Science Fiction Epics

[Max Jenius]

Personally I think Dune is the greatest Sci-Fi saga ever. Having read the original 6 books I'm just amazed at them. Its like Herbert traveled into the future and wrote everything down. He had an interesting take on economics and statecraft which holds true today especially considering his oil analogy and everything surrounding that resource.

[chrono]

SF epic-wise for me will aways be Asimov's "Foundation" series(sans the iffy last 3 works) which covers ALOT of his works under one umbrella.

Tony Daniel is coming up with some good work, but it's not quite 'epic' yet.

[Gui]

Dan Simmons' Hyperion and its sequel is definitely one of my all-time favorite

Iain M. Banks' Culture cycle (Consider Phlebas, Man of the Games, The Use of Weapons, Excession,...) is very good aswell but 'unbalanced' from one story to the other IMO

Fred Saberhagen's Berserkers is pure ownage material to me

Carolyn J. Cherryh also has some good things in the Chanur series but I really prefer the Alliance-Union universe, particularly Downbellow Station, Cyteen, Hunter of Worlds and Serpent's Reach

Oh, and Anne McCaffrey's Pern world is an enchantment, but I really love The Ship who Sang too

There's so much more: I just don't remember all of them...

[JELEINEN]

Honestly, I think SF works best in its original short story format. There are novels I like, but give me a good anthology any day.

[eugimon]

My favorite would by Kim Stanely Robinson's California Trilogy... then the Dune books...

I really liked the Pern books when I was a kid as well.. not so much now.

[Agent ONE]

Terminator, but the 6 Star Wars movies are in a close second.

[Mr March]

Frank Herbert's Dune books along with Isaac Asimov's Foundation series are probably the best examples of what one would term greatest science fiction epics in literature. Not only do these works embody the very definition of a grand epic in scope, but they each deal with numerous issues affecting large scale civilizations such as commerce, law, ideology, enviromentalism, politics, territory, resources, and many other incredibly significant aspects of human civilizations. Naturally, it goes without saying that these sagas were each researched thoroughly and written by two of science fiction's most prodigious talents.

In cinema, there can be little arguement that Star Wars is the medium's greatest epic science fiction work. It is regretable that this saga maintains its place, if for no other reason than a lack of other significant attempts in the science fiction genre to create large, continuous stories across six films. Franchises like Alien, The Matrix, and the Terminator have each attempted to create grander stories with limited success, mostly due to lack of a single, unified vision. Even the Star Wars films, which rate in quality form excellent to poor, maintain the greatest mantle only because there is no competeing contemporary.

The works of Larry Niven's Ringworld books and Iain M. Banks Culture novels each represent numerous aspects of great epic writting in the science fiction genre. If a cohesive, singular vision and plot format were expressed more strongly in the multiple books of each respective franchise, these would most certainly qualify as powerful competitors in epic, grand vein of stories in sci-fi literature.

Edited September 17, 2005 by Mr March

[chrono]

That's very true about the Ringworld and Culture universes, Mr March. The same could be said for Jack McDevitt's, William H. Keith's, James Alan Gardner , and Stephen Baxter's universes.

David Brin's Uplift universe has Epic like quality's as does Ben Bova's Grand Tour universe, but are just slightly lacking in some creative depth.

[the white drew carey]

Let's not forget that The Foundation series is actually part of a larger story arc that, in essence, begins with his Robot short stories and ends with Foundation and Earth.

In chronological order within the story line:

The Complete Robot (short story collection)

The Robots Series (during the preliminary colonization of space)

The Caves of Steel

The Naked Sun

The Robots of Dawn

Robots and Empire

The Empire Series (events during the height of the Galactic Empire)

The Currents of Space

The Stars, Like Dust

Pebble in the Sky

The Foundation Series (set in the decline of the Galactic Empire)

Prelude to Foundation

Forward the Foundation

(The Foundation Trilogy)

Foundation

Foundation and Empire

Second Foundation

Foundation's Edge

Foundation and Earth

There are also several short stories which may or may not be considered part of the complete story arc, but this distinction lies wholly within the reader's preference. Other authors have also added to the series with their own works after Asimov's death. This is pretty much sacrilege in the same vein as Herbert's son writing some pretty terrible Dune novels.

Some people suggest that one should actually read the series in the order they were published, keeping in mind that the Foundation and Robot series were originally not meant to be contained within the same world, and therefore present some tricky plot inconsistencies that one has to deal with

Edited September 17, 2005 by the white drew carey

[the white drew carey]

Other series I thoroughly enjoy, but are more fantasy than Sci-Fi are:

Memory, Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams- The Dragonbone Chair, Stone of Farewell and To Green Angel Tower. The short story The Burning Man adds a bit to the series, but is not considered essential reading. This is my favorite series of books to read in one big go, and is possibly my favorite fantasy series of all time.

