Stardust Memory ending

[mikeszekely]

DUE TO THE NATURE OF THIS TOPIC, THE WHOLE THING WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS. IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM 0083 STARDUST MEMORY, AND YOU THINK YOU MIGHT, STOP READING!

Okay, that said, I just finished watching Stardust Memory again. The first time I watched it, it was only the second Gundam series I'd ever seen, and I had no idea what was going on. Now, I'm trying to watch all the Gundam series by chronological order according to their story, not their release, so I've finished watching first Gundam, The 08th MS Team, War in the Pocket, and lastly Stardust Memory. The whole story makes a lot more sense to me now, but I still have some questions:

I haven't watched Zeta yet, but do they mention the colony drop from 0083?

In the last episode, Gato adjusts the colony's course and reveals that their intended target wasn't Jaburo. Later, after it's all over, the admiral is giving a speech about creating the Titans, he says something about it falling on a grain farm in North America. Why was the Delaz fleet more interested in attacking a farm than the Federation HQ?

At the very very end, Kou goes to visit a farm, where he runs into Keith, Mora, and Nina. There's a big hunk of junk in the middle that might have been from the colony. Was that supposed to the farm? I thought colony drops were supposed to be more destructive (in the first episode, when the Albion is flying to Australia, they point out that the bay they were flying over was where Sydney used to be, and that it was now the largest man-made hole on the planet)?

[bob joe mac]

NOTHING from 0083 is mentioned in Z (Well cept that the titans were made)

Why they switched the destiantion I have no idea

I don't think that area was where the colony fell i think it was another testing grounds for stuff.

BTW- Remember 0083 came out after Z so there are going to be MASS plotholes.

[bob joe mac]

Well While we are on the topic of Gundam endings

Semi- Spoilers

What happened to Gym at the end of Turn A gundam? I mean I just finished it for a 2nd run now but Was he somehow killed by the moonlight butterfly when engulfed? I mean you see it destroy technology and a villiage but I though all it was, was a bunch of nanomachines that were released and destroyed tech. So where did Gym go? Besides that I think Turn A has by far the most epic ending out of any series ever.

[Abombz!!]

Now you know why some Gundam fans consider 0083 to be one of the worst Gundam show to date.

The OVA has massive plotholes, such as the target of the colony drop, the over powered MSs, the fact that Gato and Nina suddenly became love interests.

To be honest.... don't take the fact in 0083 too seriously. Simply enjoy it for its suberb animation, and ignore most of the story.

At the very very end, Kou goes to visit a farm, where he runs into Keith, Mora, and Nina. There's a big hunk of junk in the middle that might have been from the colony. Was that supposed to the farm? I thought colony drops were supposed to be more destructive (in the first episode, when the Albion is flying to Australia, they point out that the bay they were flying over was where Sydney used to be, and that it was now the largest man-made hole on the planet)?

It could have been the effect of the Solar System super weapon used to stop the colony. There was heavy structural damage. But then again.... the colony that hit Sidney had been blown to piece by the Federation as it passed through reentry.... and still managed to turn Sidney into a huge lagoon.

[Abombz!!]

While we are in the topic of Gundams.... 0083 in particular... who was the white haired guy who walked into the Alexandria class carrier in the end of the OVA?

I know Capt. Sinapse was executed.... so it couldn't have been him.

[Solscud007]

Ok the Colony was supposed to be dropped on Jaburo, Feddie HQ. however dont forget that the Solar mioor laser thingy greatly impacted the colony's trajectory and speed. If that thing had been focused properly it would have destroyed teh colony. However it was not ready in time so only a fraction of its potentional was used. Imagine a bullet slowed down, kinda like a rubber bullet. it does not have the same destructive capabilites however if your running and a cop shoots you with it I dont think you will get to where you want to go. That is why, I think the colony dropped on a farm. They arent that dumb.

[UN Spacy]

Now you know why some Gundam fans consider 0083 to be one of the worst Gundam show to date.

Really? Maybe it's because I've only seen a coupe of Gundam movies (Char's Counterattack, Stardust Memories, and F91), but 0083 is one of my favorite Gundam movies of all time. I pretty much fell in love with the movie (that's what confuses me.....was 0083 a series or movie.....where did Stardust Memories come from?) when I saw the Dendrobium fight the Neu Ziel.

