New game law in California........

[MGREXX]

California Governon Arnold "i'll be back" Schwarzenegger, has signed California bill AB1179 into law. The bill will take effect in January 2006:

Gamespot article #1

I say it's about time that retailers were made responsible for selling T and M rated games to kids who are not teens or 17.

On a related note, this is the kind of stuff that happens (sometimes) when crazy kids get to play these games:

Gamespot article #2

They should have given this kid the f*&%^ng chair instead.

Thought's on this new bill?

Edited October 8, 2005 by MGREXX

[Dangaioh]

I don't know how long this will be closed, or even erased... but the idea putting blame away for a kid's behavior from parent to a retailer is just plain wrong.

If a parent cannot control a kid because they are misbehaving, being unruly, no form of discipline, getting in trouble by the law, blamming the gamming industry while still buying violent games for their perfect little angels, and not take personal responsibility should get off their high horse of morality imposed stupidity, get spaded or nutered, join a convent and have a pole stuck up their rear end and not have kids literally.

BTW, I blame the gamming industry for replying into this post.

Edited October 8, 2005 by Dangaioh

[Hikuro]

It's one of those moral deals and there's no wrong or right answer for it really.

It's like a 9 year old buys Quake or Halo, or Grand Theft Auto, the kid is fully aware of what the game provides, violence and death, the retailer is aware of this, the parents at many times, are not.

Parents don't put an influence on what their childern do, but they ARE aware nearly all video games are violent and should be banned in some fashion and thus we're stuck with nothing but mario

You know, in some way, Mario is a violent game cause you step on animals or abuse them in some fashion, thus mario is banned.

Its the childs fault for taking a game into reality and translating a game material to his or her interactions in the real.

That's my opinion.

If kids just plain and simply say they're insane, they keep their lives but only harm them selves by being neglected from public attention. But atleast they wouldn't hurt anyone else.

[MGREXX]

I don't know how long this will be closed, or even erased... but the idea putting blame away for a kid's behavior from parent to a retailer is just plain wrong.

If a parent cannot control a kid because they are misbehaving, being unruly, no form of discipline, getting in trouble by the law, blamming the gamming industry while still buying violent games for their perfect little angels, and not take personal responsibility should get off their high horse of morality imposed stupidity, get spaded or nutered, join a convent and have a pole stuck up their rear end and not have kids literally.

BTW, I blame the gamming industry for replying into this post.

335087[/snapback]

You can't place 100% of the responsibility on the parents. That is ridiculous. Sure parent's should be ones keeping on top of things and police their own children but not all parents are created equally and retailers should bear some of the responsibility.

The way I see it is that we have the ESRB and most retailers DO NOT repsect it. I have seen this first hand, so they should be fined for not follwoing the ESRB. The ESRB is not a governing body nor does it have any pull but does serve a need that parent's can use as a guide.

Unfortunately, mmany parents still think that games are still Pacman and Mario titles and have no idea of the amount of violence and sex, that many games have. I still play games because I like them and how the industry has matured the field. yet, I also play them and keep up to date to see what my kids want to play and decide if it's suitable for them or not.

Regardless, we need all the help we can get, especially in liberal states like California, New York, etc.... which are not family friendly. If kids want to play games, they will....by any means necessary, so road blocks like this new law, can only help. Hell, they should add to the law and include penalties for parent's who buy their kids inappropriate games and call it the "$tupid and/or non-caring parent's law".

Edited October 8, 2005 by MGREXX

[Dangaioh]

Then who's responsibility to ensure what is real or fantasy, certainly not the government (doesn't matter if they are Republican, Libertarian, democrapic, or Independant)?

Kids are still impressionable still at an early age, and will do the same thing a mother, father or older sibling may do. The child will then copy or atleast almost mimick the same action and consider it cool or alright to do. Especially if the older family members are acting in a way that may deemed inexcusable.

To the parent's that want the easy way out, the new babysitter in town comes in a shiny new box which includes a one time fee of about $200.00+ (console) and a game that is about $50.00+.

When I worked at Aladdin's Castle and EBGames, parents usually dropped off kids at our stores and expects us to baby sit for them while they go shopping.

[Noriko Takaya]

It's one of those moral deals and there's no wrong or right answer for it really.

It's like a 9 year old buys Quake or Halo, or Grand Theft Auto, the kid is fully aware of what the game provides, violence and death, the retailer is aware of this, the parents at many times, are not.

