Macross and Robotech.

[Ishimaru]

I dunno if ya guys like Robotech and Macross at the same time to think Robotech is crap and everything. But what exactly do you think of Macross and Robotech and do you even like either of them or both. I still like Robotech on how a new series is being created and its pretty nice, but I still love Macross and yah...So what do ya guys think?

[Hurin]

There are no words. . .

[farmer_yohei]

Ooooooo...this is gonna be bad

[Godzilla]

Ooooooo...this is gonna be bad

324856[/snapback]

As the grunts in HALO say when you throw a plasma grenade on them: "VERY BAD THINGS! VERY BAD THINGS!"

[azrael]

I sense a disturbance in the Force....

[JB0]

Ooooooo...this is gonna be bad

324856[/snapback]

As the grunts in HALO say when you throw a plasma grenade on them: "VERY BAD THINGS! VERY BAD THINGS!"

324857[/snapback]

HAHA!

But yeah... this smells of more napalm than a Mac7 thread.

[armentage]

Personally...

I think both Macross (orig TV & Movie) & Robotech BOTH have very juvenile, silly plots.

That doesn't change the fact that I like them both a lot...

[Agent ONE]

Hey Dean, I appologise for the guys on this forum.. Even though its obvious that you haven't read much of Macross World's threads on the subject, they are just being mean. One thing to remember about Macross World is that Agent ONE is the nice guy around here.

I will always think Macross is lightyears better than Robotech for a whole host of reasons, but that doesn't mean that the sequel to Robotech won't be good. I am going to give the new show a chance before I place judgement.

[nightmareB4macross]

Hey Dean, I appologise for the guys on this forum.. Even though its obvious that you haven't read much of Macross World's threads on the subject, they are just being mean.  One thing to remember about Macross World is that Agent ONE is the nice guy around here.

I will always think Macross is lightyears better than Robotech for a whole host of reasons, but that doesn't mean that the sequel to Robotech won't be good.  I am going to give the new show a chance before I place judgement.

324875[/snapback]

Awe, that's sweet. From what you just wrote, I think I saw a heart beating in the chest of your avatar.

Edited August 31, 2005 by nightmareB4macross

[Noyhauser]

I sense a disturbance in the Force....

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as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror....

[kanedaestes]

I honestly think that there is a lot of unnecessary hate towards robotech. It may mot be better than macross, but can we truly hate a show that without it most of us would have never known what macross is? I have just seen the original macross series for the first time last year, and its great but u love robotech too, that was the gateway, the beginning. For instance I don't like the military, but I will love and respect it for giving me the chance to learn video, directing and editing and everything I need to know about making a film. If it weren't for robotech I wouldn't be in this forum. Yes I have the dvds, games, and soundtrack and books, because I can still remember that feeling I got as a kid when I first saw max's vf-1j, or when rick finally got the skull. I still love the music causes that's my childhood, and despite what most of u say or think its true for u to, macross is better, and my life, but robotech is still important to me. That's my two cents

[Legend of TSXer]

Obviously Macross is going to be better. Robotech was good and I still appreciate it. Music and voices are still very clear in my memory. Maybe alot of the hate towards Robotech is due to how HG acts toards Macross. Ohh well...

[JB0]

Obviously Macross is going to be better. Robotech was good and I still appreciate it. Music and voices are still very clear in my memory. Maybe alot of the hate towards Robotech is due to how HG acts toards Macross.    Ohh well...

324898[/snapback]

I think that's where most of the outright hate comes from.

Otherwise it'd just be another forgettable hackjob from an era full of them.

[Pat Payne]

OK, and the punchline is?

[JB0]

IMHO, I think it still boils down to how old you were when you were first exposed to either series and which series you were exposed to first.

I don't fit your case(grew up on Robotech, dislike it now), so ...

For the guys who don't like Robotech, its like saying you love the NFL but you hate the beer commercials you have to wade through to watch Peyton Manning destroy other teams. Well you need one to support the other. Without Robotech, and the US fanbase it created for Macross, we might have never seen the later series like Plus and Zero, we certainly might not have seen the wave of valk toys in the last five years.

You mean the animation and toys that can't be released in the US because every time someone tries to Harmony Gold raises hell? Riiight.

Without Robotech, everyone here would still be scrapping for old ExoSquad Destroids and halfbroken Jetfires on Ebay.

Why would we be looking for Robotech-branded Exosquad toys if Robotech never existed?

So which should people watch? For adults and young adults, I think Macross is a better choice. But for younger kids and those who haven't been exposed to anime in any form, I think Robotech is a good starter series.

