MGS 4 : Guns of the Patriots

[Roy Focker]

Yeah no fighting just make some loving

[dizman]

Lol master of the blade? The knifing in the game isnt too hard as long as you stay away from the lag stuns and super grabs . Anywhoo I didnt start up the clan since I figured it was Keith's idea and he should be the leader.

Final thought: with the big success of MGS4 I wouldnt be suprised if Snatcher was remade.

Edited June 18, 2008 by dizman

[eugimon]

eugimon, its pretentious douchebags like you why i stopped coming around here. You try to ruin for everyone if they dont share your opinion.

Face it, you are not always right...stop trying to force your opinion around and stop belittling others for having a different opinion. If someone says something that you dont agree with, you feel the need to shoot them down.

Honestly, are you that desperate for attention? Does it make you feel like a big man to put others down?

So what if someone is a gundam fan or a transformers fan...even on a macross board, people are allowed to like other anime's besides Macross.

dont waste your time typing whatever you consider to be a well thought out, witty, sarcastic comment...keep it to yourself...its not funny, but if it makes you feel better to put someone down via a keyboard, by all means...insult me big man. You are absolutly pathetic.

Mods...feel free to ban me if you want, this place is just as bad as Newsarama. There is no free thought here....just pure keyboard mob-mentality

as usual jeremy your complete lack of reading comprehension is staggering.

Let's do a quick recap:

me: I like the game but I don't like the voice acting

transfan: but it's the same voice acting as always

me: I never played the other games but I still don't like the VA

transfan: you never played so you're a newbie and have no right to talk

me: well you don't have the right avatar so you don't have the right to talk either

transfan: lol

I see no stifling of people who don't agree with me and other than stating my opinion, I never even brought it up again while other people went on to discuss the matter with much more depth and analysis than I could (because I didn't play the other games) or wanted to.

In fact Jeremy, I have defended you in the past from what I thought was an unwaranted attack and you flamed me back then for my trouble as well. Again, completely misreading my post. I see that nothing has changed for you.

Anyways, you keep saying that you're going to ignore me and yet every few months you pop out of your remedial english class to take a cheap shot at me. There's an ignore option, use it. I know I will.

[Mellow Yellow]

Best game I have ever played. I finished it a couple days ago and Chapter 4 was what finally cemented it for me. The bad thing tho was I finished with 501 kills. I didn't know if it's possible for those rebels to win more battles past the power station so I just kept killing, hoping to help them win I think I'll try for pure stealth on my second run thru

Edited June 18, 2008 by Mellow Yellow

[mpchi]

Best game I have ever played. I finished it a couple days ago and Chapter 4 was what finally cemented it for me. The bad thing tho was I finished with 501 kills. I didn't know if it's possible for those rebels to win more battles past the power station so I just kept killing, hoping to help them win I think I'll try for pure stealth on my second run thru

I do kill a lot, and really care less about the ranking. Most of the time, I do the stealth part too, and use the tranquilizer gun whenever its handy. But I usually don't leave sleeping soldiers alive, in case they wake up on me and cause me trouble later. But no or very little killing sure makes it more challenging. I also scavenge a lot. Hang out a bit longer in areas where rebels battling PMCs with unlimited respawn (especially when there is a RPG guy or someone with expensive weapon, lot more points than regular guns), stocking up numerous guns and ammo for more DB points. Kind of funny that all the rebels look at me with an alert when they see me playing around with all their dead comrades. But glad they stay as friendlies unless I really start taking them down.

Edited June 18, 2008 by mpchi

[Gaijin]

Finally finished the game, after 19 hours. I didn't think MGS3 could be topped, especially in regards to story satisfaction but this may just be the finest game I've ever played.

Now MGO awaits!

[Isamu Starkiller]

Finally finished the game, after 19 hours. I didn't think MGS3 could be topped, especially in regards to story satisfaction but this may just be the finest game I've ever played.

Now MGO awaits!

I thought the same thing, I just began the Outter Heaven mission and I am absolutely floored by how amazing this game experience has been so far.

The mission briefing after Shadow Moses is pretty funny, Mei Ling: "Any Questions?"

Snake: "Anyone got a smoke?"

Otacon: "Snake you ever think of quitting?"

Snake: "What's the point, it's not like I have my health to worry about." LMAO!

[bandit29]

FYI

http://kotaku.com/5017760/metal-gear-solid...-store-tomorrow

[eugimon]

it's like they made it just for me!

