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Macross/Animation Cel Collection Thread

baronv

By baronv
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JetJockey Pineapple Eater

JetJockey

Posted
Posted

Which means he paid 1/3 or 1/4 the listing price..... :rolleyes:

I don't recall seeing that cel on YJ or Mandarake. It might be from their source. That's my thinking regarding a lot of their stuck cels. That these are from either collectors sitting on cels or their own old stock that they are now selling. I think the modern collector would have separated it from the pencil sketch long ago and either framed it or put it in a cel bag. So many of these stuck cels might just be coming up.

But I don't think that cel is worth $1500 stuck without matching background. I probably wouldn't pay more than $500. I need to see the scene again but I believe there are shots with Minmay's face more in frame too.

tepidarium ARMD Deck Swabber

tepidarium

Posted
Posted

I don't recall seeing that cel on YJ or Mandarake. It might be from their source. That's my thinking regarding a lot of their stuck cels. That these are from either collectors sitting on cels or their own old stock that they are now selling. I think the modern collector would have separated it from the pencil sketch long ago and either framed it or put it in a cel bag. So many of these stuck cels might just be coming up.

But I don't think that cel is worth $1500 stuck without matching background. I probably wouldn't pay more than $500. I need to see the scene again but I believe there are shots with Minmay's face more in frame too.

I think I recall seeing this cel being sold as a pair with another DYRL cel on YJ nearly half a year ago?

Fortress_Maximus New Edwards Test Pilot

Fortress_Maximus

Posted
Posted (edited)

Those are the ones. I couldn't remember the exact scene and they just looked odd.

Well not everyone checks both YJ and eBay. I guess they count on that. Also someone who just wants any Macross cel for their collection. I will say that my holding and looking for favorite scenes has made me miss a bunch that I can't believe. But I never followed those auctions to the end either. So who knows the price many of those ended up at.

There is a good Ghost in the Shell cel on eBay now for around $1000. I think they said the background is a copy though. I don't know how much you guys notice cels from other series. I post about a few here at times. You would think the older and I guess not that popular anime shows would be easier to find. I still haven't seen that many good Dirty Pair Project Eden cels. I don't think there are many people looking for that one.

Some dedicated cel collectors check as many sources as possible. In my experience, casual collectors encounter the most challenges staying in the cel collecting hobby because searching for cels isn't part of their lifestyle. Casually researching cels typically does not yield good results. It is all a matter of priorities.

I track approximately a dozen older series and characters. Speaking specifically about GITS and DP there are dedicated collectors worldwide, but you may not know them personally. There does not need to be dozens of collectors, just a few serious ones to keep older and more obscure series 'alive'. I personally know at least five collectors for GITS and DP, but you will never see them at cons or posting in threads like these. Some older series still have dedicated collectors such as: GUNNM, Berserk, Outlanders, Urusei Yatura, GunBuster, Voltes V, Iczer-1, Iria, Dangaioh, Tenchi Muyo, Escaflowne, Arslan, City Hunter, Kimagure Orange Road, Guyver, Nadia, Kenshin, Gunsmith Cats, Gundam 0080, 0083, Orguss 02, Video Girl Ai, Lodoss Wars, Daicon III & IV, and Mermaid's Forest, et al. Most of these are well over 20 years old however, there are still international collectors who will pay a premium. Premium 'A grade' cels and original artwork from those series infrequently surface and when they do the dedicated collectors tend to appear. Lastly, in my experience, if you have not noticed the buying trends fluctuate, odds are you might not be tracking the cel market, and/or collecting cels very long.

Edited by Fortress_Maximus
Fortress_Maximus New Edwards Test Pilot

Fortress_Maximus

Posted
Posted (edited)

I don't recall seeing that cel on YJ or Mandarake. It might be from their source. That's my thinking regarding a lot of their stuck cels. That these are from either collectors sitting on cels or their own old stock that they are now selling. I think the modern collector would have separated it from the pencil sketch long ago and either framed it or put it in a cel bag. So many of these stuck cels might just be coming up.

But I don't think that cel is worth $1500 stuck without matching background. I probably wouldn't pay more than $500. I need to see the scene again but I believe there are shots with Minmay's face more in frame too.

Actually, urbantreasurehunterjapan bought this cel from an online Japanese dealer. He does not have any industry connections so he obtains cels to flip from other collectors and re-sellers.