I don't see anything that makes Robotech the better choice for any age level.

I could read well enough when I was 5. But this wouldn't be an issue, except that Harmony Gold refused to let anyone dub the original programs.

Yes, Robotech is the ugly stepchild, the farting beer commercial in the grand scheme of things. But those beer commercials are keeping the rest of us Macross fans in business, its keeping the series salient so we can see new dvds, series and good merch.

Again, I don't see how.

I see HG brandishing Robotech, using it as a sword to defend it's market from the evil japanese merchandise that, lacking an accessable american market of any sort, is targeted primarly at japanese consumers.

[Myriad]

Both suck and are overrated..........

Gilligan's Planet was the only decent show to come out of the early to mid 80's......

http://www.gilligansisle.com/planet.html

Edited September 1, 2005 by Myriad

[jenius]

I like how HG gets villified and RT gets hated on because of it. I really do just enjoy the drama it creates. It's kinda like the really Christian guy who cuts you off on his way to church. All these people raise a stink about all these legal problems but if they had their hand in a pocket full of money I wonder how many would gladly pull it out to let other people reach in and take it? The whole "i can't buy my toys" thing should be moot anyway since we all own the toys anyway and it's EVERYONE's fault there's a legal problem here.

As far as the shows go, they all have their good parts and their problems. I mean, Robotech has The Masters saga and Macross has Macross7...

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Saw Robotech back in 1986 when I was ten years old.

The good thing about it is that it introduced me to Macross and Mospeada, my all time favorite series.

The original series are far superior but I still like robotech, it brings me good memories.

[promethuem5]

One thing to remember about Macross World is that Agent ONE is the nice guy around here.

Best line of the day guys!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I liked robotech and would still watch it. I still prefer macross because I like the original story much more.

But if you were an 80s kid and did not see macross because you could not access it due to the lack of channels that we have today, then yeah, rated by itself robotech was good.

The thing that drew me right in were:

-the mecha designs (they transform but unlike the transformers they are mass produced and use thier modes in psuedo realistic ways)

-the story is progressive (unlike most cartoons things were not wrapped up in 30 mins, so you just had to watch each episode so you wouldn't miss the story)

-scale of the series (spanning 3 wars - most kids would not have known they were 3 seperate series)

-death (people dying meant there was a sense of realism apart from other cartoons. The show was aimed towards teens and had more serious themes than other cartoons)

-anime was not as mainstream back then as it is now. (pre-akira days) Even though astroboy and speed racer and other came before robotech, people (well ones I hang around with) did not try to think of these as anime in the sense that they wanted to differentiate between western made cartoons - usually only aimed at children - and japanese animation. (varying ages and lots of it not suitable for children)

So by saying it is good because people had nothing else to choose from is true, but as time goes on, people's attitudes change. (I would not bother watching G1 transformers cartoons today even for nostalgia reasons)

One thing I do remember though was that as a kid I thought minmay's songs were funny. Can anyone remember the lyrics to all the songs and post them? I want to sing them in the shower because it brings back the memories i had of the show.

Also another thing I remember back when I was a kid: I was so hoping that transformable toys were going to be made of the alpha and beta fighters and was pissed off that none were ever made! I loved thier mecha designs as much back then as today. Too bad the ones made today are overpriced and fall apart.

When as a kid I learnt that robotech was just 3 different series melded into one and with 1 unifying story I wasn't angry or anything, but it sparked my curiosity for the real thing. And by the time I saw DYRL I was amazed at the level of animation quality which made me want to see other anime. I also remember series like 80s bubblegum crisis and stuff and had tapes of these. (I loved the dark approach to that old series. Too bad again that toys of the various mecha were not able to be bought)

One thing robotech had going for it was the music for the battle scenes. I liked those, but apart from that I would tell all children to see macross instead since robotech and macross are different things anyway so comparing them is a bit silly.

I believe the two could co-exist but I hope this doesn't prevent fans of the originals from getting toys and stuff without hassle.. (ie does HG actually send out C&D letters to sellers of macross stuff threatening them? If true then they shouldn't expect any kind of sympathy so why are robotech fans helping them prevent us from getting acess to macross toys? I don't get it - we should be grateful that someone is trying to limit the choices of fans of both series??)

As much as fans of robotech accuse of a lot of macross people for "not being grateful that if it were not for robotech you might not even have gotten to know macross..." I say to that: "if it were not for macross, robotech would not even exist" So that point is pretty moot.

