Hurricane Katrina

[Rune]

But JBO....If you could make Bushey go away, everything would be harmounious in the world,right?

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/0....183333333.html Fun little read. Actually scary.

[JB0]

But JBO....If you could make Bushey go away, everything would be harmounious in the world,right?

Indeed. We need him to go away, and replace him with someone more militant. Do what we want, or be nuked.

[one_klump]

Well, Hurricaine Katrina was a real bitch. There are thosands (yes, literally) dead in New Orleans and the surrounding areas. Slidell, my town, was hit very hard as well. I made a trip down there yesterday to survey the damage. According to the reports I heard from other people, my house should have either been under 10 feet of water, or just totally gone.

Well the good news is that my house is still there, and no trees fell on it. However, I did get about 4 feet of water in my house. Everything is ruined, except my toys there on a high shelf.

Everyone is safe, we stayed with my mother in Columbus, Mississippi for 2 days, then we moved to my inlaws house in Baton Rouge. Power was just restored about an hour ago.

Power is not expected to be back on in Slidell for nearly 8 weeks. I cannot discribe the destruction. It is simply overwhelming. Trees and powerlines are down everwhere. Roads are blocked, boats and cars are strewn everywhere. I looks like a nuclear bomb went off. Oh, and my PC is toast. D:

Elsewhere, in New Orleans, there is 15 feet of water in many areas of the city. many of the people who are not dead or waiting to be rescued are looters and thugs. I can only describe it as a failure of humanity. People are stealing anything thay can get their hands on.

Further more, I have first hand reports of mobs with assualt weapons shooting at the helicoptors trying to rescue patients at the hospital. There are entire hospital wards with bodies stacked higher than the staff. They actuallty stopped taking bodies, they have no electricity to store them properly.

This is unlike anything I could have dreamed of. The people that are being evacuated to baton Rouge have begun to start the looting and criminal activity up here. Its so sad.

[one_klump]

Here is a picture of the Twinspan, a 5 mile bridge on the I-10 that connects New Orleans to Slidell

[edit]

sorry, the pic was huge. There is a re-sized pic on the next page.

Edited September 2, 2005 by one_klump

[Metal_Massacre_79]

FYI for those of you in other countries and want to contribute. You can always make a donation at www.redcross.org, one of the only non religious and non political groups out there who really make a difference in times like this.

[JB0]

And here's a resized picture of the bridge that fits on one screen...

...

That and board attachments automatically create a thumbnail, further reducing it.

Edited September 2, 2005 by JB0

[kalvasflam]

But JBO....If you could make Bushey go away, everything would be harmounious in the world,right?

Indeed. We need him to go away, and replace him with someone more militant. Do what we want, or be nuked.

325209[/snapback]

Guys, no need to delve into politics here, whether you agree with Bush or not, he has had his share of successes, and failures. What you would constitute as success or failure vary depending on your view, but either way, it's not a great topic to bring up.

The sad part is, politics is already interjecting itself into this disaster, even though the problem is still ongoing.

It seems like they're slowly getting back in control of things in NO. I wonder if things are just as bad in the other two states, because you don't hear as much problems, may be that's just the amount of coverage, but may be they are not having as much problem, one can only hope.

But they really need to make an example of some of these looters, and I mean on TV, but of course, that just means that the lawyers will be jumping on the bandwagon suing the government.

[Apollo Leader]

Preach on.  Whats so sad is that its our leaders that have left us in this precocious predicament.  The Middle East oil manufactures have the US president in there back pocket.  The presidents solution-- Drill in Alaska    .  You gotta be kidding me. And it is someone of that stature that should've been persuading the public and private industry to devise inventive ways to lessen our dependence upon foriegn oil.  But alas we no longer have true visionaries dictating our domestic and foreign policies.  I think it is going to take several different things to lessen our need for foreign oil. 

Unleaded here in Austin is about $ 2.69 to 2.79 a gallon. 

325195[/snapback]

Proposals for drilling in Anwar (which is not some sort of pristine wildlife refuge as the Left would want people to believe) go back to 1995.

