quick ? about fixing old stuff and I go away

[kanata67]

I hate having two topics on the first page... but this is decidedly of a different nature than my army question. I am working on my repair web site and have done a fair bit on my own, but here is a situation I figured I better ask about before I tackle.

Here is the hypothetical situation...

Lets say an old guy spoiled the heck out of his kids in the 80's. Lets say the same guy was concerned about child safty so glued certain parts that may be damaged, or damage the children. Lets say that one of those safety mods was gluing the back plate and chest plate of a matchbox JM so that the toy is pretty but cannont transform.

Now lets say it is today, and by the the benifits of fate a hippie ended up with one of the JM's [hypothetically of course ] and is trying to make them fully transformable again. I have been scoring the glue, which looks similar to amber in it's dried 15+ year old state and is not they type of glue that melts plastic together, and have made slight progress in the seams but the parts "feel" no closer to seperation. I have been spraying "goo gone" on the affected area, having diss-assembled the JM to better work on the one area glued... hypothetically of course. There appear to be some parts besides the front seam that are affected, but as I have never had a functional JM I don't know what the parts look like in robot mode.

Does anybody know of a way to weaken/remove glue without damaging the plastic? I have already written off the decals as a loss as they seem to have been applied by a drunken deranged midget, again hypothetically, so soaking it in something is an option. Also, if anybody can provide transformation instructions on a JM so I know what should move and don't do anything stupid, it would be appreciated.

Can anyone give input on a way to do this simply to 8 JM's at once, again hypothetically?

Edited September 26, 2003 by kanata67

[BoBe-Patt]

hey kanata, I was wondering if you might have a spare left arm hindge for any JM. I need one to fix one of my JM's. Also if you have any vf-1s JM ears too. Let me know. thanx

[pfunk]

I hate having two topics on the first page... but this is decidedly of a different nature than my army question. I am working on my repair web site and have done a fair bit on my own, but here is a situation I figured I better ask about before I tackle.

Here is the hypothetical situation...

Lets say an old guy spoiled the heck out of his kids in the 80's. Lets say the same guy was concerned about child safty so glued certain parts that may be damaged, or damage the children. Lets say that one of those safety mods was gluing the back plate and chest plate of a matchbox JM so that the toy is pretty but cannont transform.

Now lets say it is today, and by the the benifits of fate a hippie ended up with one of the JM's [hypothetically of course ] and is trying to make them fully transformable again. I have been scoring the glue, which looks similar to amber in it's dried 15+ year old state and is not they type of glue that melts plastic together, and have made slight progress in the seams but the parts "feel" no closer to seperation. I have been spraying "goo gone" on the affected area, having diss-assembled the JM to better work on the one area glued... hypothetically of course. There appear to be some parts besides the front seam that are affected, but as I have never had a functional JM I don't know what the parts look like in robot mode.

Does anybody know of a way to weaken/remove glue without damaging the plastic? I have already written off the decals as a loss as they seem to have been applied by a drunken deranged midget, again hypothetically, so soaking it in something is an option. Also, if anybody can provide transformation instructions on a JM so I know what should move and don't do anything stupid, it would be appreciated.

Can anyone give input on a way to do this simply to 8 JM's at once, again hypothetically?

well 2 things, who was themean person who glued the toy, with super glue, it doesnt chemically change the material (or shouldnt) if its modeling cement, your screwed (or any glue that "melts" the plastic. For super glue, you can use nail polish remover, but 1st check to see on an unvisable area if it harms the plastic itself (i think it wont on ABS and a few others) and slowly but shurly work it into the joint.

2nd sounds like boobie-Pat is counting on you breaking it allready <_<

[Lynx7725]

Does anybody know of a way to weaken/remove glue without damaging the plastic? I have already written off the decals as a loss as they seem to have been applied by a drunken deranged midget, again hypothetically, so soaking it in something is an option. Also, if anybody can provide transformation instructions on a JM so I know what should move and don't do anything stupid, it would be appreciated.

Scoring is probably the best way to do so, actually, if you are very concerned about not damaging the plastic. Scoring a few times a day and keeping this up over a month.. well, if it doesn't break apart by then it probably never will.

If the glue is over a large area, perhaps you can try sanding away some of the dried glue carefully so that you need to score less? You probably would need to work the blade into the cracks between the seperating pieces as some of the glue probably seeped into the cracks.

You can try things like thinner or acetone by brush but you have to be very careful and apply a little at a time... the idea is to slowly dissolve the glue, iterative approach vs. big-bang approach. That thing took 15 years to reach that stage and you ain't going to reverse it in 5 mins or even 5 hours..

Not having a JM means I can't say much beyond this as I'm not familiar with the area you are describing -- perhaps a pic?