I will give the next robotech series or ova or whatever it is, a chance. I really do want to know if Rick Hunter is actually evil or if he is actually dead and some alien has taken his form. (the invid could create humans by evolving to new shapes, wouldn't be out of the ordinary if you ask me)

To fans of Robotech: what is the true canon these days anyway?: are the mckinney novels canon?

Edited September 1, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

-anime was not as mainstream back then as it is now. (pre-akira days) Even though astroboy and speed racer and other came before robotech, people (well ones I hang around with) did not try to think of these as anime in the sense that they wanted to differentiate between western made cartoons - usually only aimed at children - and japanese animation. (varying ages and lots of it not suitable for children)

Robotech was not presented as anime either. It was pitched as just another cartoon.

I believe the two could co-exist but I hope this doesn't prevent fans of the originals from getting toys and stuff without hassle.. (ie does HG actually send out C&D letters to sellers of macross stuff threatening them? If true then they shouldn't expect any kind of sympathy so why are robotech fans helping them prevent us from getting acess to macross toys? I don't get it - we should be grateful that someone is trying to limit the choices of fans of both series??)

Yes, that's true.

And THAT is what originated much of the raw hatred Robotech experiences today.

To fans of Robotech: what is the true canon these days anyway?: are the mckinney novels canon?

Harmony Gold refuses to say. So no one knows.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I guess what I meant to say was that for me the 80s was when I started to get into anime due to shows like robotech.

As a kid I did not differentiate too much between the western made stuff or japanese animation. Not knowing too much about the background of where things were created and stuff.

Friends of mine will always see shows as they viewed them in english, adapted to thier culture and probably not recognise the original as much. (due to lack of awareness mainly, and because of lack of channels to see the originals unless you tried hard. True, robotech was not pitched as anime, but for many growing up in that period it was thier start I guess, into anime for them personally, despite it being seen as just another us toon when tey first saw it.)

As an example when seeing space battleship yamato, a friend of mine mentioned how he liked the "original" title screen music more and I said that this was the original. I guess he was reffering from his point of view to the US Star Blazers music with english lyrics and dub. Why would he prefer it and call it original? Because of nostalgia as a kid hearing that version first and not caring at all back then where the original was made. And why would he not be aware of the original? Because back then, lack of channels, awareness, cartoons being adapted and appealing for international audiences, etc as opposed to today where it may be seen in original form on a bigger scale and recognised more that way.

Edited September 1, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

Fair enough.

I'd credit Voltron more than Robotech for my interest in anime, though Robotech certainly had more lasting appeal.

Or maybe (Gods, I hate to admit this) Sailor Moon, as that was the program that made me aware of anime AS anime, instead of just as cartoons.

But yah, most people automatically identify with the one they saw first.

[baronv]

Heck I still like Robotech, if it wasn't for that show I'd never would have gotten into Macross (thus saving tons of money!). It was the first viewing for my friends and I into semi-serious cartoons back when we were something like 4th or 5th graders. Just because HG merged three shows into one didn't phase me at all back in the 80's, they were robots and people died and that was cool to me. What isn't so cool is that HG does not credit the creators of the three shows at all, at Robocon there were no mention of the creators of Macross, So. Cross or Mospeada at all.

[Ishimaru]

Wow didnt expect too many posts from you guys . I basicly watched Robotech before I got intrested in Macross my older brothers are fans but no more since they grew out of it. But they tell me to keep going as a fan and I will.

I dont have a big collection or even a small collection of Robotech or Macross models, toys, and etc. I realy wish I had the money for a collection but at my age its realy not possible. But thier was one thing Im realy happy for....if any one atteneded the Robotech Proprective Panel at AX I managed to get something part of my memory and that was a signed New Generations DVD Collection by the whole cast I was....its undescribable just a great feeling and its nice to know I have something like that in my small little collection will always bring me that great feeling(It was funny Reba West signed a very small signature )

I thank you guys so much and I also thank Agent ONE for standing up for me knowing that he is a Robotech fan himself....I will be making a huge post of pictures I took at AX yah I know its been like 2 months but hey dont blame me that I cant develop film ... but yah.

[Black Valkyrie]

I have a feeling the admin will close this thread very soon.

[BoBe-Patt]

well I grew up with robotech and loved it back then. Then I discovered Macross and was in love with that more. I still like how they combined three different animes and made it into one series. I'll always like both, but macross more of course.