335091[/snapback]

First of all, why is a retailer selling a 9 year-old one of these games in the first place when there are already laws on the books regarding the sale of said games to minors in the first place. Of course the retailer should get burned for it if he gets caught. Then again, we get parents who listen to the adolescent urges of their children on how they must have these games because they are so cool and so trendy, but fail to do any research on the background of those games. A parent should be involved in every aspect of what their child is doing, even bordering on the grounds of actual spying to make sure their kids are doing the right thing. That is their job. Parents are not there to be best buddies with their children. That "Okay, I'll get them that INSERT HERE and he and his friends will think I'm the coolest parent on the block!" mentality is what's wrong with youth today. Parents no longer take responsibility for what their children do. Before long game designers are going to start getting sued because of what idiots do with their products. You watch. It will be coming. You have been warned.

On a lighter note, I find it quite funny that the country the United States fought for so long during the cold war get more and more freedom by the day, while the US seems to be losing more and more each day. Why did we need another law when there is already one in place? More money taken from the taxpayer by a bureaucratic idiot (sorry Arnold) to fund something utterly useless which will do absolutely nothing. It's just like the gun industry. Soon we will have a two week waiting period to buy Mario Cart because the police need to do a background check. Yeah, laugh it up. It's coming...

[Dangaioh]

You can't place 100% of the responsibility on the parents.  That is ridiculous.  Sure parent's should be ones keeping on top of things and police their own children but not all parents are created equally and retailers should bear some of the responsibility.

I do blame them, I worked in retail, if the parents cannot open their eyes to a child's problem, then it is their fault. If parents cannot be mature and responsible enough to take care of their child, why did they have kids in the first place?

I gotta admit for those that do have a problem with children not based by environment, but within the child mentally or psychologically (not caused by the entertainment industry or parental behavior), I can't blame them for that.

The way I see it is that we have the ESRB and most retailers DO NOT repsect it.  I have seen this first hand, so they should be fined for not follwoing the ESRB.  The ESRB is not a governing body nor does it have any pull but does serve a need that parent's can use as a guide.

um retailers respect the ESRB, however, we do not police customers, it breaks their ammendment right to privacy. We just warn them.

Unfortunately,  mmany parents still think that games are still Pacman and Mario titles and have no idea of the amount of violence and sex, that many games have.  I still play games because I like them and how the industry has matured the field.  yet, I also play them and keep up to date to see what my kids want to play and decide if it's suitable for them or not.

Times have changed, and I see the parents do buy these games and understand the difference, because most of them are my age or older. Parents are informed enough to know what titles are being bought and do ask questions.

Regardless, we need all the help we can get, especially in liberal states like California, New York, etc.... which are not family friendly.  If kids want to play games, they will....by any means necessary, so road blocks like this new law, can only help.  Hell, they should add to the law and include penalties for parent's who buy their kids inappropriate games and call it the "I'm a $tupid or non-caring parent law".

One of the many reason for that is because they are playing into the parents fear. You need a way to control the kids actions and the government has found a way by releasing the responsibility of morality away from the parents and imposed it on a law. (I gotta read 1984 again.... 1+1=3)

Yes, kids will play the games any means necessary, the only way to break most of these is to ensure to take away their source of entertainment, be there when they are playing games, play the games with them, reduce the amount of time being played, question their taste in games, and ask if they understand the difference between reality and fantasy.

Edited October 8, 2005 by Dangaioh

[Noriko Takaya]

Regardless, we need all the help we can get, especially in liberal states like California, New York, etc.... which are not family friendly.  If kids want to play games, they will....by any means necessary, so road blocks like this new law, can only help.  Hell, they should add to the law and include penalties for parent's who buy their kids inappropriate games and call it the "$tupid and/or non-caring parent's law".

335093[/snapback]

You know, I agree with what you say with the first part of this statement. Children should be kept out of those liberal places. But why add on to a law that is already established? Either you uphold it or you don't. That is the trouble with making new laws. It's a touchy feely kind of approach to make everyone think something is going to get done, but never does. Why not start adhering to the first law, send out scouts to buy games, and then nail the suckers breaking the law in the first place? The tobacco and alcohol industries have been doing this for years. And to top it off, nail the idiot trying to buy the game also with some kind of penalty. Parents will think twice about what their kids are doing if they bring home a ticket with a $200 fine attached.

[DeathHammer]

Please Delete Thanks

Edited February 8, 2010 by DeathHammer

[cwbrown]

First of all, why is a retailer selling a 9 year-old one of these games in the first place when there are already laws on the books regarding the sale of said games to minors in the first place. Of course the retailer should get burned for it if he gets caught.

Actually, my understanding is that there are no previous laws restricting sales of any games to children. All the laws so far have been struck down as against the First Amendment because they are content-based (it's complicated). For example, Illionois had a law banning games that were "too violent" for everybody. This was struck down. However, I do not believe that any state passed a law banning sales to children of M or AO games alone, which would probably hold up because "it protects the children" (it's a cute, but understandable, hole in the First Amendment jurisprudence).

[EXO]

Wow... a thread that talks about terrorists, the governor and liberals. Awesome thread man!

