9/9/99

[Ishimaru]

Power Stone was one of my favorite games. I used to play tat game 24/7 multiplayer. Phantasy Star Online was glitched and hacked like hell Id be level 20 and get like level 99 weapon useable at 20. But any ways DC was great and the graphics werent that bad at the time.

[yellowlightman]

And you know in Japan you STILL see the odd DC game come out... Sega stopped supporting it but a few third parties kick out the odd game here and there... it's heartwarming.

327279[/snapback]

Well, considering most of those releases are ports of hentai dating sims, I don't know if I'd call it heartwarming. Still, it's nice to see the occasional release on the Dreamcast.

There's also the fact that the Atomiswave arcade system is little more than a Dreamcast in a cabinet.

[Gaijin]

I still have my Sega Dreamcast arcade stick, the ASCII fighting pads, 4 sega DC pads, 3 broken trigger Sega DC pads, the Mad Catz light guns, keyboard and VMU's up the wazoo.

If Sega had waited a year, and the DC had DVD capability they would have had a greater shot at staying in the market. Oh well. Still one of my fave systems after the Saturn and Neo.

[JB0]

And you know in Japan you STILL see the odd DC game come out... Sega stopped supporting it but a few third parties kick out the odd game here and there... it's heartwarming.

327279[/snapback]

Well, considering most of those releases are ports of hentai dating sims, I don't know if I'd call it heartwarming. Still, it's nice to see the occasional release on the Dreamcast.

Well, loin-warming is sort of the same thing...

I still have my Sega Dreamcast arcade stick, the ASCII fighting pads, 4 sega DC pads, 3 broken trigger Sega DC pads, the Mad Catz light guns, keyboard and VMU's up the wazoo.

If Sega had waited a year, and the DC had DVD capability they would have had a greater shot at staying in the market.  Oh well.  Still one of my fave systems after the Saturn and Neo.

I don't see why it needed a DVD-ROM.

The PROBLEM was that most of the people in America were brainwashed Sony lemmings that insisted that anything the Dreamcast had the PS2 did/would have more and better of. Even when it didn't.

And we were/are the biggest market.

[bandit29]

The PROBLEM was that most of the people in America were brainwashed Sony lemmings that insisted that anything the Dreamcast had the PS2 did/would have more and better of. Even when it didn't.

And we were/are the biggest market.

327394[/snapback]

Well that's partially true. But Sega's reputation in the US was anything but good. After a number of failed consoles in the US, not many consumers/game companies/retailers had faith in Sega.

I loved the Dreamcast. Probably the most underrated system ever. Soul Calibur, Sonic Adventure 1, Shenmue 1 & 2, Tech Romancer, Darkstalkers, DOA2, Guilty Gear X and Berserk were some of my favorites

[JB0]

The PROBLEM was that most of the people in America were brainwashed Sony lemmings that insisted that anything the Dreamcast had the PS2 did/would have more and better of. Even when it didn't.

And we were/are the biggest market.

327394[/snapback]

Well that's partially true. But Sega's reputation in the US was anything but good. After a number of failed consoles in the US, not many consumers/game companies/retailers had faith in Sega.

A failed console and A failed expansion to a highly successful console.

As far as I know, most of America is unaware that the Master System even existed.

[bandit29]

The PROBLEM was that most of the people in America were brainwashed Sony lemmings that insisted that anything the Dreamcast had the PS2 did/would have more and better of. Even when it didn't.

And we were/are the biggest market.

327394[/snapback]

Well that's partially true. But Sega's reputation in the US was anything but good. After a number of failed consoles in the US, not many consumers/game companies/retailers had faith in Sega.

A failed console and A failed expansion to a highly successful console.

As far as I know, most of America is unaware that the Master System even existed.

327432[/snapback]

Not many people I knew had the master system....b

Sega had 2 failed exapansions for the Genesis, the 32x and the Sega CD. The Game Gear also failed(even though I liked it) vs the Gameboy. And the Saturn of course failed here. I'd say thats enough failures for people to be cautious. They finally got it right with the Dreamcast but by then it was too late. The casual gamer and all those FF/Square fanboys/girls weren't interested in the Dreamcast.