A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin- A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords. Forthcoming are A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons with two more unnamed books planned in the series. Two Novellas- The Hedge Knight and The Sworn Sword are set in the same world, about 100 years before the events of A Song of Ice and Fire. While not required reading, they do add a bit of insight in the world of Westeros. I was recently turned on to this series and am now hooked. Somehow, this author crams a lot of story and character development into a a single book. Another perk is how Martin does not pull any punches when describing the visciousness and shear violence of battle, and character's actions.

The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan- New Spring (this is the first novel in a planned prequel trilogy, and is a further elaboration of the short story of the same name. Robert Jordan has decided to forego the other two prequels until he gets around to actually finishing the main series), The Eye of the World. The Great Hunt, The Dragon Reborn, The Shadow Rising, The Fires of Heaven, Lord of Chaos, A Crown of Swords, The Path of Daggers, Winter's Heart, Crossroads of Twilight and the soon to be released Knife of Dreams. The twelth and supposedly last book in the series is yet to be named. As with most fans of the series, I have a love/hate relationship with WOT. On one hand, it is a fun series to read, and you can really get hooked on the characters. On the other hand, one wishes Jordan would just get it over with!

And, lastly, my favorite, loosely connected, series of all:

The Discworld Series by Terry Pratchett. To name all of the books would be folly, but I think they are some of the best books ever written (to the point where the stylized letter "O" with the small lightening bolt ending in a tiny spark in the middle is going to be my next tattoo). The series itself is broken up into stand alone novels as well as little sub-series which, oft-times, will also overlap, such as The Witches, Samuel Vimes and The City Watch, Rincewind the Wizzard, Death, Susan- Death's Granddaughter, The Wizards of Unseen University and most recently Tiffany Aching and the Wee Free Men.

Other notable series are The PERN Novels by Anne McCaffery and The Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind.

[JELEINEN]

Pern is SF disguised as fantasy.

A definition of epic would be helpful here. Does the OP mean long or mythic?

Here's some things I enjoy (I'll go with long rather than mythic):

Cordwainer Smith's Instrumentality of Man (which is one of the few to qualify for the mythic meaning)

Jerry Pournelle's Codomenium (including Mote in God's Eye with Niven)

Larry Niven's Known Space

Verner Vinge's "Deep" stories

H. Beam Piper's Paratime

E. E. "Doc" Smith's Lensmen

James Blish' Cities in Flight

[Mechwarrior]

Well, I would have to say the Star Wars saga. It has kept me entertained for over 20 years, can't think of anything else that has had such a an impact really. Star Trek was close though.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

Without a doubt, Dune. Frank Herbert weaves an intricate story of Religion, Politics, Economics, love, hate, betrayal, hope, victory and defeat in his 6 book epic. honestly, any of these books are good enough to be classics, but together, they are some of the best BOOKS to ever come out, not just in the Sci-Fi genre. Dune gets my vote....at least thats what my honored matre imprinter told me to say...

[Graham]

OK, if we're just talking epic sci-fi books (not movies), my choice is: -

Iain M. Bank's Culture novels.

Harry Turtledove's Worldwar & Colonization series.

David Wingrove's Chung Kuo books.

Ian Douglas's Heritage Trilogy

Pattrick Tilley's Amtrack Wars.

John Ringo's Posleen War books.

Frank Herberts Dune series. (none of the books written by others after his death though).

Graham

[Keith]

Matsumoto's huge universe encompassing GE: 999, Harlock, Yamato, etc would definately be mine.

[hevangel2]

I like Asimov's The End of Eternality

[Guppy]

Loved the 1st 2 dune books, 3rd was ok, 4-6 I crawled through. I second Drew TWC, the Song of Ice and Fire series by George R.R. Martin is mindblowing. Please everybody go read this!! I love the way he's not afraid to f*ck up his protagonists, and have complete a-holes as some of the main characters.

I tried to get into the Wheel of Time, but couldn't.

I'll get pegged with rotten tomatoes for saying this, but I love/d the Gunslinger series from Stephen King. the more recent books are a bit scatty but the early ones are great.

[drifand]

E.E. 'Doc' Smith's Lensman series, anyone? Dates back to the 50's I think... and sadly long out of print. The character and racial stereotypes are fairly archaic now, but the space battles and intrigue made for a great read.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

hell no guppy. The gunslinger books kicked ass. its just a shame there'll be no more of em.

[JELEINEN]

E.E. 'Doc' Smith's Lensman series, anyone? Dates back to the 50's I think... and sadly long out of print. The character and racial stereotypes are fairly archaic now, but the space battles and intrigue made for a great read.