[Radd]

I liked Robotech as a kid, growing up in the 80's it was one of the best animated series out there, the Starblazers of that generation. However, even as a kid there were parts I hated. Minmei was a terrible character, and her songs were good reason to keep the mute button handy. It was a running joke among some friends of mine that her singing was one of the most painful things you could inflict upon anyone. Some of the story elements, such as the SDF-2, seemed painfully forced into the show and none of us were fooled into believing there were 2 SDFs in that lake. The Masters saga was slow and dull, though it did have some interesting mecha designs. New Generation was a lot of fun, more like the first part of Robotech than Masters was.

However, as I grew older, the cracks in the show grew wider and wider, even before I knew it was an edited version of three unrelated shows.

Finally the AnimEigo DVD set of SDF Macross came out, and I saw the original series, unedited for the first time. It really struck my how different it was from Robotech, in tone, character developement, pacing, and writing. Most of the problems that I had with Robotech were completely absent, and Minmay was not only able to sing well, but she wasn't a worthless character at all, she was actually likable for the most part (My favourite Minmay is still the DYRL? version, though, I thought she and the whole love triangle was handled so much better for the film).

I have to say that while I harbour no ill will towards Robotech as a tv show, I find Macross to be better in every concievable way.

I do look forward to seeing if Shadow Chronicles raises the bar for the Robotech franchise a bit, but I won't get my hopes up until the show is out. I'd be more excited to hear Kawamori was heading up a brand new Macross project. I love DYRL?, Plus, Zero, and I even enjoy M7 though I think it would have benefited if Kawamori had directly overseen the project.

I also don't hold with the idea that we have Robotech to thank for introducing us to Macross. I'd still have developed an interest in anime, I've always loved animation, and if Harmony Gold had released the series unedited to begin with, I'd have seen uncut, unedited Macross goodness many, many years earlier. That, combined with HG's hostile attitude towards Macross sequels and merchandise (and by proxy, their hostile attitude towards Macross fans) gives me a less than grateful attitude towards them as a company. However, I'm not able to work up the raw vehemence that some fans are, and I'm willing to support them on those rare occaissions when they do something right.

[Gui]

My feelings are very similar to Radd's, except that I kept my interest for RT until I learnt it was a 'hybrid" series, but it wasn't related to the fact that it was some sort of 'artificial' show (I learnt at the same moment that Space Pirate Captain Harlock had a similar treatment and I still like it...), it was that I learnt Macross was an independent story

My very first 'steps' into the Macross universe occured when I was around 9: I saw some model box in a shop and was amazed by the designs of the Regult and the Tomahawk (the Valkyries interested me less, they didn't look 'credible' to me at this moment, and they still don't, at least not from an industrial designer viewpoint but it's an entirely different matter...): at this time, the only giant robot show I knew was UFO Robot Grandizer, broadcasted in France under the name of Goldorak, this is why I was impressed by such 'realism' and originality into Macross mecha designs. The robots looked 'real': they could move their arms and legs unlike Grandizer, you could make them pose and fight, etc,... A kid dream came true

Some years later, Robotech was broadcasted and I recognized these designs: this brought me into RT and I kept looking for more during years, until I learnt the whole thing about 3 shows mixed into one in reading Protoculture Addicts then got confirmation in frequenting some anime communities in the town where I studied. Though I kept interested into RT (even if nothing new happened atm, Sentinels not being really interesting, all the more as the whole project finally collapsed...), I was from now on looking almost exclusively for Macross infos. I got a raw copy of DYRL? and an artbook on M7, saw M+ and M2, etc...

Whatever some people will say, or think so loud that will all hear it, the most part of RT success come from Macross IMO: not obligatory for the relationships between characters which were a bit too much complex for the very young male audience targeted by the producers, but for its 'realistic' designs (mechas but also environments) which made the story very credible and almost contemporary (M0 success is based onto the same thing IMO...), it was something the spectators could identify, not just another space adventure like in Southern Cross or any other shows of the same period such as Captain Future in my country. We could almost say that we'll be VF or destroid pilots when we'll be adults

This is why RT's still in my heart, mainly nostalgia though it has some good points here and there, even if they're ripped off from some other shows. Macross, on the other hand, is its angular stone: without it, with any other show replacing it into the time-line, even in keeping intact the whole plot for the sake of continuity, it would have been just another story, another anime. Maybe the transgenerationnal theme would have been of some influence but I have some doubts because it wasn't 'standard' enough to be easily followed by young spectators...

[Sumdumgai]

I got into anime with Dominion Tank Police, Ranma 1/2, and Akira. Then Macross Plus and other manga video releases pulled me in deeper (waaaaay back when Manga video first started up).

Robotech didn't introduce me to anime, I avoided robotech when I was a kid because the title of the show sounded retarded. Then I watched a bit after having been exposed to M+, because I found out that was the only way to watch part of Macross. I read those horrible Jack Mckinney books to get an idea of the season 1 storyline, since tapes of robotech weren't easily available.