[Dangaioh]

We are getting to political, time to close and erase... and the funny thing, there was no poo being thrown.

[Noriko Takaya]

Actually, my understanding is that there are no previous laws restricting sales of any games to children.  All the laws so far have been struck down as against the First Amendment because they are content-based (it's complicated).  For example, Illionois had a law banning games that were "too violent" for everybody.  This was struck down.  However, I do not believe that any state passed a law banning sales to children of M or AO games alone, which would probably hold up because "it protects the children" (it's a cute, but understandable, hole in the First Amendment jurisprudence).

335103[/snapback]

If you want to look at it this way, I consider the ESRB rating system to be a kind of law in itself. But I guess it should be taken more as a "I bear no responsibility for what your kids do because I rated the game" label. This is where I'm coming up with the whole law thing. To me, the rating label is just another form of censorship. I still say parents should do the right thing and police their children. Research the shit before you actually buy it.

[Noriko Takaya]

We are getting to political, time to close and erase... and the funny thing, there was no poo being thrown.

335108[/snapback]

Hey, games are political. It sucks saying that, but it's true. Just another hobby of ours that is in danger of being restricted.

Just thinking, the holodeck on the Enterprise as used in Star Trek:TNG. I realize that this is fictitious, but you could do anything on that game deck. Sex, violence, what-have-you... And there were kids on that ship. How do you think something like that would be affected by today's standards? I think it never would have been created.

Edited October 8, 2005 by Noriko Takaya

[MGREXX]

Yes,

Our society is all screwed up.

Try and correct your kid in a store and see if the employees don't call the cops on you, if you spank them or pull their hair. I saw it happen.

Argue with a teacher that you are not physically abusing your kids because the kid has bruises from playing outside (and lies to get back at the parent). It happened to my sister-in-law. Kids in this country have way to much power and know it. They don't respect their elders and think they know it all.

Video games may not be the cause of our ill's but these games sure as hell don't help matters.

[EXO]

Yes... spanking and pulling their hair is the way to correct your kids. Kids with SHOULD be investigated, no matter what the parents say. Geez, MGREXX, I didn't know you're such an advocate for beating kids... I should have known though. You're posts are always so matter of fact, that if anyone argued with you, they surely got a beating especially if they were under the age of fifteen.

[Sumdumgai]

Lots of parents just can't parent. Even ones that have had higher education, have learned lots of stuff, and can hold companies.

Corporal punishment only works to a point. If parents would actually explain things to their kids, what they are supposed to do instead of what they did wrong, they would learn. Bending over so your kid can kick you in the ass and ignore what you're saying, because you don't want to impose on their freedom, is retarded.

It's the parents fault for being poor parents. You have to pass a bunch of tests to get a driver's license. But to have and raise a kid, which is much more difficult, you don't need to show you learned anything in life to be able to do so.

There will always be stupid incompetent people, because stupid incompetent people raise stupid kids that can't differentiate reality from fantasy.

Although I must admit, corporal punishment although ineffective, can be damned well satisfying... But then you get trapped in using it as a way to take out your anger on the kid.

[the white drew carey]

Remember the days when parents would sue because they found an Ozzy album on the record player after their kid killed himself? Same thing.

Many parents just want to absolve all responsibility if their kid does something wrong.

I grew up in an environment where I could play whatever games I wanted, listen to whatever music I wanted and do basically anything my little mind came to as long as it wasn't a crime. You want to know why I was able to do this: My parents had the good sense to instill in me the concept of right and wrong. Sure, I did stupid things, but I was punished for my actions, and learned my lesson.

Parents are ultimately responsible for any action their child does. If they cannot control their own children, then the child should be put into a foster home or taken under the care of the state and the parents should not be allowed to breed anymore. THAT IS THE DUTY OF A PARENT!!!

If states or the government want to regulate the sale of video games, that's fine by me. As long as they cannot stop a game from being released, I don't care. I'll buy my children any game they want, and I'll sit there and play it with them and enforce the concept that the game is only fantasy.

I'm not going to be worried until the government starts saying that "GTA7: Circusville" can't be released because they don't like seeing a senator screw a clown. Then it IS impinging on freedom of speech and I'll tear holy hell.

[JsARCLIGHT]

When my father was a kid in the '50s there was no such thing as video games... what they had back then where toy guns. He and his friends would go outside and play cowboys and indians or war and pretend to shoot each other dead. They ran everywhere all over the neighborhood engaging in mock combat with each other. They used their imaginations to pretend to kill... just like the hundreds of thousands of other kids in the country at the time. They did whatever their imaginations let them do... and their imaginations nine times out of ten where fueled by "children's TV", which at the time was cowboys shooting indians, army men shooting each other and all other manner of violence. At the end of the day their fathers would take them on their knee and tell them about the real wars, the wars they fought and the effect of those wars. They told them about their buddies who died and their friends they lost. The reality of this play war started to sink in. As they grew older they traded their toy guns for BB guns and learned the true cause and effect of weapons. You shoot something, it gets damaged. You shoot an animal, it dies. They learned the causality of violence. As they became men almost all of them volunteered or got drafted into Vietnam. Some came back, some didn't. Every single one of them learned the law of violence: you will kill or you will die. Violence begets violence. They came full circle from playing at war, to learning the wages of war.