[Axelay]

Yeah, too many previous failures made people wary. That's a damn shame, but sadly understandable.

Oooh, no one mentioned Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram yet! I absolutely loved that game as well.

[areaseven]

I miss my Dreamcast. Used to play Sega Bass Fishing all day, especially with the fishing rod controller.

[JB0]

Sega had 2 failed exapansions for the Genesis, the 32x and the Sega CD.

SegaCD was NOT a failure.

It is UNREASONABLE to compare SegaCD sales to those of standalone consoles, because it ISN'T a standalone console. It is an EXPANSION. It's ENTIRE available market consisted of Genesis owners, whereas a standalone console's market consists of everyone.

It wasn't considered a failure until post-Dreamcast, when people started explaining how Sega was a total screwup that couldn't do anything right and was doomed from day 1.

The Game Gear also failed(even though I liked it) vs the Gameboy. And the Saturn of course failed here. I'd say thats enough failures for people to be cautious.

I think everyone had long since forgotten the Game Gear.

I'm sure the 32x and Saturn factored in a little bit, but it was largely just Sony fanboys.

They finally got it right with the Dreamcast but by then it was too late. The casual gamer and all those FF/Square fanboys/girls weren't interested in the Dreamcast.

They were, actually. They were interested in bashing it. They'd talk about how ugly it was and how much better the PS2 was. Before the PS2 even had finalized hardware.

And of course, in the continuing Sonyist revision, the DC is now known to have "no good games."

[bandit29]

Sega had 2 failed exapansions for the Genesis, the 32x and the Sega CD.

SegaCD was NOT a failure.

It is UNREASONABLE to compare SegaCD sales to those of standalone consoles, because it ISN'T a standalone console. It is an EXPANSION. It's ENTIRE available market consisted of Genesis owners, whereas a standalone console's market consists of everyone.

It wasn't considered a failure until post-Dreamcast, when people started explaining how Sega was a total screwup that couldn't do anything right and was doomed from day 1.

I'd say it was a failure. I owned one. I know how horrible it was lol

It was an expansion that took up space on retail shelves. The expansion itself and the games didn't sell well. In other words a failure.

Sega really farted up when they were selling Genesis, Sega CD and 32x games all at the same time. Talk about consumer confusion..

[gerwalk25]

Still have my DC. It's still in my living room (unplugged) gathering sentimental dust. My games are in an album along with my PSone and Saturn games to boot waiting to be taken out and be played once again (someday). My fave Dreamcast titles?

-Bangaioh

-Power Stone

-Space Channel 5

-Seaman

-Tech Romancer

-Crazy Taxi

-Crazy Taxi 2

-Jet Set (Grind) Radio

-Maken X

-Sonic Adventure

-Shenmue

[JB0]

Sega had 2 failed exapansions for the Genesis, the 32x and the Sega CD.

SegaCD was NOT a failure.

It is UNREASONABLE to compare SegaCD sales to those of standalone consoles, because it ISN'T a standalone console. It is an EXPANSION. It's ENTIRE available market consisted of Genesis owners, whereas a standalone console's market consists of everyone.

It wasn't considered a failure until post-Dreamcast, when people started explaining how Sega was a total screwup that couldn't do anything right and was doomed from day 1.

I'd say it was a failure. I owned one. I know how horrible it was lol

I own one. Present tense. Wouldn't trade Eternal Blue for nothing.

It was an expansion that took up space on retail shelves. The expansion itself and the games didn't sell well. In other words a failure.

It sold well enough to be worth re-designing to match the Genny2 instead of abandoning.

(In Japan, it actually sold the Genesis, but we're concerned with America here)

Market penetration was slightly better than Final Fantasy 7, and I don't see anyone calling that a failure. And yes, it's a valid comparison, as FF7's market was totally restricted to PS1 owners, and the SegaCD's was totally restricted to Genesis owners.