The mecha was actually the saving grace of the series...... B)

[McKlown]

Okay, Geography lesson time.

All along the middile of the US is what's called the Grain(or wheat) Belt. It's a huge area of farms and such that produces a large percentage of our food.

That is what Gato hoped to destroy with the colony drop, not just a single farm. Though I got the impression that it didn't work too well and much of the area was still usable afterwards.

[Dangard Ace]

Hitting Jaburo would've been an overt move. Hitting the "breadbasket" cripples the army. If you can't feed an army you don't have an army, nevermind the economic repercussions in food prices, psychological trauma, civilian target......etc.

Oh yeah, the farm shot in the last scene is of the ONT/UNT- North American base/farm.

[Abombz!!]

Now you know why some Gundam fans consider 0083 to be one of the worst Gundam show to date.

Really? Maybe it's because I've only seen a coupe of Gundam movies (Char's Counterattack, Stardust Memories, and F91), but 0083 is one of my favorite Gundam movies of all time. I pretty much fell in love with the movie (that's what confuses me.....was 0083 a series or movie.....where did Stardust Memories come from?) when I saw the Dendrobium fight the Neu Ziel.

The mecha was actually the saving grace of the series...... B)

Yep. Its because you haven't been tainted by continuity that you like 0083. B)

[fulcy]

The OVA has massive plotholes, such as the target of the colony drop, the over powered MSs, the fact that Gato and Nina suddenly became love interests.

Gato and Nina didn't suddenly become love interests - they apparently had a relationship before 0083, and that is why Nina is so torn whenever Kou goes out to fight with Gato - her former love interest, whom she obviously still has feelings for, and the person she is now interested in are going out trying to kill each other. At least to me, it was pretty clear that this was the case...

[Abombz!!]

The OVA has massive plotholes, such as the target of the colony drop, the over powered MSs, the fact that Gato and Nina suddenly became love interests.

Gato and Nina didn't suddenly become love interests - they apparently had a relationship before 0083, and that is why Nina is so torn whenever Kou goes out to fight with Gato - her former love interest, whom she obviously still has feelings for, and the person she is now interested in are going out trying to kill each other. At least to me, it was pretty clear that this was the case...

I didn't mean it that way. I meant it... that in the story there was no proof that Gato and Nina had a thing. When Gato hijacked the GP02 Nina clearly saw him, and yet nothing "clicked".

And besides... they weren't supposed to have a thing. They did simply because half way through the series, the production crew changed slightly.

[Sarensaas]

Now you know why some Gundam fans consider 0083 to be one of the worst Gundam show to date.

Well, I don't know why these fans are buying so many 0083 models then. OO83 is a cash cow for Bandai; for one of the worst gundam shows to date, thats pretty impressive.

0083 was released around the time of F91, and it was expected F91 was going to be the big Gundam story everyone was going to talk about...heh heh.

[estacado06479]

The OVA has massive plotholes, such as the target of the colony drop, the over powered MSs, the fact that Gato and Nina suddenly became love interests.

Gato and Nina didn't suddenly become love interests - they apparently had a relationship before 0083, and that is why Nina is so torn whenever Kou goes out to fight with Gato - her former love interest, whom she obviously still has feelings for, and the person she is now interested in are going out trying to kill each other. At least to me, it was pretty clear that this was the case...

hehe, i'm glad someone else remembered, i hat being the only one.

also, i have to watch it again, but i seem to remember the same way fulcy does, that they were love interests when anaheim was training gato and his men on the suits they built...

isnt she almost taken off the project in favor of that other one because it was happening again with kou?

[Abombz!!]

Now you know why some Gundam fans consider 0083 to be one of the worst Gundam show to date.

Well, I don't know why these fans are buying so many 0083 models then. OO83 is a cash cow for Bandai; for one of the worst gundam shows to date, thats pretty impressive.

0083 was released around the time of F91, and it was expected F91 was going to be the big Gundam story everyone was going to talk about...heh heh.

Bad shows don't necesseraly have to have bad mecha. As for it being a cash cow.... I don't see where you get that idea. I haven't seen an abundance of 0083 mecha.

And you are wrong. Last Blitz of Zeon (the compilation movie, which makes the OVA even worst) was release along side F91, not the OVA.

Bandai just made a PG GP01... because its a good design.

Edited September 27, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Abombz!!]