Fast forward to my childhood. I spent my childhood running through the subdivision, toy gun in hand, engaging on mock battles with my friends. We were fueled by the television and movies of the late '70s and our own imaginations. We played cops and robbers rather than cowboys and indians but the end result was the same... we shot each other in mock combat. My father like his before him talked with me about the real wars in the world and the reality of it all. Then as I also grew older my father bought me a BB rifle as well... and just as he did I learned the wages of violence. I shot something and it broke, I shot an animal and it died. The reality of it all seeped in. I learned the causality of violence. I too grew up. I too joined the Army and went to my own modern war. And I too learned that violence begets violence when I moved from playing war to living a war. I saw the same things firsthand that my father saw decades before. I knew what he and everyone else told me was true... just like what people told him when he was a kid.

Fast forward to today.

Suddenly, some sort of shift occured.

Toy guns still exsist and kids still shoot each other in mock combat, just now it's not a plastic M16 they hold but a neon colored space gun. Do the fathers still talk to their kids about the real wars in the world? BB guns still exsist and a handful of kids still learn the hard truth of real weapons from them... only now the BB gun is regulated and controled almost like a real firearm and most parents fear them. They will not let their little angel have one because they think he will hurt himself with it... so they avoid it. They sweep it under the rug. And now today, video games exsist... these games remove the imagination from the mock combat but at the same time they allow the kids to be kids. To kill and maim... just all in a safe "imaginary play" world. Just like when my father was a kid and I was a kid, kids today have their imaginary wars. The difference is that some aren't learning anything from these imaginary wars... or so we think.

Either through fault of their parents, fault of their environment or fault of themselves their minds never develop the respect and fear of REAL violence and death... most likely because any exposure they would have had to the reality of it all has been stolen from them by a society intent on banning, controling and limiting everything. While at the same time that same society glorifies violence, crime and any number of other bad things... elevating guns and violence into an almost godlike place. You can shoot someone in a video game but heaven forbid the child actually see or learn anything about a real gun. This builds up the mystical awe that kids today have for guns and violence... by letthing them "taste" that dark world but then forbidding them to go further and learn the truth about it all whets their apetites but takes away the meal... at the same time ruining the lesson they should be learning.

But then sending mixed messages is the rule of the day. In my childhood and my father's childhood we wanted to emulate our heroes who were the cops, the astronauts, the fighter pilots, the firemen... people who help society. None of us wanted to be the robbers when playing cops and robbers. None of us wanted to be the "bad guys". But in today's world somehow the "Bad guys" have become the good guys. Everyone wants to be the pimp, the drug dealer, the criminal... the killer.

Who's fault is that? Everyones. Should the state step in and regulate all this? No. More regulaton pushes it all down one step further... it removes the chances for kids to have things explained, parents to parent and people to learn. Everyone should step up and do their best to correct the shift before it becomes too far gone... but we are living in a modern world where kids can't play by themselves anymore... where people are so litigious that they will sue for their own stupid mistakes... where blame lies on everyone but you.

There where bad kids in my father's childhood, bad kids in my childhood and bad kids today. The only difference is the rules of the game have changed... should we keep making more rules in a vain attempt to fix a situation we see happening? Or should we all just step up to the plate and fix it ourselves?

All I know is that more rules never solve anything. More laws simply make more criminals... sometimes they make criminals out of people who have done nothing wrong. What we need to do is go back to parenting rather than letting the world parent for us... and we also need to let our kids experience more rather than reigning them in, controling them and what they are exposed to. Knowledge de-mystifies things... cold hard facts take the allure away. Let kids see the bad... then perhaps they will appreciate the good.

[MGREXX]

Yes... spanking and pulling their hair is the way to correct your kids.   Kids with SHOULD be investigated, no matter what the parents say.  Geez, MGREXX, I didn't know you're such an advocate for beating kids... I should have known though.  You're posts are always so matter of fact, that if anyone argued with you, they surely got a beating especially if they were under the age of fifteen.

335116[/snapback]

Oh my god. I forgot that you are one of those metrosexulas, huh EXOidiot?

Don't touch your kids, just expalin it to them and help them see the way. DO not yell at them but make them understand the error of their ways. Put them high on a pedistal and tell them that they will be loved by all as long as they get in touch with their inner feelings and love everybody.