The thing is, environmental whackos and their allies in the Democratic party have prevented oil exploration and building of any new oil refineries for the last several decades, putting this country in the predictament it is now. If things continue to get worse, there will be a huge outcry to start looking for more oil and to open up more refineries... environmentalists be damned.

In the long run, alternatives, like possibly hydrogen fuel cells, need to be very seriously looked into, but the reality is that this country and its economy are powered by oil N-O-W.

As for me, I started using my bike to ride to work today (took about 17 minutes to reach there). As long as the weather's good, I hope to continue doing this. I am hoping to stretch the fuel in my truck out to 3 or 4 weeks instead of the normal 2. I would recommend that for others to reduce and consolidate your trips whenever possible.

As for the people of Louisiana, you are most definitely in my thoughts and prayers during this terrible time.

And as for the looters and snipers prowling around New Orleans... may a cap be popped in all of your worthless @$$e$.

[JB0]

But JBO....If you could make Bushey go away, everything would be harmounious in the world,right?

Indeed. We need him to go away, and replace him with someone more militant. Do what we want, or be nuked.

325209[/snapback]

Guys, no need to delve into politics here, whether you agree with Bush or not, he has had his share of successes, and failures. What you would constitute as success or failure vary depending on your view, but either way, it's not a great topic to bring up.

I thought we were both being flippant and sarcastic...

It seems like they're slowly getting back in control of things in NO.  I wonder if things are just as bad in the other two states, because you don't hear as much problems, may be that's just the amount of coverage, but may be they are not having as much problem, one can only hope.

I can't imagine how they COULD be as bad as NO. Everywhere else has drainage.

[JB0]

The thing is, environmental whackos and their allies in the Democratic party have prevented oil exploration and building of any new oil refineries for the last several decades, putting this country in the predictament it is now.  If things continue to get worse, there will be a huge outcry to start looking for more oil and to open up more refineries... environmentalists be damned.

In the long run, alternatives, like possibly hydrogen fuel cells, need to be very seriously looked into, but the reality is that this country and its economy are powered by oil N-O-W.

NUCLEAR POWER!

...

Seriously. It's a clean, safe source of energy that a few people with too much cash have made totally unfeasable by suing everyone that tries to build a plant.

Not that I want the legal system closed off to people, but it's too easily abused sometimes.

As for the people of Louisiana, you are most definitely in my thoughts and prayers during this terrible time.

Seconded.

And as for the looters and snipers prowling around New Orleans... may a cap be popped in all of your worthless @$$e$.

Seconded.

Especially if we take this literally. I enjoy the idea of a bunch of idiots hopping around with a slug lodged in their posterior.

[kalvasflam]

NUCLEAR POWER!

...

Seriously. It's a clean, safe source of energy that a few people with too much cash have made totally unfeasable by suing everyone that tries to build a plant.

Not that I want the legal system closed off to people, but it's too easily abused sometimes.

In last week's Business Week, they point out that sentiments on nuclear power is slowly shifting, from 45% in favor to 70% in favor over the last ten years. Of course, none of the utilities want to take the chance on building anything yet. Basically because of all the regulations they have to face, and the lingering bad rep they have to deal with from 3 mile island and Chernobyl. Earliest one probably won't go on line till nearing the end of the decade.

Hopefully, the oil crisis will change their minds a little. I always wondered why they couldn't build two dozen nuclear power plants out in the desert somewhere, and have rotating staff to run the things. I'm sure there are good reasons, may be there are some electrical engineers here that can explain why it would be bad for power distribution.

[Major Johnathan]

I'm all for building lots more refineries. You know the 'not in my backyard' excuse, by all means put it in my backyard. I don't think I'd care for a Nuclear plant, radiation still spooks me in spite of all the safety precautions etc.

If you live close to a refinery, shouldn't gas be cheaper? Sounds good to me, we could use some business around here anyway.

That said, lets get moving on ethanol and or Hydrogen. I'm not dumping it in Pres. Bush's lap by the way. We've been lagging behind energy invention for decades. It kind of reminds me of Space exploration, we just kind of stopped trying since the 1970's. It's like we've been coasting along and hoping for the best and now it's all biting us in the arse.