But chances are good that it's a write-off. If the glue worked its way into the joints, the first time you apply force to the joint may break the joint.. at which point you either write off the project or build a new joint.

Can anyone give input on a way to do this simply to 8 JM's at once, again hypothetically?

Now you're pushing it. 8 JMs in this condition.. well.

[EXO]

Now you're pushing it. 8 JMs in this condition.. well.

I say the old man hypothetic kick in the ass! No disrespect to the hypothetical sweet old man that was just looking out for his hypothitical kid, but if it was me he'd need a chemical solution to remove my foot from his rear.

[Myersjessee]

Let me just say (in defense of the hypothetical person who did this for his hypothetical son in this hypothetical situation) that there is someting to be said for having the parts. My dad made a pinhole in each of my star wars figures weapons and attached the weapon via fishing line to the charcters hand..(via another pinhole) It pissed me off at first, when I wanted Luke to disarm the stormtrooper and steal there blastter...and while he could, he could not go more then a foot from the trooper...years later...when all my friends didn't have one weapon left for their figures, and I still had all of mine, I appreciated it....surely glueing a JM so it can't transform is going to an extreme...but lets not be to harsh....In taking after my dad I have glued parts of my sons's Zoids...I try to leave them so he can customize them..but at the same time use enough glue, and metal pins so the main beast stays intact and functioning...let me tell you..it takes about 3Xs the amount of time to "Kid proof" them as it does to build them...but my son is 7..and hasn't lost a Zoid to damage yet!

Now...as for the glue....get some model seam knives....the ultra thin saws like WMCheng shows from Hasegawa to redo 1/72 scale seam lines....then.....I would suggest a pin vise and the seam saws to slowly...carefully free it up...work from the bottom...so if you mess up its less visible.

[JB0]

On the one hand...

As children's toys, those joke machines would be GONE now if they hadn't been glued. I broke one 3 times before we chunked it. Glued it back twice, then pitched it.

Specifically, the bars connecting the front and back fuselage were prone to failure. At least on my Max.

On the other hand...

What's the point of a non-transformable VF? I had a crisis when my dad was saying "We can fix it, but it won't be able to transform if we do. Whatever mode we fix it in it's stuck." It was like "But it's a TRANSFORMER! Can't you fix it RIGHT?"

...

Transformer, of course, being a generic term for any robot that changes, including GoBots, Robotech, and Voltron.

Anyways, that was repair #2. I picked "robot".

[Solscud007]

Xstoys should knwo this answer if the glue is cyanoacrylate. There is a solution that undoes super glue. but I dont what it is called. Its liek the exact opposite of Zip Kicker.

[EXO]

LOL, Jesse... I was just making light of the situation. At least Kana... er... this hypothetical boy has 8 JMs to work on. I saw them on the shelves as a kid and now I'm kicking myself for some other toys instead... Who knew these little stubby suckers whould end up meaning so much?

[ChristopherB]

Hello,

Yes, Solscud007 is correct. At most hobby stores you can find a bottle of clear liquid that will disolve Super Glue/CA. If you think about it, they had to make something because all of the people that end up at the emergency room with body parts glued together.

I have some in my shed and I will post the name as soon as I get a chance, but they usually keep it right next to the various CA glues they sell. It is not very expensive, and the amount they give you is more than enough.

Please be advised that you must use it very liberally because it can eat away at the plastic. It will quickly separate the parts, but I recommend you test it's application on a small inconspicous area before preceeding full bore.

Sincerely,

Christopher B)

PS: Not to be stereotypical, but I am sure that our hypothetical "hippie" will have no trouble only using a "liberal" amount of the CA remover, because by nature hippies/flower children are liberal "Make Love Not War" kind of people. As George Bush wisely said, "I am not part of the problem, I am a Republican."

Edited September 27, 2003 by ChristopherB

[kanata67]

On the one hand...

As children's toys, those joke machines would be GONE now if they hadn't been glued. I broke one 3 times before we chunked it. Glued it back twice, then pitched it.

Specifically, the bars connecting the front and back fuselage were prone to failure. At least on my Max.

On the other hand...

What's the point of a non-transformable VF? I had a crisis when my dad was saying "We can fix it, but it won't be able to transform if we do. Whatever mode we fix it in it's stuck." It was like "But it's a TRANSFORMER! Can't you fix it RIGHT?"

...

Transformer, of course, being a generic term for any robot that changes, including GoBots, Robotech, and Voltron.

Anyways, that was repair #2. I picked "robot".

Thankfully the little shoulder bars are intact and unbroken. They were removed along with the cockpit, legs, and tail section in an attempt to get to the one glued area. It looks like someone used glue along the top part of the chest plate and then pressed the part against the back plate in fighter mode. I've been using an exacto and repeated goo-gone sprays and seem to be making progress on the first one. I have a pin vice, but do not have a fret saw [the mini saw blade for exacto knives] as I can't find them anywhere and normally use a plubers pvc saw which is way to big for a job like this [it looks like a tiny hack saw]

Hypotetically I could post pics

I probably should check and see if the armor is glued in place as well... though I know that the boosters aren't glued.