It makes no logical sense to compare add-on sales to standalone consoles. While not totally adequate, it makes more sense to compare them to software as they share similar market restraints.

Sega really farted up when they were selling Genesis, Sega CD and 32x games all at the same time. Talk about consumer confusion..

Sega sold 32x games?

And for maximum confusion, there were 32x CD games. I own 3 of them, though I've never owned a 32x. Previous owner of my Genny had a 32x for a long time, and kept the games after it broke.

...

I've never really understood why the SegaCD and 32x were treated as systems instead of add-ons until this moment.

The word Genesis didn't appear on SegaCD games, and the packages, while the same style, had a large color-coded sidebar that announced in big letters what level of system they were for.

Sega treated them largely as seperate systems, which did a lot to minimize confusion(though some is inevitable, no matter how clear it is).

Edited September 11, 2005 by JB0

[Ladic]

I love my 32X, of course I bought it when it was being sold for $20 at toys r us, and $4 a game (in early 96), but the Star Wars Arcada, Virtua Fighter, Virtua racing kicked ass.

It also had the best version of Mortal Kombat 2 of any console, and NBA Jam was quite nice too.

I also have some Spider-Man game for it, which was alright.

[JB0]

I love my 32X, of course I bought it when it was being sold for $20 at toys r us, and $4 a game (in early 96), but the Star Wars Arcada, Virtua Fighter, Virtua racing kicked ass.

It also had the best version of Mortal Kombat 2 of any console, and NBA Jam was quite nice too.

I also have some Spider-Man game for it, which was alright.

327524[/snapback]

I can see where it's a lot more appealing at that price level.

And I wouldn't mind having one, really. EVERYTHING has a few games worth having.

But the 32x was largely a joke. It was obvious it was going to be dropped almost immediatly when the Saturn came out.

And in practice, it was stillborn because Sega couldn't spare the programmers from the Saturn to feed the 32x.

Now if the 32x had upgraded a Genesis with a SegaCD up to a Saturn... THAT would've been something else entirely. Would've saved the loyal a good 200$(32x launched at 200, Saturn at 400, as I recall). But that would've been too much to ask.

[Gaijin]

I love my 32X, of course I bought it when it was being sold for $20 at toys r us, and $4 a game (in early 96), but the Star Wars Arcada, Virtua Fighter, Virtua racing kicked ass.

It also had the best version of Mortal Kombat 2 of any console, and NBA Jam was quite nice too.

I also have some Spider-Man game for it, which was alright.

327524[/snapback]

Star Wars 32X...with Ackbar, the amazing alien from New York!! I remember cracking up the first time I heard him.

[Radd]

Saturn wasn't a bad system at all. At a time when most 3D games sucked, the Saturn was the most powerful 2D game in town. The Playstation couldn't compare. Of course, 2D was old hat, and everyone was wowed by 3D graphics, enough so that they convinced themselves that Tomb Raider was an excellent game.

Of course, I still believe it was the $400 price tag, compared to Sony's $300(cheap!), and Sega's terrible change in marketing that drowned their 32 bit attempt.

I gotta agree with JBO on the sales of add-ons as compared to software and stand alone consoles. I knew several people with a Sega CD, and amidst all the FMV crap there were some great games for it. (Sonic CD and Lunar spring to mind immeadiately.)

[JB0]

Of course,  I still believe it was the $400 price tag, compared to Sony's $300(cheap!), and Sega's terrible change in marketing that drowned their 32 bit attempt.

The price wars rectified the tag diffrence rapidly. Sega lost assloads of money there, but...

They also sort of ticked the retailers off. A lot of them weren't part of the Saturn's initial launch. The ones that were got stuck with a system that had no new games for something like six months.

And then during the price wars, in an attempt to help stem the tide of red ink on their own papers while still competing with the PS, they asked retailers to sell the Saturns at a slight loss. At which point it disappeared from shelves.

I gotta agree with JBO on the sales of add-ons as compared to software and stand alone consoles. I knew several people with a Sega CD, and amidst all the FMV crap there were some great games for it. (Sonic CD and Lunar spring to mind immeadiately.)