The real world does not work like that unless you want to raise a kid with issues and false hopes of the real world. You talk to them and expalin things to them but corporal punishment IS A MUST 5% of the time. I have laid my hands on my son 4 times since he was born and he is almost 5. I have a 14 month old and have slapped his hand once. Verbal scloding only goes so far but a good spanking and hand slapping will go even further because physical punishment reinforces how important your message is that you are trying to get across, unlesss you use it as a means all of the time, then you are just wrong. I say use the hand here and there on those rare and special occassions where it is necessary.....as long as you can control yourself and don't make it a habbit. If you hit them too hard, too much or even leave a bruise, then you are going too far.

It's just like when I went thru Basic training (1989). The Drill sergeants could push us, shove us, get in our faces and even "smoke" us until we nearly passed out. Right when I was getting ready to get out in 1993, the newbies that came in would tell us that they could not be touched, yelled at them up close or "smoke" them. What kind of $hit was that. I thank Bill Clinton for that one....damn liberals.

What I am trying to say is that physical punishment is a necessary component of raising a child into a mature and responsible adult. Treat them like royalty all of the time and you get messed up people like Exoidiot and AgentDumb.

Edited October 8, 2005 by MGREXX

[MGREXX]

Some of you are missing the point of video games when comparing them to movies and playing pretend. When you play cowboys and indians, you pretend and don't really imagine what happens when you shoot or stab somebody, since you are just having fun. When wathching a movie, it's just a passive event. You see what happens but you are just an observer.

When you play games, YOU are the one doing the killing and seeing the result of your actions. For adults it's just fun but for some youth, it blurs the line and makes some of them feel empowered to do things that they might normally only think about because they are all ready somewhat disturbed.

INTERACTION.

THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE PEOPLE!!!!!

Edited October 8, 2005 by MGREXX

[JsARCLIGHT]

How is that different?

When I was a kid playing cops and robbers and war I was physically hitting, pushing, shooting with my gun... with video games kids are just sitting... pushing buttons... watching their button pushing unfold. Video games are interactive movies... the are very passive. All the emotion and pent up frustration you see kids emote when playing games is there because they are not PHYSICALLY doing the thing they see happening. And that is yet another part of the whole mysticism of video games... they allow kids to see, but not truly participate.

Does anyone else remember that rush? That rush of jumping your friend from an ambush, knocking him down and wrestling his toy gun away from him? That surge of adrenaline from running through yards with your friends behind you in pursuit trying to "kill" you?

Pretend play is all about doing the action and pretending the consequences. Video games are all about pretending the action AND the consequences. The physical activity is what separates them.

Do you know how hard it is to actually shoot another human being? Do you know how it feels to really hold a pistol, aim, and fire it into living tissue? Hear the screams? See the blood? Few people know that... and video games and make believe don't prepare you for it in the least. To say that they do is a lie.

[MGREXX]

How is that different?

When I was a kid playing cops and robbers and war I was physically hitting, pushing, shooting with my gun... with video games kids are just sitting... pushing buttons... watching their button pushing unfold. Video games are interactive movies... the are very passive. All the emotion and pent up frustration you see kids emote when playing games is there because they are not PHYSICALLY doing the thing they see happening. And that is yet another part of the whole mysticism of video games... they allow kids to see, but not truly participate.

Does anyone else remember that rush? That rush of jumping your friend from an ambush, knocking him down and wrestling his toy gun away from him? That surge of adrenaline from running through yards with your friends behind you in pursuit trying to "kill" you?

Pretend play is all about doing the action and pretending the consequences. Video games are all about pretending the action AND the consequences. The physical activity is what separates them.

Do you know how hard it is to actually shoot another human being? Do you know how it feels to really hold a pistol, aim, and fire it into living tissue? Hear the screams? See the blood? Few people know that... and video games and make believe don't prepare you for it in the least. To say that they do is a lie.

335152[/snapback]

When you "shot" him when pretending, did his head explode in a gush of blood? DId you hit him so hard that he coughed up blood and was black and blue?

In games, this is done and more....BY US!!!

We are in a virtual world where we do things that we can't or should not do.

For some people, that line is blurred.....especially immature kids.

[JsARCLIGHT]

When you "shot" him when pretending, did his head explode in a gush of blood?  DId you hit him so hard that he coughed up blood and was black and blue?

On some occasions, yes. I remember coming home all buised up, bleeding from cuts and gashes. When you do something to someone in the physical world you know what level of exertion it takes to do damage. You know if you hit someone they will bruise up. We were tough kids and we kept hitting and tripping and tackling each other all the time. One kid on my block actually had his arm broken by another kid. I had one of my toy guns trained on a kid after hitting him to the ground and he got up and ran into the metal muzzle of it which cut his face that he needed stitches to fix... and I felt terrible about that. I saw his face hit the muzzle of my gun and I saw the gash, the flap of flesh hanging there, blood oozing out. It bothered me. I knew I had done something wrong when I saw that. And I got in trouble for it... I fessed up, my dad and his dad yelled at us both, he went to the hospital and had stitches... I saw the whole process from injury to recovery and had the whole range of responsabilty for that action placed on me.