Just read a Kuwaiti official's kind words about how Katrina is Allah's judgment, such gratitude. Maybe the U.S. should release Saddam and let him run Kuwait like he wanted to in the first place.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Major Johnathan

[Major Johnathan]

I also have to say, I can't stand these stories how families and kids are being told to abandon their pets. An old man was stuck on his roof with his dog, a helicopter comes along and refuses to let the dog come along, so the poor guy abandons his dog. Man I'd flip the finger to the chopper and wave bye bye.

They're also telling kids they can't take their pets as they board buses, as if life isn't miserable enough. I understand why some people go along with it, but there's just no way I could.

Just think, those looters and killers will eventually be rescued like everyone else and given all manner of financial aid. I have far more concern for the abandoned dogs and cats than I ever would for them.

[Mr March]

Thoguht I'd point out that half of the oil used in the US comes FROM the US.

And half of our imported oil comes from Canada, our communist neighbors to the north.

325198[/snapback]

Well, good to see this incident bringing out the best in people

[one_klump]

Here is the story of my Sister-in-law who was trapped in the Chalmette courthouse.

She was trapped by riseing water, the water rose 5 foot in 20 min, and another 4 foot in the next 45 min. She was on the 3rd floor, and remained trapped there for 3 days until the first signs of help arrived. A National Guard unti arrived and acessed the situation, found them safe, and told them he would come back later. Well, on the next evening, no sign of the help returning. The son of the Sheriff was trapped with them, and they started to go outside to commendeer boats from the werckage. After they got enough boats to carry everyone, they were able to contact a person who was able to get a crew boat to meet them on the mississippi river. They then rode the crew boat 9 1\2 hours up the river to Baton Rouge, where we picked them up.

She told me that she had to literally push the dead bodies out of the way of their boats. They could hear people and dogs from inside their attics, trapped by the flood water and unable to get outside. A truly sobering experince.

They were not saved by the national guard, the only time they saw a national guard or any law enforcement personel was the initial visit. After that, it seemd that the government had given up in most parts of the city, and are almost ignoring St. Bernard Parish totally.

Its a sad, sad time here. I kope that none of you guys ever have to experince anything like this.

And please, drop the politics. This is about people, not republicans, not democrats, not rich or poor. Its about people.

Edited September 2, 2005 by one_klump

[Goshawk]

Well, Hurricaine Katrina was a real bitch. There are thosands (yes, literally) dead in New Orleans and the surrounding areas. Slidell, my town, was hit very hard as well. I made a trip down there yesterday to survey the damage. According to the reports I heard from other people, my house should have either been under 10 feet of water, or just totally gone.

Well the good news is that my house is still there, and no trees fell on it. However, I did get about 4 feet of water in my house. Everything is ruined, except my toys  there on a high shelf.

Everyone is safe, we stayed with my mother in Columbus, Mississippi for 2 days, then we moved to my inlaws house in Baton Rouge. Power was just restored about an hour ago.

Power is not expected to be back on in Slidell for nearly 8 weeks. I cannot discribe the destruction. It is simply overwhelming. Trees and powerlines are down everwhere. Roads are blocked, boats and cars are strewn everywhere. I looks like a nuclear bomb went off. Oh, and my PC is toast. D:

Elsewhere, in New Orleans, there is 15 feet of water in many areas of the city. many of the people who are not dead or waiting to be rescued are looters and thugs. I can only describe it as a failure of humanity. People are stealing anything thay can get their hands on.

Further more, I have first hand reports of mobs with assualt weapons shooting at the helicoptors trying to rescue patients at the hospital. There are entire hospital wards with bodies stacked higher than the staff. They actuallty stopped taking bodies, they have no electricity to store them properly.

This is unlike anything I could have dreamed of. The people that are being evacuated to baton Rouge have begun to start the looting and criminal activity up here. Its so sad.

325211[/snapback]

One klump glad to see you made it safe, I was also in Slidell today to look in on my house and I got a pine tree trying to use my garage as a bed. The damage was not really as bad as I feared. I will need a new roof and celining in my garage. but I could have been in more trouble than that. I got pics of while there at some of the downed trees and damage along Gause Blvd. There were some trees I saw looked like they were like a match sticked snaped in half. I will post those pics as soon as I can.