327636[/snapback]

As a trivia note: Lunar was the game that started the MegaDrive selling in Japan.

[cyde01]

this forum never ceases to amaze me by how much Macross fans know what's up!!!

i agree that the DC was one of the greatest consoles of all time. I think I had as much fun on the DC as, dare I say it, the glory days of 8 and 16 bit!!!!!

Virtual On OT, definitely agree with that!!! That game was sweet. If the Macross games played like a combination of Virtual On OT and Ace Combat they'd be amazing..

Sonic for DC was tite, Powerstone 2!!! That game was the shiznit. Jet Set Radio was bomb. Resident Evil Code V. was the only Resident Evil I ever played, for some odd reason (and it was awesome). The DC had all the great 2D fighters of the time, had tons of old school style shooters, and best of all was heavily supported by Capcom (one of my fav developers), which was pumping out some really unique and innovative games for it at the time, as well as good ol old school style stuff. Remember that game where you could play Charlie or Cammy, and rode around on rollerblades shooting stuff? That was a fun little game!!!

There were about 15+ games at least that I loved to play on that console. Alas, I was brainwashed by Sony at the time, and didn't buy a DC of my own. After PS2 came out, I kept waiting til there were as many games that I wanted to play on that system as there were on the DC, and kept waiting, and waiting, until I finally never got a PS2 at all. I just skipped the whole PS2/XBox/Gamecube era of gaming completey and would only play those consoles if I was at my friends' house.

My dissappointment with the PS2 and with the DC dying after I realized how awesome it was kinda made me lose interest in gaming. That and capcom just hasn't been the same company these days..

Edited September 12, 2005 by cyde01

[JB0]

this forum never ceases to amaze me by how much Macross fans know what's up!!!

I'm just obsessive about my interests.

I know way more than anyone SHOULD know about a select group of suibjects. Like video games, or Macross.

[mikeszekely]

this forum never ceases to amaze me by how much Macross fans know what's up!!!

this forum never ceases to amaze me by how much Macross fans know what's up!!!

This forum never ceases to amaze me by how much JB0 knows what's up. One of these days, I'm going to have to disagree with him simply to match wits with him.

Remember that game where you could play Charlie or Cammy, and rode around on rollerblades shooting stuff? That was a fun little game!!!

That'd be Cannon Spike... although I remember it more as the game where you could play as Megaman and ran around shooting stuff.

My dissappointment with the PS2 and with the DC dying after I realized how awesome it was kinda made me lose interest in gaming.

Well, the thing is, Nintendo has their dedicated fans, and while Microsoft and Sony both have games on their consoles that appeal to hardcore gamers, they also have a ton of commercial crap to appeal to their mass-market audience. The Dreamcast was the last system that really felt like it was specifically for the hardcore gamer.

and capcom just hasn't been the same company these days..

They're still my favorite.

[JB0]

This forum never ceases to amaze me by how much JB0 knows what's up.  One of these days, I'm going to have to disagree with him simply to match wits with him.

I welcome the challenge.

My dissappointment with the PS2 and with the DC dying after I realized how awesome it was kinda made me lose interest in gaming.

Well, the thing is, Nintendo has their dedicated fans, and while Microsoft and Sony both have games on their consoles that appeal to hardcore gamers, they also have a ton of commercial crap to appeal to their mass-market audience. The Dreamcast was the last system that really felt like it was specifically for the hardcore gamer.

*nods*

That's actually been listed as one of Sega's faults several places.

They focused too hard on the real gamers, and not enough on mass-marketability.

End result is the Master System, Saturn, and Dreamcast all kicked ass and are viewed very highly by gamers, but are generally either mocked or forgotten by the masses. The Genesis was a fluke, and sadly, the masses are turning on it now that there's nothing else left.

Hell, just look at peripherals. How many companies, even in the Genesis era, were making 1st-party joysticks? Sega carried it through to the Dreamcast.

Ditto for specialized controllers.

