GI Joe Sigma 6

[lord_breetai]

(My apologies to Area7 for partly ripping off the format of the A7 Reviews).

Series Title: GI Joe Sigma 6

Animation Studio: Gonzo

Series Structure Writer: Masaki Wachi

Director: Kobun Shizuno

Character Designe/Animation Director: Tsutomu Miyazawa

US Distrobution: 4 Kids

I've been a huge fan of GI Joe for as long as I can remember, I used to rent the cartoon episodes all the time from the video store I had a huge collection of action figures and of course read the marvel comic book series avidly. My favorite characters were General Hawk, Storm Shadow, and Serpentor... GI Joe is a huge part of my childhood and and I still enjoy it today in the form of Devil's Due's comic book GI Joe America's Elite. So the question is how does the new Gonzo Anime Sigma 6 stand up in the eyes of a long time fan?

The series pilot has the GI Joe team in the arctic investigating a recent attack by the Cobra organization, the first since the capture Cobra Commander about a month before the series start, while Tunnel Rat and Heavy Duty are setting up a supply base in the amazon.

Story: The Joe team is quickly caught up in an elaborate chess game set up by Destro and the Baroness, which see's the destruction of the base and Duke forced into an ellaborate death trap... Of course with some team work he get's out in the end. We also see a short confrontation between Storm Shadow and the Joe Ninjas. This leads to the creation of the special secret Sigma 6 team (how this differs from the mainstream Joe team I'm unsure of)... and that's really all you can say about the plot in the first episode.

The opening theme at least in English is pretty horrible, it tries to copy the feel of the original theme from the Sunbow cartoon and fails horribly, though the sequence promises us the inclusion of many beloved Joes and Cobras (Zartan I noticed for one) down the road.

Really this episode served only to introduce the characters and it that took most of the half our slot so I'll go easy on the weak plot. 3/5

Animation: Hmm... I like a lot of Studio Gonzo's work but this takes some getting used to... the mix of CG/Anime particularly though it's a lot better then in the recent Transformers series. Some of the character designs take some getting used to especially for the female Joes Scarlet and Jinx (though by contrast The Baroness looks down right cool and Snake-eyes is very bad ass).

3/5

Characters:

Since this is GI Joe and they are dealing with beloved characters who've come through more then 20 years and each of them are Iconic I want to take a moment to discuss each one.

Joes:

Duke: Duke has always been the favorite commander for most fans, more so then Hawk (of course again my favorite for this role) he's a very hands on commander who gets right in the thick of things. This is true of Sigma 6's Duke, he's bang on... They gave him more muscles and a scar that make him less the pretty boy he was in the comics.

Snake-Eyes: Well for Snake-eyes actions have always spoken louder then words(As he's a mute), the slightly more angular style really accents Snake-eyes' mask in a way I've never really seen before. very nicely done.

Jinx: I'm not sure where Jinx being Snake-eye's apprentice came from all of a sudden. Jinx shows some promise but gone is the short haired Red (or black glad) Ninja we all remember her as... She's no very much the proper Kunoichi (female ninja) complete with trailing long braided pony tail. I wonder if they kept Jinx being Storm Shadow's cousin.

Kamakura: This is a relativly new character in GI Joe history, he was first introduced at the start of the Devil's Due run as Snake-eyes apprentice, he made his animated debut in GI Joe Valor Vs Venom... I have fears that he'll be drowned out as there is already too much going on in terms of Ninjas in this series, and might be left on the sidelines in favour of the more popular and established Arashikage warriors.

Scarlet: Scarlet's firey red hair has been replaced by a more subdued orange... she's now second in command of the Joe team (which is very interesting) and is a chopper pilot. I'm wondering if they'll have her romance with Snake-eyes (a staple of the comics) or what I thought was sometimes hinted at in the cartoon, a romance with Duke.

Tunnel-rat: They just made Tunnel-rat gross... in the original he was this short guy who could squeeze into tight places and was good with explosives... now he's skinny guy who can move like snake and eats bugs of the ground. ewww gross!

Heavy Duty: In the Devil's Due comics Roadblock asked Heavy Duty "What are you supposed to be my replacement?" And infact I'm not sure why they chose HD over RB for this series... especially cause it looks like they're making HD even more Roadblock like by making him a cook. Heavy Duty is the sterotypical big black guy.. lots of muscles! Oh yeah apparantly he has a phobia of mice now. I wish they had gone with the classic Roadblock character, I really do.

High-Tech: High Tech is the hacker/super-inventor guy who stays behind in the control room and helps the GI Joes whenever they run into a computer system that needs cracking. I would have chosen Mainframe (or the ultra cute Daemon) over High-tech but hey that's just me... Not a lot to say High-tech is hightech.

Cobras:

Destro: The Scheming Scottish Lord/Arm's dealer is incharge of Cobra during CC's absense. His creed is to always keep 6 moves ahead of his opponent. Destro here is very much the classic Destro... but his mask looks a little weird.

Baronness: Destro's partner in crime the Baroness Anastasia De'Cobray, is slightly more hands on then Destro but is still very cunning and Ruthless... those metal fingers they gave her make her look even more deadly.

Storm Shadow: Thomas Arashikage as usual is mainly out to get Revenge on his Sword Brother Snake-eyes. Nothing new to report here, though I always prefered Storm Shadow as a good guy... well at least he's back on the Joe's side in America's Elite.

B.A.T.s : The Battle Android Troopers make up the core of Cobra's shock troops, and serve the purpose they were originally intended for letting the TV joes actually shoot straight without causing actual bloodshed. In the comics this was unncessary and you would think that of a Japanese produced series too but they were probably under oders from Hasbro. Personally I woud prefer to see Viper's and Crimson Gaurdsmen... I mean what's a terroist group without fanatics who follow it's warped ideals?

I'm not going to rate the music or voice acting... they're passable but not great, more then you'd expect from 4Kids anyway.