As you were told I feared my subdivison i live was flooded to the brim, since it will flood just as a good storm comes in. But I have to admit, my house was high and dry.

Right now I am in Layfette and there have been reports of viloence here and that the some of those looters are just being droped off here to. I would be lieing if I said I was already stressed and now I hear this from friends, that has just mulitiplies my stress. Now I am trying to protect my family and friends. I hope this gets under control soon. I fear the worst.

Angus

[one_klump]

Angus! It's John Giangrosso, Tau player from hyyperlynx

[glane21]

I worked on a contract in NO over a three year period and the chaos that has erupted there is no surprise. The state and local government there was always a joke of corruption and stupidity. They knew 3 days in advance Katrina was going to hit them. This was no surprise. Where was the leadership? Where is Ray Nagin now, has anyone seen him? During 9/11, Rudy Giulliani took over and ran the show but this guy seems to be in hiding.

That said, there's no excuse for all those people stuck at the Convention Center with no food or water. The Nat Guard should be Heloing pallets of supplies in there. There are reports of babies dying there of dehydration and that really disturbs and angers me.

I think that Nagin and the dipshit governor should be prosecuted.

[JB0]

NUCLEAR POWER!

...

Seriously. It's a clean, safe source of energy that a few people with too much cash have made totally unfeasable by suing everyone that tries to build a plant.

Not that I want the legal system closed off to people, but it's too easily abused sometimes.

In last week's Business Week, they point out that sentiments on nuclear power is slowly shifting, from 45% in favor to 70% in favor over the last ten years. Of course, none of the utilities want to take the chance on building anything yet. Basically because of all the regulations they have to face, and the lingering bad rep they have to deal with from 3 mile island and Chernobyl. Earliest one probably won't go on line till nearing the end of the decade.

I tend to ignore polls, because they're so easily manipulated. You can get whatever result you want on any issue you choose based on how you phrase the question and what order you put the questions.

On the average, though, it loks like 95% of the populace doesn't give a flying butt-copulation if they build some reactors. That 5% that does has organized and every time someone tries to build a new nuclear plant, they protest. Then they sue for whatever absurd reason they can think of.

It doesn't matter if they win or lose(I don't think they've fielded a case that won yet), or what the majority of the nation thinks of their stance. They just want to drag it out in the courts until the company building the reactor gives up.

And 3-Mile Island is hardly worth being scared over. Everything that could go wrong did, and the reactor still wasn't breached. In my opinion, it's a great example of how safe nuclear power is, at least until the reactors we do have degrade beyond their designed life expectancy.

Chernobyl... is a chilling reminder of what happens when you don't build proper safety features in.

Hopefully, the oil crisis will change their minds a little.  I always wondered why they couldn't build two dozen nuclear power plants out in the desert somewhere, and have rotating staff to run the  things.  I'm sure there are good reasons, may be there are some electrical engineers here that can explain why it would be bad for power distribution.

Well...

The big one is the economy of lawsuits.

But they DO need water, and a way to shed waste heat.

The traditional fission power plant uses two sets of heat exchanges. There's a closed loop that goes into the reactor and extracts heat from teh controlled chain reaction in the core. This one is tied to a SECOND loop through a heat exchanger, and that second loop is used to boil water. The steam generated there is used to spin a turbine.

It's a lot how coal, oil, and gas plants work, just with a cleaner heat source.

Speaking of which... coal power plants release more radioactive material into the atmosphere than nuclear ones.

Thoguht I'd point out that half of the oil used in the US comes FROM the US.

And half of our imported oil comes from Canada, our communist neighbors to the north.

325198[/snapback]

Well, good to see this incident bringing out the best in people

325272[/snapback]

The communist crack is nothing more than a joke. One I make far too often.

...

But their flag IS red...

[Lynx7725]

Guys, I'm not a US citizen and have never stepped into the US, but these past few days the stories out of NO sounds pretty bad to me. Not so much the natural calamity part -- that's kind of unavoidable at times -- but the human stories that pops up after Katrina had passed

Normally, you hear of courageous stories in such times that restore the faith in the goodness inherent in humanity. For example, this officer sacrificed himself to save trapped/ injured civilians, or XYZ group got together to bring relief to victims, or some such.