In games, this is done and more....BY US!!!

We are in a virtual world where we do things that we can't or should not do.

For some people, that line is blurred.....especially immature kids.

335153[/snapback]

The line is blurred because they are just sitting there. They are not experiencing it. They are simply passively watching, consuming. They are not running down the street with a gun in their hand... they are pushing buttons that make someone else do that. They are influencing a story, not participating in it. Games are simply passive distractions... like watching TV. And just like watching TV all you do is sit there and push buttons. When something you don't want to happen happens or something you don't want to see occurs you simply push a button and something else happens. The anger, the frustration and emotion that pours out of kids while playing video games happens because they are not seeing what they want to see happen. The same thing happens when kids play soccer or chess or chutes and ladders. Kids have very little control over their emotions because they are kids... they don't posess the experience and age that allow for more metered control of our base emotions.

Either way, playing a video game is akin to watching a violent movie on TV. If the viewer wants to see more violence they push a button and change the channel to one that has more violence. Claiming that the player has "full control" over the video game is erronious. You never have "full control" over a video game. The only control you have is within the construct of the game. If the game is called "kill everyone" then the point of the game and what the result of button pushing will be will be killing. If the game is "happy pony picnic" then the result of button pushing will be ponies having a picnic. No matter how hard you mash those buttons the ponies will not kill each other and the killer will not have a picnic. Games, just like movies, are simply one dimentional passive entertainment. People who have problems with that are the same who have problems with violent movies, violent TV, violent music and violent books. The effects of violence on a weak mind in a vaccuum of explaination can warp a mind. The catalyst is not the violence, it is the vaccuum of explaination... which in the case of children is parental supervision.

[Roy Focker]

Opinion Piece:

Parents are just afraid to say "no" to their little brats and want others to look out for them.

Where I live people are concerned about people driving fast near homes and schools. There are so many traffic signs it's confusing. When ever some people talk about fixing the confusing traffic rules some parent group or another step forward and scream "Won't some body think of the childern?"

Won't some body think about us adults who think it's retarded to drive this way? No I don't want to run over someone's kid but there would be nothing to worry about if a parent just watched the little bastards. Yes people are morons who will let there kids play out in the middle of the street. Instead of doing their job and watching their kids they expect society to watch out for them.

Same thing goes for the kids form of entertainment. Hasn't nearly every game or movie that some parents flip have out about been clearly marked as not for kids? Ratings or not titles and subject matter gives you a pretty good clue of what's for kids. I've been in a video store once and saw a kid pick up a MA rated game. I've pointed out I think that's too old for you. Then saw the clerks sale the kid the game. You can say lets make a law so the clerk won't sale the game or a law that will ban all such games from being made. However, who should really be looking out for the kid? The parent who should see what their kid brought home and kick their asses for doing so.

I'm a selfish arrogant a-hole of adult who doesn't give a crap about your little pissed faced bastard spawn of satan. If I see your little bastard is in a burning building I might risk my neck to save their worstless life but I'm not gonna give up my fun cause you don't want to watch your waste of DNA.

Merry X mas!!!!

[DeathHammer]

Please Delete Thanks

Edited February 8, 2010 by DeathHammer

[Gabe Q]

All I know is that more rules never solve anything. More laws simply make more criminals... sometimes they make criminals out of people who have done nothing wrong. What we need to do is go back to parenting rather than letting the world parent for us... and we also need to let our kids experience more rather than reigning them in, controling them and what they are exposed to. Knowledge de-mystifies things... cold hard facts take the allure away. Let kids see the bad... then perhaps they will appreciate the good.

335148[/snapback]

Excellent post. I read it twice. "More laws make more criminals", that pretty much sums up the state of affairs we're in concerning government.

[Project Phoenix]

This thread r0xr! Except I see it as another vehicle for MGTroll to peddle and shove his ideals and twisted reasoning to other members and call it his "opinions".

You will notice he:

1) Opens a controversial thread.

2) Ask for "opinions"(which MWers really do give honest inputs here).

3) Then proceeds to shove his crap down to whomever unfortunate enough to cross his path.

MGREXX, get a life and quit being a Communist bastard.

Edited October 8, 2005 by Project Phoenix

[EXO]

Oh my god.  I forgot that you are one of those metrosexulas, huh EXOidiot?

Don't touch your kids, just expalin it to them and help them see the way.  DO not yell at them but make them understand the error of their ways.  Put them high on a pedistal and tell them that they will be loved by all as long as they get in touch with their inner feelings and love everybody.    