Edited by Fortress_Maximus
  • 3 weeks later...
tepidarium ARMD Deck Swabber

tepidarium

Posted
Posted

Some dedicated cel collectors check as many sources as possible. In my experience, casual collectors encounter the most challenges staying in the cel collecting hobby because searching for cels isn't part of their lifestyle. Casually researching cels typically does not yield good results. It is all a matter of priorities.

I track approximately a dozen older series and characters. Speaking specifically about GITS and DP there are dedicated collectors worldwide, but you may not know them personally. There does not need to be dozens of collectors, just a few serious ones to keep older and more obscure series 'alive'. I personally know at least five collectors for GITS and DP, but you will never see them at cons or posting in threads like these. Some older series still have dedicated collectors such as: GUNNM, Berserk, Outlanders, Urusei Yatura, GunBuster, Voltes V, Iczer-1, Iria, Dangaioh, Tenchi Muyo, Escaflowne, Arslan, City Hunter, Kimagure Orange Road, Guyver, Nadia, Kenshin, Gunsmith Cats, Gundam 0080, 0083, Orguss 02, Video Girl Ai, Lodoss Wars, Daicon III & IV, and Mermaid's Forest, et al. Most of these are well over 20 years old however, there are still international collectors who will pay a premium. Premium 'A grade' cels and original artwork from those series infrequently surface and when they do the dedicated collectors tend to appear. Lastly, in my experience, if you have not noticed the buying trends fluctuate, odds are you might not be tracking the cel market, and/or collecting cels very long.

This is a great post. Dedicated cel collecting becomes a "lifestyle." That can mean checking the handful of merchants out there, the auction sites, and friends/associates on a regular basis. Even with that, a "buy it now" ebay auction can come up out of no where like a great white shark and you'll miss it in the blink of an eye. Same thing goes if you're hesitant to pull the trigger on an auction. What an unforgiving hobby!

While the anime cel market itself is not what it was 20 years ago, I agree that the dedicated collectors are always out there for the prime "Grade A" cels.

What's that Misa? Do I have a problem with my arm? No. Why? ^_^

gallery_12176_600_59932.jpg

Great images of Claudia and Misa!

  • 4 weeks later...
jvmacross Hory Froating Head

jvmacross

Posted
Posted

Another cel from the same sequence....

http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g189382687

600x488-2016092500048.jpg

25% off!!!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MACROSS-TV-SERIES-ROBOTECH-BRUNO-J-GLOBAL-MISA-CLAUDIA-ANIME-PRODUCTION-CEL-/162244452243?hash=item25c685df93:g:nugAAOSwpLNYBlrs

originally sold for 4,100 JPY.....

http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g189382687

Wonder how many of these will be part of urban's ebay list? ;)

http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/s504151170

http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/l366229079

http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/225881613

http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/d206544669

  • 2 months later...
Legioss Skull Leader's Lackey

Legioss

Posted
Posted

Hey everyone, the last time I posted was on page 1, but I've bought these two Macross 7 cels since then and a lot more. My gallery is at http://marmalade.rubberslug.com. I love the expression on Mylene's face. Sivil is a side view, but I haven't found very many where she's smiling.

I also recently bought some more Mospeada cels and traded a Robotech II cel for cels from Aozora Shoujotai/Airbats and Southern Cross.

ciabosgxcw_o.jpg

isprbdebcg_o.jpg

tepidarium ARMD Deck Swabber

tepidarium

Posted
Posted
On 1/8/2017 at 4:18 PM, jvmacross said:

Thanks!

 

Have you added anything to your collection recently?

A little while back, I bought a Misa Hayase DYRL cel on YJ.  I didn't read the translation which said it had a vinegar smell :(  It's a nice cel, but it's in quarantine from the rest of the collection. Actually, I barely notice any smell at all, so I'm not sure how much to be concerned by this.

JetJockey Pineapple Eater

JetJockey

Posted
Posted
On 1/6/2017 at 7:24 AM, mokuji said:

Hello everybody,

Please find here my collection : http://mokuji.rubberslug.com/gallery/master_query.asp?SeriesID=36200

and my favorite joined.

You can follow me on facebook and twitter about animes & cartoons production cels :

https://www.facebook.com/cellulos/

https://www.facebook.com/186764731459810/photos/?tab=album&album_id=418883024914645

https://twitter.com/AnimeCartoonCel

 

 

qdlrdivekz_o.jpg

 

Cool arcade cel and site ideas. I'll watch your Twitter. I recall a French site I think that I stumbled across some time ago that noted a bunch of cel auctions.