This time though, the majority of the reports coming out of NO are pretty bad. Looting and pillaging -- not of necessities, but of luxury items and weapons. Shooting at rescue helos and firemen. Lack of police presence -- apparently a breakdown in police command and control too. Lack of aid from authorities, rapes and murders in refugee zones.

Granted, there are stories of other cities offering their resources to help NO, but it is saddening that the stories of human cruelties seem to outpace these positive aspects.

Just a comment from an outsider. Good luck to all affected.

Link to Blogger still in NO.

[kalvasflam]

Hopefully, the oil crisis will change their minds a little.  I always wondered why they couldn't build two dozen nuclear power plants out in the desert somewhere, and have rotating staff to run the  things.  I'm sure there are good reasons, may be there are some electrical engineers here that can explain why it would be bad for power distribution.

Well...

The big one is the economy of lawsuits.

But they DO need water, and a way to shed waste heat.

The traditional fission power plant uses two sets of heat exchanges. There's a closed loop that goes into the reactor and extracts heat from teh controlled chain reaction in the core. This one is tied to a SECOND loop through a heat exchanger, and that second loop is used to boil water. The steam generated there is used to spin a turbine.

It's a lot how coal, oil, and gas plants work, just with a cleaner heat source.

Speaking of which... coal power plants release more radioactive material into the atmosphere than nuclear ones.

You know, about the water thing, I have two words for you: LAS VEGAS.

If they can sustain a place like that (yeah I know about the Hoover dam and all), but still, if they can do that for a show piece, I'm positive that this can be done for something that has practical values. Hell, just put the place up in Area 51. Then make it restricted.

As for the environmentalists, I think they have good points, but to me, most of them are just a bunch of extremists these days. Any industry need oversight, but not overkill.

Lynx, actually, those human stories in NO are kind of bad, but unfortunately, they do represent a lot of the US. Especially the major cities. Consider for example, LA, or Oakland. In the former case, they had a trial on a bunch of cops that gave a bad verdict, in the latter case, the bastards rioted because the Raiders went to the Superbowl. I don't think you'd see those in a lot of the smaller towns where the community tend to be a bit more solid. But in my opinion, a lot of the big cities in the US are really dumps. It's sad, but it is a reality.

[JB0]

Guys, I'm not a US citizen and have never stepped into the US, but these past few days the stories out of NO sounds pretty bad to me. Not so much the natural calamity part -- that's kind of unavoidable at times -- but the human stories that pops up after Katrina had passed

Normally, you hear of courageous stories in such times that restore the faith in the goodness inherent in humanity. For example, this officer sacrificed himself to save trapped/ injured civilians, or XYZ group got together to bring relief to victims, or some such.

This time though, the majority of the reports coming out of NO are pretty bad. Looting and pillaging -- not of necessities, but of luxury items and weapons. Shooting at rescue helos and firemen. Lack of police presence -- apparently a breakdown in police command and control too. Lack of aid from authorities, rapes and murders in refugee zones.

Granted, there are stories of other cities offering their resources to help NO, but it is saddening that the stories of human cruelties seem to outpace these positive aspects.

Just a comment from an outsider. Good luck to all affected.

Link to Blogger still in NO.

325295[/snapback]

Yah. Diffrent situations affect people diffrently.

The heroism stories tend to come from rapid events that start without warning and are over in a matter of hours.

This one built up over several days, with a mandatory evacuation order issued before the hurricane ever landed.

Hopefully, the oil crisis will change their minds a little.  I always wondered why they couldn't build two dozen nuclear power plants out in the desert somewhere, and have rotating staff to run the  things.  I'm sure there are good reasons, may be there are some electrical engineers here that can explain why it would be bad for power distribution.

Well...

The big one is the economy of lawsuits.

But they DO need water, and a way to shed waste heat.

The traditional fission power plant uses two sets of heat exchanges. There's a closed loop that goes into the reactor and extracts heat from teh controlled chain reaction in the core. This one is tied to a SECOND loop through a heat exchanger, and that second loop is used to boil water. The steam generated there is used to spin a turbine.

