JetJockey Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/12/2017 at 0:32 PM, tepidarium said: Unfortunately, I don't have a stuck cel that I can sacrifice as an experiment. I can't subject this Misa cel to the freezer - I don't have enough experience to risk it. I think I will have to mist off the douga, which, in the past means destruction of the douga. JV & Fortress, I appreciate your advice. I wouldn't use the freezer method on a cel that old. In fact I probably wouldn't use the freezer method at all. Once I read about an animator I think simply using the moisture from the cool air night over a few days to help slowly separate sketches from cels. Also, I think preservation companies have a powder of some kind that they use. I wouldn't be surprised if they give cels some kind of dry bath to help with the vinegar problem. It would be odd if the douga was the source of the smell as it's the cel that's breaking down. I've never smelled vinegar off old comics or paper before. Perhaps the sketch absorbed the smell. I wouldn't frame it immediately either even though frames aren't air tight. Putting it in a frame, even with an acid free backer, without neutralizing the vinegar at least a bit seems like it could speed the degradation since the cel will be enclosed with the smell. I would probably use an acid free paper perhaps with a buffer and let the cel and sketch air out for a while. The buffer might help it. Then decide how much you really want the sketch. Since it's matching and Macross, I would think that the sketch alone would be worth a lot intact. So I wouldn't rush to get it off and damage it just yet. Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 Let us know what you decide tepidarium. Good luck. Quote
Legioss Posted January 17, 2017 Posted January 17, 2017 Microchamber paper, ventilation, and isolation for the vinegar syndrome and watch out for cel lines that have transferred from the cel to the sketch before you remove it so you know if it should be removed. Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 17, 2017 Posted January 17, 2017 @tepidarium Make time to scan your cels and artwork and display them in your RS gallery. This is a great way to view them more frequently without increasing the likelihood of damaging the artwork. I only take my cels out to conduct the inspections previously mentioned. Good luck! Quote
baronv Posted January 18, 2017 Author Posted January 18, 2017 So jealous that collectors are still finding Macross cels. I've pretty much stalled on cel collecting since the prime cels are just too hard to find these days and I don't have the fortitude to deal with Y!Japan anymore. I do check cel sellers at cons I go to but they're mainly American 80s cartoons. Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 @baronv Good to see you around! There aren't many cel dealers left carrying anime cels circa 70-80s, but, you are right what is offered tends to be American 80s animation. High end cels and artwork are still rare, but, some collectors do release their Macross cels, albeit infrequently. Still glad to see your collection is being shared on RS. Quote
jvmacross Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Wow... http://page24.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/q132311171 Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 1 minute ago, jvmacross said: Wow... http://page24.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/q132311171 Yup that hanken has been circling for a couple weeks now. Quote
jvmacross Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Even with the weak JPY...still pricey....I'd be tempted at half or less Seems legit....what do you think? Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) Looks fake. It is in well preserved condition with solid lines and vibrant colors, but it is also missing a lot of the original hanken image especially Millia's arms and Max's arm etc. If it was reasonably priced jvmacross, this fancel would make a nice pairing with your Misa and Hikaru wedding hanken. Speaking of which, did you ever determine why Misa's pearls and veil were missing? Edited January 19, 2017 by Fortress_Maximus Quote
jvmacross Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 No idea....to me the pic looks like the veil material and pearls are "real" as in an actual photograph of the veil material and actual pearls...not drawn....so as to be some sort of mixed media artwork.....if I ever meet Mikimoto I'll ask him! Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) Interesting theory! The veil actually does look like real fabric/material was used. This hanken mono was used for the magazine cover of the Animage December 1984 issue. Since it was used for advertising specifically and not in animation production, the pearls would not be animated to move. It is just my educated guess based on other hankens I've owned and researched, but I think the pearl necklace was probably airbrushed. In such cases the pearls typically are not secondary layers, meaning the layer would be the same as the primary face and body. Alas, we may never know, so Mikimoto-sensei might be the only person who can solve this mystery for us. Edited January 18, 2017 by Fortress_Maximus Quote
jvmacross Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Yep... You know...every time I see your avatar it reminds me that I need to post up some new Morinaga Chocolate kits that I recently acquired....the boxart used is artwork from Masami...like the one in your avatar...love those illustrations.....pure nostalgia! Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Indeed! Love the old school Masami artwork. Looking forward to your collection posts. Sounds cool and delicious! Btw, belated congrats on the Misa TV acquisition. Quote
DarkArchon3000 Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 That is a nice Hanken, but are there different versions of this artwork? The color of her dress and pattern on the veil don't match the Animage cover or poster. Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 29 minutes ago, DarkArchon3000 said: That is a nice Hanken, but are there different versions of this artwork? The color of her dress and pattern on the veil don't match the Animage cover or poster. Usually there are not different versions for hanken monos, but it is entirely possibly multiples were made for the Millia and Max wedding hanken. The artwork used for Animage May 1983 cover already had some traceline fading which is unusual. Worst case, the one listed in auction is an exceptionally well-made fan cel. Quote
jvmacross Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 This is the cover for the Animage portfolio..... Hanken on YJA.... Seems to be missing a bit off the bottom.... Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Yup missing a bit on the edges and bottom. Ok scratch my earlier comment jvmacross, I didn't recheck the full sized image you posted. I am pretty sure it is a fake now. The acetate size is completely wrong! Also, notice there are areas where the creases do not cast shadows? Then there's the missing reflection from Max's glasses, plus his missing cuffs, and of course Millia's right and left arms! Looks like we have another forgery group becoming active on YJP. Edited January 19, 2017 by Fortress_Maximus Quote