The OVA has massive plotholes, such as the target of the colony drop, the over powered MSs, the fact that Gato and Nina suddenly became love interests.

Gato and Nina didn't suddenly become love interests - they apparently had a relationship before 0083, and that is why Nina is so torn whenever Kou goes out to fight with Gato - her former love interest, whom she obviously still has feelings for, and the person she is now interested in are going out trying to kill each other. At least to me, it was pretty clear that this was the case...

hehe, i'm glad someone else remembered, i hat being the only one.

also, i have to watch it again, but i seem to remember the same way fulcy does, that they were love interests when anaheim was training gato and his men on the suits they built...

isnt she almost taken off the project in favor of that other one because it was happening again with kou?

They were suddenly lovers. They explained the whol back ground thing. But why didn't the sight of Gato suddenly bring back flashback of when she was with him? Not only did she see him.... she also heard his name over and over again. The moment she started wishing for Kou not to fight Gato was way too sudden.

Usually.... when 2 anime characters have some sort of love connection like that.... seeing each other after a long time, usually trigger some sort of response on one of them... neither Gato nor Nina had that kind of responce untill later on in the OVA. And if they were so lovey dovey like they made them to be.... the reaction would've been much more obvious. <_<

Usually... if 2 characters are to be lovers.... you don't simply drop all the info on the viewers after having made the 2 characters meet. If they are really lovers.... the first time they meet, there will be some indication of that.

Edited September 27, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Phyrox]

You can have one of the worst Gundam shows and still sell lots of kits. The two are not really related.

I bought 0083 kits before I even saw the show. Then I saw it, didn't like it, but bought more.

Sure the mecha are cool, but the show itself can still suck.

Look at Gundam Sentinel. Hardly anyone in the states knows the full story (just short summaries, etc), but they eat up Sentinel kits/toys.

[Lynx7725]

I'll try to explain some things based on what I knew when I was still on the GML.

1. With regards to Sydney, the hole there was the result from about one of three parts of the original colony cylinder.. the remainder either burnt up in reentry or broke up during the travel through earth's atmosphere.

2. Impact of a colony varies a bit due to impact angle, velocity, etc. etc. But generally the 0083 colony drop was viewed by the Gundam community as one big plothole, as Zeta never showed that big crater where it should have impacted.

It is within the realm of possibility that the colony did an air-burst which could possibly have similar effect on the crop production, but let's just leave it as "gaping plot hole"..

3. As others mentioned, it was the food production region that was hit, not just one farm.. using a 80KM diameter cylinder to hit a farm is like using a howitzer to kill a fly.

The resultant fallout from such an impact undoubtedly ruined much of the food production in North America, hence increasing Earth's dependencies on the Colonies for food -- as well as the EFSF's paranoia regarding Spacenoids. This sets the stage for the introduction of the Titans and the events in Zeta.

4. There is some speculation that Stardust was either covertedly organized or at least supported by the pre-Titans Federation Earth-supremists. Jamitov's presence during this operation is probably not a coincidence, but that's speculative and has no real proof to back this.

Chances are good that the Earth-supremists learnt of the operation, but decided to turn it around to their advantages and magnify the Delaz threat into something more suitable for power grabbing.

This however does dovetails nicely with the food destruction angle. Destroying Jaburo won't achieve much in 0083 -- the EFSF just won the OYW, is well garrisoned in most colonies (probable) and has experienced officers who can easily replace the Jaburo high command. Things would be rough but it is likely that any revolts can be rapidly crushed by EFSF, which even with the disaster at the Naval Review should be able to deliver overwhelming forces to trouble spots.

(It's only been three years since the end of OYW. Combat strengths of EFSF units should have been rebuilt -- with rank amateurs like Kou and Keith -- but at the same time disarmament would have been progressing too.)

Destroy food production, however, would increase dependencies on the colonies, which increases tension between EFSF and the colonies -- the EFSF don't trust the colonies, but they need the colonies to feed them. Increased paranoia would add to this and probably would lead to eventual war.

The Titans simply took the situation and rose to power this way.

5. The testing grounds which Kou went to is in North America (Likely place was, IIRC, found to be somewhere in the US) and the grain he picked up is reputedly diseased/ weak and could have been to show that the area is badly affected by the colony drop. FYI, the Gelgoog which Keith was piloting appears to be a captured Gelgoog Marine from Cima's unit.