It's a lot how coal, oil, and gas plants work, just with a cleaner heat source.

Speaking of which... coal power plants release more radioactive material into the atmosphere than nuclear ones.

You know, about the water thing, I have two words for you: LAS VEGAS.

If they can sustain a place like that (yeah I know about the Hoover dam and all), but still, if they can do that for a show piece, I'm positive that this can be done for something that has practical values. Hell, just put the place up in Area 51. Then make it restricted.

Vegas gets it's water from Hoover Dam.

Not coincidentally, it gets it's electricity from Hoover Dam too.

Once you have a water source you're tapping, it becomes easier to slap a turbine in the pipe and just let falling water spin it than to pump it offsite.

[Sumdumgai]

It was great to read the article about a bunch of cops that survived by hanging onto a big bush in front of their station when the flood waters tried to wash them away. Everyone from that station survived, which is good news to my ears. They plan to keep the bush as a memorial. Lucky thing they didn't chop it down, like they had been considering!

[grss1982]

My thought and prayers goes out to all those affected.

Im tuning in to bloomberg here in the office, really sad sight to see with the destroyed homes, the news of looting and all.

And as for the looters and snipers prowling around New Orleans... may a cap be popped in all of your worthless @$$e$.

AMEN!!!

Edited September 2, 2005 by grss1982

[Guest Bromgrev]

I can't understand this obsession with looters. Who cares about TVs, retailers and most homeowners are insured, I can't see Walmart wiping the sewage off their stock and putting it back on the shelves. Should the majority of the police force really be pulled off search-and-rescue in order to prevent looting? If this is how one-off disasters are handled, I would not want to see what happens when sea levels rise.

[Major Johnathan]

Yeah, I think it's fair to say New Orleans has a long, long reputation as being one of the most corrupt cities in America, certainly in the South. The Police there are fairly notorious for corruption and the State prison system is regarded as one of the most brutal in America.

I agree about Giulliani, he was the perfect example of a great Mayor in a crisis. He was walking the streets while the towers were still burning, he had the common sense to tell the people around him to cover their mouths to avoid breathing any toxic fumes, ordered police here and there and they went. All in all, he was honest and straight forward with a very shell shocked population.

New Orleans Mayor really does seem like he's in hiding(literally, haven't seen him on the news for days), his police are baffled at how to proceed, in a few cases the police JOINED the looters. Law enforcement practically abandoned the city. It's not inspiring, but I do expect the people to get help now, the Feds/Military are taking over. Considering a category 5 was headed straight for NO for at least a couple days before landfall, they're lack of readiness at the city and state level is stunning.

Also, I heard the state Attorney General literally excusing the looters, dismissing it as just people getting food and water, in spite of tons of pictures showing looters taking a whole lot more than food and water. Can you imagine how many people may have been murdered in cold blood, and they'll just be listed as 'flood victims'. What a terrible excuse for the State's highest ranking Law 'Enforcement' officer.

[Major Johnathan]

I can't understand this obsession with looters. Who cares about TVs, retailers and most homeowners are insured, I can't see Walmart wiping the sewage off their stock and putting it back on the shelves. Should the majority of the police force really be pulled off search-and-rescue in order to prevent looting? If this is how one-off disasters are handled, I would not want to see what happens when sea levels rise.

325353[/snapback]

It's like this, the looters stayed in spite of all the warnings literally hoping for this chance, hoping to take advantage of a power vaccume. They've been looting car dealers, electronics stores, jewelery stores, sporting goods (makes good gang-wear) and guns, not just water and food. And they're not stupid, they looted stores that weren't flooded, merchandise that wasn't damaged. Now they've been raping at will, settling idiotic gang scores, killing robbery victims, burning down buildings after they stole what they wanted, shooting randomly at crowds of people, try to raid hospitals for the drugs, and they've even taken a few pot shots at rescue boats and helicopters.

Pretty much a National disgrace. How'd you like being a woman, child or elderly person with these roving thugs on the loose? It's bad enough they're looting etc. but that Law Enforcement virtually abandoned the people to their fate is really unforgiveable.