I have to say though, even for a MG neophyte like me, the story was pretty interesting and it did a very respectable job of setting up the character's relationships so that even if you didn't have all the backstory, anyone paying attention could figure out a lot of it and still get drawn into them.

[Roy Focker]

Finished it this afternoon but didn't have time to watch the final until later.

Ranked inchworm an scorpion. Awesome game.

I expected some characters to meet their end. There was a lot of surprizes. I'm still scratching my head from it all.

[Keith]

Lol master of the blade? The knifing in the game isnt too hard as long as you stay away from the lag stuns and super grabs . Anywhoo I didnt start up the clan since I figured it was Keith's idea and he should be the leader.

Final thought: with the big success of MGS4 I wouldnt be suprised if Snatcher was remade.

Feel free to go ahead, though I think you also have to clear 20 hours. We just need to snag our Clan name before someone else does. As for the Snatcher remake, I just had a thought, There's supposed to be bonus unlockable content as time goes by, and Konami releases passwords. What if they hid the original Snatcher & Policenauts on the disc...I know I'm setting myself up for dissapointment, but it would barely take up a gig if that, and would be sooo awesome.

One of the funniest scenes I thought was

When Naomi pulls Otacon into the Helicopter, and he finally gets some in the series.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Keith

[transfan52]

Feel free to go ahead, though I think you also have to clear 20 hours. We just need to snag our Clan name before someone else does. As for the Snatcher remake, I just had a thought, There's supposed to be bonus unlockable content as time goes by, and Konami releases passwords. What if they hid the original Snatcher & Policenauts on the disc...I know I'm setting myself up for dissapointment, but it would barely take up a gig if that, and would be sooo awesome.

One of the funniest scenes I thought was

When Naomi pulls Otacon into the Helicopter, and he finally gets some in the series.

LOL yeah

I never woulda thought a guy like otacon could score a chick but in MGS anything is possible lol.

[eugimon]

video of unlockable weapons including the musket doing its thing:

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/06/19/the-secr...l-gear-solid-4/

[Sergorn]

Finished it again in Solid Normal. 17 hours at the clock by going more stealthy this time. I almost managed a no-kill run, mais I had 2 death I don't know where

(On a side not I really recommend people to play in Big Boss Hard... as always in MGS, the Normal modes are just way too easy)

So anyway with hindsight I must say I have trouble situating MGS4 quality-wise - in term of gameplya well no question : MGS4 > *

In term of plot I have a hard time decidint between MGS3&4.

MGS3 has the main advantage of being the beigiing of it all - so it works very well as a stand alone story - which means it's simply brillant on its own.

MGS4 being the final episode has the daunting tying of tying everything up and every loose up together, as well as answering every. It does all that brillantly (which is an accomplishment in itself considering how many final chapters fall short, especially in videogames), mais it doesn't really gives it the chance to shine by himself considering how much it relies on the previous episodes.

So I guess I'll rate them like :

Gameplay

MGS4 > MGS3 > MGS2 > MGSTS > MPO > MG2 > MGS1 > MG1

Story

MGS3 > MGS4 > MGS2 > MPO > MGS1/TS > MG2 > MG1

On a side note while I'm not disapointed per se... I must asmit there are a few aspect I would have prefered handled differently [DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE GAME]

All in all I found everything very satysting but.... I wish MGS4 hadn't simplt dropped all the supernatural aspects of the story and solely focus on semi-scientific explanation. I'm really suprised the whole Sorrow aspect was never brought up.... and while the explanation for "Liquid" Ocelot was pretty well thought up I can't sake the feeling that Kojima originially intented to have a more supernatural explanation after MGS2&3 (eck the MGS2 comic pretty much hint that way as well), but decided to just drop it in MGS4 - possibly because of how many fans reacted to these surnatural aspects. It's not really a disspointement but a little regret

-Sergorn

[dizman]

Wow that musket is badass, and the solar gun is pretty neat too (I never realised Kojima was involved with Boktai). Im still in hopes that the 1911 custom from MGS3 and the Peacemaker make it into MGS4, hopefully to be released in some DLC.

[Isamu Starkiller]

I completed MGS4 this afternoon, I really enjoyed it . I do have two nagging questions...

How in the name of God did Raiden get a flesh and blood body again? And BB's explaination of Ocelot being Liquid's Doppleganger lost me....was it always Ocelot? Did Liquid die on Shadow Moses in MGS1?