So that leaves the premeir with an over all rank of 3/5... I'm deffinitly going to follow this series.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

(My apologies to Area7 for partly ripping off the format of the A7 Reviews).

Series Title: GI Joe Sigma 6

Animation Studio: Gonzo

Series Structure Writer: Masaki Wachi

Director: Kobun Shizuno

Character Designe/Animation Director: Tsutomu Miyazawa

US Distrobution: 4 Kids

I've been a huge fan of GI Joe for as long as I can remember, I used to rent the cartoon episodes all the time from the video store I had a huge collection of action figures and of course read the marvel comic book series avidly. My favorite characters were General Hawk, Storm Shadow, and Serpentor... GI Joe is a huge part of my childhood and and I still enjoy it today in the form of Devil's Due's comic book GI Joe America's Elite. So the question is how does the new Gonzo Anime Sigma 6 stand up in the eyes of a long time fan?

The series pilot has the GI Joe team in the arctic investigating a recent attack by the Cobra organization, the first since the capture Cobra Commander about a month before the series start, while Tunnel Rat and Heavy Duty are setting up a supply base in the amazon.

Story: The Joe team is quickly caught up in an elaborate chess game set up by Destro and the Baroness, which see's the destruction of the base and Duke forced into an ellaborate death trap... Of course with some team work he get's out in the end. We also see a short confrontation between Storm Shadow and the Joe Ninjas. This leads to the creation of the special secret Sigma 6 team (how this differs from the mainstream Joe team I'm unsure of)... and that's really all you can say about the plot in the first episode.

The opening theme at least in English is pretty horrible, it tries to copy the feel of the original theme from the Sunbow cartoon and fails horribly, though the sequence promises us the inclusion of many beloved Joes and Cobras (Zartan I noticed for one) down the road.

Really this episode served only to introduce the characters and it that took most of the half our slot so I'll go easy on the weak plot. 3/5

Animation: Hmm... I like a lot of Studio Gonzo's work but this takes some getting used to... the mix of CG/Anime particularly though it's a lot better then in the recent Transformers series. Some of the character designs take some getting used to especially for the female Joes Scarlet and Jinx (though by contrast The Baroness looks down right cool and Snake-eyes is very bad ass).

3/5

Characters:

Since this is GI Joe and they are dealing with beloved characters who've come through more then 20 years and each of them are Iconic I want to take a moment to discuss each one.

Joes:

Duke: Duke has always been the favorite commander for most fans, more so then Hawk (of course again my favorite for this role) he's a very hands on commander who gets right in the thick of things. This is true of Sigma 6's Duke, he's bang on... They gave him more muscles and a scar that make him less the pretty boy he was in the comics.

Snake-Eyes: Well for Snake-eyes actions have always spoken louder then words(As he's a mute), the slightly more angular style really accents Snake-eyes' mask in a way I've never really seen before. very nicely done.

Jinx: I'm not sure where Jinx being Snake-eye's apprentice came from all of a sudden. Jinx shows some promise but gone is the short haired Red (or black glad) Ninja we all remember her as... She's no very much the proper Kunoichi (female ninja) complete with trailing long braided pony tail. I wonder if they kept Jinx being Storm Shadow's cousin.

Kamakura: This is a relativly new character in GI Joe history, he was first introduced at the start of the Devil's Due run as Snake-eyes apprentice, he made his animated debut in GI Joe Valor Vs Venom... I have fears that he'll be drowned out as there is already too much going on in terms of Ninjas in this series, and might be left on the sidelines in favour of the more popular and established Arashikage warriors.

Scarlet: Scarlet's firey red hair has been replaced by a more subdued orange... she's now second in command of the Joe team (which is very interesting) and is a chopper pilot. I'm wondering if they'll have her romance with Snake-eyes (a staple of the comics) or what I thought was sometimes hinted at in the cartoon, a romance with Duke.

Tunnel-rat: They just made Tunnel-rat gross... in the original he was this short guy who could squeeze into tight places and was good with explosives... now he's skinny guy who can move like snake and eats bugs of the ground. ewww gross!

Heavy Duty: In the Devil's Due comics Roadblock asked Heavy Duty "What are you supposed to be my replacement?" And infact I'm not sure why they chose HD over RB for this series... especially cause it looks like they're making HD even more Roadblock like by making him a cook. Heavy Duty is the sterotypical big black guy.. lots of muscles! Oh yeah apparantly he has a phobia of mice now. I wish they had gone with the classic Roadblock character, I really do.

High-Tech: High Tech is the hacker/super-inventor guy who stays behind in the control room and helps the GI Joes whenever they run into a computer system that needs cracking. I would have chosen Mainframe (or the ultra cute Daemon) over High-tech but hey that's just me... Not a lot to say High-tech is hightech.

Cobras:

Destro: The Scheming Scottish Lord/Arm's dealer is incharge of Cobra during CC's absense. His creed is to always keep 6 moves ahead of his opponent. Destro here is very much the classic Destro... but his mask looks a little weird.

Baronness: Destro's partner in crime the Baroness Anastasia De'Cobray, is slightly more hands on then Destro but is still very cunning and Ruthless... those metal fingers they gave her make her look even more deadly.

Storm Shadow: Thomas Arashikage as usual is mainly out to get Revenge on his Sword Brother Snake-eyes. Nothing new to report here, though I always prefered Storm Shadow as a good guy... well at least he's back on the Joe's side in America's Elite.

B.A.T.s : The Battle Android Troopers make up the core of Cobra's shock troops, and serve the purpose they were originally intended for letting the TV joes actually shoot straight without causing actual bloodshed. In the comics this was unncessary and you would think that of a Japanese produced series too but they were probably under oders from Hasbro. Personally I woud prefer to see Viper's and Crimson Gaurdsmen... I mean what's a terroist group without fanatics who follow it's warped ideals?

I'm not going to rate the music or voice acting... they're passable but not great, more then you'd expect from 4Kids anyway.