 

13 hours ago, tepidarium said:

A little while back, I bought a Misa Hayase DYRL cel on YJ.  I didn't read the translation which said it had a vinegar smell :(  It's a nice cel, but it's in quarantine from the rest of the collection. Actually, I barely notice any smell at all, so I'm not sure how much to be concerned by this.

 

I would be concerned about a vinegar smell. Even the slightest vinegar smell as that's the warning of breakdown occurring. I was talking to someone who is more into comic, poster, and other item storage recently and he basically got me into the mentality that everything will breakdown. It's just a matter of storing it in the best possible way. The main thing seems to be neutralizing acidity for paper and stuff of that nature and consistent conditions. More and more I think about it, these cels sitting around in cel bags, stacked and enclosed with a bunch of other cels, sitting since purchase years ago with standard tape or stapled to sketches / backgrounds are a recipe for disaster. That acid migrates. I've seen it with my old comics and cheap poor grade boards from when I was young. Collectors / Sellers at least need to store this stuff right whatever they intend to do with it in the future.

 

I know I need to check my old Super 8 films too as that vinegar thing can happen to film.

tepidarium ARMD Deck Swabber

tepidarium

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, JetJockey said:

I would be concerned about a vinegar smell. Even the slightest vinegar smell as that's the warning of breakdown occurring. I was talking to someone who is more into comic, poster, and other item storage recently and he basically got me into the mentality that everything will breakdown. It's just a matter of storing it in the best possible way. The main thing seems to be neutralizing acidity for paper and stuff of that nature and consistent conditions. More and more I think about it, these cels sitting around in cel bags, stacked and enclosed with a bunch of other cels, sitting since purchase years ago with standard tape or stapled to sketches / backgrounds are a recipe for disaster. That acid migrates. I've seen it with my old comics and cheap poor grade boards from when I was young. Collectors / Sellers at least need to store this stuff right whatever they intend to do with it in the future.

 

I know I need to check my old Super 8 films too as that vinegar thing can happen to film.

Yeah. The thing is that I wouldn't have even noticed it if not told to look out for it. It is fairly faint. I've come to terms that all cels, by their nature, are volatile and degrading slowly (I guess you can say that about all matter - including the person typing this message :))  What is there to do but enjoy the artwork we have and take care of them the best care of it that we can?  

jvmacross Hory Froating Head

jvmacross

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, tepidarium said:

I've come to terms that all cels, by their nature, are volatile and degrading slowly (I guess you can say that about all matter - including the person typing this message :))  What is there to do but enjoy the artwork we have and take care of them the best care of it that we can?  

100% agree.  

And thanks to JetJockey....I am reminded that I have about 20 or so old home movies on Super-8 that I still need transferred to DVD.  I think I would be more upset if any of those became un-transferable compared to my cels disintegrating.....

 

Fortress_Maximus New Edwards Test Pilot

Fortress_Maximus

Posted
Posted

The faint smell typically caused by vinegar syndrome should not be taken lightly or ignored.  We've discussed cel and artwork preservation techniques in the past.  In my experience, I've employ a variety of cel preservation techniques with considerable success. I hope sharing our collective cel preservation and storage strategies can help other cel collectors too. Your mileage may vary.  Share your own tips!

* Inspection (3 months) - Visually inspect every three months the bags for warping and, smell the folders for possible odors (paint fumes), both indicate vinegar syndrome.
* Bagging (6 months) - Replace cel bags semi-annually and cut the corners, so fumes do not get trapped. Do not seal or tape bag shut. Every six months remove cels from the bags and allow to breathe overnight. Only do in a cool, dark room with no ambient lighting.
* Acid - Test using acid free backing card boards with archival quality MicroChamber paper. Experiment purchasing MicroChamber paper for more valuable cels and artwork.
* Separate - All dougas, gengas, settei, and backgrounds into individual bags and store in another Itoya folder.
* Storage (6 months) - Avoid stacking cel books to reduce paint cracking caused by pressure. Try hanging folders in a storage container by using file hanging folders. Avoid storing folders in fully enclosed containers unless routinely inspected; minimum is semi-annually. Or store in a cool closet using sturdy wooden hangers placed into the center and have a support shelf underneath. 
* Moisture (annually) -  Reduce moisture with silica packets and place in-between folders and in various corners of the storage unit. Make small packets using kitty litter or baking soda.