[eugimon]

I completed MGS4 this afternoon, I really enjoyed it . I do have two nagging questions...

How in the name of God did Raiden get a flesh and blood body again? And BB's explaination of Ocelot being Liquid's Doppleganger lost me....was it always Ocelot? Did Liquid die on Shadow Moses in MGS1?

it wasn't flesh and blood. If you look carefully, there were little bar codes, they were just human look prosthetics.

[Keith]

I completed MGS4 this afternoon, I really enjoyed it . I do have two nagging questions...

How in the name of God did Raiden get a flesh and blood body again? And BB's explaination of Ocelot being Liquid's Doppleganger lost me....was it always Ocelot? Did Liquid die on Shadow Moses in MGS1?

Basically,

In order to fool the Patriots, after MGS1 Ocelot used Nano-machines to implant the personality of Liquid into himself, so that he could fool the A.I. into thinking he had really been possessed, and that none of his actions were actually his own. and at the same to motivate Snake into stopping him. Apparently he knew enough about the A.I. to know that it would use the same solution to solve the same problem, i.e. send Solid up against Liquid. He didn't believe himself strong enough, or perhaps without scrutiny enough, to slip past Patriots defenses, so he set events in motion to use their own solution against them, i.e. Solid Snake. Solid of course would have been motivated to stop his brother again no matter what, but perhaps not so interested in what Ocelot may be doing, especially after the aging kicked in.

The way things have been set up, Ocelolt, through the only means available to him, becomes the true tragic hero of the story. All the while taking the role of a hated traitor, just like his mother, to get someone else (snake) poised into position to finnish off the big evil. And as Drebin points out, the Patriots fall for it hook like & sinker, complete with inadvertantly giving Snake the tools strong enough to stop even them (i.e. Sonny). So no, he was never Liquid, but for a good reason.

I agree with Sergorn, it is kinda sad that the Supernatural aspects were stripped from the ending, but we're given a clue that they weren't necessarily so. If you pay attention to the Psycho Mantis visit, despite what Drebin says, he actually does appear there, and with powers that Screaming Mantis didn't have. Hell, Snake see's him (L1) during the first appearance of the B&B squad. It's said that his personality was implanted in her with Nano's, but that doesn't explain the things Snake saw. At the same time, perhaps the same is the case with Ocellot, granting Liquid one final battle iwth Snake for his help in stopping the Patriots, though he seems to be excorcised out the further the fight goes along, beating the Revolver back into him Official or not, that's how I like to reconsile it.

Besides, we know there are still ghosts in MGS, The Sorrow, the Boss, Raven dissapearing at the end of his fight in 1, and the re-appearance of Fox hound in the secret Shadow Moses pictures in 4. So maybe in this case, the Nanomachines just make people more succeptable to possession.

I forget who, but someone posted this link here a while ago, and I want to thank them. http://gigaville.com , it was a great web comic, and fits in with the conclusion of the story suspiciously well. It's finnished with 500 pages, but well worth the read.

If there's anything that I wanted to see that wasn't there, it'd be more of

that tweaked A.I. itself, perhaps learn that it had Zero's personalit implanted in it (and as such possessing it), or something to that effect. Though I did love the graveyard re-enactment.

Edited June 20, 2008 by Keith

[Sergorn]

If there's anything that I wanted to see that wasn't there, it'd be more of

that tweaked A.I. itself, perhaps learn that it had Zero's personalit implanted in it (and as such possessing it), or something to that effect. Though I did love the graveyard re-enactment.

Yeah...

I pretty much expected the Patriots to have 'transfered' their indentityé into the AI Network as well - but in the end nay it was just an AI gone bad, just like Skynet

-Sergorn

[Roy Focker]

I don't know I'm still confused.

[dizman]

Well heres a faster easier plot ending to understand.

Ocelot used hypnotherapy, nanomachines and his ancestry to pretty much act like liquid and give the perception that he was posessed..... but really he was still Ocelot (as the final battle shows). The reason ocelot did this was so that in the end snake would destroy JD, GW and all the other AI's so to free a newly rebuilt Big Boss (I knew hairspray and a lighter couldnt keep that man down) who was in a kind of coma.

Hope that helps . Now heres my question

if Big Boss died so quickly due to the new foxdie then why didnt Eva or even Ocelot (who saw him in act 1 and should have been infected then) die as fast?

[Sergorn]

Well heres a faster easier plot ending to understand.