[Myersjessee]

LOL, Jesse... I was just making light of the situation. At least Kana... er... this hypothetical boy has 8 JMs to work on. I saw them on the shelves as a kid and now I'm kicking myself for some other toys instead... Who knew these little stubby suckers whould end up meaning so much?

Dont mind me EXO...Im just a defensive dad!

[kanata67]

well... hypotetically the first one is done. A red milla back/chest plate was successfully seperated after many applications of "goo-gone" and repeated scribing with an exacto blade. Based on how much I make an hour and how many hours it took, I lost mad money on the deal . Detailed walk through of process will eventually make it to my site alone with all my other projects. I'm good about taking pics as I go but bad about getting around to resizing them so they are web friendly.

Naturally, being the hippie I am...

After successfully seperating the pices I decided to dip them in acetone based nail polish remover to speed up cleaning the remaining glue. Didn't make a damn difference with the glue but did turn all the exposed areas a nice shade of pink! DO NOT, under any circumstances, use acetone on a JM! I rinsed the part off quickly and was able to repair the damage I caused with repeated washes of red ink, but if I had let the parts stay a moment longer before rinsing them I doub't I would have been able to negate the damage. As is, it added about 5 hours of painting and buffing to the already "not worth my time" project. Hypothetically of course

I still could use any suggestions for how to speed up the proccess of glue removal without damaging the plastic... anyone?

[pfunk]

judging by the time you have into it (or will), itll be the most expensive part of your collection. AGH man I said in an earlier post to test a part of it (acetone is nail polish remover). If that doesnt dissolveit, nothing will that wont do damage to the plastic. I would try a light sanding to get the bulky parts off being careful not to sand the parts, when its thin enough, it MIGHT be able to be flaked off. One thing you might try is the glue manufacturer to see what dissolves thier product and what type of material your working with (ABS,PVC,ect,,,,,)

[kanata67]

judging by the time you have into it (or will), itll be the most expensive part of your collection. AGH man I said in an earlier post to test a part of it (acetone is nail polish remover). If that doesnt dissolveit, nothing will that wont do damage to the plastic. I would try a light sanding to get the bulky parts off being careful not to sand the parts, when its thin enough, it MIGHT be able to be flaked off. One thing you might try is the glue manufacturer to see what dissolves thier product and what type of material your working with (ABS,PVC,ect,,,,,)

If I had a clue what glue(s) were used I might be worth a shot. The glue on the milla was amberish and the glue on the max [my current exacto/patience project] is of a clear variety. I can't tell about the skull yet as it had less gaps than the max so got put off. I won't know about the others till tomorrow when they arrive [hypothetically as I don't like to jinx things ]The glue was also applied 15+ years ago so I don't even know if it's currently availible or what it might be.

At least I know wheat the parts I'm sanding should be like after getting the first one apart.

[kidkorrupt]

Xstoys should knwo this answer if the glue is cyanoacrylate. There is a solution that undoes super glue. but I dont what it is called. Its liek the exact opposite of Zip Kicker.

yeah, i saw i've seen it at a lot of hobby shops.

if it is this kind of super glue you are in luck

[Myersjessee]

or...trade a bunch of your stuff for a cutting laser....that would do it...and even if it didn't it would make for a cool series of pictures:

How I tried to free a JM with a Laser

This could spawn a whole series of How I tried to insert word a JM with a insert object

[Kaolian]

Have you tried freezing the poor lil thing for a day or two to see if the change in temperature when you thaw it back out loosens the glue any? Alternativly, a warm water bath for a few minutes amy also help. For the freezing method, just make sure the plastic doesn't get brittle.

You might also want to grab a large container of WD-40, pour some into a bowl and let the Joke Machine sit in it for a while and see if that helps any of the areas where you have already picked some of the glue out of. Make sure to test this first on a non exposed part to make sure the WD-40 doesn't eat the paint.

Alternativly, depending on how old the glue is and how flexible the plastic is, you can try the "felt and hammer" method. Find a small ball pean hammer, and a fairly thick piece of felt. Place the felt over the glued area, then strike gently with the hammer starting in the middle and working your way outwards. This takes a bit of practice, but you should be able to break up some of the glue without damaging the plastic.

That's all that I can think of at the moment. Hope that helps!

[kanata67]

hey kid... There is only one sad ass hobby store in town that caters to warhammer mini's. I took me two months to educate them on what a pin vice is before I could get one, so without an actual product name I'm SOL.

jesse... Just what I need... a laser . Actually, I have a bunch of lasers around as I needed to get a bunch back when I made individual lasers that attach to the fingers of my nintendo power glove and run off a single power supply so I can better mess with the minds of hippies at raves. Unfortunately the chance of going to a real rave around here is non-existant so another wonderfull creation gathers dust in my closet.