So that leaves the premeir with an over all rank of 3/5... I'm deffinitly going to follow this series.

325674[/snapback]

Kamakura(Sean Collins) is the son of Wade Collin's(the imposter cobra commander, and a friend of Snake eyes and Storm Shadow back in Vietnam.......Kamakura is the one who sent Snake eyes a letter about joining the army back in the last marvel issue(issue #155?). Kamakura was not the first apprentice, the first apprentice was someone named Ophelia, but Firefly killed her in cold blood, and Sean took her place. *This is the premise of AE issue 3 where Snake eyes and Firefly fight)*...btw zartan and storm shadow are set to fight in AE 4 or 5....

[F-ZeroOne]

Animated by Gonzo? Hmm, imagine the cross-over potential:

"Yo, Joes! Lets all welcome the newest member to join us in the fight against the evil of COBRA. People, this is the Major... "

So, do pilots still leap out of exploding aircraft just barely in the nick of time then?

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Snake eyes was my fave gi joe. Does he use an uzi and get to cut people with a sword?

And I doubt people will actually die. This will lessen thier appeal as a toy.

[NSJ23]

So, do pilots still leap out of exploding aircraft just barely in the nick of time then?

Nah! they took care of that problem by making ALL of Cobra's Troops (at least in the first Ep) B.A.T.S. And B.A.T.S blow up real good.

Edited September 4, 2005 by NSJ23

[lord_breetai]

Kamakura(Sean Collins) is the son of Wade Collin's(the imposter cobra commander, and a friend of Snake eyes and Storm Shadow back in Vietnam.......Kamakura is the one who sent Snake eyes a letter about joining the army back in the last marvel issue(issue #155?).  Kamakura was not the first apprentice, the first apprentice was someone named Ophelia, but Firefly killed her in cold blood, and Sean took her place.  *This is the premise of AE issue 3 where Snake eyes and Firefly fight)*...btw zartan and storm shadow are set to fight in AE 4 or 5....

325715[/snapback]

Okay I missed the last issue of Marvel's run... that's interesting. And yeah I remember Ophelia but didn't think she was worth mentioning.

Still havn't picked up America's Elite #3 didn't know it was out yet.

So, do pilots still leap out of exploding aircraft just barely in the nick of time then?

Well if you want to see people die read the comics ^^;. That's all I have to say. There's still quite a bit of Deus Ex keeping some people alive but not nearly as much as the cartoon. and we certainly don't need to see vipers and crimson gaurdsmen (or even green shirt joes) eject they can die all they want too.

[Southpaw Samurai]

I think the whole Roadblock/Heavy Duty issue came out of Hasbro not maintaining the Roadblock name and losing it (sort of why you also have thinks like 'Autobot Jazz' and 'Hot Shot/Hot Rodimus' in the Transformers world. To me, HD has always seemed to be an inferior clone of RB. Literature is handled differently, which is why you can have both in the comics.

I'm gonna be in the VAST minority here I'm sure, but having grown up with Hama's 80's comics and file cards (although I enjoyed the cartoons), I have always had this extra sense of realism and how the Joes were relative to their time period. Because of that, everytime I see Duke these days, I'm thinking 'why do you keep getting younger? Shouldn't you be pushing sixty-something if you were kicking around in the military back in '67?' To me, a lot of the Joes' personalities came from their history and unlike the Transformers or other lines, you simply can't just change dates and keep their history intact. Are Stalker, S.E., S.S., and Wade Collins all vets of the first Gulf War now? Otherwise, they should be calling this new series: G.I.JOE: A REAL SEXAGENARIAN HERO!

It would've been a little dangerous, marketing-wise, but I sort of wish Hasbro at one point said, "Let's keep these guys historically grounded a bit. We'll keep some of the old guys around as mentors and superior officers, but let's bring in new blood." You can have Duke or Stalker still around as grizzled grey haired top dog sergeants who don't go out in the field much, but are still influential (heck, Hawk's just about the same age as Duke, so you can keep him as the overall head honcho general). You can maybe convince me that Snake-Eyes is capable of being active. You can take some of the older, later Joes like Tunnel-rat and make them the experienced vets. Then you work in new Joes.

I suppose Devil'sDue did try to throw some new blood in, but to me all their new characters were pretty sad: easily trite, stereotypical, and dull. Like we needed a new ninja...and then to name him after a region??? (anyone know which characters supposedly make up Kamakura's name? Maybe it actually makes sense, but I've tried some combinations and they mostly sound stupid in translation). And don't get me started on the computer kids....

[lord_breetai]

I think the whole Roadblock/Heavy Duty issue came out of Hasbro not maintaining the Roadblock name and losing it (sort of why you also have thinks like 'Autobot Jazz' and 'Hot Shot/Hot Rodimus' in the Transformers world. To me, HD has always seemed to be an inferior clone of RB. Literature is handled differently, which is why you can have both in the comics.

Huh intersting but they also lost the name General Hawk which is why he became Tomahawk and the Baroness which is why she became the Baroness Anastasia (and when a reader pointed out her name had been De'Cobray in the old comics she back the Baroness Anastasia De'Cobray)... and I think there was one more name they lost the rights too.. but I forget what.

And Devil's Due wasn't sure if they could keep them which is why they slightly changed the characters names.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I think the whole Roadblock/Heavy Duty issue came out of Hasbro not maintaining the Roadblock name and losing it (sort of why you also have thinks like 'Autobot Jazz' and 'Hot Shot/Hot Rodimus' in the Transformers world. To me, HD has always seemed to be an inferior clone of RB. Literature is handled differently, which is why you can have both in the comics.

