn't even "expet" for there to be ozone. Miscalculating atmospheric conditions, especially when being away from the planet & having no idea about its revival is quite plausable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gui Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 (edited) I appreciate Mospeada for what it is and what it was, I was just saying it would have been interesting to see a darker version of the show. I know alot of purists and other fans would consider that heresy but its just one guys opinion. 337055[/snapback] You should take a look to Blue Gender, the TV series, not the movie, though this one has some good points aswell despite its 'Let's sell more of this show into a movie format with a different ending for the addicted fans' feeling As for the whole ruined Earth and people minds argument, I'd say that some sort of civilisation can survive to the destruction of the planet or at least its countries as political states: humans are social beings who need to be together and to help each other in order to survive. That's our instinct. Even some monkeys show similar organizations in the structure of their 'clans', at a more basic level of course but still, they are not merciless brutes who understand only pure strength: maybe it's more a matter of genes than civilisation, at least this is what some recent scientific researches tend to demonstrate and it is a very important aspect of the wild life because it implies that it's civilisation which transforms humans as beasts in bringing constant competition between them... But I digress. I agree with you that more darker aspects could have been exploited (and I do think that Houquet was raped: you don't come back after years to take revenge of a simple physical fight, even if very bad, but you come back after a so much long time to claim revenge for a flesh hurt to the soul...) but I can understand the point of view of the producers who didn't want to hurt the feelings of a young audience : the majority of movies and shows given as examples in this thread are either for older watchers and/or more recent productions therefore there isn't any real comparison possible IMO Edit: spelling thing... Edited October 17, 2005 by Gui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 If you "really" want to see a dark series, go check out Now And Then, Here And There. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit29 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Mospeada and the word awesome used in the same sentence? I found the show pretty mediocre. It starts out good but soon after it becomes pointless. The ending seemed a little rushed(like alot of anime TV series). The characters aren't very interesting. I really didn't care what happened to them. Mint in both RT/Mospeada is very annoying. And the BGM is alright but Yellow's songs are just awful. RT's version is bad too. I do like the Inbits though. Cool design. Check out Armored Trooper VOTOMS or Blue Gender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit29 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 But in Mospeada, you never got that feeling of the ugly side of war. It was like an adventure. And each episode was very optimistic and feel-good and although someone died each episode to save others, this sacrifice was hopeful and inspiring, not gritty and dark, violent and brutal like private ryan, DYRL, platoon, Apocalypse now etc. (limbs being blown clean off, soldiers having fun beating the crap out of the enemy and loving it, enemy soldier being cold and emotionless as they casually finish off thier target like a kid sadistically squashing a bug for entertainment) DYRL? is comparable to Saving Private Ryan, Platoon and Apocaplypse Now? Umm no. DYRL? never in anyway reaches the level of violence or dark themes that those movies do. I don't remember seeing any J-pop idols singing in any of those films... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gui Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 If you "really" want to see a dark series, go check out Now And Then, Here And There. 337531[/snapback] A great show aswell, but not really into the Mospeada-esque 'Earth is in the hands of strange unknown monsters' theme that you can find into Blue Gender IMO: this is why I recommended this last one However Now And Then, Here And There is definitely amongst my all-time favorites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 (edited) DYRL? is comparable to Saving Private Ryan, Platoon and Apocaplypse Now? Umm no. DYRL? never in anyway reaches the level of violence or dark themes that those movies do. I don't remember seeing any J-pop idols singing in any of those films... I meant relative to the tv series. There are some pretty disgusting scenes in DYRL: -guy with his head cut off. (totally unecessary but humorous just like the bit in private ryan with the guy getting head shot after taking off helmet or the cut-off head in apocalypse now. That made me want to puke.) -Milia crushing the head of the soldiers she fights by stomping the mech's foot and twisting it around on thier faces as they whimper in fear. (another unecesarily violent scene) -Blood pissing out of the Kamjin's mouth as he dies slowly from shot in the back. Not necessary to die so dramatically, but it does add more realism. -The alien boss face being shot with the gunpod at close range and as he cries in agony you see the portions of his skull and brains splatter all over the place. -people's face being melted at point blank range as milia punches a hole in the face of the soldiers mecha. This was a fatal death - the character didn't just want to beat the pilot in combat but kill the person inside. The way she goes about it is pretty cold and uncaring. No remorse for the death of the pilot, only contempt for thier inability to survive. These bits make the series darker for thier more graphically violent scenes. In the tv series you don't see somebody get thier head crushed in like that by going into that detail. Similarly in macross zero we see a person getting beaten on the ground with no way to defend himself. This was a pretty dark scene, maybe not on the same scale as akira but very reminiscent of some of the stuff in platoon. (ie the guy who has his head bashed in by the soldier, and the soldier showing no restraint. We may not see the guy's bruised head on the ground cracked and bleeding but it is a powerful scene.) What I want to see is the equivalent of Akira level's of violence in mospeada. We should at the least have people losing limbs when near an explosion, or images of dead bodies, blood, dismemberment, bruises, swearing, cruelty, lots of violent death basically, real crying in pain and agony and suffering etc. Whereas macross was a war. Mospeada was an adventure with RPG characters. The stories and transforming mecha were good though, but the world just didn't reel me in the way macross's world did though. To me, the senseless death was just a device put into each episode that made me want to care for the character, but all it did was cheapened the effect making me not believe the story. That is each episode has 1 new guy die at the end by sacrificing himself to the point it is predictable. In yamato movie it worked because he was the main character and we were with him all the way - all the options were gone. The life he gave by the sacrifice of his own, left this powerful message for those who were built up to not want to see death. They treated it like a big goodbye, but for each death in mospeada it was very formulaic. Like it was chucked in at the last minute like some sick ritual. (kenny in southpark ) But you have to feel like these are real people not just characters put in for a story. I guess unecessary stuff like rape (something like this almost happens in mac7 actually) might not be a pleasant thing to have in a show designed only for entertainment, but for me it can add a bit more depth and realism into a show if it is not just put in for the sake of it. Like how I mentioned about the bike gangs in a post apoc setting, being predators, it would make sense for them to try to attempt to take anything by force, including people's possessions, lives, your freedom to do what you want, just because they can, and just because it is something for them to do and nobody is going to be around to stop them doing it - hunting thier prey in packs like wolves. That might not be the typical person you know, but criminals do this with no regard for others so it makes sense to show it whether you like to see it or not; and so it is shown. The thing I liked about private ryan is that they attempted realism by recreating that horror as well as other things. But they didn't necessarily glorify it. It was just there for you. How you react to it is your choice, but like aliens or braveheart, maybe being disgusted, scared and horrified is the intention. To make you feel like "if you were there, this is what you might be exposed to". Yeah it is not pretty but that added realism and depth, which made it stick in your mind even after the movie was over, leaving a lasting impression, and maybe making you think about it more. Edited October 22, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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