Mass-market 1st-party attitude is "dammit, you'll use the stock gamepad and like it" and Sega's attitude was "Ya know, some of these games would kick a lot more ass with a joystick. And you really can't play Virtua On without twin sticks. And hey, we'd kinda like to make a maraca game while we're at it."

That was actually one of the striking things about the Saturn's US launch. Virtually every peripheral you could ever want was available. Digital stick, flight stick, steering wheel, multi-tap, light gun, all lined up and out the door with the first consoles.

...

Too bad the games weren't ready.

[Gaijin]

The maracas were one of the most fun things ever to hit a console. Loads of laughter when you have a bunch of guys and girls striking a pose with a pair of maracas in front of a large TV.

[Black Valkyrie]

IMO for Sega`s consoles they always had the arcade feeling at home even if their arcade aren`t perfect porrs like Virtua Fighter 1,2 , Daytona USA and Virtua-On for the Saturn even most of their games on the Genesis/Mega Drive system and Sega-CD/Mega-CD remember Final Fight-CD

As for Nintendo`s SFC/SNES no matter what game arcade port or not it still feels like Nintendo not an arcade like the SF series and most of SNK fighing games, this is way I felt it playing all these years. Believe it or not my most wanted game for the PS3 if it gets ported is the New After Burner

Edited September 12, 2005 by Black Valkyrie

[Black Valkyrie]

Man don`t you wish to go to a place like that :

http://www.segagagadomain.com/junk/retrogaming.htm

Edited September 12, 2005 by Black Valkyrie

[Mr March]

In all honesty, I couldn't agree that the Dreamcast was the last system dedicated for hardcore gamers. Though I agree the Dreamcast had a far superior initial lineup of software compared to its contemporaries, it still had it's share of lousy titles released to fill up shelf space. The DC also lacked features like reverse compatibility, a feature which would certainly be the definition of "hardcore" in any non-subjective benchmark of the player market.

[JB0]

In all honesty, I couldn't agree that the Dreamcast was the last system dedicated for hardcore gamers.  Though I agree the Dreamcast had a far superior initial lineup of software compared to its contemporaries, it still had it's share of lousy titles released to fill up shelf space.  The DC also lacked features like reverse compatibility, a feature which would certainly be the definition of "hardcore" in any non-subjective benchmark of the player market.

327797[/snapback]

Backwards compatibility? Why?

The hardcore already OWN what came before, and aren't getting rid of it.

[mikeszekely]

The DC also lacked features like reverse compatibility, a feature which would certainly be the definition of "hardcore" in any non-subjective benchmark of the player market.

Sure... nowadays. But remember that, at the time of the Dreamcast, backwards compatibility really hadn't been done before. It was the PS2 that set that standard, with the GBA (and later the DS) following, and soon all three new consoles, to follow that trend. You can't really knock on the Dreamcast because Sega didn't think of it first.

[Gunbuster]

Sega had an adapter for the Genesis to play Master System game, does that count?

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

Aren't there still some games trickling down for the DC in Japan? My DC is still alive and kicking. Virtual On:OT + Twinsticks= good times. Much love for the Temjin and Viper. Garou: Mark of the Wolf still rocks as well.

[Mr March]

In all honesty, I couldn't agree that the Dreamcast was the last system dedicated for hardcore gamers.  Though I agree the Dreamcast had a far superior initial lineup of software compared to its contemporaries, it still had it's share of lousy titles released to fill up shelf space.  The DC also lacked features like reverse compatibility, a feature which would certainly be the definition of "hardcore" in any non-subjective benchmark of the player market.

327797[/snapback]

Backwards compatibility? Why?

The hardcore already OWN what came before, and aren't getting rid of it.

327831[/snapback]

Preservation is the most important objective of what I would define hardcore, loyal supporters. No matter how good you take care of your console, it eventually goes (much like several of my SNES cartridges). Hence, legacy support or emulation is the only alternative.

[Mr March]

The DC also lacked features like reverse compatibility, a feature which would certainly be the definition of "hardcore" in any non-subjective benchmark of the player market.