Lastly, all of these cel preservation strategies help, but in my experience none are full proof. Intangibles that affect the speed of deterioration include, how the cel was stored prior to purchase, the type of cel (TV vs OVA vs movie vs hanken mono), and the age.  Eventually the vast majority of production cels and even hanken monos will deteriorate. I feel we are merely temporary curators for these memorable creative works.  It makes sense to scan them carefully (view online not the originals), and preserve the artwork well initially, to help reduce deterioration.  Good luck!

tepidarium ARMD Deck Swabber

tepidarium

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Fortress_Maximus said:

The faint smell typically caused by vinegar syndrome should not be taken lightly or ignored.  We've discussed cel and artwork preservation techniques in the past.  In my experience, I've employ a variety of cel preservation techniques with considerable success. I hope sharing our collective cel preservation and storage strategies can help other cel collectors too. Your mileage may vary.  Share your own tips!

* Inspection (3 months) - Visually inspect every three months the bags for warping and, smell the folders for possible odors (paint fumes), both indicate vinegar syndrome.
* Bagging (6 months) - Replace cel bags semi-annually and cut the corners, so fumes do not get trapped. Do not seal or tape bag shut. Every six months remove cels from the bags and allow to breathe overnight. Only do in a cool, dark room with no ambient lighting.
* Acid - Test using acid free backing card boards with archival quality MicroChamber paper. Experiment purchasing MicroChamber paper for more valuable cels and artwork.
* Separate - All dougas, gengas, settei, and backgrounds into individual bags and store in another Itoya folder.
* Storage (6 months) - Avoid stacking cel books to reduce paint cracking caused by pressure. Try hanging folders in a storage container by using file hanging folders. Avoid storing folders in fully enclosed containers unless routinely inspected; minimum is semi-annually. Or store in a cool closet using sturdy wooden hangers placed into the center and have a support shelf underneath. 
* Moisture (annually) -  Reduce moisture with silica packets and place in-between folders and in various corners of the storage unit. Make small packets using kitty litter or baking soda.

Lastly, all of these cel preservation strategies help, but in my experience none are full proof. Intangibles that affect the speed of deterioration include, how the cel was stored prior to purchase, the type of cel (TV vs OVA vs movie vs hanken mono), and the age.  Eventually the vast majority of production cels and even hanken monos will deteriorate. I feel we are merely temporary curators for these memorable creative works.  It makes sense to scan them carefully (view online not the originals), and preserve the artwork well initially, to help reduce deterioration.  Good luck!

Thank you for this.  These are great strategies. Unfortunately, the douga is stuck to the cel. From my recollection, the paper had more of an odor than the cel itself if that makes sense.  I may be in for too much with this particular Misa cel.  But, then again, as you say, we are merely "temporary curators" for these ephemeral works. 

Fortress_Maximus New Edwards Test Pilot

Fortress_Maximus

Posted
Posted

In that case, you may wish to consider quarantining the artwork from the rest.  In my research and discussions with other collectors and dealers, some recommend completely isolating the artwork suffering from vinegar syndrome from other collections.  Have you tested using microchamber paper and mylars to see if the affected artwork improves?  In an absolute worst case you might want to sell it to avoid infecting as it were the rest of your collection.  And just in case, I recommend researching more about the freezer method for separating douga/genga from cels.  Good luck and let us know how things develop.

tepidarium ARMD Deck Swabber

tepidarium

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Fortress_Maximus said:

In that case, you may wish to consider quarantining the artwork from the rest.  In my research and discussions with other collectors and dealers, some recommend completely isolating the artwork suffering from vinegar syndrome from other collections.  Have you tested using microchamber paper and mylars to see if the affected artwork improves?  In an absolute worst case you might want to sell it to avoid infecting as it were the rest of your collection.  And just in case, I recommend researching more about the freezer method for separating douga/genga from cels.  Good luck and let us know how things develop.