Oh, and I'll bet most home owners don't have much if any insurance, it's a poor city. Besides, would you like complete strangers smashing their way in to your house and stealing anything you couldn't take with you? And like I say, they're starting to burn the houses and business's they've looted to cover their tracks. It's like saying if your car were dented up some, a complete stranger had the right to walk up and steal your car or set it on fire since your car was already damaged.

And you clearly haven't dealt with insurance companies before, they don't exactly jump at the chance to pay for your loss's, often you have to actually hire a lawyer to go after the Insurance company, and even then, they will fight every penny. Do you have receipts for every single item you have? If not they'll say it's your problem.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Major Johnathan

[Mechleader]

My prayers are with you.

[Metal_Massacre_79]

The problem with most of the insurance policies is that this will be treated as flood damage and usually it's hard to get that covered on your policy. Especially in an area that is below sea level and surrounded by water.

[Guest Bromgrev]

Actually, the point I'm trying to make is simply about resource allocation, not the rights and wrongs of looting. The scale of this disaster is far greater than people seem to realise. The only thing the police and military should be doing at this point is getting supplies in and getting people out. There is plenty of time to worry about property once people stop dying.

[one_klump]

Well, now they are just burning the city. It will be burned to the ground. Downtown is ignited, and once the flames spread to Canel Street and the French Quater, its over. 200 year old building will be reduced to nothing.

They have suspended rescues for some reason also. They Mayor is PISSED about the lack of help NO has recived. He was cussing on CNN, and he has every right to be.

[neptunesurvey]

The news is not getting any better for my area. Found out my place of work, Stennis, is closed until further notice and the building I worked at received moderate damage. The storm surge reached about 2 blocks from my home but I won't know until next weekend when I return if my home was destroyed by the surge.

On a more positive note, I got hold of a friend that stayed through the storm and he and his family are doing well.

[kalvasflam]

I can't understand this obsession with looters. Who cares about TVs, retailers and most homeowners are insured, I can't see Walmart wiping the sewage off their stock and putting it back on the shelves. Should the majority of the police force really be pulled off search-and-rescue in order to prevent looting? If this is how one-off disasters are handled, I would not want to see what happens when sea levels rise.

325353[/snapback]

It's not so much about the insurance, it's simply about the basic nature of the society and the community as a whole. The looters are more than just that, there are all these stories about murders and rapes going on in the city. This shows how truly screwed up the community is, and how utterly powerless the authorities are.

The police should not turn a blind eye to this. What kind of city would it be if you saved the infrastructure only to find out that because of the lawlessness, everyone has upped and left.

The sad state of the NOPD and its situation and lack of overall response should point to failures at government. You can start with the mayor and the governor, but ultimately, the president is responsible if nothing else, he hasn't come up with more than a cheerleader saying that the government will do something. Doesn't mean much when you look at the TV.

[Jemstone]

NO is a disaster zone, the problems with the looters and the resources avalible to manage it makes it a combat zone. The problem with the armed looters won't be stopped until the military intervenes and starts shooting back at the looters. But that is never going to happen. Many of the looters are African American. How will it look when a white National Guardsman shoots a black looter in the back while clutching a DVD player? Even if you had a gang of armed African Americans shooting at a bunch of elementary school children, once you starting shooting at African Americans, even justified, you know have a government sanctioned 'hate' crime on your hands. If you want a law enforcement perspective on the reality of shooting looters, thats it right there. So the reality is the National Guard will beef up the area, looters will stop and they will get away with what they have done. In the meantime civilians stuck there are on their own, just like in the OJ Simpson riots.

325446[/snapback]

Hate crime? Don't be a damned idiot. That would be self defense as nobody in his/her right mind would call that a "hate" crime with the chaos playing high definition on their screens. So If I popped a looter, would it suddenly be a "black on black crime" when I'm just looking to protect my own neck from the scum? Again, don't be a damned idiot.

[Mr March]

Edit

I was going to add to the discussion, before I read the fourth page. I think this thread is lock bait, so I'll not add anymore fuel to the fire.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Mr March