I'm gonna be in the VAST minority here I'm sure, but having grown up with Hama's 80's comics and file cards (although I enjoyed the cartoons), I have always had this extra sense of realism and how the Joes were relative to their time period. Because of that, everytime I see Duke these days, I'm thinking 'why do you keep getting younger? Shouldn't you be pushing sixty-something if you were kicking around in the military back in '67?' To me, a lot of the Joes' personalities came from their history and unlike the Transformers or other lines, you simply can't just change dates and keep their history intact. Are Stalker, S.E., S.S., and Wade Collins all vets of the first Gulf War now? Otherwise, they should be calling this new series: G.I.JOE: A REAL SEXAGENARIAN HERO!

It would've been a little dangerous, marketing-wise, but I sort of wish Hasbro at one point said, "Let's keep these guys historically grounded a bit. We'll keep some of the old guys around as mentors and superior officers, but let's bring in new blood." You can have Duke or Stalker still around as grizzled grey haired top dog sergeants who don't go out in the field much, but are still influential (heck, Hawk's just about the same age as Duke, so you can keep him as the overall head honcho general). You can maybe convince me that Snake-Eyes is capable of being active. You can take some of the older, later Joes like Tunnel-rat and make them the experienced vets. Then you work in new Joes.

I suppose Devil'sDue did try to throw some new blood in, but to me all their new characters were pretty sad: easily trite, stereotypical, and dull. Like we needed a new ninja...and then to name him after a region??? (anyone know which characters supposedly make up Kamakura's name? Maybe it actually makes sense, but I've tried some combinations and they mostly sound stupid in translation). And don't get me started on the computer kids....

325845[/snapback]

What hasbro is doing with gijoe is the same as what they did with transformers, keeping the original character names, but making them different and adapting them for the new generation. Modernizing. However some characters get turned in a different direction in the process....like tunnel rat in S6 being a bishounen rather than a bad ass vietnam war like true tunnel rat.

I too, followed the Hamaverse and the 80s marvel comics. I definitely agree about the age thing. So far the comic does follow the marvel verse but the comic by DDP is not the "best". It was not Brandon Jerwa's wish to kill off Lady Jaye by the craptacular and overhyped red shadows, it was the plan of Josh Blaylock, owner of DDP.

To me there is not need to change what is not broken, and I do not care what any of these kids say about the new stuff, sure the in the modern storyline, things are different, but if you look at the filecards, even THOSE scream 80s hamaverse marvel run! There is no escaping the old stuff, and try as they may to revize everything, the filecards are very much like the old. Hell some of the new filecards are the same as the old ones with new art!

Kamakura's name does split into the japanese sylabuls and characters ka-ma-ku-ra. I think the sole reason for snake eyes getting him as an apprentice was that snake eyes, lets face it, is old. And storm shadow is getting old too, so DDP figured someone needed to carry the torch, one of the new generation(which...can be countered by the fact that there was a whole ninja force in the early 90s who are still used every now and then in the DDP books).

Bear in mind DDP does follow the marvel run...so snake eyes is definitely not the 30 yr old commando we thought he was. The best thing about kamakura is that he was the same guy who wrote snake eyes a letter that snake eyes responded to in the last marvel issue, #155. I thought that was a good tie in.

*Though I do admit, for a while I thought he was going to be revealed as nunchuk*

[lord_breetai]

What hasbro is doing with gijoe is the same as what they did with transformers, keeping the original character names, but making them different and adapting them for the new generation.  Modernizing.  However some characters get turned in a different direction in the process....like tunnel rat in S6 being a bishounen rather than a bad ass vietnam war like true tunnel rat.

Unless of course we're talking about Tunnel Rat from the movie in which there was no mention of him being a Vietnam vet... he was just a guy with an annoying voice who really didn't do anything.

Edit: I do like the DDP comics but Red Shadows wasn't very good... and man if that actually finnished off Serpentor I'll be pissed.

So far America's Elite's not that great but I'm gonna keep reading and see what they do with it.

Edited September 6, 2005 by lord_breetai

[Skull Leader]

Yeah, the raw-recruits in the movie didn't do much to advance the storyline in my eyes (although the scene with Law and Order was funny)

"I drive the car and he finds the bombs! We tried it the other way around, but it didn't work!"

[lord_breetai]

ACK! I just downloaded the video that comes with the GI Joe Ninja Battles playset. what was that? Storm Shadow thinks Snakeyes killed the Hardmaster? The Hardmaster is Storm Shadow's father instead of uncle? Man that was crap. I hope the anime isn't following that storyline (though it probably is).

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

ACK! I just downloaded the video that comes with the GI Joe Ninja Battles playset. what was that? Storm Shadow thinks Snakeyes killed the Hardmaster? The Hardmaster is Storm Shadow's father instead of uncle? Man that was crap.  I hope the anime isn't following that storyline (though it probably is).

326241[/snapback]

I actually doubt it man. To be honest, to make things even MORE confusing, Sigma 6 is in its own continuity altogethere OUTSIDE the toyline AND Hamaverse comics AND DDp stuff. Weird huh?(notice that tunnel rat in Sigma 6 is a teen where as in the gijoe 2002-2005 mass market relaunch, he was an adult).

Not to mention, ninja battles did not make the impact it was expected to make, otherwise the other assortments for it would have come out. I did love the figures in the box set, but that was about it, the storyline was so hacked.

Ninja battles was supposed to be more than just that 1 box set but that whole fake hiatus thing came about and it never made it out the way it was supposed to be. I hated the notion of storm shadow being made truly evil and all that crap. Like I said, if something ain't broken why fix it and break it in the process? The hard master story did not need any rewriting, it was good as it is, and the snake eyes and storm shadow back story of the 1980s can NOT be beat no matter how many times they may try to rewrite it.

I also think the Red shadows in the DDP comic were a big hype and complete waste of time. No need to kill Lady Jaye. The BEST thing about america elite is the artist, Stefano Casseli is pretty good IMHO, and I do like his work a lot more than Tim Seeley(Casseli did master and apprentice volume 1...and the art in there is exponentially better than the art in volume 2, which was done by a different artist).