6. As pointed out, Synapse was executed. No one knows who the new Albion Captain is.

7. The direction twist in 0083 made Nina and Gato ex-lovers. I personally don't think that the original intent was for that to happen, but it was written in later -- don't forget Kelly, the one-armed Wal Waldo pilot, knows Nina.

There was some (IMO unconvincing) explanations for why Nina didn't recognize Gato in the hijiacking, but I won't bother to repeat them here.

Any more questions?

[Abombz!!]

I was under the impression that the Federation didn't care much for Jaburo because it was already planned to move the central HQ to Tibet.

1. With regards to Sydney, the hole there was the result from about one of three parts of the original colony cylinder.. the remainder either burnt up in reentry or broke up during the travel through earth's atmosphere.

That would mean that this colony suffered substancial damage so that most of its structure was pulverized in reentry. Thats why we don't see much damage to the landscape. But the funny thing is.... we do see the effect of a full colony drop. In ZZ a colony drops, successfully on a city in Europe... and the damage was not nearly as "dramatic" as what happened to Sidney.

6. As pointed out, Synapse was executed. No one knows who the new Albion Captain is.

Then why show him? He must be a character of fair importance for him to be shown in such "dramatic" way.

[Lynx7725]

I was under the impression that the Federation didn't care much for Jaburo because it was already planned to move the central HQ to Tibet.

Planned is one thing, but the psychological impact of having a colony-sized lawn dart striking your HQ is still going to be hefty. Sort of the way Yamamoto felt about the Doolittle raid on Tokyo:

One has the embarassing feeling of having been caught napping.

That would mean that this colony suffered substancial damage so that most of its structure was pulverized in reentry. Thats why we don't see much damage to the landscape. But the funny thing is.... we do see the effect of a full colony drop. In ZZ a colony drops, successfully on a city in Europe... and the damage was not nearly as "dramatic" as what happened to Sidney.

I have not watched ZZ, but if you are referring to the Dublin Lawn Dart, I have to quote "NewType Powers" back to you.

Yes, the original "Sydney" cylinder did take substantial damage, some of which are battle damage IF I recall correctly.. the EFSF wasn't THAT idle. But they screwed up and it caused quite a bit of collateral damage.

6. As pointed out, Synapse was executed. No one knows who the new Albion Captain is.

Then why show him? He must be a character of fair importance for him to be shown in such "dramatic" way.

Closure, really. I think it's meant to show us the fate of the rest of the crew. We know Kou, Keith and Nina are happily at the American base; Synapse is six-feet under, but we won't know what happen to the leecher Monsha et. al. if it wasn't for that clip.

[Abombz!!]

have not watched ZZ, but if you are referring to the Dublin Lawn Dart, I have to quote "NewType Powers" back to you.

Yes, the original "Sydney" cylinder did take substantial damage, some of which are battle damage IF I recall correctly.. the EFSF wasn't THAT idle. But they screwed up and it caused quite a bit of collateral damage.

LOL. All that happen... was that the cilinder just stood there for a while.

Seriously.... it was like a 4 mile high building smack dab where the city used to be.

I don't remember if it exploded or not after wards.... but i'm inclined to say yes.

Closure, really. I think it's meant to show us the fate of the rest of the crew. We know Kou, Keith and Nina are happily at the American base; Synapse is six-feet under, but we won't know what happen to the leecher Monsha et. al. if it wasn't for that clip.

But stil!! Why not show the suckers face?

[ArchVile]

Lets say that the captian was the captian of the Dogth Gear at the end of Zeta Gundam.

Also I dislike the huge amounts of plot holes in 0083, you'd think they'd mention something about a colony drop as they fly over the midwest in Zeta Gundam.

[VF-19]

Lets say that the captian was the captian of the Dogth Gear at the end of Zeta Gundam.

Also I dislike the huge amounts of plot holes in 0083, you'd think they'd mention something about a colony drop as they fly over the midwest in Zeta Gundam.

You have to remember that 0083 was written after Zeta... Thus the time line can be messed up pretty badly...

As for Nina not recognizing Gato when he initially stole the GP-02a, my theory is that she did recognize him and she didn't react because it was a shocking incident for her (perhaps she thought he was dead). Just a theory.

But I personally liked 0083. The story wasn't too bad, and the action was great.