JetJockey Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 5 hours ago, baronv said: So jealous that collectors are still finding Macross cels. I've pretty much stalled on cel collecting since the prime cels are just too hard to find these days and I don't have the fortitude to deal with Y!Japan anymore. I do check cel sellers at cons I go to but they're mainly American 80s cartoons. What 80s American cels are you seeing at conventions? There could be some Japanese animated stuff mixed in. You never know. The good G.I. Joe series and a few others were animated in Japan. 4 hours ago, jvmacross said: Even with the weak JPY...still pricey....I'd be tempted at half or less Seems legit....what do you think? My first thought on that was fake. I thought that's why you guys didn't mention it here. It's been up for a while now. Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 As the saying goes, if it looks too good to be true.... This hanken forgery is a good reminder to always cross-check against source materials. Quote
tepidarium Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 On 1/17/2017 at 0:02 PM, Fortress_Maximus said: @tepidarium Make time to scan your cels and artwork and display them in your RS gallery. This is a great way to view them more frequently without increasing the likelihood of damaging the artwork. I only take my cels out to conduct the inspections previously mentioned. Good luck! I wanted to thank everyone who posted for their advice. Probably, I will keep the cel quarantined from the rest of the collection and will try to expose it to as much air as possible. After a good long while, I will reassess the condition and may choose to remove the douga in due course. Quote
tepidarium Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 On 1/18/2017 at 8:13 PM, Fortress_Maximus said: Yup missing a bit on the edges and bottom. Ok scratch my earlier comment jvmacross, I didn't recheck the full sized image you posted. I am pretty sure it is a fake now. The acetate size is completely wrong! Also, notice there are areas where the creases do not cast shadows? Then there's the missing reflection from Max's glasses, plus his missing cuffs, and of course Millia's right and left arms! Looks like we have another forgery group becoming active on YJP. This does look to be a fake, but could the missing reflection from Max's glasses be due to an effects layer that was separated from the rest? When I look at these pieces, I often find that the best places to compare are the wispy strands of hair and the creases in the clothing. I check the angles that they form with the negative space created around the lines to see if they match up. Though, I'm not sure if this is wholly reliable, as sometimes a real cel can have a poorly mastered derivative image created for online display. The counterfeiting is disconcerting, but something that is important to recognize. Remember those terrible fakes on YJ over the summer? I believe some are still up for auction on ebay... Quote
tepidarium Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 On 1/18/2017 at 3:47 PM, baronv said: So jealous that collectors are still finding Macross cels. I've pretty much stalled on cel collecting since the prime cels are just too hard to find these days and I don't have the fortitude to deal with Y!Japan anymore. I do check cel sellers at cons I go to but they're mainly American 80s cartoons. Finding quality examples is a needle in a haystack operation nowadays. But the promise of finding that one great shot (or forgery!) can still be realized...yes, this is when you know you've gone off the edge with cel collecting. Is the hunt worth it? Quote
jvmacross Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 19 hours ago, tepidarium said: Finding quality examples is a needle in a haystack operation nowadays. But the promise of finding that one great shot (or forgery!) can still be realized...yes, this is when you know you've gone off the edge with cel collecting. Is the hunt worth it? It's all about the hunt! Quote
jvmacross Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 On 1/18/2017 at 7:02 PM, jvmacross said: This is the cover for the Animage portfolio..... Hanken on YJA.... Seems to be missing a bit off the bottom.... So which colors are correct? Quote
JetJockey Posted January 22, 2017 Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) Let's try something a bit different. There are only a few of us here but all this talk of fakes and how to store cels got me thinking. I want to know the worst and best cel or sketch that you have ever seen. It doesn't have to be Macross. There is an Akira cel blog site that posted some damaged framed cels that I can't believe. And I just saw a Mospeada cel that made me post this idea. It's kind of sad that when I started collecting cels my only concern was finding cels of my favorite scenes. I didn't even think about condition. Apparently everyone doesn't protect their cels that well. Those framed Akira cels I mentioned look worse than this one of Rook. Actually this Rook cel isn't too bad and it sold this morning. I'm sure it could be restored somehow in the future. And for the best. It's not a cel but rather two pieces of art. One I saw on a gallery. The other I might have posted the price here before. Good and complete DYRL cels seem really difficult to come across. And as these are one of a kind it makes them really special. Edited January 22, 2017 by JetJockey Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 On 1/20/2017 at 3:11 PM, jvmacross said: It's all about the hunt! I concur! Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Another fake cel https://www.rinkya.com/en/auction-l377250348?dollar=part Quote
jvmacross Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 The seller seems to say it is not original in the listing. How about this one.... http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e209948371 Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) Depends on the translation software used some say it was production cel. Go figure. Saw that genga, even if authentic which is doubtful, it is excessively overpriced. For me the composition isn't worth the cost and it isn't even a sequence. What do you think? Edited January 25, 2017 by Fortress_Maximus Quote
jvmacross Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 I think it is legit. However, I agree, it is over-priced. I think if it was a straight auction with no reserve it would fetch 200-300 USD. Quote
tepidarium Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) On 1/23/2017 at 10:27 PM, Fortress_Maximus said: I concur! At this point, we're looking for the Loch Ness Monster unless some silent collectors release their treasures Edited January 28, 2017 by tepidarium Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/26/2017 at 3:04 PM, jvmacross said: I think it is legit. However, I agree, it is over-priced. I think if it was a straight auction with no reserve it would fetch 200-300 USD. I'd wager if it was an authentic hanken mono it would sale at a higher price. Quote
jvmacross Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 Hmmmm...I thought it was a rough draft of a DYRL genga....but it may of an image used for a hanken...which hanken were you thinking it may be from? Quote
Fortress_Maximus Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Possibly the attached image, but would need to compare to other scenes from TV and movie too. Quote
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