Hi,

I've not yet tried  microchamber paper. I've been using polypropylene bags, not mylar.  I am contemplating removing the douga by way of a mist machine.  This has worked for other cels, but, unfortunately, has destroyed the douga in cases where the majority of the celluloid surface is covered by ink and thus stuck the drawing. If the douga was the main problem, it's destruction would be an acceptable trade-off, I think. To my mind, the misting method is preferable to the freezer method, as I've read that the freezer method can crack the paint (that is my recollection). 

In any case, have you heard of vinegar syndrome being confined to the douga? That would appear counter intuitive to me given the description of the causes of vinegar syndrome.  The smell is really faint (to my nose!) and I really think it is more pronounced or even wholly confined to the douga.

Fortress_Maximus New Edwards Test Pilot

Fortress_Maximus

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, tepidarium said:

Hi,

I've not yet tried  microchamber paper. I've been using polypropylene bags, not mylar.  I am contemplating removing the douga by way of a mist machine.  This has worked for other cels, but, unfortunately, has destroyed the douga in cases where the majority of the celluloid surface is covered by ink and thus stuck the drawing. If the douga was the main problem, it's destruction would be an acceptable trade-off, I think. To my mind, the misting method is preferable to the freezer method, as I've read that the freezer method can crack the paint (that is my recollection). 

In any case, have you heard of vinegar syndrome being confined to the douga? That would appear counter intuitive to me given the description of the causes of vinegar syndrome.  The smell is really faint (to my nose!) and I really think it is more pronounced or even wholly confined to the douga.

 


Mylars can help and they are often more durable too.  I've tried the misting and freezer methods both with success.  Yes freezing can crack the paint, but that is why it is essential to not overdo it.  You need to proactively watch it.  Test the technique on a low end cel or throw away if you can first before attempting on your DYRL cel.  The key thing to remember is whether or not you want to preserve the douga.  Deciding what is an acceptable loss is helpful. 

Vinegar syndrome can spread that is why quarantining your affected douga is important.  Since no one knows the storage conditions of the cel and douga prior to your purchase from YJP, it is safe to assume it may have been in contact with other cels that were also impacted with vinegar syndrome. 

Personally, I'd scan the cel and douga if possible and view it digitally instead of in-person which will only accelerate the vinegar process compounded with traceline fading and oxidation.  Good luck.

tepidarium ARMD Deck Swabber

tepidarium

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Fortress_Maximus said:


Mylars can help and they are often more durable too.  I've tried the misting and freezer methods both with success.  Yes freezing can crack the paint, but that is why it is essential to not overdo it.  You need to proactively watch it.  Test the technique on a low end cel or throw away if you can first before attempting on your DYRL cel.  The key thing to remember is whether or not you want to preserve the douga.  Deciding what is an acceptable loss is helpful. 

Vinegar syndrome can spread that is why quarantining your affected douga is important.  Since no one knows the storage conditions of the cel and douga prior to your purchase from YJP, it is safe to assume it may have been in contact with other cels that were also impacted with vinegar syndrome. 

Personally, I'd scan the cel and douga if possible and view it digitally instead of in-person which will only accelerate the vinegar process compounded with traceline fading and oxidation.  Good luck.

Unfortunately, I don't have a stuck cel that I can sacrifice as an experiment. I can't subject this Misa cel to the freezer - I don't have enough experience to risk it.  I think I will have to mist off the douga, which, in the past means destruction of the douga.  JV & Fortress, I appreciate your advice.   

jvmacross Hory Froating Head

jvmacross

Posted
Posted

Don't do it....just frame it and enjoy it.  Since there is no matching background it actually looks cool with the matching pencil sketch peeking behind it.

I assure you both the cel and stuck douga will outlast you in its current state! :rolleyes:

tepidarium ARMD Deck Swabber

tepidarium

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, jvmacross said:

Don't do it....just frame it and enjoy it.  Since there is no matching background it actually looks cool with the matching pencil sketch peeking behind it.

I assure you both the cel and stuck douga will outlast you in its current state! :rolleyes:

Ha :) you're probably right about the cel outlasting me.  I have so many I'd like to frame.  That's a whole other topic entirely.  I know you frame yours. The subject has always been somewhat obscure to me. I've heard of people suspending each layer so that it doesn't come in contact with the matte, with the background, or other layers.  How are you framing your cels, JV?

I'd love to get my "healthier" cels up on the wall, but the perceived expense, confusion, and concerns about conservation have stopped me.  So,the cels sit in my Itoyas and I don't look at them as much as I'd like....haven't scanned in my stuff in a long time.

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