Sure... nowadays. But remember that, at the time of the Dreamcast, backwards compatibility really hadn't been done before. It was the PS2 that set that standard, with the GBA (and later the DS) following, and soon all three new consoles, to follow that trend. You can't really knock on the Dreamcast because Sega didn't think of it first.

327855[/snapback]

Not blaming Sega at all, just stating that I disagree with DC's postion as the last hardcore console. Legacy support would be more favorable for such a mantle.

[JB0]

The DC also lacked features like reverse compatibility, a feature which would certainly be the definition of "hardcore" in any non-subjective benchmark of the player market.

Sure... nowadays. But remember that, at the time of the Dreamcast, backwards compatibility really hadn't been done before. It was the PS2 that set that standard, with the GBA (and later the DS) following, and soon all three new consoles, to follow that trend. You can't really knock on the Dreamcast because Sega didn't think of it first.

Actually, it'd been done several times before the PS2. Some of which were even relevant.

Sega had an adapter for the Genesis to play Master System game, does that count?

Maybe. The hardware IS 100% compatible, the adapter shorts one pin on the cartridge slot and provides a new smaller cart slot that accomodates carts for the Master System/Mark3/SG1000/whatever the hell ELSE Sega used a Z80 on.

This WAS relevant outside of the US, but within the States no one cared as the Master System was the only 8-bit hardware to get here and it was handled atrociously badly(even ignoring Nintendo's business practices).

Other pre-PS2 backwards-compatible systems are(relevant means it actually affected the market at the time):

GameBoy Color->GameBoy (relevant)

Atari 7800->2600

Atari 5200->2600(with an adapter that contained 2600 hardware, so it shouldn't really count)

ColecoVision->2600(same deal as 5200+relevant)

IntelliVision->2600(same as 5200)

SNES->GameBoy(Same deal as 5200+game enhancements+relevance)

Master System/Mark3->SG1000/SG2000(if I recall names right)

Moving into computers(and I'm not familiar enough with this market to offer relevancy notes honestly)

99/4a->99/4

C-128->Commodore 64

Commodore 64->Vic20(I think)

Atari XE->Atari XL

Atari XL->original Atari computers

IBM PC-AT->IBM PC/XT

Every damn IBM clone on Earth -> PC-AT. Very relevant, as adhering to a 20-year-old architecture restricts the performance of your modern multi-GHz machine. </mini-rant>

Thsi is by no means guaranteed complete, though I think I hit everything of interest on the console side.

Edited September 13, 2005 by JB0

[JB0]

In all honesty, I couldn't agree that the Dreamcast was the last system dedicated for hardcore gamers.  Though I agree the Dreamcast had a far superior initial lineup of software compared to its contemporaries, it still had it's share of lousy titles released to fill up shelf space.  The DC also lacked features like reverse compatibility, a feature which would certainly be the definition of "hardcore" in any non-subjective benchmark of the player market.

327797[/snapback]

Backwards compatibility? Why?

The hardcore already OWN what came before, and aren't getting rid of it.

327831[/snapback]

Preservation is the most important objective of what I would define hardcore, loyal supporters. No matter how good you take care of your console, it eventually goes (much like several of my SNES cartridges). Hence, legacy support or emulation is the only alternative.

327871[/snapback]

Funny, as every console and game I've ever owned is still kicking, with the exception of my first copy of Metroid 2 and my first Virtual Boy, which was dropped on the floor(technically stil works, but the displays are out of alignment). This is from the 2600 on up to DC, GC, and PS2.

I'd really liek to know what barbarism you inflicted upon your SNES games that killed them.

[yellowlightman]

Not blaming Sega at all, just stating that I disagree with DC's postion as the last hardcore console.  Legacy support would be more favorable for such a mantle.

327872[/snapback]

And what would it be back-compatible with? The wildly successful Saturn? The incredibly popular SegaCD or 32x?

The "hardcore" appeal of back compatibility is limite dbecause anyone "hardcore" enough would already have those systems anyways.