329445[/snapback]

I mentioned it. He started writing them back in the 30's, actually.

[JELEINEN]

Matsumoto's huge universe encompassing GE: 999, Harlock, Yamato, etc would definately be mine.

329435[/snapback]

Good call. Also we definitely could add Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

[Akilae]

Other series I thoroughly enjoy, but are more fantasy than Sci-Fi are:

A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin- A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords. Forthcoming are A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons with two more unnamed books planned in the series. Two Novellas- The Hedge Knight and The Sworn Sword are set in the same world, about 100 years before the events of A Song of Ice and Fire. While not required reading, they do add a bit of insight in the world of Westeros. I was recently turned on to this series and am now hooked. Somehow, this author crams a lot of story and character development into a a single book. Another perk is how Martin does not pull any punches when describing the visciousness and shear violence of battle, and character's actions.

The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan- New Spring (this is the first novel in a planned prequel trilogy, and is a further elaboration of the short story of the same name. Robert Jordan has decided to forego the other two prequels until he gets around to actually finishing the main series), The Eye of the World. The Great Hunt, The Dragon Reborn, The Shadow Rising, The Fires of Heaven, Lord of Chaos, A Crown of Swords, The Path of Daggers, Winter's Heart, Crossroads of Twilight and the soon to be released Knife of Dreams. The twelth and supposedly last book in the series is yet to be named. As with most fans of the series, I have a love/hate relationship with WOT. On one hand, it is a fun series to read, and you can really get hooked on the characters. On the other hand, one wishes Jordan would just get it over with!

329356[/snapback]

Between these two, my vote goes to George R. R. Martin. While Martin's grittiness is a plus, Jordan is really having problems ending his story... every time he finishes writing one more book I have to reread the entire series to keep on track of who's who and what's happening... I got lost around when the Sanchean (sp? The one with the collars...) came into play...

Hopefully Martin will end the story as planned instead of opting for an extension in his contract... really looking forward to A Feast for Crows.

Dunno how you count epic... but The Dark Tower series and The Stand by Stephen King sure stand out in my mind.

DLDS is also a must.

[the white drew carey]

Between these two, my vote goes to George R. R. Martin.  While Martin's grittiness is a plus, Jordan is really having problems ending his story... every time he finishes writing one more book I have to reread the entire series to keep on track of who's who and what's happening... I got lost around when the Sanchean (sp? The one with the collars...) came into play...

Hopefully Martin will end the story as planned instead of opting for an extension in his contract... really looking forward to A Feast for Crows.

Dunno how you count epic... but The Dark Tower series and The Stand by Stephen King sure stand out in my mind.

DLDS is also a must.

329497[/snapback]

My wife and I agree with your sentiments about Jordan. Hopefully, once the series is complete, it will flow a lot better is read from beginning to end.

I also totally agree with your thoughts on Martin. One of the main points that ALL of my friends made when recommending A Song of Ice and Fire was that, at any given moment, a major character can be killed off. I think it makes the series one of the most believable that I've ever read because no one is ever safe.

The Dark Tower series does rock, but I think The Stand isn't really that good. King's main selling point (to me) is that he can write in such a way that you WANT to keep reading, even if the story blows chunks (most recently this happened with Dreamcatcher). I think The Stand has the same effect on me. It's definitely big, it sure is epic, but I just cruised through it in two days while in Europe and, once I was done, said to myself: "That was it?"

One thing I entirely enjoy about King is that, if not all, then most of his books have some connection. In a way, that ties a majority of his books into an epic-type series.

Edited September 18, 2005 by the white drew carey

[Starnite]

My personal favorite for sci fi is the Honor Harrington series, I have read it like 10 times now. The first book, "On Basilisk Station" is available free from the baen website. I also like Pern, the posleen series, and a bunch of the others already mentioned.

[Guest Bromgrev]

Most of my nominations have already been mentioned: Foundation (Asimov), Alliance/Union (Cherryh), Dune (Herbert), Amtrak Wars (Tilley), Berserker (Saberhagen), Song of Ice and Fire (Martin), Honor Harrington (Weber).

I would add Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Triology - not to everyone's taste, but a hyper-realistic exploration of what really would happen if manking colonised the Solar system in the near future. In other words, early idealism crushed by politics, with a glimmer of hope at the end.

And if I can throw in a fantasy epic - Raymond E. Feist's Magician series, especially the Empire triology co-written with Janny Wurts.

[Gabe Q]

I just finished reading Dune a few weeks ago for the first time. I was in awe. A great read.

I'll probably reread it again in a few weeks.

[chrono]

And if I can throw in a fantasy epic - Raymond E. Feist's Magician series, especially the Empire triology co-written with Janny Wurts.