Issues 5 and 6 should be GREAT.....storm shadow vs zartan. I also like how Casseli makes storm shadow always look pissed and mysterious, storm shadow rules lol.

Edited September 6, 2005 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0

[lord_breetai]

I know it's seperate I mean follow the conceptual ideas of Ninja Battles... I mean there is going to be some kinda origin for Stormshadow in the series... some reason why he works for Cobra and why he's got a big grudge against Snake-eyes... and I just hope it's nothing like that.

no it's really not that confusing.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Its just confusing how hasbro tries to have different origins for the characters. If sigma 6 deviates from the hamaverse and the short lived ninja battles series, then there will be 3 different origins.

I did not like the ninja battles origin at all. The hamaverse has a brewing jealousy develop over the fact that snake eyes, a guy who stormy saved in nam and only invited into the clan out of pity, ended up becoming the hard master's prized pupil. Even in the DDP master and apprentice volume II, this jealousy and grudge does not end until Snake eyes hands over a ceremonial sword and leadership of the Arashikage clan(and the remnants of the loyal red ninja) to Storm Shadow....Storm Shadow then becomes the Phoenix Master of the clan(originally the young master during training).

All I am saying is that hasbro should stick with the hamaverse/DDP thing rather than make new origins. Yea I understand the notion to modernize but their origin was already good and deep.

BTW did you guys see the figures yet? Sigma 6 snake eyes looks like its got a ton of playability potential and storm shadow looks cool too. The zartan line art looked awesome.

[Agent ONE]

Help computer

[lord_breetai]

I did not like the ninja battles origin at all.  The hamaverse has a brewing jealousy develop over the fact that snake eyes, a guy who stormy saved in nam and only invited into the clan out of pity, ended up becoming the hard master's prized pupil.  Even in the DDP master and apprentice volume II, this jealousy and grudge does not end until Snake eyes hands over a ceremonial sword and leadership of the Arashikage clan(and the remnants of the loyal red ninja) to Storm Shadow....Storm Shadow then becomes the Phoenix Master of the clan(originally the young master during training). 

326392[/snapback]

I disagree with your intepratation there. Storm Shadow's offer for Snake-eyes to join the "Family Buisness" were made before he saved Snake-eye's life, before Snake-eye's family was killed... before anything pitiable happened to Snake-eyes. He invited him because they grew a bound of freindship.

Havn't read teh M&A comics or the Declasified stuff yet.

Anyway I don't quite understand why the Joes distrust Storm Shadow so much... I mean he was brainwashed the second time he worked for Cobra and he more then worked off the first time (which was not without mitigating circumstances... True betraying your country so you can find out who murderd your uncle isn't exactly right... but it is understandable). I can't get why Jinx of all people seemed to hold stuch a deep hatred for her cousin in Arashikage Showdown... I mean he was under Dr. Mindbender's control... anything he did in the last few issues in Marvel and during the DDP run wasn't really his fault.

[lord_breetai]

I'm gonna be in the VAST minority here I'm sure, but having grown up with Hama's 80's comics and file cards (although I enjoyed the cartoons), I have always had this extra sense of realism and how the Joes were relative to their time period. Because of that, everytime I see Duke these days, I'm thinking 'why do you keep getting younger? Shouldn't you be pushing sixty-something if you were kicking around in the military back in '67?' To me, a lot of the Joes' personalities came from their history and unlike the Transformers or other lines, you simply can't just change dates and keep their history intact. Are Stalker, S.E., S.S., and Wade Collins all vets of the first Gulf War now? Otherwise, they should be calling this new series: G.I.JOE: A REAL SEXAGENARIAN HERO!

It would've been a little dangerous, marketing-wise, but I sort of wish Hasbro at one point said, "Let's keep these guys historically grounded a bit. We'll keep some of the old guys around as mentors and superior officers, but let's bring in new blood." You can have Duke or Stalker still around as grizzled grey haired top dog sergeants who don't go out in the field much, but are still influential (heck, Hawk's just about the same age as Duke, so you can keep him as the overall head honcho general). You can maybe convince me that Snake-Eyes is capable of being active. You can take some of the older, later Joes like Tunnel-rat and make them the experienced vets. Then you work in new Joes.

325845[/snapback]

Sorry for the double post here... but thinking about what you said... you're talking about Sgt Savage and the Screaming Eagles. New Joes brought in... Cobra Commander was still there as he had a short lived Arm's deal with the bad guys... new Joes and Hawk, Lady Jaye and Doc were command staff. Only one episode made wich came with the figure and stuff... and yeah the main character was a Captain America ripp off! but still it had that whole passing the tourch idea.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I did not like the ninja battles origin at all.  The hamaverse has a brewing jealousy develop over the fact that snake eyes, a guy who stormy saved in nam and only invited into the clan out of pity, ended up becoming the hard master's prized pupil.  Even in the DDP master and apprentice volume II, this jealousy and grudge does not end until Snake eyes hands over a ceremonial sword and leadership of the Arashikage clan(and the remnants of the loyal red ninja) to Storm Shadow....Storm Shadow then becomes the Phoenix Master of the clan(originally the young master during training). 

326392[/snapback]

I disagree with your intepratation there. Storm Shadow's offer for Snake-eyes to join the "Family Buisness" were made before he saved Snake-eye's life, before Snake-eye's family was killed... before anything pitiable happened to Snake-eyes. He invited him because they grew a bound of freindship.

Havn't read teh M&A comics or the Declasified stuff yet.

Anyway I don't quite understand why the Joes distrust Storm Shadow so much... I mean he was brainwashed the second time he worked for Cobra and he more then worked off the first time (which was not without mitigating circumstances... True betraying your country so you can find out who murderd your uncle isn't exactly right... but it is understandable). I can't get why Jinx of all people seemed to hold stuch a deep hatred for her cousin in Arashikage Showdown... I mean he was under Dr. Mindbender's control... anything he did in the last few issues in Marvel and during the DDP run wasn't really his fault.