Ocelot used hypnotherapy, nanomachines and his ancestry to pretty much act like liquid and give the perception that he was posessed..... but really he was still Ocelot (as the final battle shows). The reason ocelot did this was so that in the end snake would destroy JD, GW and all the other AI's so to free a newly rebuilt Big Boss (I knew hairspray and a lighter couldnt keep that man down) who was in a kind of coma.

Hope that helps . Now heres my question

if Big Boss died so quickly due to the new foxdie then why didnt Eva or even Ocelot (who saw him in act 1 and should have been infected then) die as fast?

I don't think so...

It really feels that Ocelot really wasn't himself anymore, even if the "Liquid persona" was just a construct. There were probably times were the real Ocelot could ressurface and influence the Liquid persona... but nay I'm pretty sure Ocelot wasn't just "acting" - that actually put his whole sacrifice even further ; he went as far as sacrifying his own personality in order to destroy the Patriots - "Loyalty to the End" just like his mother. And beside the final battle really feels like you're "punching back" Ocelot's actual personality into him, as symbolised by the name tags (Liquid, then Liquid Ocelot, then finally Ocelot). And besides if Ocelot was just acting all the time, the plot just don't make any kind of sense anymore - heck Snake would have bit the dust by the end of Act IV if it wasn't for Raiden. And if Ocelot was acting... he'd just wouldn't even need Snake anymore once he had control of SOP, he could just have put the virus himself in the end. So nay I think Ocelot really was "posseded" in a way by the Liquid persona - except this persona was a construct he made himself through hypnosis and nanomachines rather than it actually being Liquid's spirit. As for why FOXDIE didn't act as quick good question - I'd say it's possible the shots Ocelot kept puting into himself were to put FOXDIE at bay. Also keep in mind than in MGS1 FOXDIE also seemed to act randomly... Anderson and Baker died quickly while it took a long time for it have any effect on Liquid. I'm not sure about EVA though, and I'm kinda confused about why they throw herself into the fire consdiereing the ending.

-Sergorn

[kung flu]

i must have missed this, but when did they tell us who ocelot's parents were in the mgs series?

[Roy Focker]

I'm not sure about EVA though, and I'm kinda confused about why they throw herself into the fire consdiereing the ending.

Me too.

Was Eva in on the plot right? If she had to die to advanced their goal. Couldn't she have just been shot? Did she decide to be burned alive? The patriots the founders were humans and the current ones were AI? No people behind them?

[Valkyrie Nut]

Why do I feel so far behind considering I bought this only a week after it's release here in Europe? Anyway, I've never really been a huge fan of the Metal Gear series but my god this game is awesome and I'm only part through act 1!

[Sergorn]

i must have missed this, but when did they tell us who ocelot's parents were in the mgs series?

It's implied in MGS3. If you com EVA to death in the caves before The Pain's bossfight, she'll tell you that Ocelot was supposidely the son of a legendary hero, and taht he was born on a battlefield leaving his mother with a Snake-like scar. In the end of the game, The Boss tells you that she had a child with The Sorrow which was born during her landing in Normandy in 1944 and left her with a Snake-like scar and that her child was stolen from the Philosophers. Not hard to put 2 and 2 together after that. It has also been confirmed by other sources, notably the official MGS2 comic book. As a matter of fact, the fact that Ocelot was the Sorrown's son

has been a long thought theory to explain the whole "Liquid possession" from MGS2 Since The Sorrow had the power to channel the spirit of the dead, it felt plausible that Ocelot had inherited this power and could channel Liquid's spirit through his left arm

Me too.

Was Eva in on the plot right? If she had to die to advanced their goal. Couldn't she have just been shot? Did she decide to be burned alive? The patriots the founders were humans and the current ones were AI? No people behind them?

Good question....

We know that EVA and Ocelot side with Big Boss during his "Cold War" with Zero with Ocelot remaining as a double agent - and that after Zanzibar Land he originally worked together with EVA in trying to get Big Boss' body (Indeed could it be why he had joined with Liquid in MGS ? Big Boss' body was amonsgt his demand). But EVA genuinly seems to believe that ADAM is lost to Liquid's psyche at that point (which I guess she could believe even if she knew that personna was just a construct). However if she knew that body was Solidus - it doens't make sense for her to throw herself in the fire for him... he's not even her child ! So I'd say either she was on all in from the whole time (which kinda cheapens her death IMO) or she didn't know the body on the Volta river was Solidus' but that seems unlikely as well since she's suppusedly the one who recontructed Big Boss from SOlidus and Liquid's parts.