329682[/snapback]

Totally agree with you on Feist's Magician series(or whatever it's called). Sure in many ways it's tradional power fantasy, but it's a very good read that brings alot of subjects to the table in the way of how history dominates groups of peoples and their views of the world.

[kanata67]

I will limit to sci-fi only as if I included fantasy

stainless steel rat

terry pratchet's "discworld" series [1 book was sci-fi and explained discworld ]

dune [as everybody has said]

david webers "honor harrington" series [i've read 10+ so far and they just won't stop]

anything by harlan ellison

heinliens "lazurus" series

orson scott card's "ender" series

robert anton wilson "illuminati" series

james doohan "the flight engineer" trilogy

larry nivens "man-kzin wars"

mike shepherd's "kris longnife" series

series I'm sucked into but haven't finished [usually because the authors aren't, at least to my knowledge]

chris bunch "the last legion" series

lisanne normans "sholan alliance" series

something I forget involving "posleen" or something... alien centaur type things invede earth after "benificial" aliens warn earth and recruit our violent warriors as everybody else who's anti centaur can't fight worth a damn. I really should see if the next book came out yet but that would require finding one of the books in my house so I knew the series name and autor name. Not an easy task in my house let me tell you

as I get frustrated and scoure through a few hundred books to find... john ringo as the author, which figures as I'm also waiting for more of the "there will be dragons" series from him.

I'm sure there are outhers but my short term memory is shot and I read a novel every day or two and lose track...

at least with a memory as bad as mine I can re-read stuff sooner

Edited September 20, 2005 by kanata67

[Akilae]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the Ender series, the first book in particular: Ender's Game. I think out of all the sci-fi I've read it's really the most touching: the utter destruction of childhood innocence in order to raise the perfect military commander.

The gate is down!!!

[the white drew carey]

One night when I was visiting my sister she asked me to pick out a book in my brother-in-law's library for her to read. I jokingly pulled out Ender's Game thinking she'd never read it (she can't stand sci-fi).

One week later she's read every book in the series.

I agree, it'sa good!!

[Twoducks]

Let's not forget that The Foundation series is actually part of a larger story arc that, in essence, begins with his Robot short stories and ends with Foundation and Earth.

In chronological order within the story line:

The Complete Robot (short story collection)

The Robots Series (during the preliminary colonization of space)

The Caves of Steel

The Naked Sun

The Robots of Dawn

Robots and Empire

The Empire Series (events during the height of the Galactic Empire)

The Currents of Space

The Stars, Like Dust

Pebble in the Sky

The Foundation Series (set in the decline of the Galactic Empire)

Prelude to Foundation

Forward the Foundation

    (The Foundation Trilogy)

    Foundation

    Foundation and Empire

    Second Foundation

Foundation's Edge

Foundation and Earth

There are also several short stories which may or may not be considered part of the complete story arc, but this distinction lies wholly within the reader's preference. Other authors have also added to the series with their own works after Asimov's death. This is pretty much sacrilege in the same vein as Herbert's son writing some pretty terrible Dune novels.

Some people suggest that one should actually read the series in the order they were published, keeping in mind that the Foundation and Robot series were originally not meant to be contained within the same world, and therefore present some tricky plot inconsistencies that one has to deal with

329347[/snapback]

Thanks for the information. I loved the Foundation trilogy and wanted to read more.

I bought a magazine that came with Foundation because I had nothing to read that day in the subway. I was lucky to find that book because the magazine was packed with a random book.

Someday I'll get around to reading Dune; at least the original.

[jardann]

Several of my favorites have been mentioned already.

G.R.R. Martin's Song of fire and ice is truly an epic and truly great, but that's fantasy not Sci-fi.

My nomination is for two Arthur C. Clarke epics. One of my all-time favorite authors. I'm surprised they haven't been mentioned yet.

The Rama series - 1. Rendezvous with Rama (1972)

2. Rama II (1989) (with Gentry Lee)

3. The Garden of Rama (1991) (with Gentry Lee)

4. Rama Revealed (1993) (with Gentry Lee)

and of course the Space Odyssey - 1. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)

2. 2010: Odyssey Two (1982)

3. 2061: Odyssey Three (1985)

4. 3001: The Final Odyssey (1996)

These are some of the best and far reaching series I have ever read. These along with Asimov's books are very much "hard" science fiction. Meaning the subjects and technology are extrapolated from real scientific theories and possibilities.

[JKeats]

The Rama series and most definitely the Hyperion series.

[JELEINEN]

Gordon Dickson's Dorsai series is definitely epic.

While it's only one book, it has a huge scope, so I'll add Clifford D. Simak's City.