The real world does not work like that unless you want to raise a kid with issues and false hopes of the real world.  You talk to them and expalin things to them but corporal punishment IS A MUST 5% of the time.  I have laid my hands on my son 4 times since he was born and he is almost 5.  I have a 14 month old and have slapped his hand once.  Verbal scloding only goes so far but a good spanking and hand slapping will go even further because physical punishment reinforces how important your message is that you are trying to get across, unlesss you use it as a means all of the time, then you are just wrong.  I say use the hand here and there on those rare and special occassions where it is necessary.....as long as you can control yourself and don't make it a habbit.  If you hit them too hard, too much or even leave a bruise, then you are going too far.

It's just like when I went thru Basic training (1989).  The Drill sergeants could push us, shove us, get in our faces and even "smoke" us until we nearly passed out.  Right when I was getting ready to get out in 1993, the newbies that came in would tell us that they could not be touched, yelled at them up close or "smoke" them.  What kind of $hit was that.  I thank Bill Clinton for that one....damn liberals.

What I am trying to say is that physical punishment is a necessary component of raising a child into a mature and responsible adult.  Treat them like royalty all of the time and you get messed up people like Exoidiot and AgentDumb.  

335149[/snapback]

CHILDBEATER!

lol... trying to make that EXOidiot and Agentdumb thing catch? haha... not as catchy as MCOCK and MGTROLL.

Besides, passing the balme towards politicians for your inability to straighten out your kids at the expense of people's freedom to choose is one way to show how much of a pussy your are.

Damn... CHILDBEATER...

Edited October 8, 2005 by >EXO<

[buddhafabio]

Oh my god.  I forgot that you are one of those metrosexulas, huh EXOidiot?

Don't touch your kids, just expalin it to them and help them see the way.  DO not yell at them but make them understand the error of their ways.  Put them high on a pedistal and tell them that they will be loved by all as long as they get in touch with their inner feelings and love everybody.    

The real world does not work like that unless you want to raise a kid with issues and false hopes of the real world.  You talk to them and expalin things to them but corporal punishment IS A MUST 5% of the time.  I have laid my hands on my son 4 times since he was born and he is almost 5.  I have a 14 month old and have slapped his hand once.  Verbal scloding only goes so far but a good spanking and hand slapping will go even further because physical punishment reinforces how important your message is that you are trying to get across, unlesss you use it as a means all of the time, then you are just wrong.  I say use the hand here and there on those rare and special occassions where it is necessary.....as long as you can control yourself and don't make it a habbit.  If you hit them too hard, too much or even leave a bruise, then you are going too far.

It's just like when I went thru Basic training (1989).  The Drill sergeants could push us, shove us, get in our faces and even "smoke" us until we nearly passed out.  Right when I was getting ready to get out in 1993, the newbies that came in would tell us that they could not be touched, yelled at them up close or "smoke" them.  What kind of $hit was that.  I thank Bill Clinton for that one....damn liberals.

What I am trying to say is that physical punishment is a necessary component of raising a child into a mature and responsible adult.  Treat them like royalty all of the time and you get messed up people like Exoidiot and AgentDumb.  

335149[/snapback]

CHILDBEATER!

lol... trying to make that EXOidiot and Agentdumb thing catch? haha... not as catchy as MCOCK and MGTROLL.

Besides, passing the balme towards politicians for your inability to straighten out your kids at the expense of people's freedom to choose is one way to show how much of a pussy your are.

Damn... CHILDBEATER...

335173[/snapback]

what about a good swat on the butt. the kind that is not done in anger but is done out of punishment. but you are correct a swat on a BABYS hand is abuse most experts say corporal punishment shouldnt begin til 2-3 years old. some practitioners od corporal punishment take it too far. but back on subject.

but any way the whole mantality of preventing kids from playing with violent videogames is a hard one to combat. first you gots to educate the idiot parents to what the game consists of. not the GOOD parents , the idiot ones that dont care.

then the parent has to besure lil johnny dont run to his friends house to play it because his parents let him get the game. it takes Good parenting to keep kids from games that they shouldnt be playing. legslation in the gaming industry will just mean it would be like the gun industry. all the criminals have all the cool guns and the average home owner has a peeshooter.

oh and taking away fake toy gunns from kids wont help they have imaginations and a stick would be an decent substitute to a toy gun taken away.

Edited October 8, 2005 by buddhafabio

[Father Jack]

Opinion Piece:

Parents are just afraid to say "no" to their little brats and want others to look out for them.

Where I live people are concerned about people driving fast near homes and schools.  There are so many traffic signs it's confusing.  When ever some people talk about fixing the confusing traffic rules some parent group or another step forward and scream "Won't some body think of the childern?"