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Arashikage showdown is outside of the original continuity...I am not sure if it follows ninja battles but it was aimed at the kids. Ninja battles is out of the original continuity too.

About the joes being mad at storm shadow. Some of them find it hard to brush off the fact that he used to be one of the leading cobras. And came back to them. Yea he was brainwashed, but the issue 21 of the DDP series(an homage to marvel's issue 21), was drawn by Mike Zeck with no word panels, in this Storm Shadow finally breaks free from the brainwashing, but in the end, stops Snake eyes from attacking cobra commander, and walks away with cobra commander rather than with Snake eyes, Kamakura, and Billy, whose help he sought out to begin with in issue 19 or 20 of the DDP run. Bear in mind this is of his own volition at that point.

Are you sure about Storm Shadow making the offer for the family business before the whole drama begins with Snake eyes? This is what I got from the gijoe comics homepage:

Snake-Eyes' injuries got him sent back to the United States. When he arrived at the local airport, his parents and sister were nowhere to be found. After hours of waiting, was met by a young army officer named Clayton "Hawk" Abernathy. Hawk told him the tragic news: his parents and sister had been killed in a car wreck just hours before. Devastated, Snake-Eyes travelled the world for a short time before reaching Japan. Storm Shadow had offered him a position in the "family business." That "business" was in fact a ninja clan.....(From the SE profile)

    Tommy was serving on Long Range Recon Patrol (LRRP) with Snake-Eyes and Stalker in the jungles of Vietnam, accompanied by three other soldiers: Wade Collins, Ramon Escobedo and Dick Saperstein. The group stumbled upon an encampment of North Vietnamese soldiers and a firefight ensued. Collins, Saperstein and Escobedo were all believed killed in the attack. Snake-Eyes, Stalker and Tommy all retreated to a landing zone for rescue. As the three soldiers ran across a field toward the extraction chopper, they were fired upon. Snake-Eyes was hit badly and Stalker ordered Tommy to leave him. Tommy refused, running back to save his friend and to Stalker's amazement, he evaded all enemy fire and retrieved Snake-Eyes and the photo of his sister that was so important to him. Recovering from his injuries, Snake-Eyes was sent home only to find his family had died in a car wreck, on their way to meet him.(from SS profile)

So not only this, but when I read the issues in which all this happened, the offer only happens after Snake eyes' family is killed in the wreck, and that happened after he was saved by Storm Shadow back in nam(Snake Eyes was sent home since he got injured).

As said before, the DDP main run, Gijoe/America Elite/Master and apprentice, follows the "original continuity".*Original meaning the marvel/hamaverse run*. Gijoe:Reloaded, Arashikage Showdown, and Ninja battles are all SEPERATE continuities! Frontline is the only other joe title that tied into the hamaverse and the first issues were even written by Hama.

So even if Jinx hates stormy in arashikage showdown, in the *original continuity*,(as evidenced by master and apprentice vol II), they get along JUST fine. In fact, Jinx is one of the first to aid Storm Shadow in M/A II, and their interaction does not show any signs of animosity.

Edited September 8, 2005 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0

[lord_breetai]

I know Ninja Battles is outside the original continuity where did I say it was not.

Arashikage showdown was ment to appeal to the anime crowd... And deffinitly ties in more with the DDP cont. then with the Ninja battles, and did you read it? it wasn't exactly kid friendly... unless lots of death and a guy pissing himself cause he's so scared the Arashikage are going to mow him down too is typical child's fare.

And I'm certain in the original comics when Stalker, Hawk and Scarlett are trying to piece together Snake-eyes and Strom Shadow's story (meanwhile Snake-eyes his with the Softmaster). Stalker mentions that Storm Shadow offered Snake-eyes a place in the family buisness before, his tour of duty ends.

As said before, the DDP main run, Gijoe/America Elite/Master and apprentice, follows the "original continuity".*Original meaning the marvel/hamaverse run*. Gijoe:Reloaded, Arashikage Showdown, and Ninja battles are all SEPERATE continuities! Frontline is the only other joe title that tied into the hamaverse and the first issues were even written by Hama.

Umm where did I say it was otherwise I know all this... Although I see nothing in Arashikage Showdown that disqualifies it other then the fact that Jinx is off the team and acting as a mercenary. Where did I clame that GI Joe Reloaded and Ninja Battles or the 3D cartoons or Sigma 6 are original continuity? Cause I know full well they are not.

oh and you forgot Snake-Eyes declasfied.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I know Ninja Battles is outside the original continuity where did I say it was not.

Arashikage showdown was ment to appeal to the anime crowd...  And deffinitly ties in more with the DDP cont. then with the Ninja battles, and did you read it? it wasn't exactly kid friendly... unless lots of death and a guy pissing himself cause he's so scared the Arashikage are going to mow him down too is typical child's fare.

And I'm certain in the original comics when Stalker, Hawk and Scarlett are trying to piece together Snake-eyes and Strom Shadow's story (meanwhile Snake-eyes his with the Softmaster). Stalker mentions that Storm Shadow offered Snake-eyes a place in the family buisness before, his tour of duty ends.

As said before, the DDP main run, Gijoe/America Elite/Master and apprentice, follows the "original continuity".*Original meaning the marvel/hamaverse run*. Gijoe:Reloaded, Arashikage Showdown, and Ninja battles are all SEPERATE continuities! Frontline is the only other joe title that tied into the hamaverse and the first issues were even written by Hama.

Umm where did I say it was otherwise I know all this... Although I see nothing in Arashikage Showdown that disqualifies it other then the fact that Jinx is off the team and acting as a mercenary. Where did I clame that GI Joe Reloaded and Ninja Battles or the 3D cartoons or Sigma 6 are original continuity? Cause I know full well they are not.

oh and you forgot Snake-Eyes declasfied.