Edit: Also, the lack of mentioning a crater may be due to the possible rebuilding that the Feddies did in the Farm belt. They may have flattened the land (somehow), and started rebuilding. Remember, Zeta takes place in about 0087 (or so... Memory's a bit fuzzy), and 0083 takes place in... 0083. But still 4 years or so is a bit short of time to rebuild an entire section of a continent...

Edited September 27, 2003 by VF-19

[GobotFool]

Hmmmmm its been a while since I have seen 0083, when does synapse get exicuted? I remember the zeon admiral getting his brains blown out by the green haired chick when did synapse buy the farm?

[mikeszekely]

0083 may have had it's plot issues, but c'mon, no series did more to wreck continuity than the 08th MS Team. I mean, wasn't the whole point of the original Gundam series that the Gundam was the only one of its kind? In 0080, you can kind of explain Alex as being that it was so late in the war, and it was just a test bed for new technology... but in the 08th MS Team we have a whole unit piloting Gundams!

Yeah, my biggest issue with 0083 was really what they were really targeting.

[mikeszekely]

2. Impact of a colony varies a bit due to impact angle, velocity, etc. etc. But generally the 0083 colony drop was viewed by the Gundam community as one big plothole, as Zeta never showed that big crater where it should have impacted.

But as I learned when studying different meteor impacts on the Earth and Moon, a shallow angel impact often does more damage than a head on impact. As for velocity, that would indeed make a difference... but we really don't have any info on how fast either of the colonies were falling.

I think plot hole makes the most sense. I can overlook it, though.

OT: Anyone catch the newspaper Al was reading at the end of 0080? The banner says "UN Spacy." Is that because Mikimoto was on the staff, like a nod to Macross?

[Abombz!!]

Hmmmmm its been a while since I have seen 0083, when does synapse get exicuted? I remember the zeon admiral getting his brains blown out by the green haired chick when did synapse buy the farm?

We don't see him getting executed. We only hear the fact.

[Mechwolf]

Abombz!! Posted on Sep 27 2003, 06:26 PM

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QUOTE (GobotFool @ Sep 27 2003, 08:36 PM)

Hmmmmm its been a while since I have seen 0083, when does synapse get exicuted? I remember the zeon admiral getting his brains blown out by the green haired chick when did synapse buy the farm? 

We don't see him getting executed. We only hear the fact.

In my copy of 0083 released by AnimeVillage(Bandai), thay don't mention his execution. They only mention Kou's sentence & the deletion of the GP development project. However, according to the 0083 comic adaption from VIZ, he was executed.

[GobotFool]

hmmmm no chance it was just bad translation?

[Abombz!!]

Odd. I don't remember where I heard he was executed. I think it was his own comment towards the end of the OVA, something in the lines of him being sure he was going to be executed for treason or something.

[Lightning]

You can have one of the worst Gundam shows and still sell lots of kits. The two are not really related.

I bought 0083 kits before I even saw the show. Then I saw it, didn't like it, but bought more.

Sure the mecha are cool, but the show itself can still suck.

Look at Gundam Sentinel. Hardly anyone in the states knows the full story (just short summaries, etc), but they eat up Sentinel kits/toys.

or relate it to Gundam Wing for that matter...

[Mislovrit]

but in the 08th MS Team we have a whole unit piloting Gundams!

Forgot to mentioned the entire unit never lost any men ala godmode. Shiro(SP) doesn't count as he was still alive and well when the series ended. Not mention Gundam Wing's transplanted pacifism interfering with the story.

[GobotFool]

you know, its no fair synapse gets exicuted and Mancha lives <_< If I were the captain of a ship he was on based on his accumilated miscunduct I would have had him stripped of his rank, and exicuted.

[Anubis]

Synapse's execution was in the DVD insert's timeline. I didn't catch in the show where it was mentioned, but he might have implied what was coming for him before the end fight. I've only sat through the show once so far.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

but in the 08th MS Team we have a whole unit piloting Gundams!

Forgot to mentioned the entire unit never lost any men ala godmode. Shiro(SP) doesn't count as he was still alive and well when the series ended. Not mention Gundam Wing's transplanted pacifism interfering with the story.

08th was the best Gundam so far IMO. yeah, they all had gundams. yeah, they didn't lose anyone. but it was WAY better than the foolishness that is 0083 and CCA.

Also, isn't Burning wearing a suit that says UN Spacy?