Won't some body think about us adults  who think it's retarded to drive this way?  No I don't want to run over someone's kid but there would be nothing to worry about if a parent just watched the little bastards.  Yes people are morons who will let there kids play out in the middle of the street.  Instead of doing their job and watching their kids they expect society to watch out for them.

Same thing goes for the kids form of entertainment.    Hasn't nearly every game or movie that some parents flip have out about been clearly marked as not for kids?  Ratings or not titles and subject matter gives you a pretty good clue of what's for kids.  I've been in a video store once and saw a kid pick up a MA rated game.  I've pointed out I think that's too old for you.  Then saw the clerks sale the kid the game.  You can say lets make a law so the clerk won't sale the game or a law that will ban all such games from being made.  However, who should really be looking out for the kid?  The parent who should see what their kid brought home and kick their asses for doing so.

I'm a selfish arrogant a-hole of adult who doesn't give a crap about your little pissed faced bastard spawn of satan.  If I see your little bastard is in a burning building I might risk my neck to save their worstless life but I'm not gonna give up my fun cause you don't want to watch your waste of DNA.

Merry X mas!!!!

335162[/snapback]

seconded.

[DeathHammer]

Please Delete Thanks

Edited February 8, 2010 by DeathHammer

[MGREXX]

Oh my god.  I forgot that you are one of those metrosexulas, huh EXOidiot?

Don't touch your kids, just expalin it to them and help them see the way.  DO not yell at them but make them understand the error of their ways.  Put them high on a pedistal and tell them that they will be loved by all as long as they get in touch with their inner feelings and love everybody.    

The real world does not work like that unless you want to raise a kid with issues and false hopes of the real world.  You talk to them and expalin things to them but corporal punishment IS A MUST 5% of the time.  I have laid my hands on my son 4 times since he was born and he is almost 5.  I have a 14 month old and have slapped his hand once.  Verbal scloding only goes so far but a good spanking and hand slapping will go even further because physical punishment reinforces how important your message is that you are trying to get across, unlesss you use it as a means all of the time, then you are just wrong.  I say use the hand here and there on those rare and special occassions where it is necessary.....as long as you can control yourself and don't make it a habbit.  If you hit them too hard, too much or even leave a bruise, then you are going too far.

It's just like when I went thru Basic training (1989).  The Drill sergeants could push us, shove us, get in our faces and even "smoke" us until we nearly passed out.  Right when I was getting ready to get out in 1993, the newbies that came in would tell us that they could not be touched, yelled at them up close or "smoke" them.  What kind of $hit was that.  I thank Bill Clinton for that one....damn liberals.

What I am trying to say is that physical punishment is a necessary component of raising a child into a mature and responsible adult.  Treat them like royalty all of the time and you get messed up people like Exoidiot and AgentDumb.  

335149[/snapback]

CHILDBEATER!

lol... trying to make that EXOidiot and Agentdumb thing catch? haha... not as catchy as MCOCK and MGTROLL.

Besides, passing the balme towards politicians for your inability to straighten out your kids at the expense of people's freedom to choose is one way to show how much of a pussy your are.

Damn... CHILDBEATER...

335173[/snapback]

You are so clueless that you don't even know what you are saying.

I feel sorry for you.....you Metrosexual.

SEE, YOU SHOULD HAVE FINISHED HIGH SCHOOL!!!!

[Wes]

You are so clueless that you don't even know what you are saying.

That explains just about all of what you say on this board.

I blame the Cyclon-controled media for blowing the "brainwashing" thing out of proportion. They keep hyping the image that kids are care packages, not people, and they need to be protected by Big Brother based on their discretion whether they are right or retarded. It's like Dennis Leery put it, "Children are like all other social classes of people: a couple of winners, loooot of loosers."

The whole point behind corporal punishment is that it enforces the fact that pain and shame often follow really bad actions. It's pretty easy for a small fry to add that up, whereas in real life it isn't always so clear. If a kid wants to play the "Abuse Card"? Fine, s/he can be reminded of all the grief and embarrassment it takes to validate the claim, the horrible conditions of the foster care system, and the stain as a freaking liar on their record if they ever have a legitimate greavance.

So who's responsible for the kid? The community, of course, the whole "village to raise a kid" deal. If s/he's your kid, correct it. If not and you see it, suggest it. If they want to bitch, let them be an idiot. But when they screw up, they need to pay the price.

I leave with another comedian quote I forget who he was: "Man, kids aren't imitating video games - look at Mario. You don't see kids, jumping on their friends to turn them into pancakes, punching bricks just to get spare change. 'KILL MAIM DESTROY!' ...Satan? 'No, it's a-me, MARIO!'"

[areaseven]

You are so clueless that you don't even know what you are saying.

I feel sorry for you.....you Metrosexual.

SEE, YOU SHOULD HAVE FINISHED HIGH SCHOOL!!!!

335263[/snapback]