Kaolian... I have many years of various construction/demolition experience. I considered using a mini chipping hammer in the "hammer and felt" technique to losen it up, but due to the elasticity of the plastic it doesn't help. Works wonders on die cast stuff though. Freezing it seems like a damn good idea. Do I assume correctly that the plastic will only be brittle while still cold and will go back to normal tensile strength when returned to room temp? I have noticed that warming it in a cup of hot water helps a little [using hot water to rinse off multiple applications of goo-gone], do you think putting it in the freezer for a day and then immediately putting it in hot water would be of greater benifit?

[Kaolian]

The plastic will regain its normal tensile strength, and theoretically at least will do so faster than the glue will. Plus with the different material characteristics freezing, or even freezing then putting in hot water should cause the bonded surfaces to expand and contract away from the glue, at least a little. The only concern I could see with the freezing then heating quickly method would be splitting if the plastic is especially brittle. I'm not sure what kind of plastic it is made out of (yes, I am one of those sad individuals that have enver seen a joke machine up close). If it is standard injection molded toy plastic, that shouldn't be a problem.

[pfunk]

Freezing it seems like a damn good idea. Do I assume correctly that the plastic will only be brittle while still cold and will go back to normal tensile strength when returned to room temp? I have noticed that warming it in a cup of hot water helps a little [using hot water to rinse off multiple applications of goo-gone], do you think putting it in the freezer for a day and then immediately putting it in hot water would be of greater benifit?

That is a good idea, I bet the expansion rate of the glue is diferent then that of the plastic. I would freeze it, then warm up the stove to 200. as long as the surface temp doesnt reach over 300, it should be fine. Most unfilled plastics have a melting point of over 500 F

[jwinges]

If freezing in your freezer doesn't work you could try using dry Ice. To do so all you need is a cooler and something to seperate the ice from the toy (think metal grate like in the bottom of a charcoal grill. Seal the pale and it should lower the temp of your toy faster than a freezer. You might want to remove the canopy if possible.

Dry Ice freezes things very fast (not as fast a nitrogen gas but very fast) so fast that it can make a beer can sing (it starts to whistle because its cooling so fast) and remove hail damage from cars (rapid temp change pops out the dent).

If you get enough Dry Ice you should be able to freeze the toy in about 10-20 minutes. It'll freeze a can of beer solid after about 8 minutes.

Good luck

[pfunk]

CAREFULL, WHEN YOU DO, PLASTIC BECOMES VERY BRITTLE SUBZERO, Eopps caps lock............exspecially ABS or any styrine

[Commander McBride]

If nothing works out, you could always talk to Robhy and see if he can cast you replacments for the parts you need. I know he's casted doesens of whole JMs, so I think he'd probably do a few parts.

[kanata67]

well.. tis no longer hypothetical... I have four max, three milla, and one roy. All suffered the same fate back in the day with one of two types of glue it appears. Some were held tight in place while glued and others were not so tight making them more likely to be my early attempts. I managed to make a max transformable in far less time than the first one took, but a assembly line or all at once meathod would be prefered. Just where does one buy dri-ice??? Lord knows I get some odd chems here and there... wich makes me wonder... muriatic acid is stored in a plastic jug... a JM is plastic... would just the glue dissolve? I know chlorine would stain it. Pics as soon as I unbury my computer

[jwinges]

I always got dry Ice from Local beer distributorships (AB is my preference here) and grocery stores. More likely to find large amounts of dry ice in about a month (it won't be melted when it arrives).

good luck.

[kanata67]

I unburied my computer and was able to do productive stuff with my camera, including taking pics of my computer when it was buried... but thats for another post.

Here is what I have been going through... First off I diss-assembled what I could and put all the parts in a bag so I didn't lose them [real smart idea I should do more often ]

Three of them had their arms glued together in fighter mode, one still does as I haven't gotten to it yet but thats easy. I believe all of them with armor [the first milla I worked on had no leg armor] had the armor glued on with the exception of the boosters... thank god. All of them also had the back plate glued to the chest plate which prevents transformation. This last hurdle is wha you all have been helping me with. Here is a pic of the problem area removed from the rest of the parts...

[kanata67]

As I mentioned earlier... after many hours working with an exacto knife before I was able to seperate the pieces I decided to speed up cleaning the individual parts by diping them in acetone

[kanata67]

that resulted in more hours which left me with this...

[kanata67]

Thankfully the second one I took on was glued a lot less securely and I had little problems having already learned why not to use acetone. I will check around for dry ice as I am rapidly losing patience and I have a long way to go...