I hate hackjobs. Robotech is one big hackjob. I have a hatred for HG, and robotech. Even if HG weren't a bunch of ********************* I would still hate robotech.

I was lucky enough to get an uncensored version of Macross DYRL, dubbed on VHS. It had those funky voice actors I knew so well from all of my Dad's dubbed kung-fu flicks (like Challenge of the Ninja!). Although the dubbers sounded like they hadn't gotten the intonations down well, I still liked them better than the robotech dub.

Robotech may have gotten some people into anime and Macross, but it's still a horrid hack-job. Story-wise, content-wise, and music-wise (the music part is arguable on personal preference).

I'm not making a judgement on the new Robotech series, but I don't have a good feeling about it.

[armentage]

I hate hackjobs.  Robotech is one big hackjob.  I have a hatred for HG, and robotech.  Even if HG weren't a bunch of ********************* I would still hate robotech.

325035[/snapback]

Man you have some serious anger issues. Deep breath...

HG is just a bunch of guys trying to get by and make a living. They made a cartoon franchise that's lasted 20 years, kicked the crap out of every other cartoon back in it's day on US TV, and made a lot of people very happy for a long time.

Are they going to protect their ability to make money with the Robotech and Macross products they licensed back in the day? You betcha. You'd do the same. If you didn't, you'd be a fool.

[Roy Focker]

I hope I'm quoting this right...

"There's only two things that I hate. Those who are intolerant of other people's cultures and Robotech" - Nigel Powers.

Man this is like the age old debate from the first year of operation. It's a proven fact that Robotech makes baby Kawamori cry.

Any hoo moving this topic to the other anime section.

[UN_MARINE]

I was lucky enough to have seen both of 'em at roughly the same time.

1 channel aired robotech, and another aired Macross.

although back then, I couldn't keep up with Macross 'cause of the time slot, & GI joe was much more interesting back then... (*ducks*)

Eventually, I saw DYRL? & PLUS. I did some "soul searching" & realized that robotech was...... (*INSERT WORD*)

Yes, I hate robotech out of principle. there was a nice analogy posted a while back, something like....

"what if You created some kind of masterpiece, & I borrowed it from you. I chop it up, & add little bits to it & call it my own 'original' work. Then, it becomes famous. Now You, the original creator, obvioiusly has rights to it, but, i slap some court order (or something to that effect) saying You have no such claim to it & now, You have to ask Me for permission to use it in any way."

That's what robotech & HG is. well, mostly

Inetersting stuff, huh ?

[Noyhauser]

I hope I'm quoting this right...

"There's only two things that I hate.  Those who are intolerant of other people's cultures and Robotech" - Nigel Powers.

Man this is like the age old debate from the first year of operation.  It's a proven fact that Robotech makes baby Kawamori cry.

Any hoo moving this topic to the other anime section.

325056[/snapback]

WTF??!?! Who are you and what have you done with RF? I mean the real Roy Focker would have exorcized this topic within 10 seconds of it being posted.... and you just moved it?

[kanata67]

I don't see anything that makes Robotech the better choice for any age level.

I could read well enough when I was 5. But this wouldn't be an issue, except that Harmony Gold refused to let anyone dub the original programs.

at five sure... at sixteen drunk and high not so much

I to know who duran duran are and only had access to robotech. ?The show that opened for it was "tranzor Z" . I to learned about macross later. Then I forgot about everything for about a decade. Then I was trying to comeplete the armor of a jetfire [my most beloved childhood toy] a friend pawned to me when he was about to get evicted and stumbled across this wonderful site where I learned/remembered all sorts of cool stuff. This was right about when the bandai re-issues came out and I was hooked once more. Especially now that I can buy stuff off the internet and the world is a smaller comunity. To be honest, I've seen both darl/macross and robotech... when I was a kid. I have yet to watch either since. It's all about the toys for me. I may not have seen every episode or movie from either series but I'm getting prouder of my valk collection . I've never seen macross plus but I recognize a good toys whenI see it. God bless yamato and its 19a blue goodness. Obviously there are some here who's collections put me to horrible shame but I know at the least I have enough 1/55's to JART them into submission . Especially once I mount broadheads in the noses of some customs

I will say this though... for many "deprived" american kids who grew up watching america's elite fighting force battle it out each day with the largest terrorist organation in the world without anybody being able to hit the inside of a barn wall with the doors closed holding a bazzoka... watching fokker die in macross was a world shattering moment