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I never said you didn't know, I just clarified in case anyone would ask. Declassified ties into the normal continuity with DDP which in turn ties into the hamaverse. I know issue 1 of Decalssified is a retelling of one of the old hama book backstories. However since it has been pointed out to Brandon Jerwa and DDP that Snake eyes would be around his 50s or 60s now if they are dealing with the vietnam backstory, Jerwa wrote declassified#1 to make it take place in a "south east asian country", not exactly naming it vietnam as to leave it open to the readers opinion what time it takes place.

I did preview some pages of Arashikage showdown, and in comparison with the main title DDP was putting out, it definitely seemed marketed to the 7-12 yr olds cruising for a mangafied gijoe fix.

[lord_breetai]

Well some pages... the whole thing dosn't exactly seem kiddy to me... yeah the first couple pages would kinda give that impression though. I'm not overly fond of Arashikage Showdown, but I don't think it's fair to say it's kiddie or dismiss it without reading it.

Oh and in the Silent issue did you miss the part where... A) Storm Shadow had not completely broken free of the Scanner yet and needed Snake-eyes to preform the mindset? or B) that Cobra Commander brought along a portable scanner and just gave Tommy another dose? So his actions there shouldn't add to the Joe's fears towards them...

To me their mistrust of Storm Shadow was unjustified. (But then again, he is one of my favorite characters so that might just be me).

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Well some pages... the whole thing dosn't exactly seem kiddy to me... yeah the first couple pages would kinda give that impression though. I'm not overly fond of Arashikage Showdown, but I don't think it's fair to say it's kiddie or dismiss it without reading it.

Oh and in the Silent issue did you miss the part where... A) Storm Shadow had not completely broken free of the Scanner yet and needed Snake-eyes to preform the mindset? or B) that Cobra Commander brought along a portable scanner and just gave Tommy another dose? So his actions there shouldn't add to the Joe's fears towards them...

To me their mistrust of Storm Shadow was unjustified. (But then again, he is one of my favorite characters so that might just be me).

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I kinda feel the same way, I mean he did make it their way on his own volition. But in that mike zeck issue, by the time they do reach the end, storm shadow was already broken free, and pretty much went with cobra commander. The reason shipwreck and some of the others are afraid of him is basically because he was also one of the deadliest cobras.

In master and apprentice II, its a whole internal struggle of his. Basically the brainwashing is worn off but the past is what he pretty much fights against. Even at the end he kind of blames Snake eyes for things but when snake eyes presents the ceremonial sword and hands over the arashikage clan leadership and the remaining 6 red ninjas, all is well.

BTW guys, the sigma 6 figures are out, they aren't everyones cup of tea but I hear they are very fun to play with.

At that point he is truly free from the demons of his past.

[lord_breetai]

I guess I'll have to see if I can pick up Master and Apprentice II, I didn't think number 1 was all that great but number 2 sounds more interesting.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I guess I'll have to see if I can pick up Master and Apprentice II, I didn't think number 1 was all that great but number 2 sounds more interesting.

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In my opinion, master and Apprentice 1 had way better art, its drawn by Stefano Casseli who is drawing America Elite. II was drawn by a team who draw in a pseudo manga style with colors by Udon. II was definitely lacking in art.

The whole point of II was for Storm Shadow to free himself from his inner demons and from cobra(since at that point, he wanted out of cobra but cobra commander wasn't willing to let go of him alive).

He finds a love interest, it becomes a decision whether he lives or she lives, stuff happens, and in the end he is given leadership of the arashikage and goes to the good side.

The whole underlying theme is him basically going good. I thought master and apprentice I was done a lot better in story as well, the life or death love struggle is ciiche, but it served its purpose in II i guess...

If I were you, I would just skim through M/A II, I only bought it because it was storm shadow, other than that, MA I has the superior art and storyline.

[lord_breetai]

Well you have me on the "It's Storm Shadow..." You know he is one of my two favorite members of the Joe team and one of my two favorite Cobras... all in all one of my three favorite characters ^^.

I only read the first issue of MA I and didn't think much of it but... you know cliche or not MA II sounds interesting.

Anyways reading the bios on the 4Kids Website... sounds like the origin for Snake-eyes and Strom Shadow is going to be a lot different. Here's Snake-eye's bio.

"SNAKE EYES spent his youth studying with masters of over thirty martial arts forms. He began his covert ops work in a mainstream intillgence division and was quickly spotted because of his mastery of ninja disciplines and his uncanny ability to move undetected. He was the most sought after operative for missions that required someone who could infiltrate secured areas that no one else had ever been able to access. During one misson, he used his specific knowledge to join a powerful ninja security force and get inside the compound of a deadly gang. He was chosen for the Sigma 6 team for his superior martial arts skills and knowledge of ninja organizations."

Honestly this bio just sounds stupid... and I'm not sure how much if reflects the actual show... but yeah... if he studied martial arts as a kid then became a spy... it's quite a bit different from any incarnation of Snake-eyes we already know ^^.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Well you have me on the "It's Storm Shadow..." You know he is one of my two favorite members of the Joe team and one of my two favorite Cobras... all in all one of my three favorite characters ^^.

I only read the first issue of MA I and didn't think much of it but... you know cliche or not MA II sounds interesting.

Anyways reading the bios on the 4Kids Website... sounds like the origin for Snake-eyes and Strom Shadow is going to be a lot different. Here's Snake-eye's bio.

"SNAKE EYES spent his youth studying with masters of over thirty martial arts forms. He began his covert ops work in a mainstream intillgence division and was quickly spotted because of his mastery of ninja disciplines and his uncanny ability to move undetected. He was the most sought after operative for missions that required someone who could infiltrate secured areas that no one else had ever been able to access. During one misson, he used his specific knowledge to join a powerful ninja security force and get inside the compound of a deadly gang. He was chosen for the Sigma 6 team for his superior martial arts skills and knowledge of ninja organizations."