Regarding the Patriot that part wasn't complicated. After the fallout with Big Boss' Zero didn't trust anyone to succeed him after his death - so he established the AI Network to replace him and lead the country once he was gone. I rather liked the irony that he who craved for absolute power ended up in a vegetative state, with no more control over his creation.

Anyone got that MGS4 Database from the PSN ? It supposedely answer quite a bit of stuff... but it doesn't work with PAL save

-Sergorn

Edited June 21, 2008 by Sergorn

[GogDog]

it wasn't flesh and blood. If you look carefully, there were little bar codes, they were just human look prosthetics.

I'm pretty sure he had those in MGS2. When he is naked in Arsenal Gear, you can see the barcodes on his arms. it implies that it was hi original body.

[Sergorn]

I'm pretty sure he had those in MGS2. When he is naked in Arsenal Gear, you can see the barcodes on his arms. it implies that it was hi original body.

Yeah he had the codebars in MGS2.... but his body in the end just looks like it has been all hacked up and put back together. You can even seen the "entry plugs" along his spine. I don't think you can just go back from being a cyborg Ninja to a humain... and the character designer pretty much confirmed that Raiden was just a "head and spine now". Even Raiden still consider himself a monster in the head. I think they just gave him a more human-looking in the end... but still cybertenic one.

-Sergorn

[GogDog]

Yeah he had the codebars in MGS2.... but his body in the end just looks like it has been all hacked up and put back together. You can even seen the "entry plugs" along his spine. I don't think you can just go back from being a cyborg Ninja to a humain... and the character designer pretty much confirmed that Raiden was just a "head and spine now". Even Raiden still consider himself a monster in the head. I think they just gave him a more human-looking in the end... but still cybertenic one.

-Sergorn

Ok, I found this video, and he does indeed have the barcodes on his arms like that in MGS2, but he also has one on his chest, which is obviously not there in 4, so I stand corrected.

[Keith]

Eva

She was involved with stealing back Big Boss's body, but did they specifically say she was involved with reconstructing it? Perhaps only Liquid & Naomi were involved with that part, so as to keep Big Boss's return a full secret, and keep Eva's protection of the body more "genuine."

And Raiden

Though it still isn't affirmed to be canon, if Snatcher still occurs in the Metal Gear universe, then Modnar/Madnar's reconstruction of Raiden may be biological tissue over a cybernetic skeleton. By that time the senior Modnar had already perfected his cancer free skin cloning technology, though going by his technilogical standards, he should have also perfected real blood over artificial. Hell, maybe it was Elija Modnar impersonating his father, and using inferior Snatcher technology to rebuild Raiden.

Guess there's no way to know unless there's a sidestory or something later on.

[Chowser]

Someone told me that the hint book had a synopsis of the entire MGS story in it.

Can someone verify this?

Maybe I'll hit up gamestop for one of their perused copies.

[GogDog]

Eva

She was involved with stealing back Big Boss's body, but did they specifically say she was involved with reconstructing it? Perhaps only Liquid & Naomi were involved with that part, so as to keep Big Boss's return a full secret, and keep Eva's protection of the body more "genuine."

And Raiden

Though it still isn't affirmed to be canon, if Snatcher still occurs in the Metal Gear universe, then Modnar/Madnar's reconstruction of Raiden may be biological tissue over a cybernetic skeleton. By that time the senior Modnar had already perfected his cancer free skin cloning technology, though going by his technilogical standards, he should have also perfected real blood over artificial. Hell, maybe it was Elija Modnar impersonating his father, and using inferior Snatcher technology to rebuild Raiden.

Guess there's no way to know unless there's a sidestory or something later on.

Yes, it said she helped with the reconstruction. The reason she freaked out and screamed was she was killed by the new FOXDIE.

[Gaijin]

The MGS Database answers and confirms a lot of things, including:

Ocelot confirmed the son of the Boss and the Sorrow

Madnar's work, and why Naomi never caught onto it

The limited guide I know has a synopsis of the entire storyl line as well...but it's spoilerific so stay away until you reach the end of MGS4. The database is free though, and will keep the spoilers from you until you pass those events in the game.

[hal9000]

Wow just wow, I finished it today.

One thing is there a group of macross worlders that play online? I need to breake my R6V Habit.

[Dangard Ace]

Yay. Finished Act 2. Now to start 3. Can't believe you guys have time to sit and hammer this game to the end in about four days or so.