Honestly this bio just sounds stupid... and I'm not sure how much if reflects the actual show... but yeah... if he studied martial arts as a kid then became a spy... it's quite a bit different from any incarnation of Snake-eyes we already know ^^.

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The whole reason I was unimpressed by MA II until the end was the fact that it seemed so unoriginal....ya know the whole thing about one has to live, one has to die, and both love each other. Either way it served the purpose of bringing storm shadow back to the good side...I just thought it could have been done a lot better. The art could have been a hell of a lot better. I felt the story of MA I had a good number of twists and turns, and a spark of originality that was not seen in MA II. The ending to MA II IMHO was definitely a lot better than I's, but the majority of the story was not.

And Storm Shadow is my favorite gijoe/cobra of all time, I always was able to relate to his story and felt he got overlooked way too muchin favor of Snake eyes(which is one of the reasons I did not like snake eyes till I got older and realized he was a much deeper character than the mute ninja I saw in the cartoon).

So thats the only reason I bought MA II....him fighting Junko, who didn't see that coming? What I didn't see coming was snake eyes handing over leadership to Storm Shadow....and Snake eyes finally stepping down as a arashikage clan leader. When THAT happened, I finally felt that Storm Shadow had finally gotten what was rightfuly his to begin with, and snake eyes redeemed himself more as a character I like a lot more now.

I agree about the bio for Sigma 6 snake eyes....they kind of make him sound like firefly in a way. I wish it would be more like the hamaverse snake eyes but oh well.

Either way, in the preview episode, storm shadow kicked snake eyes off a mountain....so I was pretty happy.

[lord_breetai]

And Storm Shadow is my favorite gijoe/cobra of all time, I always was able to relate to his story and felt he got overlooked way too muchin favor of Snake eyes(which is one of the reasons I did not like snake eyes till I got older and realized he was a much deeper character than the mute ninja I saw in the cartoon).

So thats the only reason I bought MA II....him fighting Junko, who didn't see that coming?  What I didn't see coming was snake eyes handing over leadership to Storm Shadow....and Snake eyes finally stepping down as a arashikage clan leader.  When THAT happened, I finally felt that Storm Shadow had finally gotten what was rightfuly his to begin with, and snake eyes redeemed himself more as a character I like a lot more now.

I agree about the bio for Sigma 6 snake eyes....they kind of make him sound like firefly in a way.  I wish it would be more like the hamaverse snake eyes but oh well.

Either way, in the preview episode, storm shadow kicked snake eyes off a mountain....so I was pretty happy.

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Oh he's probably my favorite too ^^. But Hawk and Serpentor come in as close seconds. Yeah there's a lot to Snake-eyes but I still think he's slightly over-rated.

Yes the mountain thing was cool.

But last time Storm Shadow was good, when he was in command of the Ninja force wasn't he at that time also leader of the clan?

Honestly I wouldn't expect anything less then Storm Shadow leading the clan as he and Jinx are the only blood members of the clan on the team.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

And Storm Shadow is my favorite gijoe/cobra of all time, I always was able to relate to his story and felt he got overlooked way too muchin favor of Snake eyes(which is one of the reasons I did not like snake eyes till I got older and realized he was a much deeper character than the mute ninja I saw in the cartoon).

So thats the only reason I bought MA II....him fighting Junko, who didn't see that coming?  What I didn't see coming was snake eyes handing over leadership to Storm Shadow....and Snake eyes finally stepping down as a arashikage clan leader.  When THAT happened, I finally felt that Storm Shadow had finally gotten what was rightfuly his to begin with, and snake eyes redeemed himself more as a character I like a lot more now.

I agree about the bio for Sigma 6 snake eyes....they kind of make him sound like firefly in a way.  I wish it would be more like the hamaverse snake eyes but oh well.

Either way, in the preview episode, storm shadow kicked snake eyes off a mountain....so I was pretty happy.

327181[/snapback]

Oh he's probably my favorite too ^^. But Hawk and Serpentor come in as close seconds. Yeah there's a lot to Snake-eyes but I still think he's slightly over-rated.

Yes the mountain thing was cool.

But last time Storm Shadow was good, when he was in command of the Ninja force wasn't he at that time also leader of the clan?

Honestly I wouldn't expect anything less then Storm Shadow leading the clan as he and Jinx are the only blood members of the clan on the team.

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Now that I am not sure. I know that it wasn't until now that some of the red ninjas became good. And they comprised a good number of the clan.

\I never though of that....not really sure if he was leader of the clan during his command of ninja force. But perhaps he was...because I do know control did shift over to snake eyes...but this was back and forth. The red ninjas were under sei tin for some time, then under tbang, and then snake eyes an d 6 loyal red ninja got rid of sei tin.(this is in MA II).

Funny thing is, kamakura in the comic is similar to Nunchuk(back when nunchuk showed up as storm shadows prized student during the ninja force days).

Budo and Tbang help out every once in a while now, and Budo is dating Jinx. I think Snake eyes led the clan until storm shadow finally went back with the joes...at that point Storm Shadow assumed the position as the reitful heir to the clan. In some way I think snake eyes was just temporary....just holding on until he could save his friend.

And I definitely agree snake eyes is overrated...my favorite comics were the ones where he barely did any ninja stuff and was just a straight up commando...like the first time they encountered Kwin.

I like hawk and Ace as well.

[doodler7]

i've always been interested in getting one of these dragonhawk from the GI JOE Sigma 6 line. so after some time of seeing the price go from $39.99 USD to $19.99 USD, i finally cracked and bought one from toys r us.

i actually passed up an optimus prime movie version for this...wth?

so i opened it up and put the pieces together, this toy is not too shabby. i'm thinking about doing some air brush work and panel lines, and hiding the neon parts.

for $20...this toy is not that bad. it's about 23 cm tall, 46 cm wide, and about 62 cm long from the tip of the mini gun to the tail fin.

carrying the toy may be a bit too heavy for a 5 or 6 year old during play time, but it sure does spark the imagination!

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